Standard armor and weapons for both. Cyborg is online, Iron man is connected to Jarvis.
(Let me know what you think and why. Please no mudslinging at people with opposing ideas, as much as it pains me to say it comic characters are fiction so there's no reason to be uncivilized.)
More recent the Thor #3? Odin Force might give Thor a power upgrade but where is it ever said he's stronger or more durable...
He fought his grandfather Bor who was essentially a Skyfather:
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After he clashes with Bor he admits to himself that, "he strikes with the power of a god unleashed -- impossible -- if not for the Odin force I would be dead even now." This basically means that Odin Force Thor tanked a hit that would have one-shotted and killed standard Thor. So, yes. He's definitely upgraded to say the least.
I'm not suggesting you don't know what your posting but I'd like some of the comics these Scans are being taken from since context is need able. Count Nefaria is an energy absorber so his level in the scans could of changed, Sentry has been knocked down by She Hulk his level depends on his mind. So all the scans are put into question. If you could provide issues to where these are taken from I'd appreciate it.
I can't remember what issue or comic it's from, but I do know that his power levels were at his maximum.
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The first scan explains how he used his nephew to restore himself to his proper power levels. It then shows Nefaria smacking Iron Man around (who was damaged and low on power already which makes him look even better).
I could give you the Thor instance then I concede that it seems to be clear Odin-Force Thor has higher durability, I still however put into question Iron Man harming a character you suggest Thor and Hulk could not so I'll try to find the issue myself.
They can, but only when Count Nefaria isn't expecting it. If he's bracing himself he can essentially no-sell attacks from powerhouses.
Wonder Man is on par with Thor and Hulk in strength.
Either way, he's an Avengers team-buster.
Count Nefaria was a rookie when he fought the Avengers in that instance too. Once he started to understand how to use his powers and how powerful he really was, things changed:
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Regardless I still believe Blasting a cratee through a character that's taken on the 6/7 of the JL (Practically League busting) is more impressive then making a character go "agh"
When has he ever even done that? It sounds like absolutely terrible writing. If Doomsday is physically stronger than the entire JLA and he couldn't break out of this crate then that would mean Superman, Wonder Woman, etc. wouldn't be able to break it either. Yet, somehow Cyborg could? It makes no sense. He has no other feats to back up the fact that his blasting power is above any of their strength or overall power. If harming someone like Count Nefaria isn't impressive then I can show scans of Tony one-shotting Ulik, a Thor villain who was amped, three times:
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Look at how good he did against Thor:
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Now, remember, this guy was a villain capable of giving Thor a hard time even before the upgrade (from the High Evolutionary). Yet Tony one-shotted him several times within this story. Hell, Tony ends up tanking several hits from a mind-controlled Thor later on too. Cyborg is out of his league here.
The bracing ones self sounds pretty logical then. Shazam has been able to two shot an unexpected Superman. It wouldn't mean much though in terms of a Shazam vs Superman thread where both characters are expecting a fight.
Here is Wonder Man's striking power:
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Just by bracing himself, Count Nefaria was able to no-sell a punch that briefly one-shotted Thor and Wolverine. Iron Man was able to make this man scream out in pain with his repulsors. He's actually done it more than once, too:
Cyborg's two greatest feats with cannons to my knowledge would be taking down a door designed to hold Doomsday and Blasting a hole into Parasite who was no selling shots from the rest of the League
Based on the scans you showed me, that parasite wasn't no-selling Green Lantern's attacks. It was screaming out and grunting in pain just like when Cyborg did it.
This wouldn't make Cyborg physically stronger then Superman and Wonder Woman it just implies he has great tech that's held at a pretty high level.
That's not what I said. I said that that would put his blasters more powerful than the entire JLA's offensive capabilities and that it's inconsistent B.S.
In no way should Cyborg even be held at a low regard what's the basing on why he shouldn't be able to hang?
Because his cannons have never been that powerful. He's got like two inconsistent feats that put his blasters above herald level. Where were his oh-so-powerful blasters when they fought Darkseid and they were portrayed as tickling Uxas?
Again, Iron Man still has better durability. Even if we accept Cyborg's blasting power as above the JLA like you are implying, that still won't one-shot Tony, whereas Tony could easily one-shot Cyborg.
@ecstaticgrace: You want to ride and desperately hang on to feats that are inconsistent, that's fine. However, he's not going to one-shot or even tag Iron Man with those cannons whereas Tony can one-shot him effortlessly.
@ecstaticgrace: I see you are just picking and choosing what you want to respond to so I'll do the same. Show me durability feats that prove that Cyborg doesn't get one-shotted. You can't? That's what I thought.
Regeneration wouldn't count for much if he completely disintegrates him, magnetizes him, or EMP's him.
Even then if you look at his respect thread he has some pretty good stuff like tanking a blast from Power Ring, Tanking am Atlantean Proximity mine, Suit able to withstand the pressures of the Trench. According to Grail his technology is evolving and in the Superman Doomed event was stated to be one of the heavy hitters Braniac wanted taken out though I don't know the context to the last one..
