When has the Phoenix Forced been destroyed without the actual ending of the previous universe?
Adventures of X-men vol 1, 12. We went through this on the other thread as well didnt we?
That's even a stretch considering that being destroyed is final and it was not final for the Phoenix. It's part of the cycle it's death is temporary even on a cosmic scale.
The Force was as dead as it could be, and was reborn with the big bang where everything is reborn. Not sure how that counts as "not the final" for Phoenix?
Phoenix force can't and has NEVER been deatroyed permanently. only its body was destroyed not the"FORCE"
because end of phoenix actually means END OF EACH AND EVERYTHING IN MARVEL COMICS. (stan lee and jack kirby may still be alive)
It only would mean the end of planetary beings. Abstract concepts and other principalities have absolutely no reliance on the Phoenix Force for their existence.
that has not ever been proven. Abstracts only exist because sentient beings need concepts to exist, there could be no Death without life to give it purpose. Many of the principalities are nothing but beings from the universe that have moved to other planes of reality (that depend on the actual universe being present). They have power that can be multiversal but there are still several of them just like there are several universes, otherwise Cytorrak would have been powerful enough to keep Juggernauts powers from being halfed in Malibu, a Marvel universe that he has no influence in.
I believe that we are still arguing with CA supes vs Phoenix right?
we both know that the writer of the superman beyond comics isn't that stupid to think that there are only 10 billion stars in 52 universe
If the writer decides that superman survived an attack worth 52 universes then he actually means the size of the standard universe in each 52 universe
and for the stars thing, yeah you're right, I look it up on google just like what you did
and for the phoenix vs beyonder thing that we talked about, don't worry, just wait for me, I will investigate it when I have enough money to buy the comics that you cited just wait for me
Phoenix force can't and has NEVER been deatroyed permanently. only its body was destroyed not the"FORCE"
The Force was in fact destroyed.
A short copy paste from earlier post:
when Dweller in the Darkness broke the crystal, Galactus was guided to comic egg by Phoenix, he bonded to eternity, and everything including the Phoenix Force died. Then Galactus was born.
But thats just my words, lets put in the scans.
Firstly Nova Corps bio stating exactly what i just said:
Note what i says Phoenix saved Galan, who became Galactus, it also says Galactus is the sole survivor of the universe. Nothing else survived, not eternity, not Phoenix Force.
Further back by the bio i put above ( i put a small cut above lets look at the same thing in a bigger cut)
I think its pretty clear here, and the power of Galactus as you can see is directly attributed to Eternity and NOT Phoenix force. Nothing to do with Phoenix force.
This has of course been shown on panel but what happened isnt clearly explained. On panel this is what we saw
Gallery
because end of phoenix actually means END OF EACH AND EVERYTHING IN MARVEL COMICS. (stan lee and jack kirby may still be alive)
Could you show me a scan, a bio, anything that says this? Because Phoenix force has died, Phoenix force from mangaverse has died without the marvel comics ever been affected. In fact we have being that came to existence before Phoenix force, i.e. Chaos King.
@matmatxm8: Can i ask what Phoenix vs Beyonder thing he cited, because during Secret War 2 Rachel attacks Beyonder fails miserably, Beyonder gives her a portion of "his" power which would now allow Rachel to kill Beyonder, she doesnt kill him, she later returns the power to Beyonder also giving him a sense of what phoenix has been thru and he feels guilty. Thats about all that happened.
Gods Honest. I think that line was a misquote and a mistake. I always thought it was meant to be "10 Billion universes worth of energy." Not 10 billion suns. I mean, that makes no sense what so ever and to me was always an error that went missed by the editors. Nobody is that stupid and I find it hard to believe that the writers and editors would purposely say 10 billion suns of energy can harm a being that is physically larger than the entire DC universe and the Limbo dimension beyond it. The power of 10 billion universes...I can see that harming a being such as Mandrakk and the Thought Robot. Thats just my opinion though, not based on facts, but more based on logic.
