You posted the scan yourself in which he did in-fact stop time. That's why Sif, the Enchantress and Magni are frozen in place. I'm not sure how you don't see that the panels are un-moving as Thor is flying around - that's the entire point of doing that, to show time was effectively halted for everyone outside Thor and the Designate.
I actually never noticed till date they were still lol, i though they were moving. Fair enough, thank for pointing that out.
Stopping time in his fight with Desak wouldn't have been effective because of the amulet. Desak effectively proved himself immune to the Odin Force and anything it does. There is no reason he can't do the same here.
The Amulete was said to make Desaak as powerful as gods, it was never suppose to be immune from Odin Force. Desaak already proved he was capable of withstanding Odin Force Thor attacks in The Mighty Thor 551
True, but his experience with said beard takes him a while to master it.
I dont understand how beard has a big connection with Odin force but i'll just roll along.
He lost the Odin Force in disassembled, it's why Loki was able to accomplish everything he did. It wasn't until he killed himself / revived himself till he was embraced by the Odin Power again.
He got it back before Thor 600 though. He has still had 18 odd issues to show his powers after both RKT and King thor saga.
He wasn't sporting the entire Odin Force post resurrection - nor the knowledge of the runes. Namely why it was such a tremendous effort to remake Asgard - taking a week, for Odin during Fear Itself - he's literally creating a planet, with footsteps - as well as a new war-time Asgard and a jail for Thor. Pretty sure most of the Odinforce is long gone by #615 (like way back in Thor 602) and I'm not sure how ending the Ragnarok cycle isn't significant.
Granted he did not look as powerful as King Thor post resurrection i have seen nothing to suggest he only had a portion of Odin Force. Odin doesnt come back to Asgard all the way until Thor 618 or Fear Itself 1 (dont know which happened first) so yeah not sure.
Ragnarok cycle? Are we talking The Mighty Thor 587 because becasuse The Mighty Thor 597 stand to reason he still had Odin Force in him.
What? Desak had no issue attacking the Destroyer, the Destroyer is the one that had issues attacking Desak.
Since when did Desak serve the Designate / Thor Girl? He's a lone God Slayer - that if I recall killed the person that gave him that amulet to begin with.
Desak with had no idea whos soul was animating the Destroyer Armor, once he finds out he doesnt attack the Destroyer Armor anymore.
Designate/ Thor Girl was the person who resurrected Desak after his death on the hands of King Thor in The Mighty Thor 551.
It was Designate/ Thor Girl who gave him the amulate to begin with, it was Designate/ Thor Girl who appeared as the lady of the Jewel to Desak and who's orders he was following.
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Why wouldn't the Destroyer be capable of lifting it on his own? Odin already zapped the Asgardians with a spell that let Thor use it against the World Eaters - so I'm not sure what incentive, outside making the Destroyer / himself as powerful as possible to fight the Celestials, he would have to enter the Destroyer. I'm well aware that a number of beings have hopped into the Destroyer and have clobbered Thor while possessing it; I'm under the impression there's a difference between Odin going in the Destroyer and a random civilian on the street.
Its not about Destroyer Armor not being able to lift it , but for Odin to trust the sword in the hands of another not to mention the Destroyer was heavily heavily amped would be understandable why Odin hopped into it rather than anyone else.
So if you are quite well verse on many souls that have animated Destroyer you would know that whichever soul it is, Destroyer armor seem to be on the same power level. It look the same while being animated by the soul of hunter, the same while being animated by soul of sif, and the same when being animated by the soul of hell-wolf however the latter prove too unstable and Destroyer was shut down.
Unless Odin know some special trick, i have seen no evidence to suggest there is a difference, if you have by all means correct me.
I'm not sure weak would be the right word - Desak looked unphased by everything, outside the Destroyer clobbering him for a bit - everyone else on the other hand weren't faring too well.
Weak as in weaker than what he normally started. The only attack Desak faced after merging with the destroyer was Thor's attack.