None of that is really all that impressive. One-shotting characters that give Thor a hard time is proof that Cyborg gets one-shotted. Unless, of course, you want to try and tell me that Cyborg is more durable than Ulik?
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Yeah, Iron Man one-shotted an AMPED version of this guy, three times.
But no, I'm sure Cyborg can hang. He'd fare better against Thor than Ulik has.
To your tagging response I'm not sure about his speed but I feel confident he could hack Stark as much as some of you don't like hearing.
Cyborg has no speed feats, so he wouldn't be able to tag Stark and there is no way he's hacking Iron Man. The guy has resisted being hacked by Skrulls. Not to mention the fact that he's hacked Kree tech, Doom's tech, Reed's tech, Wakandan tech, the High Evolutionary's tech, and Sakaaran tech (while being inhibited by an obedience disk capable of restraining the Silver Surfer). Not seeing why Stark wouldn't hack him.
Call out to you, I wasn't sure but I believe Cyborg's metal is Prometheum as well?
Iron Man uses a mixture of durable materials in his suit. One of which is SKIN, which is essentially low grade adamantium. I doubt prometheum compares. Iron Man has blasted through durable metals before.
LOL I'm not suggesting Cyborg vs Thor at least anytime soon. But your attempts to suggest that Iron Man did this to a character Thor struggles with is entertaining cause go make a Thor vs Iron Man thread and post your suggestions to Stark beating this character without any context or issue references to provide.
Anytime soon... Lol... Listen, I never claimed that he's above or equal with Thor. He'd lose to Thor every time. Would he put up a decent fight? Yeah. Canon fights even support that claim. Thor could beat Ulik every time too, but that doesn't mean that Ulik can't also put up a decent fight either. I really don't see how I'm being so irrational here by making the comparison with Thor... Especially when canon supports me... I have at least 6 or 7 other feats where Iron Man has fodderized or done well against characters that Thor has struggled with. Also, very nice way of subtlely implying that my scans and arguments are dishonest just because I don't post unnecessary context or issue numbers. No, you're totally right. I just posted and cropped a bunch of scans of Iron Man hurting/knocking out characters that were severely depowered and failed to mention it. You caught me!
As far as compounds go I don't know much about Prometheum to comment on it but I know pure adamantium and mixtures of the component are way different in terms of durability. Your suggesting I'm grasping at feats but are playing stuff with the lack of providing context and questionable with issues not being brought up..
What difference will it make if I give you an issue number? Are you going to hunt down and purchase the comic that I was referencing in order to catch me in the act of 'being dishonest and misrepresenting scans'? Does my entire argument become invalid just because I don't reference the issue number? If that's the case then I wouldn't exactly say you are in the best shape either...
Cyborg interfacing Kryptonian/Oan (Similar)/ and 4th world tech. He's connected to an entire virtual dimension known as "The Grid"
I'm pretty sure that Kree, Skrulls, or the High Evolutionary have much better and more evolved and advanced technology than that. The Kree, for example, have created omega class weapons like a cosmic cube and Kree Nega Bands.
4th world tech is Mother boxes/Father boxes/ and Boom tubes I'm not suggesting that it's better cause I don't even know what a Nega Band is but I believe so take that as you will which I doubt it would hold much to you. A young Ultimate Reed created a cosmic cube that's not me suggesting it's not impressive or me downplaying Reed who both are on of my favorite characters I'm just questioning how grand the creation of one of is.
Point is, he's hacked super advanced civilizations that can create omega level weaponry. For a reference, Mjolnir is in the category of an omega level weapon. Creating an omega level weapon is extremely impressive. Also, Cosmic Cube's can control matter and energy. Anybody that can create that is extremely intelligent and advanced. The Kree are a more intelligent and evolved society than Apokolips.
"The Kree have mastered space travel and space colonization. The Kree also possess advanced warp-drive starships, cloaking technology, advanced energy based weaponry, advanced medical technology, genetic engineering, psionic technology, advanced robotic, cyborg, and cybernetic technology, and advanced communication technology. They also have the Omni-Wave Projector technology which can be used as a weapon and as a communication device enabling communication throughout hyperspace.More on Marvel.com": http://marvel.com/universe/Kree#ixzz401uECbOL
....On top of creating omega level weaponry.
I'm not suggesting Iron man can't put up a fight against Thor I just don't think his Repulsor blast are as impressive as your making them out to be
And why do you say that? I'm guessing it's because you are thinking of specific instances in which his repulsors weren't portrayed as being as impressive as his canon feats support. You have to consider the fact that, first of all, he rarely ever puts his repulsors on a lethal setting. Secondly, even when he has his repulsors on stun mode they are usually on an even lower setting than that when he's fighting friends or allies. If you want a good idea about how powerful his repulsors are, just examine the showings in which he's fighting villains:
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He's less likely to hold back against Graviton, Doom, or a Sentinel in comparison to Namor or Spider-Man, who are his friends and allies.
and I find it ridiculous that your suggesting Cyborg's feats are PIS when there's nothing to back that statement up.
Because I've been to Matchesmalone's Cyborg respect thread many times. He has like 2 good blasting feats. The rest are barely noteworthy. Most of his feats consist of blasting featless fodder or blowing up walls.
