Cole Macgrath & Starkiller vs Alex Mercer & James Heller

@leonkarlen123: Dude it's laser. Superheated laser that easily tears through metal. Prototypes have strength and all but in the end they're fighting against a super heated intensely hot energy blade. That lightsaber would cut through anything with ease. Prototypes included.

@undinehuntertitan: Meh.. It struggles to go through solid steel doors and the shield is not just metal really, it bounces of rockets with ease making it harder than metal

@leonkarlen123: Do remember its a tech from the future. Where everything should be improved and better than modern things. So those 'steel' doors aren't probably steel. I'm not a star wars fan but I at least acknowledge that a lightsaber could cut through almost anything that's not magical.

Or are you saying the lightsaber would break upon contact with James or Alex? Because that's impossible.

@undinehuntertitan: Im not :)

A morals off Cole? Pff.

Lightning Storm would vaporized both before they react. That thing took out/stunned Beast multiple times. The same being that crossed USA fighting the army, the same being that took a nuke to the head and was fully reformed seconds/minutes later.

With Starkiller backing them up, this is a stomp really. They have much faster reaction times and neither the prototypes would be able to dodge a top-down attack coming at them virtually instantaneously, even if they had prior knowledge.

The only way I can give the advantage to the prototypes is if the fight is less than 30m, which pretty much puts Cole and Starkiller on the prototypes' effective range (so they can just launch an long-range attack right away). But since OP didnt leave any distances, I have to assume something that isnt completely biased towards the prototypes (since 30 less meters is pretty much melee range for them; while 100-200 would be much more balanced).

@cjdavis103:

1. he was amped by the final charge up

2. he started flying well before he was in range of the beast

3. what you are describeing hapened in the evil end and we can see him leacjjing power from the beast this time it was all him

4. the energy attacks where all Cole as we can see the colar diferance

• Cole had attained all of the Blast Cores, but that didn't grant him a limitless supply of energy and only made him strong enough so he could properly use the RFI.
• No he didn't, John's gravitational aura literally forced Cole up into the air.
• There was no way Cole had obtained a limitless supply of energy and there's no evidence supporting this theory, instead Cole's body automatically absorbed the RF energy from John.
• I know they were, but John was the self-sustaining energy source and Cole's body was attached to all of the emissions from the Beast allowing him to spam so much attacks.

so? just because it was used as such doesnt mean it is not vaild Venome has a weakness to sound attacks and sound attacks are used as a plot device to disable him but we still use that as a vaild way to bring him down krypdonite is a complete plot device for weaking kryptoniens and yet it is a vaild way to bring them down so unless you can provide a counter example then it stands as an exploitable weakness which just so hapenes to be his main power

No, the Prototypes have both demonstrated the durability to handle most of what Cole could dish out and that's why we're not relying on a plot device in order to downplay Mercer especially since the instance was only showcased then and furthermore Mercer had shown no fragility to electricity. Not to mention, Cole requires at least three bolts to knock out a regular human (four to kill one) so based off of Cole's actual showings, the Prototypes have shrugged off almost everything than Cole's attacks omit.

In order to stick a weakness onto a character, they'd need to have showcased proper frailty to the source at least twice along with a confirmation (not a mere implication) of the character being susceptible to the source and not a once off instance at one of the earliest stages of that character's full progression. Besides, Mercer's biomass had consistently evolved and increased his resistant durability throughout the rest of the first and second game.

hmmmm they can survive being frozen solid now? or how about being nuked by an ion storm? or send flying by an Ion vortex in fact a suprise pulse blast traps them in the air where cole rains death on him and considering a taser can afect them Coles powers are overkill

Ionic Freeze would be leaped over with ease, however I don't see what's stopping them from breaking out the second if they were caught inside of it as the ice isn't necessarily durable.

Ionic Storm would be effective but it requires focusing onto a singular area and the targets it had hit aren't comparably as fast to Mercer in the slightest, let alone Heller. While it may be lightning speed, it could be easily aim-dodged.