I'm not sure why you're under that impression - the Designate is Thor Girl - someone Thanos nearly killed prior to learning about her power. If said amulet was her power - why would it be required to set her free in the first place?
From what i understood it was meant to be a future version of Thor Girl that becomes the designate, but takes a different name The Spirit of Jewel. She is the one who guides Desak in the first place, the same person who gives Desak the powers.
Nothing in the story suggests he's twice as powerful as Odin - simply he had to sacrifice twice as much for what he gained. The only arguable difference here for Thor and Odin - outside the runes is Thor's lineage through his father and Gaea - Rune King Thor might be the closest Thor will ever get to his Elder God roots. The thing is Odin apparently couldn't do what Thor did - so the writer is suggesting in some way Thor is in-fact more powerful at this point than his father.
This i agree.
When the narrative describes his perspective now encompassing the past, present and future - as well as exactly what he will do - what else can one call it? It may be somewhat limited Omniscience (As in his perspective is really tied to just his universe really) but he's still doing things - he already knows he is going to do. It's just Adam Warlock with the IG. I'm not sure what purpose another showing - where another weapon was able to cleave through it, has much to do with durability (piercing vs durability - the Hulk is a regular offender as Wolverine cuts into someone arguably too durable to cut.) My point was Thor already knows what to do - no matter how fast his opponent would be - you're not beating out Omniscience in terms for thought processing power.
I'm not sure that is the case to be honest and given how many argue SA Superman isn't as durable as his Post Crisis counter part - someone as durable (or likely more so) as Mjolnir should still hold up.
Otherwise Thor would be dropping Odin every-time he slaps him with said hammer to the head - instead his father man handles him.
The ability to see past, present and future came when he was hung up in the tree, so his ability to do so after being released from the tree is still questionable. Not to mention TWSAIS also claimed they could see past , present and future but they couldnt see what Thor was about to do, i.e. break the thread. So how far he can see, and how correct his visions are, is still doubtful.
Also what good is seeing a future if you arent fast enough to change it.
Sa not being as durable as post-crisis superman thats rediculious. The same guy who went toe to toe with Anti-monitor, the same guy who went toe to toe with SA Mongul and beat him who was one shotting planets like it were nothing etc has to be many times more durable than Superman. Also Thor has to actually connect with the hammer though, he's a lot faster.
Why would Odin hit Thor such that thor would you know die. Odin obviously holds back even when enraged at Thor.
He doesn't get to have that knowledge till he has apparently chocked himself long enough to actually die - the whole point of the runes to give him the ability to see the future - which he doesn't lose throughout - namely the new pair of shiney glowy magic eyes. Given his father Odin has a similar grander perception of the cosmos and his place in it (that he liked to show off to Stark in FI) - I'm not sure why this new perception is only limited to Thor while he's strung up on a tree.
The magic shiney glowy eye, as you put it was there because he sacrificed his normal eyes on the well, he had to do that anyways. Odin didnt have same perception, he could see past, present and future when he wanted to not all the time, which explains why he was repeatedly tricked by Loki , and i think the same should be true for Thor. I have seen nothing suggesting he keeps seeing past, present and future all the time, would tend to make him rather disoriented wouldnt it?
After his defeat of Desak - Thor's run as King Thor was done. He didn't exactly need to remove anyone from existence.
Thats the big question, Thor tried to erase Desak out of existence twice as King Thor , one where Desak had the amulate, one where he did not and failed both time. Apart from Desak he didnt erase anyone from existence.
Here's scan from Thor 551
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So since Thor hasnt actually erased anyone from existence, despite his talk, his said ability is questionable.
I actually never noticed till date they were still lol, i though they were moving. Fair enough, thank for pointing that out.
Well at least we cleared that up. :)
The Amulete was said to make Desaak as powerful as gods, it was never suppose to be immune from Odin Force. Desaak already proved he was capable of withstanding Odin Force Thor attacks in The Mighty Thor 551
In this case, he had outright immunity:
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"Just as you are immune to a common cold -- So am I immune to your power." - Namely why all of Thor's efforts are proven completely fruitless.