I'm not wanting issue references to attack you it's more about trying to find out for myself what's at play in these issues, the context so to speak. Cause hopefully I'll find something new.
Okay. So you want me to explain what is happening in my own words? That I can do. I honestly can't remember most of the issues or comic names or anything like that. Do you want me to explain what happened with Ulik? It's basically just how I described it. The High Evolutionary had this plan to assimilate Iron Man's liquid armor technology with the Asgardian Destroyer and then siphon off the power from multiple magical pantheons in order to create the perfect synthesis of technology and man. He wanted to create a new era of gods through Stark (against his will). In order to do that, he needed to hire some muscle. He hires Ulik and Crimson Dynamo and he adds some sort of upgrade to their power set (isn't specified what he did). Ulik and Diablo manage to get the drop on Thor and steal the Destroyer (that's what was happening in those scans I posted of the amped Ulik fighting Thor) and then the Crimson Dynamo ends up fighting Iron Man to a standstill until the High Evolutionary cheap-shots Stark and attaches inhibiting technology that prevents Stark from transforming into Iron Man (Stark ends up overriding this tech). After the High Evolutionary tells Tony his plans and Tony removes the inhibiting tech, he reactivates his armor and blasts Ulik from behind. This is the first time he gets briefly one-shotted. Ulik isn't out for very long though and after a couple of minutes he gets back up and lunges at Stark and once again gets one-shotted. Diablo ends up carrying him away. Eventually Diablo uses some kind of magic to make Stark and Thor get mind controlled to fight each other. Thor smacks Iron Man around and then, while they are busy fighting each other, Ulik and Dynamo cheap-shot Thor and Iron Man which results in both of them getting knocked out. When they wake up they find themselves attached to a machine that is draining their respective energies. They are too weak to escape, but luckily, since Diablo betrays the High Evolutionary and takes control of the Destroyer armor for himself, the High Evolutionary lets Iron Man and Thor out of the machine and on their way to stop Diablo they run into Ulik and Dynamo. Thor one-shots Dynamo and Iron Man one-shots Ulik. Storytime is over lol. If you want anymore context for any of the other scans I would be happy to give it to you.
Motherboxes are connected to the Source.. "Mother Boxes can access the energy of the Source for various effects; they can change the gravitational constant of an area, transfer energy from one place to another, sense danger, sense life, create force fields, rearrange molecular structure of matter, absorb or project powerful shock blasts, create electro-webs, control the mental state of a host, communicate telepathically with a host or other life form, manipulate the life-force of a host to sustain it past fatal injuries, open and close boom tubes, take over and control non-sentient machines, evolve non-sentient machines, merge sentient beings into a single more powerful being, sustain a life form in a hostile environment such as space, and do many other things. Mother Boxes have an affinity for the Source and are believed to draw their power from it. In that sense, they can be seen as a computer that links man to God."
I didn't know that the Motherboxes were so advanced. Interesting. So that is pretty impressive. Still, at best that just puts him on par with one of Tony's hacking feats (Kree). He's still got tons more. At best, Cyborg will stalemate Stark in hacking match (even though Tony's got more hacking feats and experience).
Yes I'm referring to the instances when repulsors haven't been all that impressive to me, ancient scans, and scans that just at most have characters going "agh"
Dude... Making characters grunt or scream out indicates pain. If he's harming characters with planetary or continent level durability, do you really think it isn't impressive...? Also, you have to take into account the fact that his repulsors get stronger with every upgrade. His strongest standard armor was his Bleeding-Edge suit. The 'ancient' scans are Tony using really old and obsolete armor. So if you see him one moment in his Extremis armor unable to KO Ulik with his repulsors one minute, but then seeing him successfully doing it in his upgraded and more powerful armor the next minute, it's because his repulsors get stronger as time goes on.
Cyborg was on a team book for the most part, got the chance to be streamlined in another team book and finally recently got his own. There's no evidence that those 2 feats are dismissable to PIS his cannons weren't ever portrayed as weak so there's also that, in Origins when he just began he was disintegrating Parademons we have early JL issues where it suggest he still didn't have control over Boom tubes so it's possible even then that he still didn't have control of himself.
If 99% of his blasting feats are of him just taking out fodder and being unable to even tickle Darkseid, it makes it kind of random when you then all of a sudden see him destroying a box that could hold in a character who is physically stronger than the JLA. Just saying. If you want to use it, that's fine. Go for it, but I'm just pointing out that based on the consistency of his other feats it's a bit random. It won't one-shot Tony anyway, so idc. Use it.
I'd honestly prefer the issue to read it for myself, no offense.
@noone301994: Hmm although Wonder Man is strong that is not his normal striking power there. That fight is from Avengers Annual 4 #1 IIRC. Simon Was in ionic form. His normal power levels aren't that high. He is a good fight for Grey Hulk without ionic.......
@lukespeedblitz: Do you have any evidence that Wonder Man becomes more powerful in his Ionic form? He seemed to have done the same in his fight against Thor here:
@noone301994: Hmm well considering without Ionic form he was barely matching Joe Fixit and being able to KO Rulk when in Ionic form in Avengers #31 there is a difference.