Now, having said that. I feel absolutely safe in saying Beyonder would have no dominion in that area beyond Limbo in the DC universe. His power only resides in the physical planes of reality, all the omniverse/multiverse and his own Beyond. Where ever Mandrakk resided, it was beyond what I always considered DCs Beyond lol...so I highly doubt Beyonder would have any power there. Phoenix has only the power of all life that will exist. This is a damned tough battle to call and one I think about often. I would give it to Phoenix if she had no regard for anything. The combined potential life energy of all to come would be more than the power held by the Thought Robot and Mandrakk. However, there is absolutely no proof in the slightest she would even be able to land a strike like that. Her speed is unknown, and based on that I would have to say Mandrakk and the Thought Robot would easily avoid any attacks she throws at them, despite them potentially having enough energy to kill them.
@matmatxm8 said:
@Driger:
I believe that we are still arguing with CA supes vs Phoenix right?
we both know that the writer of the superman beyond comics isn't that stupid to think that there are only 10 billion stars in 52 universe
If the writer decides that superman survived an attack worth 52 universes then he actually means the size of the standard universe in each 52 universe
and for the stars thing, yeah you're right, I look it up on google just like what you did
and for the phoenix vs beyonder thing that we talked about, don't worry, just wait for me, I will investigate it when I have enough money to buy the comics that you cited just wait for me
@matmatxm8: Can i ask what Phoenix vs Beyonder thing he cited, because during Secret War 2 Rachel attacks Beyonder fails miserably, Beyonder gives her a portion of "his" power which would now allow Rachel to kill Beyonder, she doesnt kill him, she later returns the power to Beyonder also giving him a sense of what phoenix has been thru and he feels guilty. Thats about all that happened.
and I quote
"Uncanny X-Men #203. Secret Wars II tie-in issue. 1986"
the following objects inside the quotation marks is what that driger cited
he said that "Phoenix beats pre-retcon beyonder" driger said
"Uncanny X-Men #203. Secret Wars II tie-in issue. 1986"
the following objects inside the quotation marks is what that driger cited
he said that "Phoenix beats pre-retcon beyonder" driger said
That never happened, unless the definition of defeat has changed. Here are the relevant scans of when Beyonder comes back to reclaim that power he gave her
Gallery
Maybe its just be but Rachel giving beyonder back, his own powers, willingly doesnt even seem like a fight to me, not sure if you would disagree ;)
"Uncanny X-Men #203. Secret Wars II tie-in issue. 1986"
the following objects inside the quotation marks is what that driger cited
he said that "Phoenix beats pre-retcon beyonder" driger said
That never happened, unless the definition of defeat has changed. Here are the relevant scans of when Beyonder comes back to reclaim that power he gave her
Gallery
Maybe its just be but Rachel giving beyonder back, his own powers, willingly doesnt even seem like a fight to me, not sure if you would disagree ;)
what a scumbag! that driger is
he made my argument weak by showing the scan with two images suggesting "phoenix is beating beyonder" in the private message.
and he disregarded the story about "beyonder giving his powers to the phoenix." He didn't told me the truth, I was near at believing driger that Phoenix is actually stronger than Beyonder.
Anyway, thank you Killemall, you saved my poor ass.
Now, let's get back to the debate while waiting for driger to explain himself
@matmatxm8: LOL its funny how people misrepresent scans, Phoenix is a powerhouse, and her power is universal as per displayed feat and nothing more. None of Phoenix feat as been above universal thus far, and Beyonder was more powerful than all of marvel multiverse combined. Its not even remotely close between Phoenix vs Beyonder, be it pre retcon or post retcon.
Try not to argue on PM, a lot of misleading information will be provided as it doesnt attract attention of many viners who can correct it.
It's doubtful her power can exist in any place beyond the physical omniverse. In a place like the Beyond, or "Wherever Mandrakk resided" beyond Limbo, I highly doubt her power could even work there and there is no proof of any kind that it could. So, I go with Mandrakk, since he clearly doesn't leave his home base.
Actually Phoenix force is OMNIVERSAL entity and she has created all of marvel omniverse. and the proofs are below.
1st proof
phoenix is bigbang ang each and everything in all universes(the whole omniverse) originates from big bang.
2nd proof - well its natural that if phoenix is not omniversal then how are lifes present in all of omniverse? phoenix is creator of life. lifes can't exist without her.
Nowhere in that picture does it state Phoenix was the creator of all things. Phoenix is just the primal force of nature that controls the destiny of all life in each universe. She has no power in the Beyond and was actually made a fool by Beyonder...twice i think?
Phoenix is an entity of creational power mostly, she cannot destroy an entire universe in my opinion. However, Mandrakk can.
