(CW) Spartan vs (Netflix) Nobu

SPARTAN:

• Custom Trick Pistol
• Escrima Stick
• Spartan armor and helmet

NOBU:

• Bo Shuriken
• Kyoketsu-shoge
• Red ninja outfit

BATTLEFIELD:

The Hand is accepting a shipment of contraband at the port of Star City, when Team Arrow suddenly busts up the party. As they split up, John finds himself alone at the edge of the water, confronted by the red ninja standing 20 feet away.

Who wins?

Don't see why this isn't a stomp

Nobu is likely a more agile and refined martial artist than Spartan.

Nobu has never faced a marksman nor anybody with gun-kata ability similar to Spartan.

They both have good stealth.

@nickzambuto: fair enough, I just find it hard to believe diggle can win a battle on here seeing as he regularly gets treated as fodder to any names character

He does well vs Fodder but every time an established character comes across him e always loses hard

Nobu's skill, agility and speed are significantly above what i've seen Spartan pull off. There isn't a huge difference in strength and durability, unless this is resurrected Nobu, in which case there's a big physical gap and it's a very unfair fight. Spartan can probably keep up with Nobu long enough to get some shots off, but it's very doubtful he'd get the head-shot he needs to guarantee a win here.

• Gets the better of Sara in sparring
• Held off Ravager singlehandedly
• Held off Brick longer than Wildcat did
• Oneshotted Anarky
• Beat up Andy
• Only member of Team Arrow able to keep up with Oliver

Diggle isn't a top tier martial artist but he gets treated with respect more often than not, I can't think of a single instance of him outright being fodderized. He always holds his own, even against the highest of the high tiers like Al Sah-Him, Diggle holds his own.

As Spartan, he's a deadly gunfighter with superior tactics and equipment to Nobu. He tranqed Nyssa with her being unable to react to his draw at all, despite Nyssa having similar reflexes to Nobu and Daredevil.

I'm a fan of Diggle and think he's sometimes underrated. That being said, pretty sure Nobu wins this. I still need to finish S2 of Daredevil (haven't gotten around to it), but from what I've seen Nobu's as good as or better than Daredevil, which is a bit above Diggle's level. He can give him a very difficult fight with a gun, and will certainly take some wins, but I don't think he'll take a majority if Nobu plays it smart. If Nobu's dumb enough to just charge at Diggle or something, Diggle shoots him

So what is Nobu's alternative? Stealth?

Stealth, or at least making use of cover while keeping Diggle off balance with his weapon. He's faster/more agile than Diggle, and has better stealth feats (sneaking up on Daredevil's better than anything I can think of for Diggle), as long as he makes use of those advantages he can take a majority

Nobu takes this 9/10 Times.

@arcus1: Nobu merely slowed his heart so Daredevil wouldn't hear it. If, in addition to that, he was actually able to walk up and approach Daredevil without being heard, THAT would be impressive. But he didn't do that, and while Diggle certainly doesn't know how to slow his heart like Nobu can, the ability to meditate and sit in waiting won't be helpful in a fight. Diggle has actually been able to walk up and sneak attack Oliver Queen without being detected, knocking him out with one of his own tranquilizers. As Spartan, he can easily replicate that and potentially win against Nobu, unless Nobu has radically stronger awareness than the Arrow. I can remember no stealth feats from Nobu that involved actual... well, movement, let alone combat.

Now, I dunno a lot about Nobu, but I'm leaving something for Diggle here.

Do we have any aim dodging feats from Nobu or any other Hand ninja? I've seen all the episodes but don't remember seeing how they'd react to an up close shooter.

iirc Nobu was able to walk in on Daredevil without being heard. DD could barely track fodder Hand ninjas without their weapons at first.

When did Diggle sneak up on Ollie?

Diggle shoots him. I don't see why Nobu can't stomp in close range

I don't think Diggle can just shoot Nobu. People to many times look at things from the perspective if a character has never been in a certain situation that means there incapable of overcoming that exact situation in the forums. What people don't get is this is a fallacy called appeal to ignorance. Just because Nobu hasn't faced a marksman of Diggle's level or even dodged bullets or any range projectile doesn't mean he is automatically incapable of doing so. Nobu was seemingly as fast and agile as Matt was, he just doesn't have the radar sense. Diggle is accurate enough to gun down league ninjas but I think Nobu is more skilled than random league ninjas. His fighting style revolves around dexterity and agility much more than Diggle's. I don't recall Diggle ever really displaying much in terms of agility, he usually relies on a brawny fighting style. Likewise even in season one Diggle was dispatched by a flachette from Malcolm so I don't think he can really counter Nobu's Bo shurikans or the chain blade thingy. You can argue Malcolm is more accurate than Nobu by feats but I think it does display Diggle's lack of agility in comparison to other fighters in arrow. And while Nobu doesn't have any combat stealth feats considering lower ranking hand ninjas were sneaking up on Matt before Stick's advice I think its reasonable to say Nobu has Diggle out classed in stealth.

I give Nobu a majority. Diggle is underrated but he isn't a top tier fighter in arrow or even really a high tier fighter. I think Nobu would be a high tier character in the arrowverse.