Ionic Vortex would probably be the most effective of Cole's abilities and would hardly be evaded, but it's best destructive showings has only destroyed cars and there's no evidence of it being capable of accomplishing anything further (the same applies to the Ionic Storm). It couldn't hope to bust a tank, a feat Heller could accomplish using only his bare fists.

no my main argument is the fact that the have low electracal defense feats! whither it was a plot device or not the fact remains Alex was floored by a hand held taser and all of Coles powers are infinatly more powerful then said taser apply some logic to that if your are weak to a power then square up against someone who's primary power is that then things do not go well for you exspeecaily when you have to deal with anouther high tier oponet who can hold you off by himself

Again, you cannot consider it a true weakness because:

• It occurred once,and happened only to Mercer.
• It wasn't stated, confirmed, nor repeated, only implied.
• The game had intentionally restricted you against Cross.
• It was a very early stage of the game, and Mercer's resistance had evolved throughout.
• Mercer has shrugged off better than what Cole regularly dishes out, and his durability showings far exceed what Cole's Ionic Powers have done at best.

@undinehuntertitan

Dual shields? Why they're just biomass and shields. Even then Cole has other homing attacks that gets around shields. It's been awhile since I last played Prototype 2 but I have to ask, does James also hunker down if he takes damage while blocking with his shield like Alex?

Heller's shields are large enough to defend him from attacks coming from all directions, so Cole isn't getting around anybody. Heller can stay upright while blocking while the shields exert counteractive spikes to impale the enemy while he/she lands a hit and Cole's attacks aren't close to being strong enough to bypass them in the first place.

I really disagree with ionics not outright maiming them. They can't recover from it especially since Starkiller is here. Not to mention while they're still disoriented from being caught in a vortex or freeze, they will be in a vulnerable position for Cole to freeze and lightning storm, or just outright rip apart with an infinite combo.

The Prototypes have recovered from far worse than the amount of destructibility Cole's Ionic Powers have demonstrated, and they'd be labelled truck-buster at best. The Ionic Freeze is too easy to evade and the only ability that could definitely swoop up the Prototypes is the Ionic Vortex but it's easily recoverable from what it has actually displayed. Lastly, where's your evidence for this "infinite combo"?

You know if one does remove any logic restricting Cole, his lightning was enough to tear up force fields. His lightning storm is homing in multi directions. Besides, there is no actual feat of Alex or James blocking lightning. The density thing and lacking output is good for the argument 'it will not damage Alex or James' but there's still the part where they get stunned when it goes through their body to get grounded while repelling cellular regeneration and any attempts of movements.

I do agree that the Ionic Storm could deal a moderate amount of damage the Prototypes but i'm inclined to stand by the idea that it could be aim-dodged due to the fact the only multi-directional instance of it was hitched from a (possibly unofficial) comic where Cole had hit several standing soldiers.

It had never hit anyone on Mercer or Heller's speed caliber and there's no evidence suggesting it could. It's primal use is for clearing large areas of enemies and/or large enemies, and I cannot recall a single instance where it has hit a mobile target that possesses a notable degree of super-speed.

Unfortunately Cole's basic lightning bolts have failed to put down regular humans unless he hits them at least three times as opposed to how realistic lightning would do, so comparing Cole's abilities as if they're directly replicated from the attributes of real-world lightning is a moot point and instead we focus on what Cole has actually done and/or shown the ability to do.

Again I have to disagree. Strength is no use when one cannot use it. Attack Speed pretty much counters Speed. Durability is nothing when stuck in an infinite combo. So are intelligence, skill, stamina, regeneration and any other stats that Alex or James has. After all, if they're stunned even for a bit they can be lethally damaged.

• I fail to grasp why you're ignoring strength, a viable advantage here.
• Alex & Heller fight at a faster, and a more mobile criteria than Cole.
• Again, what's this unbeatable "infinite combo" and how would it apply if all of Cole's attacks haven't demonstrated the ability to significantly damage the Prototypes?

You know I recall you using The Beast being made out of Ray Sphere Energy and that's why he was beaten. That's scientific logic, so if we disregard every logic ever made in this debate, then that still makes Cole's homing lightning fast lightning storm a city buster. Or at least something that took a city durable monster.

No, you cannot make that comparison at all as I had based my analysis off of the information from the games themselves. John's body is a living Ray Sphere, Cole's attacks come from the energy that obliterated John to atoms so that's why he could significantly damage the Beast and that's a valid argument from an in game point of view as ray spheres/conduits don't exist in the real-world.