Mandrakk was able to feed directly on the Bleed, drawing energy from it which he used to fly and shoot energy from his hands and eyes. Mandrakk is also described as the ultimate threat to the Multiverse, capable of shattering entire universes with relative ease.
phoenix is bigbang and each and everything in all universes(the whole omniverse) originates from respective big bangs. and phoenix is omniversal so she is big bang of all universes not just 1 universe.
beyonder was made fool by doom.
All phoenix has to do is to take out life force of superman and thought robot becomes useless(this statement is actually of some other poster in this thread) and I think this is possible.
phoenix is bigbang and each and everything in all universes(the whole omniverse) originates from respective big bangs. and phoenix is omniversal so she is big bang of all universes not just 1 universe.
beyonder was made fool by doom.
All phoenix has to do is to take out life force of superman and thought robot becomes useless(this statement is actually of some other poster in this thread) and I think this is possible.
And the phoenix was shattered by xorn/magneto...seriously...
Phoenix was never said to be omniversal and was created during the original creation of the universe, the first big bang. After the big crunch, it saved Galactus from destruction. So, she is not omniversal in the slightest. She is the representation of all potential life in the physical universe. This does not mean she is the combined sum of every reality that exists. Her power represents the potential sum of all of the future life energy the current universe will ever have. And it is not infinite, the universe will end and has ended before so the power of the Phoenix is very finite. At the end of every age of the universe, its power is reset back to whatever the potential life energy is for the current age. Over time, and with every waking second of her existence, she saps the potential life energy of the universe and depletes it by an unknown amount.
-Doom never made a fool of the Beyonder in a power battle. Beyonder can do almost anything, especially pre retcon'ed form. Saying Doom is stronger than Pre Retcon Beyonder is silly.
-Phoenix cannot strip life forms of their energy. Such a thing has never been shown in her power skill set. She can stop Superman from being born if she attempted to do so prior to his birth. Afterwards, the life energy is spent and I really doubt she can freely remove life from anyone or anything as she pleases.
would you please send me link to those biographies ? also tell me ecactly how many bios marvel is publishing ? and also where can i find all of them ? i only know about marvel universe wiki at its official website and few others like marvunapp.
and a here is a multiversal feat for phoenix's AVATAR. not even full phoenix force. and as your scan says it exists in all realities of multiverse(infinite realities) hence there are INFINITE such avatars, hence Phoenix force is INFINITELY more powerful than just multiversal.
also i hope you know that marvel multiversal > dc multiversal cuz dc has finite number of universes but marvel has infinite.
also i read superman beyond but honestly i didn't find a single feat for mandrakk apart from hyperboles. people say he beat spectre, wasn't that 2nd mandrakk ? and supes defeates 1st mandrakk ? in other words 1st mandrak is featless
correct me if i am wrong :)
I infact have scans to prove her omniverasl but that scan would prove even guys like thor and hulk to be omniversal too. ROFL so i am not going to post it :D
@mysticranger: mandrakk can beat silver surfer so bad he will never exist again, after he beat silver surfer he can then go on to kill galactus with a blink of his eye
@anti_killemall: I love you screen name :) but yeah the feat in question is out of context. Necrom used Phoenix to create a lighthouse in every reality, which would be a feat for Phoenix and Phoenix alone had they not done it using a nexus event called "interface alignment". Without a nexus that wouldnt have been possible, and nexus allows people to do that just well. Using a walking nexus , Man Thing, Franklin was able to create multiple universes. Using another nexus, Otherworld, Surtur was going to burn the multiverse.
The close feat to multiversal that might have been performed came very recently during AvX where Hope undoes Wanda no more mutant spell, but we dont know how much of Wanda's powers she was tapping or if other realities have been recovered.
@killemall: its on purpose :P but interface alignment was used ONLY for alignment. ONLY for keeping the essence of towers in the position and place they should be.
essence of tower throughout multiverse was created/projected by phoenix avatar and ONLY phoenix avatar. it was aligned by the nexus.
WITHOUT the nexus, Phoenix would still have created/projected those towers THROUGHOUT MULTIVERSE but it all would have been in distorted shape or not properly. hence full phoenix force is infinite times above multiversal hence most probably omniversal.
post scan of hope vs wanda moment your tallking about
also you ignored my point on thought robot
and you didn't tell me where to find those biographies :( it was the main reason i replied to your comment. i even bolded the question in previous comment.