@lukespeedblitz: That was just once instance. And an inconsistent one at that. How about when he fought Gladiator, Hercules, Hyperion or Abomination? He wasn't in his Ionic form in any of those instances.
I read Ironman/Thor he did nothing to suggest he's on par with Thor. He knocked down Ulik who was turned around. The second time he blasted Ulik we see he didn't even go down he just said "agh"
It doesn't matter if he's turned around. It's not like his back is less durable than his front. Anyway, this is what we see Ulik doing after Stark blasts him the second time:
He has to be helped up by Diablo. I also like how you ignored the part when Stark KO's Ulik the third time:
The funny part about this is the fact that Stark no-sold a punch from Ulik, a guy who was thrashing around Thor and Baron Zemo, and then proceeded to one-shot him. We don't see Ulik up and about for the rest of the story after this third blast. These are good durability and repulsor feats. They heavily outweigh whatever Cyborg has. Stark one-shots Cyborg like he did to Ulik 3 times in this story.
Dynamo wasn't really a match for Thor, Ulik even comments on this
Dynamo still held his own. He was able to tank hits from and harm Thor. Again, ultimately losing isn't the point. Stark would ultimately lose too, but holding your own against someone like Thor is extremely impressive. Thor would literally no-sell blasts from Cyborg and then one-shot him with ease. You can't say the same thing about Iron Man or even the amped Crimson Dynamo.
And the villain was taken down by an amped Stark with Thor boosting him. Not that none of its not impressive it just doesn't suggest he can hang with Thor.
Stark couldn't properly absorb and siphon Thor's lightning the first time which means he tanked Thor's full powered lightning blast and was just "a little shaken" by it. Absolutely no damage to his suit at all. Then, when Iron Man properly absorbs and redirects the lightning he takes out Diablo in the freaking Destroyer armor who was stealing power from all of the godly pantheons to amp himself. Not only that, but the transmutated lightning transforms Thor back into Donald Blake. It most definitely is impressive. Much more so than you think.
The funny thing is that these feats aren't even the only ones that I have which put Iron Man near Thor. I just doubt you will want to read through 6 or 7 entire comics to see if I'm lying or not.
Yes it does matter if his back was turned around or not. We practically had this discussion earlier and you making the suggestion. If a character isn't expecting to be attacked there not braced for it. We can't say a tensed character is the same as a nonaware one. That's like saying Pre-Flashpoint Captain Marvel can 2 shot Superman because he did it to an unaware one.
Alright, fair enough. I still think it's somewhat impressive though. Being off guard doesn't automatically mean their durability level goes completely out of the window. I mean Wonder Man was only able to stagger Count Nefaria when he was caught off-guard.
He didn't KO Ulik the third time at most he knocked him down all the scan suggest is he was helped up.
I think you mean the second time and yeah he was clearly briefly knocked out because after Iron Man blasts him and launches him into the machines you don't see Ulik standing back up until 5 pages later. In all the time it takes for Crimson Dynamo and Thor to fight each other, all we see is Diablo helping him up after it cuts back to Iron Man and Ulik. The time gap in between Stark blasting him and Ulik getting helped up is WAY too long to suggest he just fell over. If he just 'knocked him down' then why did it take 5 pages for him to be helped up? Why, after five pages, didn't it just show Ulik back up and fighting again? Your attempts to lowball Iron Man's feats are sort of irrelevant either way. Even if you disregard all of my points here you still have to take into account the fact that Iron Man blasted and incapacitated Ulik. He had to be helped up and was too hurt/injured to stand back up on his own and continue the fight. Whether he was knocked out or not, that's impressive. Especially when the guy can tank hits from Thor.
Again, not sure why you are trying to nitpick these feats when, the third time that Iron Man blasts Ulik, he was clearly knocked out since we don't see him get up for the rest of the story.
The scan also doesn't look like Ulik hit Stark it looks like he avoided the hit.
Then what are these flashes of light coming out from Stark's armor after Ulik throws a punch?
Are those not sparks from hitting Iron Man's armor? If not, then what are they? Does he have some sort of flare emitters or something that I am unaware of? Please enlighten me.
I'll give Stark taking a couple shots from Thor and avoiding him but that's not really fight worthy in comparison to Thor
Considering Stark was undamaged and unharmed from those attacks, I'd say it's really impressive. Also, I'm not debating you on Thor, I'm debating you on Cyborg. All of this greatly outweighs what Victor can do.
Not being able to fully siphon Thor's lightning suggest he couldn't at first properly siphon it, it doesn't suggest he tanked full on lightning just that he couldn't siphon all of it at first. Even then he was still hurt by said lightning.
So, based on your interpretation, he managed to absorb a good portion of the lightning blast and then the small percentage that couldn't get in properly just hit him? I really don't see how there is any evidence of that based on the dialogue. His energy absorption messed up and he ended up tanking a lightning strike. That's what we get from the images and dialogue. It doesn't say anywhere how much of the lightning bolt was or wasn't absorbed.
I'll give him the Ulik hit cause I can't explain the sparks but Cyborg doesn't really need the durability he has regeneration.
