Flash steals his speed so he cant move and superman wonder woman and GL wail on his face. Then arthur does what he does. Unless batman and vic invent something in that one day or are on the outside giving tips they are kind of useless.
Could Gorr solo the Justice League?
I'll start with this - because this is the most important part of the post:
I...really don't think it was. And I'm pretty sure the next one won't be either.
I get you're going for a more antagonistic style of response here - but the fact you're responding kinda kills any opinion where you don't think its worth reading - because you're reading it regardless. Saying otherwise just doesn't make any sense. The whole 'someone is wrong on the internet - I have to tell them they're wrong!' mentality may be compelling you to do otherwise, but if you don't want to read them or make a response to them don't. No one will hold it against you and I certainly won't proclaim 'victory!' - I'll just go back to doing other things.
Either-way short of something more compelling I doubt you're going to have much more luck convincing me on some of these more abstract points.
@buckshot said:
The question becomes - what's different here than before? Gorr's doing what he has been doing since their first encounter - easily carving up Thor with his weapon - Thor on the other hand is sporting the hammer said to shatter worlds like pebbles and he's smashing it as hard as he can into Gorr or better yet the Necrosword incarnate.
Gorr is doing what he's been doing before...but doing it with thousands of gods powering him now. I'm not sure why you're so ready to gloss over that difference if you're really so confident in your position that regardless of his power, its the action he takes with it that's important. Yes, Mjolnir is said to shatter worlds...the Annihiliblade is said to slice them. You're hanging onto this shockwave thing for the hammer as if nothing else that's moved through the air moves molecules in its wake. Yes, the effects are more obvious with a blunt object but it still happens with anything else, and that would include a blade and stabbing and slashing motions.
All that god-blood went straight into his weapon's construct: The serpent that kept Old King Thor busy as his present incarnation was smacking away at Gorr. I have no issue believing that invisible connection between Gorr and his constructs allows him to get an amp of power - given that he beats all three Thor's after the lack-luster start with Old King Thor who nearly one-shots him with lightning - but let's not go over-board with hyping Gorr's amp at the time. My take still remains Gorr doesn't need to be dramatically more powerful to cut Thor with his weapon and largely what made Gorr such a power-house in the future were his endless constructs (which was why King Thor even lost to him initially for nine centuries) / prep / plenty god-blood to back him.
Gorr's world is a life-less rock short of the god's on it or whatever beings he constructed from his weapon. That's the reason given and that's the reason I'm sticking with.
Your reason ignores the portrayal of the characters and additional information provided, but sure, stick with it. You say I'm reading too much into it, but I was just reading what's on the page.
It's not my reason - its Aaron's reason. That's what the characters attributed it to and I really don't see why I should take it further than the gods did. I have no doubt you're reading the same dialogue - but your searching for an answer that is already provided by the characters. There just isn't much of a concrete reason to go past it and try to read it as 'Thor's humiliation at the hands of Gorr gimped his mastery over lightning.'
That's not what I'm saying - but as far as the context given that god-flesh cage stopped the weapons from responding to either Thor's commands to return to them. As for how that worked the details remained light. But we have seen a few instances where Gorr's Necrosword has direct interaction with Mjolnir and completely fail to do anything to those enchantments: And here you show Berserkers not lifting up the hammer and getting hit with the hammer and the hammers being able to fly on the planet.
None of your examples show Gorr directing his weapon to prevent the hammers from flying. Picking a hammer up and counteracting its fundamental enchantment is entirely different than stopping it from responding to Thor. Being hit with the hammer when it swings....simply means nothing at all. And I'm not going to even get into the planet thing beyond saying that that scene happened...after part of the necrosword turned against Gorr. Also you're suggesting that should it be that its the necrosword that stops the hammers from flying, they should be able to counteract anything the hammer does. Turning that logic around, if its the godflesh that stops the hammers from flying, then any god should be able to counteract anything the hammer does. Do you see why that's a silly game to play?