I dont understand how beard has a big connection with Odin force but i'll just roll along.
The Beard defines the Odin Power! But without mastery of the Beard, how could Thor ever hope to use the Odin Power to it's fullest?!
But I'm glad we agree!
He got it back before Thor 600 though. He has still had 18 odd issues to show his powers after both RKT and King thor saga.
Honestly, it's hard argue for me after Ragnarok that Thor possessed the entirety of the Odinforce - otherwise he wouldn't be going to Doctor Strange to reforge the hammer or having anywhere to the difficulty remaking Asgard. The fact Odin still possess the Odin Power to me suggests either it somehow returned to him when Mjolnir strikes that casket or Thor wasn't sporting the entirety of said power.
Granted he did not look as powerful as King Thor post resurrection i have seen nothing to suggest he only had a portion of Odin Force. Odin doesnt come back to Asgard all the way until Thor 618 or Fear Itself 1 (dont know which happened first) so yeah not sure.Ragnarok cycle? Are we talking The Mighty Thor 587 because becasuse The Mighty Thor 597 stand to reason he still had Odin Force in him.
For the most part, outside his fights with Bor and the Destroyer - Thor's power output didn't exactly seem on the level of Skyfather after his resurrection. Otherwise a lot of situations he found himself in, a wave of the hand would have ended the fights (with the exception of potentially Bor). I was referring to Rune King Thor ending the Ragnarok Cycle - something beyond Odin's power.
The events of Fear Itself conclude with Odin taking the Serpent with him to the new Asgard and cutting the dimension off from Earth and Thor resurrects him at the end of 618.
Desak with had no idea whos soul was animating the Destroyer Armor, once he finds out he doesnt attack the Destroyer Armor anymore. Designate/ Thor Girl was the person who resurrected Desak after his death on the hands of King Thor in The Mighty Thor 551. It was Designate/ Thor Girl who gave him the amulate to begin with, it was Designate/ Thor Girl who appeared as the lady of the Jewel to Desak and who's orders he was following.
The Destroyer fighting on it's own after he used the amulet to free her - but looks like I was dead wrong about her being the creator / benefactor of Desak.
Its not about Destroyer Armor not being able to lift it , but forOdin to trust the sword in the hands of anothernot to mention the Destroyer was heavily heavily amped would be understandable why Odin hopped into it rather than anyone else. So if you are quite well verse on many souls that have animated Destroyer you would know that whichever soul it is, Destroyer armor seem to be on the same power level. It look the same while being animated by the soul of hunter, the same while being animated by soul of sif, and the same when being animated by the soul of hell-wolf however the latter prove too unstable and Destroyer was shut down. Unless Odin know some special trick, i have seen no evidence to suggest there is a difference, if you have by all means correct me.
He hasn't had much issue with letting Thor use it a number of times (right, three specific ones coming to mind).
I honestly can't recall if it's been stated that the inhabitant in question can affect the Destroyer's level of power - it's just when someone like Odin is using it, it seems to have a lot more power than Sif or Baldar possess. Namely why he hopped his body to continue fighting Galactus in the Destroyer - which normally I wouldn't see posing much of a threat to Galactus given he's made it his herald before. Seems when the Designate was freed - she warped the hell out of it effortlessly regardless.
Weak as in weaker than what he normally started. The only attack Desak faced after merging with the destroyer was Thor's attack.
Magni threw the street at him before being blasted by the Designate if I recall. However Desak didn't seem at all strained from his efforts against Thor and Magni - them on the other hand not so much.
From what i understood it was meant to be a future version of Thor Girl that becomes the designate, but takes a different name The Spirit of Jewel. She is the one who guides Desak in the first place, the same person who gives Desak the powers.
From my understanding of the Amulet - it's sporting the powers of every god Desak butchers. But I get that now, the scans you posted cleared it up.