If Stark one-shots and KO's Cyborg and sees that he's regenerating then he'll either trap him in a force-field (like he did to Apocalypse), disintegrate his entire body, EMP him, or use magnetism to freeze his joints so he can't move.
I also don't see anything with the blast being more impressive then the cannons.
The cannons made a durable being grunt and destroyed a holding cell that Doomsday couldn't break out of (even though I have yet to see a scan of that or given any context behind it), meanwhile Iron Man fodderized a guy (thrice) that has given Thor tons of trouble and has made Count Nefaria, someone with durability higher than Thor, scream out in pain. I'd say that Iron Man's feats are a little better, but again that really doesn't matter. Even if you can prove that Cyborg's blasting feats are better, Iron Man could tank a blast from Cyborg or dodge them while Cyborg can't take a hit from Stark.
The actual aware one shot came from Thor when he hammer hit Dynamo that's pretty much the only physical encounter he had where he was fighting back against Dynamo to one shot him and also again in the later image.
Dynamo isn't even relevant to anything I'm saying. You brought him up and said that, "Ulik claimed he didn't stand a chance" even though that wasn't relevant.
We know what there plan was and we know what they were attempting is there a time when Iron Man actually tanked a full on lightning Blast from Thor I recall you mentioning earlier how the scan was so impressive considering they were "weakened" which implies both of them ironically.
What are you talking about? Are you saying that Thor's lightning was weakened? If it was then it wouldn't have been powerful enough to later one-shot Diablo in the Destroyer armor.
This is all being mentioned you've been suggesting for the most part "Iron man has taken out this character whose done this to Thor"
And is there anything in that story that Iron Man did that Cyborg could do? Doubtful.
You'd have to show me what your suggesting Stark did that Victor couldnt.
One-shotting an amped Ulik three times, tanking multiple hits from a pissed mind-controlled Thor, tanking Thor's lightning, transmutating Thor's lightning, and disabling High Evolutionary's tech.
I brought up Dynamo cause I believe you did originally.
When I brought him up I only mentioned him when explaining context.
The fact is if Thor could of just used lightning to take care of Diablo why do the channeling thing with Iron Man it was a team up the whole comic focused on the combination of Magic and Science which is probably the reason it went that route.
The lightning alone wouldn't have been enough to take out the Destroyer. Iron Man's armor essentially amped and transformed the lightning into some sort of scientifically magical beam that could revert everybody back to their old selves (Iron Man's armor got knocked offline, Thor turned back into Donald Blake, Diablo got kicked out of the Destroyer).
The cannons didn't make a durable being go "agh" your confusing it with your mentions of Iron man blasting people and that being the only reaction he gets out of it.
Is this not the overhyped feat you were referring to?
Would you look at that? It seems that Cyborg is making a durable being go "AARGH" with his blasts and that seems to be the only reaction he gets out of it. Oh, the irony.
Victoria actually put a whole in a being tanking Lantern constructs. I already thought I explained the Doomsday context it was a cell Batman suggested was designed to hold Doomsday, Cyborg busted it down with his cannons..
No, you never explained it and does that mean that Doomsday was never actually held in this cell? Was it just some baseless statement that Batman made? Because that matters.
I'm not even thinking this is you lying about context, I'm thinking it's more your misunderstanding of it.
Right, just like I misunderstood everything that happened in Iron Man and Thor... Whatever you say man.
This has been fun it really has but you hold Ironman and his feats at a higher regard then what there shown to be in comics.
This coming from the guy that claims that Cyborg's blasting power is above the offensive output of all of the JLA...
There's a reason why if you make a Thor vs Ironman thread using comic versions it gets locked. There's a reason why Ironman has to don special armor to face Thor or Hulk it's because he's no match
Can you quote me on where I said standard Iron Man was a match for Hulk or Thor? All I said is that he'd take a couple of hits and hurt/stagger them before going down, but still lose every time. He'd put up a decent fight and canon backs me up on that.
those scans you bring up suggesting he one-shots characters that Thor is struggling with is taken out of context.
You read the story just like I did and we both know there was no context when Stark KO'd Ulik. The only thing that I probably should have mentioned was that he KO'd him for a very brief amount of time, but that really doesn't take all that much away from the feats in my opinion.
Also no Doomsday didn't appear in the comic we didn't see Doomsday struggle to break down the door all we know is it was designed to hold Doomsday and that Bizzaro (weaker version i believe) and Lex couldn't do it. It's a impressive feat to hype up Cyborg it doesn't suggest Doomsday couldn't break the door so take that as you will. But the scans youve provided are being overplayed
Right. That's what I thought. So this oh-so-powerful cell that Cyborg busted is featless. The truth comes out. You are being such a hypocrite by claiming that MY scans and feats are overplayed and out of context, you realize that right?
So not only do you take comic scans out of context you also do it with words.. Quote me where I said Cyborg's offensive power is above the rest of the JLA I won't hold my breath..