@killemall: its on purpose :P but interface alignment was used ONLY for alignment. ONLY for keeping the essence of towers in the position and place they should be.
Cool.
Although nothing about the alignment being only for keeping essence of the tower was ever mentioned, in fact when you got into the rest of the story, it becomes more clear because the alignment was going to be used by Neron, alongside the tower, his mystical know-how, as well as the power of phoenix to turn the multiverse into a singularity, power of which was going to be absorbed and used to make him a god.
The huge advantage of Nexus sort of happen all the time in comics, i also recall Havok using a nexus to actually kill a genuine abstract level being called Goblin force who swallowed entire Phoenix force of that reality.
WITHOUT the nexus, Phoenix would still have created/projected those towers THROUGHOUT MULTIVERSE but it all would have been in distorted shape or not properly. hence full phoenix force is infinite times above multiversal hence most probably omniversal.
I dont recall get what you are trying to say, but i do know for a fact that nothing about the tower being distorted has ever been mentioned. There are also multiple bios that explain Phoenix powers being universal.
Also how does being able to project a small lighthouse in the multiverse make you above the multiverse?
post scan of hope vs wanda moment your tallking about
Here you are.
Gallery
also you ignored my point on thought robot
He was pushing the entire DC multiverse and feed on it, saw the multiverse and everyone in it as germs, that sort of shows how powerful Thought Robot's opponent had to be.
He was not feeding on anything physical, he was feeding on stories.
Its also in line with what Grant Morrision explained in his interview.
Try thing alongside Superman 3D and you will see the story in a whole new light.
Its an academic analysis with a lot of interview and stuffs.
and you didn't tell me where to find those biographies :( it was the main reason i replied to your comment. i even bolded the question in previous comment.
I have collected a whole bunch of biographies from Marvel over the year.
They have 7 volumes of official handbooks, various one shots, Encyclopedias and and bio entries attached at the end of various issues. I did not get them all from one source so its hard to explain where you could find those bios.
Pretty sure if you try around in the internet, searching marvel handbook few would likely pop up.
Phoenix can create and controls eternity and eternity is omniversal
ALL UNIVERSES = OMNIVERSE, isisn't it ? thought robot have multiversal feats and dc has 52 universes only. so even if he DID saw them as germs( which appears to be hyperbole ) still its nothing compared to infinite universes marvel has.
Secondly that was meant to be humanity true potential, that they would one day rise above and replace Eternity.
"She understand, practically years - to withness mankind's wole as the universe's eventual destroyer and saviour".
"until humanity becomes Eternity".
That was meant to be humanity's true potential, which is why Stranger came to Earth in the first place.
It becomes more evident if you look at the very next page:
Couple of pages earlier, Jean as Phoenix , has this to say.
Jean: "We're barely powerful enough to get the Stranger's attention, much less defeat him"
When Eternity finally explains Jean how as an abstract he know and accepts his faith, and says they have the permission to kick Stranger butt, Jean attack him, thats like 5 pages after the scan you posted, and Jean finds her helpless.
Stranger is eventually defeated when X-men work together, and the person who fares best against Stranger in that issue is Ice Man, not Jean nor Juggernaut.
Makes sense?
You wanna understand the stuffs in more detail , the issues you gotta check out is X-men Forever # 4 to # 6, these scans as well as your scan is from issue # 6.
@killemall: ANYTHING published by marvel is canon for phoenix
1) she controls something(humanity) that can become eternity and even after becoming eternity its not that she would lose control or something. She would still control them. It means she would control eternity. my point is still true.
also humans are not going to rise all by themselves. She is their life force, which would help them in rise to be eternity. and i didn't say she is stronger than stranger.
also molecule man rised above eternity. and he too gets his life force from phoenix as hes human.
2) Actually I didn't read that issue, i just got those scans in google and there was 1 more i found, in which she beat beyonder. she Knocked Out him and he went unconscious. Now you may say that it was because of power beyonder himself gave to her BUT actually its impossible for someone to get overwhelmed by his own power. He was overwhelmed because of the extra power and experiances she gave to him. Doesn't it means shes stronger than beyonder ? i knowbeyonder is said millions times stronger than multiverse but feats > statements.