The ability to see past, present and future came when he was hung up in the tree, so his ability to do so after being released from the tree is still questionable. Not to mention TWSAIS also claimed they could see past , present and future but they couldnt see what Thor was about to do, i.e. break the thread. So how far he can see, and how correct his visions are, is still doubtful. Also what good is seeing a future if you arent fast enough to change it. Sa not being as durable as post-crisis superman thats rediculious. The same guy who went toe to toe with Anti-monitor, the same guy who went toe to toe with SA Mongul and beat him who was one shotting planets like it were nothing etc has to be many times more durable than Superman. Also Thor has to actually connect with the hammer though, he's a lot faster. Why would Odin hit Thor such that thor would you know die. Odin obviously holds back even when enraged at Thor.
I just don't see why he needs to be strung up dead to see the future - that was to get the power of the runes that are supposed to allow him to perceive / guide it. TWSAIS clearly had a lesser foresight in comparison to Thor at that point - they likely had some image of what the events would transpire - it's just Thor at this point can see a scenario that works to end this cycle.
I'm not arguing you can't blitz someone with Omniscience - it's just moving faster than someone can think - kinda doesn't work in this case in the sense that Thor knows what is going to happen. Not to mention CA actually has to think to and I doubt he's sporting that many speedblitzs in his limited appearance. The hammer itself is likely faster than he is, but Thor doesn't need his hammer to actually hit his opponent here - the Odin Power gives him a lot of options.
Given he's dropped Thor effortlessly, I'm well aware even in a physically fight the only thing Thor has that can hurt him is Mjolnir and even that is only momentary with a thought.
The magic shiney glowy eye, as you put it was there because he sacrificed his normal eyes on the well, he had to do that anyways. Odin didnt have same perception, he could see past, present and future when he wanted to not all the time, which explains why he was repeatedly tricked by Loki , and i think the same should be true for Thor. I have seen nothing suggesting he keeps seeing past, present and future all the time, would tend to make him rather disoriented wouldnt it?
But he didn't have those magic eyes until gaining back the Odin Power and the knowledge of the Runes - which clearly changed him and his perspective. For Odin I was talking more cosmic awareness / grander perception that he used to teach a bit of humble to Stark - but being tricked by Loki (while I don't see as too low a showing) / his general lack of foresight is the same as Galactus - or really any high powered character. It's not fun if they know everything.
Thats the big question, Thor tried to erase Desak out of existence twice as King Thor , one where Desak had the amulate, one where he did not and failed both time. Apart from Desak he didnt erase anyone from existence. Here's scan from Thor 551.So since Thor hasnt actually erased anyone from existence, despite his talk, his said ability is questionable.
That was more so Thor blasting him with the Odin Power - rather then reality warping him. Namely the smoke coming off his face. The fact Thor merge people (in the case you posted himself and Olsen) gives me an impression that he could probably simply Zap them out of existence just as effortlessly. Creating people, making them cease to be and what have you isn't too big of a deal with the Odin Power.
"Just as you are immune to a common cold -- So am I immune to your power." - Namely why all of Thor's efforts are proven completely fruitless.
I did understand he has immunity to odin force, but what i dont think that was amulet's power but rather a power of his own.
The Beard defines the Odin Power! But without mastery of the Beard, how could Thor ever hope to use the Odin Power to it's fullest?!
haha that statement just made my day, well done, good sir.
Honestly, it's hard argue for me after Ragnarok that Thor possessed the entirety of the Odinforce - otherwise he wouldn't be going to Doctor Strange to reforge the hammer or having anywhere to the difficulty remaking Asgard. The fact Odin still possess the Odin Power to me suggests either it somehow returned to him when Mjolnir strikes that casket or Thor wasn't sporting the entirety of said power.