In every example provided Gorr's weapon has direct interaction with Mjolnir - containing it in some fashion or trying to directly over-power its enchantments (or being entirely ignored as it pummels into it). Unless you mean Gorr has to focus his mind on it to accomplish the negation of those hammer's abilities. The Necrosword didn't turn against Gorr - Gorr turned against Gorr - he elaborates earlier on how his connection to his constructs worked:
Implying to an extent that those constructs can still be motivated to act on Gorr's subconscious (in this case - his rejection of what he became - referenced 4 times in the narrative). Then later Old King Thor elaborated:
Its not about a game - its about how this implication of an invisible power that Gorr's weapon had to negate Mjolnir's enchantments (in this case returning to Thor's hand on command - which in the first example it failed to do). That or at least a power to negate these hammers by enveloping them (which in three cases it did not). If his construct had an invisible method of controlling the hammers or negating them it wasn't entirely elaborated on or revealed. Godflesh in the other case - surrounding said hammers - does. It's a poorly explained plot device - but a plot device nontheless.
I'm pretty sure I didn't say anything about sending the vibrations through time
This is what you said:
For Thor on the other hand we've seen two Mjolnir's clash to send vibrations through the cosmos and in the Godbomb arc he performs a similar feat by absorbing the bomb into himself as he smacks to Mjolnirs together reversing the effects of a transdimensional, transtemporal bomb universal in scale. It's clear through this arc the effect Mjolnir can have on the cosmos goes well past beyond planetary and it's a hell of a lot better argument as to why we should give credit to Thor over Gorr in that encounter.
Seems to cover the cosmos and what you're referring to happened through time. I said you credited the hammers with effects all through time and space. Space is explicitly covered and time is implied in your post.
When I said cosmos - I meant cosmos. Both showings deal with Mjolnir's interaction with another Mjolnir being universal in scope. Gorr's bomb was a transdimensional, transtemporal and universal in scale bomb - it was intended to kill all gods throughout creation - past, present and future regardless of where they where. Any temporal aspect of this situation has to do with temporal god-blood concentrated in the bomb.
Given the Mjolnirs were seemingly being torn apart by the process a not entirely easy job for them, but in effect they seemed to overpower the Necrosword or at least Gorr's control over it. If anything given that All-Black was in every god in creation at the time killing them - it was recieving one hell of a power-boost - so its an even better feat for the Mjolnirs.
And I already responded to that line of thinking in my previous post because I figured you'd go that way:
(And Thor being able to absorb and use something meant to be used by a god, and I'll add, that had already turned on its owner, doesn't mean the Necrosword is less powerful.)
The Necrosword going to its "rightful" owner doesn't mean it's less powerful than the hammers. It was going to where it belonged, that's all. How you imagine that two hammers needing to be used, and both of them breaking apart by being involved in this, makes them more powerful, is beyond me.
Except Thor isn't the Necrosword's rightful owner and said weapon had no issues being used by Gorr for centuries to butcher thousands of gods. Thor had to directly absorb it through said the Mjolnirs into himself - the process removing Gorr's weapon from him by force(a process made very apparent in the actual book with Thor drawing it into him). It being intended to be wielded by gods or Thor's understanding of it's history upon taking it into himself might be a good argument for that assumption your making, but...
It wasn't because Thor is a god that he was able to take the Necrosword into him it was because of two Odin-enchanted hammers being used in unison. I've already expressed it wasn't an easy showing for the Mjolnirs given the stress put on the hammers, but that's due to how colossal the showing was as theyre taking on a bomb that's been in the works for nine-centuries as it explodes throughout 'everything' in the Marvel universe.
But at the end of the day the Mjolnirs win over the Necrosword - wrestling it from Gorr and absorbing the entirety of a bomb exploding through creation into Thor.