Lmao what is your deal, man? When did I ever take anything out of context or misinterpret a comic? You act like I'm purposefully being deceitful and that you caught me red-handed or something. That never happened and is absolutely not the case at all. I showed you scans, explained what happened, gave context, and even gave you time to read the comic to make sure what I said was accurate and what is your response? You essentially said, "Idc what happened in the comic. He's still not at Thor level and you are wanking Tony for saying so. He's not consistently portrayed at that level so everything you are claiming is invalid". Let's give him a round of applause for that one. Every feat that Stark has which puts him above Cyborg is just irrelevant because ecstaticgrace says so. Give the guy a medal.
Now, I can read in between the lines. If the cell could supposedly contain someone as powerful as Doomsday (someone that I'm pretty sure you claimed had more offensive power/strength than the JLA. I believe the term you used was "practically league busting") and Cyborg could easily bust through it, would that not put his offensive output above what the JLA is capable of? I'm just going off of what you were saying. If Doomsday is stronger than 6/7 JLA members and he couldn't break out of it, wouldn't that mean the JLA couldn't break out of it through brute force either? But you are claiming that Cyborg can. Even though, ironically, you failed to mention that the cell itself was actually featless.
No I can't quote where you suggested Ironman is a match for Thor and Hulk but I can quote where you put your suggestive innuendos about how this guy beat up or is on par with Thor and Ironman made him say "ugh" then one shotted him because we don't see him until 5 pages later.
And he says I am the twister of words... Give him another medal, but this time for hypocrisy. I didn't say, "herp derp tony shot ulik & den we dun see him till 5 pages l8er". What I actually said was that Ulik was still on his knees and struggling to get up several pages later AFTER Stark blasted him. At the VERY LEAST, he was incapacitated and unable to fight after Stark blasted him. At the most, he knocked him out and just woke up 5 pages later. But just ignore that because of your preconceived ideas about what you think about Iron Man. He's actually a street leveler that can't even hurt Namor with his repulsors. Whatever helps you sleep at night, man.
I never lied so there was no untruthful behavior on my part, but I'm sure you read it that way.
Oh right, never lied. Just like when you claimed standard Thor no sold Iron Man's repulsors, right? The irony behind your passive aggressive name calling is hilarious. Claiming that I post scans out of context and am deceitful or simple minded for misinterpreting scans. Take a look in the mirror, dude.
I've never suggested I caught you red-handed in a lie I believe it's you having problem comprehending scans. Yes your attempts to suggest Iron man KO'd a Thor level baddie is what I'm putting into play here, which at most is you taking a scan and playing it how you wanted.
Yes, fodderizing someone with one blast can totally be extremely misinterpreted. What a buffoon I am. What was I thinking? He didn't actually knock him out. I forgot to mention that Ulik has narcolepsy and he just falls asleep suddenly after Iron Man arrives and hits him. Thank God you are here to call me out and my stupidity.
YOU are the one that is having problems comprehending scans. How hard is it to see when someone gets blasted and then they limp away or struggle to stand that they got one-shotted and fodderized? You are trying to nitpick every little detail and then saying that I completely misinterpreted everything that happened in the story just because you are overanalyzing some insignificant detail that, quite frankly, makes you play it how YOU want it. You don't think Iron Man should be able to fight Thor villains so, of course, you are trying to nitpick his clashes with Ulik or if he had absorbed a portion of Thor's lightning or not to prove that preconceived notion that you have about Tony. Hypocrisy is such a funny thing.
Sure you showed me Ironman knocking down "Ulik" what you didn't was the fact Ulik was turned around walking off not expecting to be attacked at that moment.
He still bypassed his durability. You act like anybody who gets cheap-shotted or attacked from behind automatically has zero durability or chance of tanking it and that Tony's feat is automatically null and void. If that were the case then stuff like this wouldn't happen:
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Look. Sucker punch and blasts from behind. They weren't instantly KO'd. How about that? He hit Ulik from behind ONCE and it knocked him out. Granted, it's not AS impressive to one-shot someone from behind, but it is still impressive enough to mention it.
I'm just repeating myself and going in circles at this point...
Sure you mentioned Ironman tanking Thor's lightning what you failed to mention at that moment though you ironically brought up earlier is that they were weakened. I don't know how Stark's armor gets less durable but they were both being drained.
It wasn't significant or worth mentioning. As soon as they were released from the machine their power levels were clearly at normal levels, otherwise they wouldn't have been able to freaking one-shot Ulik and Crimson Dynamo after escaping or taking out Diablo in the freaking Destroyer... It literally had no significance or effect on their power level. Anyone with eyes can see that. I'm not misinterpreting anything.
You also failed to mention the comic suggested Diablo still had a weak spot and that the combination of Magic and Science was the key point into the comic and beating the bad guy.
It was never mentioned anywhere that he had a weakness to the combination of science and magic. And just because Iron Man's plan worked that doesn't prove that he did in fact have a 'weakness' to such an attack. All that happened there was Iron Man and Thor worked together to create a surge of energy that was so powerful and uncontrollably strong that it reverted everybody back to their alter ego's. Iron Man and Thor didn't even know if the plan was going to work. If it was such an obvious, well-known, and fool-proof weakness then I think they'd be a bit more confident.
I've never stated Cyborg's cannons are the JL's most powerful offensive weapon that's back to you misinterpreting what you read. What I stated is its been portrayed as one of them, and yes Parasite was beating up the League and tanking attacks Cyborg is still shown blasting a crater through him. That's more then we got from Stark.