But has this ever been explained that Thor didnt have full Odin Force, coz he looked a lot less powerful. Odin force has many times said to be limitless , so i dont think Odin possessing a portion of it would have made a big difference (after all Thor with a small portion of Odin force from an Odin who was already dying easily beat Magog and went on to beat Thanos too, sadly later retconned as being a doppelganger) but there probably was some explaination outside his solo issue, because its Thor's solo issue that i am very well versed and i am sure there was no such explanation outside his solo issue.
In short, i agree here, but would love to see if anyone can point out any statement made in regards to this.
He hasn't had much issue with letting Thor use it a number of times (right, three specific ones coming to mind).
I honestly can't recall if it's been stated that the inhabitant in question can affect the Destroyer's level of power - it's just when someone like Odin is using it, it seems to have a lot more power than Sif or Baldar possess. Namely why he hopped his body to continue fighting Galactus in the Destroyer - which normally I wouldn't see posing much of a threat to Galactus given he's made it his herald before. Seems when the Designate was freed - she warped the hell out of it effortlessly regardless.
Maybe its special to odin, or maybe there is something we both are missing about the explanation of Destroyer's power. I have not seen it , and i am pretty sure there is no such explanation in his solo issue, but outside that i am not too sure.
But so far, i am more inclined to agree here too.
Magni threw the street at him before being blasted by the Designate if I recall. However Desak didn't seem at all strained from his efforts against Thor and Magni - them on the other hand not so much.
I went back to check and well he did ,seemed to have missed that one too. Then we have the designate/ spirit of jewel one shot Magi, she really doesnt like Magi it seems.
I just don't see why he needs to be strung up dead to see the future - that was to get the power of the runes that are supposed to allow him to perceive / guide it. TWSAIS clearly had a lesser foresight in comparison to Thor at that point - they likely had some image of what the events would transpire - it's just Thor at this point can see a scenario that works to end this cycle.
I'm not arguing you can't blitz someone with Omniscience - it's just moving faster than someone can think - kinda doesn't work in this case in the sense that Thor knows what is going to happen. Not to mention CA actually has to think to and I doubt he's sporting that many speedblitzs in his limited appearance. The hammer itself is likely faster than he is, but Thor doesn't need his hammer to actually hit his opponent here - the Odin Power gives him a lot of options.
Given he's dropped Thor effortlessly, I'm well aware even in a physically fight the only thing Thor has that can hurt him is Mjolnir and even that is only momentary with a thought.
I am still hesitant to agree, but since i have no hard and fast proof otherwise and your explanation is pretty reasonable, i have no other option but to agree :)
Well i dont think he has , but with he has the speed of SA Superman which should let him blitz if he wanted to.
But he didn't have those magic eyes until gaining back the Odin Power and the knowledge of the Runes - which clearly changed him and his perspective. For Odin I was talking more cosmic awareness / grander perception that he used to teach a bit of humble to Stark - but being tricked by Loki (while I don't see as too low a showing) / his general lack of foresight is the same as Galactus - or really any high powered character. It's not fun if they know everything.
I have actually seen Odin/ Watcher together peer into future events, both of whom saw Thor going evil and foresaw The Reigning, in Mighty Thor 539 (which is about 6 issues beforeThor even got Odin force in The Mighty Thor 545)
Thats the only instance that i have saved, but i am quite certain it has happened a couple of times before.
That was more so Thor blasting him with the Odin Power - rather then reality warping him. Namely the smoke coming off his face. The fact Thor merge people (in the case you posted himself and Olsen) gives me an impression that he could probably simply Zap them out of existence just as effortlessly. Creating people, making them cease to be and what have you isn't too big of a deal with the Odin Power.
Look at his express words "Let it end thy miserable existence forever.. " so could be he was trying to kill Desak or trying to erase out of his existence. Probably the formal, but lack of actual instance where he's done so makes it hard to take that as a reason why he should win.
Merging people and erasing them from existence are 2 different things. Also when did he merge Jake Olsen, i though he fought and killed him in 569 which was one reason he went all evil because of that, I understood that as being him kill the human part of him.
I did understand he has immunity to odin force, but what i dont think that was amulet's power but rather a power of his own.