Instead, you factored the real-world effects of electricity on the human body and applied them to a completely different scientifically impossible fictional character. There's a complete difference, and mixing the two is a faulty comparison by default.

See this is why I think Starkiller and Cole could beat them with ease.

http://outskirtsbattledomewiki.com/index.php/history/8-character-profiles/309-character-profile-galen-marek

He's almost light speed in terms of power scaling and has lightning reaction feats... He will speed blitz Alex and James before they can blink. That is why I seriously think that even if Beast Cole and the prototype army were to join here, Starkiller would still be able to fight them to toe to toe.

I wouldn't rely on the OBD as official source information as I had only recently noticed the inexplicable amount of bias they present in those character profiles. For instance, they only had Goku as an island-buster (when there's feats and confirmations labeling him as a legitimate planet-buster), yet Wonder Woman as a planet-buster (when there's seemingly no feats suggesting she's close to that level).

Even if their analysis is truth then i'd have to concede to Starkiller defeating the Prototypes but there still hasn't been anything suggesting Cole could severely damage either of them but everything has been showcased as to why the Prototypes trump Cole by actual feats instead of real-world scientific logic and ignoring what Cole has actually accomplished.

Yeah, except for once they're stuck in a combo, they're dead. That's not counting Starkiller the blitzer here.

If you're going to claim that this "combo" will end the Prototypes, you'll need legitimate showings and evidence of Cole dealing enough damage to surpass what the Prototypes have endured. As it's been stated before, Cole is lacking when it comes to the actual showings and i'll analyze his on screen abilities and compare them to if the Prototypes could shrug off, endure, or deflect his attacks:

• Bolts: Require at least three to knock out a regular human, and there's no showings suggesting they could harm the Prototypes at all - Shrugged Off.
• Grenades: Inadequate compared to the military grenades that only succeed in knocking the Prototypes off of their feat along with a minimal amount of harm - Shrugged Off.
• Blasts: Mainly effective on regular-sized enemies, but fail to knock back heavy opponents and the Prototypes would certainly fall under that category (as they cause massive shockwaves by landing on the ground) - Shrugged Off.
• Rockets: Roughly matches the destruction of a military grenade, hardly comparable to a RPG shells that the Prototypes soak on a regular basis but do get knocked off of their feet while receiving a small amount of damage - Endured/Deflected.
• Ionic Powers: Certainly capable of dealing a moderate amount of harm to the Prototypes, only one of them is unavoidable but is easily recoverable by the Prototypes - Endured/Healed.

Although there are different types of the certain abilities listed above, they produce the same effect for the most part. Cole's combo of these couldn't achieve anything more than a significant damage to the Prototypes and certainly since he'll need to recharge allowing time to swipe him with the whip-fist.

There's no substantial evidence of Cole being capable of gaining a safe-distance, keeping them off, or damaging them significantly unless you relied on science conjecture (as opposed to actual feats), but there's legitimate evidence of the Prototypes being able to soak basically everything of what Cole could dish out, overwhelm and beat Cole with a single blow. At the end of the day, Feats > Science and while the arguments supporting Cole are decent in their own aspects, the arguments for the Prototypes will always hold more weight.

In terms of badass; team 1 (heller stinks) but in a battle, team 2 curbstomps

@pope052:

As always its fun debating with you Pope. You fight with words and reason. Anyway I'll split off your arguments into sentences so I can respond to them better and not make mountainous arguments since they just keep increasing while repeating the same stuff

Firstly you have your argument that lightning is not a weakness to Alex. Specially since it was only showcased once

I have to disagree. There was a section in Prototype 2 with James finding a restrained infected tentacle. There was also a blackwatch officer restraining it with an electric prod and giant braces. Only when James arrived did it start panicking and tried to get loose. That could count as a SECOND time for prototype's weakness (I'll try finding that cutscene)But if you do refuse to acknowledge that then if Alex never had that as a weakness, that means he NEVER ADAPTED to it. If it was just PIS bullshit then it never happend to Alex. He never dealt with it and thus he still does not know how to deal with electricity. Or simply put Cross never managed to hit some infected that needs to run up to him to attack with a huge baton. Really, your pick.