Wtf...
"you idiot! You read my comment wrong! His cannons aren't above the JLA!! Oh, by the way did you know that Cyborg used his cannon to blast a hole through a character that not even the JLA could beat?"
Let that ^ sink in and then let me know who is the one misinterpreting and reading things incorrectly, bud.
If you want to make ridiculous claims like his cannons are above the JLA's offensive output, that's fine. Go for it. But that still wont be enough to defeat Stark before he annihilates Cyborg, so I really don't care anymore. Proving that his blasting power is better IS IRRELEVANT. Tony can EMP Victor, he can magnetize him, he can outspeed him, and one-shot him before Cyborg can even raise his "super powerful" cannon.
I said Thor no selled Iron man's repulsors mistake on my part I guess it doesn't change the fact that Namor has tanked them just fine and we have nothing but your "Stark doesn't harm friends..." excuse
Namor has only "tanked them fine" in a couple of poorly written stories/instances. They have fought at least 9 times and most of the time Stark's repulsors are able harm Namor without an issue. If you want to ignore consistency and just examine the minority of instances where Namor no-sells them, that's your business. On comic vine we go by consistency. Otherwise Spider-Man would be at Firelord's level.
Also, no. It's not a freaking 'excuse' that Stark doesn't blast at people with the full intensity and try to kill them every time he fights them. He's a freaking superhero with high morals. Do you really think he's going to try and blow off Namor's head whenever he fights him? Of course not. I really fail to see how that's a bad excuse. Not to mention the fact that his repulsors get stronger as time goes on... When you make the dumb and misinformed comment of saying, "herp derp namor nosold irun mans repulsors haha" it matters which suit he was using. The older they are, the weaker they are. If you want to see how Iron Man fights when he's barely holding back, fighting someone he doesn't like, and is pissed off then I'd urge you to take a gander at this scan of him fighting Graviton:
Look at that. His uni-beam, at only 73% intensity is emitting a heat of 10,073 Kelvin (which is 17,672 degrees Fahrenheit). If my math is correct, his uni-beam at 100% intensity would emit a heat of 22,443.44 degrees Fahrenheit. What is even more impressive about this feat is the fact that he's burning through a team-busters shields, but I won't get into that because you will just revert to your lowball tactics and accuse me of misinterpreting things. The point is, THIS is how powerful his beams are. They aren't some crappy beams that can only take down street levelers like you think.
But you know what? Maybe I'm just misinterpreting comics again. Iron Man was just shooting him with a light. He wasn't actually burning him and Graviton wasn't getting hurt. I just don't know how to read or interpret comics correctly because I'm such an idiot. Let's just ignore all of his showings against villains, people he wouldn't hold back as much on, and focus on his showings against his best friends:
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AHAHAHAHAHHAA LOOK AT THE NOOB! He can't even beat Spider-Man, Captain America, or Winter Soldier in one hit! HE SUCKS LEL!
Am I lowballing and nitpicking correctly yet? Give me some pointers, I'm new to this.
I don't recall name calling you but then again that could just be more reading what you want to see rather then what's there.. I don't think I'm being aggressive I'm honestly having fun :P
You posted a scan of Thanos already engaged in a battle while we're talking about a character who wasn't and had their back turned. Also Thanos is above almost everyone we've mentioned so far in this thread in terms of durability so it's a bit irrelevant bringing him up. I didn't suggest you automatically have no durability with your back turned that's honestly you misinterpreting what I'm saying to your benefit what I suggested was that not being braced for a fight your not ready for an attack which makes durability a bit lower then standard.
Key words: A BIT LOWER THAN STANDARD. You are trying to lowball and nitpick the hell out of that feat just because his back was turned. It's still impressive any way you slice it. Bypassing the durability of someone that can tank hits from Thor (who was even amped) is still impressive whether it was a cheap-shot or not. The funny thing is that that was just 1 of the 3 times he one-shotted him, but keep focusing on that one, bud. Just ignore the third time he one-shotted him with ease. Whatever helps your terrible strategy of lowballing.
Stark seemed pretty confident about the plan Thor didn't but yes the comic was about the merging of science and Magic to make a God for the 21st century before they encountered Diablo thru suggested he still had a weak spot and Stark amping Thor's lightning is what was used to take down Diablo it wasn't really just Stark or something even a fully well Stark would be capable of doing by himself.
That doesn't mean that that's a weakness. You are just overthinking it. I never claimed that it was "just Stark". Thor couldn't have done it alone and neither could Tony.
I'll re-look at the scans for the Namor instance but you need to come up with a better argument for Ironman's repulsors if you plan on that being taken serious.
Lmao you are a joke, man. I've posted so many scans that prove his repulsors are more than capable of one-shotting Cyborg and you just shrug them to the side and claim they are useless based on nothing. Then you ignore evidence and arguments and pick and choose which you want to respond to. Once again, Iron Man and Namor have fought each other 9 times and a majority of the time his repulsors are capable of harming Namor. Idk why I'm even arguing this aspect of it though because Namor's durability is WAY higher than Cyborg's anyway. Even if you somehow miraculously prove that Namor's durability is too high for Iron Man's repulsors, that doesn't matter.