3) Also as i said, as the name of device "interface alignment" suggests, the nexus was used only for alignment, for keeping towers in right place. creating/projecting towers throughout multiverse IS a multiversal feat and you can't ignore it.
@killemall: ANYTHING published by marvel is canon for phoenix
That would actually get you more in trouble because we have a pretty ordinary to say the least, version of Phoenix in the mangaverse, and at one time the entire Phoenix force in the mangaverse was killed.
Then we again venture into the whole realm of Universe X where entire Phoenix force was devoured.
That wont normally help Phoenix.
Some alternate realities are canon to Phoenix, its normally backed by the bio.
Even then Phoenix force and power in this reality wasnt any impressive really.
1) she controls something(humanity) that can become eternity and even after becoming eternity its not that she would lose control or something. She would still control them. It means she would control eternity. my point is still true.
I dont think i understand what you are saying, X-men were just used as a proxy to humanity, rather than that being anything intrinsically have to do anything with Phoenix in particular.
Its again re-stated here, its was not Jean or anyone in particular it was all human race that would once day become Eternity, replacing the abstracts.
also humans are not going to rise all by themselves. She is their life force, which would help them in rise to be eternity.
Not sure i understand, how does humanity potential to one day be , well for lack of better words god, have anything to do with Phoenix?
Again, in this reality it was made clearly that fundamental forces in the universe together created humanity.
"Indeed that is why we created the human race"
Human's potential was seeded by the Celestial, which is true even in 616 reality.
"The celestial ...... seeding all of the cretion with the potential to instigate the end"
She has to, at the very least, be stronger than Stranger if she is to be multiversal. You can be weaker than a Galactus-lite and at the same time be multiverse.
also molecule man rised above eternity. and he too gets his life force from phoenix as hes human.
Molecule Man rise has nothing to do with his life force, he became so powerful because an experment gone wrong, broke out universe's barrier rustling forth the energies from the universe of Beyonder(s) [s is in bracket because his origin has been later retconned].
His powers comes from a whole different universe, linked to the power of Beyonder, nothing to do with Phoenix.
Current Molecule Man has the same history as well, but rather than being from the multiverse of Beyonder as one, his energy comes from the universe of Beyonder, a universe that exists outside negative zone which is where the powers to create the cosmic cube comes from, hence why he is now a neo-omnipotent cosmic cube being.. well dead neo-omnipotent cosmic cube being.. and he isnt as powerful as Eternity anymore.
2) Actually I didn't read that issue, i just got those scans in google and there was 1 more i found, in which she beat beyonder. she Knocked Out him and he went unconscious.
She didnt knock him out or anything and yes Beyonder was the one who gave her his powers to begin with.
Going an issue earlier Rachel herself attack Beyonder, with Phoenix Force, hoping to kill him, this is before Beyonder himself gave her the powers.
Gallery
Rachel: "Nothing happened?! I flared like a supernova, i hit this island with all the powers i possessedand outside of this patch of fused earth, did absolutely no damage"
Beyonder : "I would not allow it"
Hard to argue Beyonder wasnt significantly more powerful than Phoenix, but admittedly thats not bad for Phoenix though, coz Beyonder was Jim Shooters boy, created to be as godly as it gets.
Now coming back to the instance in question, which is from The Uncanny X-men # 203, Beyonder comes to ask Rachel to give him back his power.
Beyonder: "You are of no use to me Phoenix. Therefore i require the return of what is rightfully mine in full"
Rachel: "Gladly"
So what Rachel actually did was give Beyonder back his power, a page earlier its revealed that Beyonder gave Rachel that power hoping she would go to M'Kraan Crystal, break it and destroy the universe. Because Beyonder was tired of trying to understand humanity he wanted to kill them all.
When Phoenix returns his powers, its not the force of his attack, its that Phoenix makes him experience truth about humanity in totality which is what overwhelms his sense, he is not knocked out or anything, you can see him fall to the ground and get up next issue.
Read the page next to what the feat you are talking about (last page in the scan i will post) then you will understand the concept better.
Gallery
Like you can see it wasnt even a fight, and it was Beyonder being fed information about humanity, a concept he couldnt understand. Which is pretty much what the whole Secret Wars 2 is about, Beyonder wonder what is hunger, why do people get old etc etc.
3) Also as i said, as the name of device "interface alignment" suggests, the nexus was used only for alignment, for keeping towers in right place. creating/projecting towers throughout multiverse IS a multiversal feat and you can't ignore it.