@nickzambuto: Well if we use power scaling, then Nobu's abilities >>>>>>> fodder Hand ninjas' abilities. The Hand were so good at stealth that they could literally move in and engage Daredevil in H2H combat without him hearing them (like they are RIGHT NEXT TO HIM throwing punches and kicks and he is completely unaware of where they are, aside from feeling when they hit him). He had to listen to their breath (advice from Stick) in order to detect them. That is an absurd level of stealth.

And when did Diggle do that (sneaking up on Oliver)? In a comic?

As for the fight, Nobu would probably stomp if it came down to CQC, but Diggle has a gun so...still think Nobu wins but he would have to make good use of his cover and find some way to close the distance. Though Diggle doesn't have many or any reaction feats so if Nobu was able to throw some of his shurikens that could slow Diggle from shooting or outright kill him if they hit in the right spots.

Nobu stomps, even if they start in range.

First I don't think it's likely that Diggle can even hit Nobu with a handgun, Matt even in season 1 have dodge automatic fire in close proximity on more than one occasions, and all points to Nobu better than Matt(atleast in season 1).

Also Nobu have superhuman durability(survive falling 4 stories face down), he can take a few bullets and be unaffected

Couple with Nobu's stealh, and Diggle lacking feats of shooting high tier fighters, and Nobu's weapon range as well as his shurikens Diggle really struggle to find anything that can compete with Nobu.

Forget everything I said. I just checked the scene and Oliver actually was aware of Diggle's presence. Diggle did not sneak up on him. I was wrong.

Nobu himself was not a foot soldier. He explicitly did not possess the same ability as the other Hand ninja to hide themselves from Daredevil, Daredevil never had trouble detecting him when they fought. Just because they are of the same organization doesn't mean we can power scale Nobu to the other ninjas, perhaps if this glaring inconsistency did not exist we could, but the fact remains... it does.

Blame it on Nobu's fighting style. He's a warrior with a lot of pride, so the silent way of his brethren just wasn't his style, evidently.

If Oliver doesn't even stomp John in close range why would Nobu suddenly do it?

This battle honestly has very little to do with their individual fighting ability, and whole lot to do with one of the combatants having guns and armor.

@nickzambuto: Well just because Nobu "doesn't" do it doesn't mean that he "can't" do it. He already demonstrated that he can hide himself from Daredevil's senses, he just wanted to fight him straight up rather than kill him by stealthing him (he even outright stated that Daredevil deserved a warrior's death - aka not being stealth killed).

Most of this is besides the point, though, because Diggle doesn't have Matt's superhuman senses, but he does have the ability to actually see. The gun and the armor give him a pretty significant gear advantage and he is actually capable with a gun, unlike most gun-wielding fodder in either show. If Diggle doesn't shoot him right at the beginning, I have no doubt that Nobu could find cover and close the distance turning this into a CQC fight, in which Nobu wins 10/10 times. Or the fight ends with Nobu getting shot and killed. I find the former a bit more plausible a scenario.

Nobu for the majority.

Diggle shoot's Nobu. Its really that simple.

@nickzambuto: When did Oliver ever fight Diggle seriously?

@highaccuser: He tried to kill him as Al Sah-Him.

Recently Oliver solo'd the entire Team Arrow in a sparring match in seconds, until it was just him and Diggle, and Diggle was the only one able to keep up a little bit.

This could be interesting.

I don't believe he fought seriously or with the intent to kill. That would make Diggle at least as skilled as Merlyn as well which you can imply if you want but you have to realize it would prove Arrow has no consistent internal hierarchy and isn't meant to be something analyzed like that.

All that does is make him more skilled than Thea and Laurel but even then he barely lasted and sparring matches aren't indicative of serious combat.

The Oliver who fought Diggle is not the Oliver who fought Malcolm. Oliver only surpassed Ra's when he started fighting to live instead of to die, as Felicity motivated him. Before that, on the plane, Ra's still floored Oliver relatively quickly and then had enough spare time to fodderize Nyssa before escaping. When they fought on the bridge, Oliver performed much better and Ra's outright acknowledged his sudden change.

So Diggle performing better does not necessarily make him better than Malcolm. When Oliver stomped Malcolm, he was in a superior mindset, and significantly more experienced from killing Ra's himself, then fighting HIVE and Damian Darhk for half a season. The Oliver who Diggle fought would be better than Oliver from before his training with Ra's, but not as good as he was when settling his grudge match with Merlyn. Diggle should be Slade-tier by this point so I see nothing wrong with him holding off Al Sah-Him for a few minutes.

Arrow is becoming DBZ in terms of trying to find a power level for fighters and such.

Diggle wins because of his gun. In H2H though it's a close fight.

This is a joke Nobu stomps

Bump for current Diggle.

nobu curbs. He's so beyond diggle in terms of skill and agility, it's actually sad. Only thing dig has here is strength. Pretty sure nobu could predict where the bullets will go and wait for dig to run out of rounds, then go in for the kill.

Nobu.

Nobu gets shot.

Diggle ain't that bad.

I think Diggle can win, it won't be easy. But He's done a lot.

Nobu