Other then Ulik was shown being helped up the next page over.
Wtf is wrong with you? Am I being trolled right now? He incapacitated Ulik 3 times. That's impressive enough to one-shot Cyborg who has durability WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY below Ulik. I'm not going to bother posting more scans because you are just going to lowball or ignore them because apparently you are the interpreting expert and whatever you say, goes. Can't argue with a brick wall.
Using ancient scans doesnt help much either cause characters like Namor have fought Hulk and Thor it doesnt suggest they hold up.
I haven't just posted ancient scans, you dolt. Just because a scan is old that doesn't mean it's freaking useless. What kind of attitude about comics is that? Marvel never rebooted, so I don't see why you are trying to say that any scan that is taken from a certain year is irrelevant. That's the laziest and most pathetic cop out I have ever heard. Modern scans can be just as bad and ridiculous as some older ones. At the end of the day it is about CONSISTENCY. Should I link the definition to the word? You don't seem to understand the concept.
I don't think you understand that it doesn't help your argument that Stark struggles with Cap and Spidey so I don't see why you brought that up :P
I was being sarcastic... I was showing that he clearly holds back TREMENDOUSLY when fighting his best friends. And he says that I can't read words properly... Lmao do you even read my responses or do you just skim through and respond to what you want to? I find it so funny that you are guilty of every single thing you have accused me of.
@noone301994: Hmm Joe isn't as weak as you might assume. If anything him stunning Thor in one blow is pretty inconsistent...considering in their previous fights he's only knocked him down...
As for when he fought Gladiator..he was punched into the planet very quickly. Hercules has hurt him quite a bit when he was going all out, and classic abomination isn't as impressive as his more recent ongoing's. Simon's normal striking feats aren't enough to put Thor down in one hit. He's powerful but not that kind of powerful.
I honestly recently started skimming your responses
Do you understand the irony and hilarity in you accusing me of misinterpreting and reading words wrong?
I'm not nitpicking your comparing Cyclops Optic blasting Thanos to Iron Man blasting Ulik it'd a bit silly if not stupid.
You skimmed through my response so you clearly didn't read what I was proving by showing that. Why don't you re-read it, bud? I'll wait.
You hold Stark and his feat in a higher regard then what there shown in the comics. You take scans and read them as you'd like them to be shown and you suggest I'm nitpicking this seems to be oblivious to everyone but you in the thread.
Shown in which comics??!? You have yet to even provide ANY examples of what "there shown in the comics", so that's fail #1. Onto fail #2, I never once took a scan and picked it how I wanted it. He knocked out someone that can tank hits from Thor and you are trying to discredit it by saying, "his back was turned!" or "just because Ulik was on his knees struggling to get up 5 pages after getting blasted that doesn't mean it is impressive!" or "I'm just going to ignore the third time Stark one-shotted Ulik because it doesn't fit my argument." But you know what? You are totally right. That totally isn't nitpicking and everybody here clearly knows that I'm in the wrong here and the almighty and omniscient ecstaticgrace with his humble 1477 posts knows more than me. Whatever helps you sleep at night.
EDIT: Seeing as how you edited your comment. Allow me to respond to your bullsh!t.
It's honestly hilarious that I apparently called you an "idiot" while you repeatedly refer me to as a dolt because you can't provide a case other then "ugh"
You were implying that I was simple minded because I couldn't read or interpret any comic books correctly (even though ironically you were proven to have incorrectly done that more than you ever proved I did). You are a dolt because you keep ignoring what I'm saying and repeating yourself over and over. Once again, making a super durable character grunt in pain is impressive. Count Nefaria would no-sell Cyborg's blasts with extreme ease and wouldn't even so much as whimper. Maybe he'd laugh. Also, I proved that Iron Man was able to knock out and incapacitate Ulik, so idk why you are trying to claim that the best he did was make durable characters go "ugh". But whatever floats your boat I guess. Ignorance is bliss.
I addressed Cyborg's durability with his regeneration but I'm sure that slid your mind.
Regeneration can easily be countered and I already did. You just ignored my response. EMP's, magnetism, trapping him in a force-field, or vaporizing his entire body would all incapacitate Cyborg and his regeneration with ease.
This has been fun but your getting a bit to aggressive so I'm simply done. To be honest I'm done.
True, but he should still be out of Wonder Man's league. Even Iron Man's. Look at how Tony fared against him here:
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If anything him stunning Thor in one blow is pretty inconsistent...considering in their previous fights he's only knocked him down... As for when he fought Gladiator..he was punched into the planet very quickly. Hercules has hurt him quite a bit when he was going all out, and classic abomination isn't as impressive as his more recent ongoing's. Simon's normal striking feats aren't enough to put Thor down in one hit. He's powerful but not that kind of powerful.
Those feats still back up the fact that he is powerful without his ionic form and that Count Nefaria no-selling one of his punches is impressive. Is there even any proof that his ionic form is stronger than his normal form? Has it ever been stated? If it has I'll concede, but I still think that he's powerful enough even without being in his ionic form.
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