While he did become more powerful (creating a planet or his beserker army) - he already was killing entire pantheons at this point. Whatever power increase he had was more so in his creative uses of All-Black: making Beserkers that could challenge Thor or Serpents that gave Old King Thor trouble (albeit the latter said Serpent was the by-product of killing thousands of gods just to amp Gorr). 'Skyrocket' wouldn't be a term I'd use - its more the same difference between Young Thor and Present Thor if anything.
Not sure why you continue to downplay the increase in Gorr's power. Nothing he showed before his time travelling was really on the level of what he did after. Losing an arm to a young Thor and being able to later beat young Thor, present Thor, and old Thor Force Thor all at once is a huge jump in power. He may have killed pantheons before, but he talks about doing it one by one and even if he didn't, think for a second. If he had killed a few pantheons before, but killed them dead, he'd have no power to draw on when fighting Thor, so the power there was the power he had. When he fought Thor later, he drew on the power of all the gods he had alive slaving for him. The difference in power should be obvious. Even if he drew on power of gods he'd killed, it would still not come close to matching the power he had later.
I'll try to explain my point of view a bit better. As I see it the difference really isn't as apparent: its akin to Y-Thor and P-Thor. Gorr's weapon gets better (his manipulation of it) and Gorr himself has an increase in power that allows him to do bigger things: create worlds, armies and enslave pantheons. Much like Thor - who trades up for Mjolnir and learns about his various divine powers throughout his career like the terrakinesis that he used to repair that planet. According to the first issue in the butcher arc it seems he doesn't have much of an issue tormenting gods individually - while the rest of the pantheon is sitting there.
Hell judging by how easily he dispatches two of the more powerful Slavic Gods (Perun and Chernobog) - I don't see how their combined pantheon would have faired better. Although Odin probably would have been quite a leap if Gorr actually got into Asgard - but then again Present Thor was telling Iron Man to warn the Olympians too so maybe not. But long story short: I'm not necessarily disagreeing that there is a power upgrade: The Gorr of Tomorrow is more powerful than the Gorr of Yestarday - just that I'm not sold as it being an apparent one. It took thousands of gods for Gorr to even match Old King Thor who charged his divine batteries just before the fight they had after centuries of being nearly powerless. And even then I'm not sold on it being a lasting buff to boot.
You're really arguing positioning in space right now? Fine, we'll do it that way. We have two panels where we have all three things, Thor, Gorr, and the wormhole. How are things arranged in both? From left to right we have Thor (in the first example, shown only by his words), then Gorr (in the second example shown by the impact), then the wormhole. These are consistent. As for the part of your argument that relies on them not ending back up where they started, that relies on you knowing both of these things. You don't know where they started because you don't see the serpent go into a wormhole from the planet. You also don't know where they end up because you're not told how far they are from Gorr's planet when they go through the wormhole.
I'm guessing since they're consistent you aren't disagreeing with that. I do have to make an assumption and that is the Serpent remained tethered to Gorr's world till Old King Thor kills it (and even then... it could still be). My reasoning for that is the fact the Serpent was rising from the planet's surface (god-blood and all) and even after creating the wormhole / devouring the Thors its still tethered through that wormhole - never revealing itself to be detached from it's main body (Gorr's world). It also just doesn't make any sense for Gorr or his serpent to open the event horizon dead in-front of a random moon orbiting a random world.
"Mildly enhanced by the thousands of gods he had just killed" more downplaying but at this point, whatever. As for what Old Thor did, there isn't actually any evidence that Gorr tried to fight back at any point while the bomb was going off. Even in that panel you show, Gorr isn't doing anything but being shocked and not believing what Thor is doing. Thor may be holding him, but there's nothing showing that Gorr is attempting anything and being stopped. If anything, he's transparent shock suggests he's not doing much more than looking in disbelief.
Old King Thor has him in an armlock restraining him from doing anything. That's kinda redundant if Gorr isn't trying to act after realizing what Thor's doing.
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