It's the amulet - namely why emphasis is put on it as it glows and what have you defending Desak from the Odin Power.
But has this ever been explained that Thor didnt have full Odin Force, coz he looked a lot less powerful. Odin force has many times said to be limitless , so i dont think Odin possessing a portion of it would have made a big difference (after all Thor with a small portion of Odin force from an Odin who was already dying easily beat Magog and went on to beat Thanos too, sadly later retconned as being a doppelganger) but there probably was some explaination outside his solo issue, because its Thor's solo issue that i am very well versed and i am sure there was no such explanation outside his solo issue. In short, i agree here, but would love to see if anyone can point out any statement made in regards to this.
As far as I've read it doesn't appear to be anything written down about it - the best evidence from my perspective is a comparison of power in modern depictions of his father and his previous abilities with the Odin Power - as well as the father retaining seemingly all of his power (namely why he can hold Surtur in this perpetual loop of battle).
Maybe its special to odin, or maybe there is something we both are missing about the explanation of Destroyer's power. I have not seen it , and i am pretty sure there is no such explanation in his solo issue, but outside that i am not too sure. But so far, i am more inclined to agree here too.
I'm a big fan of agreeing so awesome :)
I went back to check and well he did ,seemed to have missed that one too. Then we have the designate/ spirit of jewel one shot Magi, she really doesnt like Magi it seems.
Well for someone that was the number one Thor fan girl - she did have a great dislike of all of them.
I am still hesitant to agree, but since i have no hard and fast proof otherwise and your explanation is pretty reasonable, i have no other option but to agree :) Well i dont think he has , but with he has the speed of SA Superman which should let him blitz if he wanted to.
Feel free to disagree, it's all up to interpretation.
I have actually seen Odin/ Watcher together peer into future events, both of whom saw Thor going evil and foresaw The Reigning, in Mighty Thor 539 (which is about 6 issues beforeThor even got Odin force in The Mighty Thor 545) Thats the only instance that i have saved, but i am quite certain it has happened a couple of times before.
The Watcher also sports a similar level of cosmic awareness / omniscience - so that is a nice little example of that.
Look at his express words "Let it end thy miserable existence forever.. " so could be he was trying to kill Desak or trying to erase out of his existence. Probably the formal, but lack of actual instance where he's done so makes it hard to take that as a reason why he should win. Merging people and erasing them from existence are 2 different things. Also when did he merge Jake Olsen, i though he fought and killed him in 569 which was one reason he went all evil because of that, I understood that as being him kill the human part of him.
That time Thor is more so referring to using it to blast him out of existence - in the sense of vaporizing him. That was a Thor with a lot less knowledge on his power anyhow. I figure if your magically fusing beings into one - that tells me you could just easily split their minds up all sorts of ways - namely why Thor had a measure of Identity crisis due to Odin's playing his mind. But as mentioned before, Zeus and Odin and assumingly other skyfathers don't seem to require much effort to create humans - soul and all - the idea they could just as easily wipe them from existence doesn't seem all that far fetched - especially given Odin (and Thor when he had his powers) is a reality warper I thought the Enchantress killed him - can't remember though.
@venomoushatred1001: Even if he could, he can't catch Superboy-Prime. Composite Superman is about 5 times faster than Silver Age Superman, who almost ended the universe with his speed.
@venomoushatred1001: Even if he could, he can't catch Superboy-Prime. Composite Superman is about 5 times faster than Silver Age Superman, who almost ended the universe with his speed.
He doesn't need to. RKT is an abstract level being. Plus he can control time with a thought. Composite Supes has no chance.
@venomoushatred1001: Just saying, CS also has time manipulation. And IIRC, (which I may not) it's not in Thor's character to just warp people out of existence. He likes fighting.
Not familiar with Composite Superman save for what I've read about the character. I suppose the question may be, do people feel that Composite Superman can beat Odin? If not, I'd say Rune King Thor would be the logical choice. If not, Rune King Thor loses.
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