That still doesnt change the fact that a nexus was used and it was made pretty clearly a nexus had to be used for the projection of the lighthouse. Without the interface alignment Phoenix woldnt be able to project the lighthouse through the multiverse.
Again that using a nexus, to project a lighthouse throught the multiverse that about it, Surtur has done better, so has Havok.. its hard to use that to suggest Phoenix is multiversal.. But we could agree to disagree.
1) stranger clearly says, she controls eternity.your saying that hes pointing towards humans who can rise to become eternity. I am saying whats the difference ? weather she directly control eternity or she control someone who can become eternity. similar things.
as you said "fundamental forces in the universe together created humanity." SO WHAT ? even if they are created by many forces still controlled ONLY by phoenix. stranger says PHOENIX controls. you got my point ? Doesn't matter whose power it is,. Thing which matters is who controls that power.
2) MM got powers from beyonders realm BUT the potential was his own
"possesses greatest potential of all and BY CHANCE achieved it" Doesn't it mean phoenix who controls life force due to which MM took birth, came into existance would have much higher potential ?
4) you said "Without the interface alignment Phoenix woldnt be able to project the lighthouse through the multiverse." WHY NOT ????
nexus didn't do anything at all in projection, it helped ONLY in alignment. without the nexus Phoenix could have projected it but it would have gone distorted and not in the way it was supposed to be,
however i would agree on beyonder part, but what actually beyonder is at present according to writers ?
1. meh, you're the one trolling, my teacher says, "mars, mercury, venus and etc. are stars". Your argument is invalid, because you are not a teacher, she's a teacher
there are still stars like mercury, saturn, venus, and etc
WOW just WOW !!!!!! after reading this i think people here would be glad that they are not teacher :P
I know this was previously stated, but it's pivotal in this thread. The White Phoenix is omniversal, CA Superman (CAS from now on) is but multiversal. Each universe is theoretically infinite in the dimensions it occupies, so it can be taken to mean each universe has the same amount of energy. Now, in mathematics, there exists something called variable infinities. CAS has 'infinite power' yes, but his infinity is also infinitely less than WPOTC's 'infinite power'. Assuming CAS can manipulate reality (i.e. ability to restructure the realms of matter, energy, space, time, thought, some of which he has still yet to show), he would therefore only be able to do such within the 52 universes that comprise the DC Multiverse. WPOTC can do so on an infinitely infinite scale, if you would. Now comes the problem of WHERE the battle will be held, something which (surprisingly), no one has yet brought up. It is accepted that these are two beings who can exist beyond basic universal boundaries. If the battle takes place in the astral plane, WPOTC would win, because she controls the realm of thought, which is basically what the astral plane is made of. If the battle takes place in a Marvel universe, WPOTC would win (in a curbstomp, might I say), as she has complete control over all the aspects of that reality and universe. If it takes place in a DC Universe, CAS would win, as he would then have control (maybe not complete control because he was never shown to, but control enough) of that reality, given that it is within his native domain. Because of this, the most fair battleground would be one outside both the DC and Marvel Universes. For the sake of simplicity, lets say it takes place in an omniverse that exists outside DC and Marvel. Because both DC and Marvel canon story lines will have to remain true, there will inevitably be logical gaps. (It's simple really. It's like saying, 'what if the Presence and The One-Above-All fought? Both are truly omnipotent over their respective fictionalised regions, and exist outside them. But once they are taken out of their regions and placed in battle, they will effectively lose their omnipotent powers, making the battle plain stupid and moot.) So lets say CAS is said to be 'omnipotent' within his 52 universes and WPOTC is the same, but in her infinite number of universes. Simple logic will tell you that both their powers will be lost and the battle will be reduced to both beings sitting on a park bench staring at each other.
So now it ultimately boils down to interpretation of their powers. My personal interpretation has it that WPOTC will defeat CAS, as she possesses control over the realms of matter, energy, space, time and thought, which covers everything and anything other than logic, because only The One-Above-All possesses the power to manipulate logic. In general, CAS is a shady character in terms of power because there is very little stated about him, but I would also assume he can restructure the five aspects of reality as stated earlier, but on a smaller power scale.
So basically, my interpretation deems that the White Phoenix of the Crown wins this battle.
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