PIS bullcrap - Never dealt with it, it's completely foreign and never adapted to it

Accept Cross' baton relevance - He is a bit more resistant now. But Cole still has more voltage and Alex still flesh

Infinite Combo argument and your claims that it doesn't exist

Like I said, one attack from Cole would barely damage Alex, at least the basic ones. But they are enough to stun him. He might be flesh and it might deal less damage, in the end those lightning would go flow through Alex's body. He has nerves, he has the web of intrigue, so he will be affected. Of course its a bit of a problem tagging Alex, but it's less of a problem the closer Alex is. The shockwave would be able to electrocute him, not knock him back fully (Despite the fact that he flies weightlessly in the air by gushing out blood so you claim him to be heavier than four cars). It would still disorient him enough to lose footing and that's where he enters the border of life and death. All cole's attacks stun. He regenerated energy if he hits someone with his basic attack. If Alex gets hit two times in a row he'll be stunned in place and that pretty much spells it for Alex. James I'll leave to Starkiller

That's where my infinite combo comes in. Alex won't be able to move, regenerate or get out once he's stunned or frozen in place. Sure the damage would be minimal and at first he'll laugh it off, but then he'll realize he can't heal through it nor can he get out. And cole can just keep that up or finish him with a storm. That's where infinite combo comes from

Cryokinesis

All Alex and James knows about Cole is his lightning the very first of the battle. He has lightning on his veins, and body, not ice. The moment Cole surprises with an ice attack they'll be surprised. They didn't know Cole had that so they won't expect it. Not to mention Ionic Storm looks more like its just a bunch of ice spikes heading towards Alex, like his graveyard spike only more pathethic and predictable. But he won't know he can get frozen by it. There are no minions around him or infected to get hit by the attack, and Cole can control who gets frozen. At best he'll probably just shrug off the icicles that comes out laughing, then he'll realize he's freezing. He'll be shocked at the attack for sure but then he'll recover enough to either dodge or block the spikes. He won't even expect the freezing air that will freeze him in place. That's an ionic that will leave him locked there

Ionic VortexFunny, can't destroy buildings you say? Would that apply to Alex's devastators too? Yes I know his devastators can destroy certain buildings like hives and m,ilitary bases. So can Cole. He can destroy certain warehouses on a district which are breakable so it should be belieavable that he can destroy buildings too. The reason why I think Alex or James won't get out is because it electrocutes everything caught inside. So they'll be stunned and flying around, with the electricity unable to get grounded so it stays with them. that is why they can't recover from that. Not to mention that fight with Greene, Alex was dealing with either chemical or kinetic attacks. Not sure about the green orbs but they don't have what the ionic vortex has, LIGHTNING

Shields Mass

Has the flesh ever dealt with lightning in game or cutscene? Or cryokinesis? Not to mention while either Alex and James are blocking and running at Cole against his bolts, Starkiller can pick up one of them and toss them to the other. Would be surprising too. Also, not sure they dealt with lightsabers before.

Prototype has no logic, Infamous is limited and weak

Key point, the Ray Sphere did obliterate John. But its to give him more powers. Regardless of karma, he gets it anyway. Still, then why is Cole stomping around the military so easily in the comics? If his lightning was only effective against other conduits why are they enough to rocket one shot helicopters, one hit kill or ko military soldiers? And the ice titans are made of ice and not through the ray sphere, but through forced conduit genes. They're not the same as conduits, well they are, but they did not directly get the ray sphere energy.

Then again really, your argument for John is, as you said before, was also an assumption. So really, we can't say anything to that. But I will say Cole's lightning storm is powerful enough to take down Alex and James to the point of low health and still have them get disoriented.

OBD BIAS

Oh yes heard of that. Really, they can be so bias with some sources. But they do have truthful information. And with the speed I've seen from Star Wars on the old shows and the games, I'll say Starkiller can easily curbstomp Alex, cole and James. By the way did I mention Starkiller could obliterate everything around him in a shockwave? At the worst scenario he can just obliterate Cole before they can take advantage of him. Which should surprise Alex and James enough to make them think melee isn't an option.

Still, I can't make proper debates like Natsu vs Misaka there.

Cole cannot oneshot civilians

Let me show you some scans. Is that still not oneshotting regular people? Not to mention he can just fry Alex's insides. These are the First Sons after all. A group a hundred years ahead of current time, proven in cutscene by John.

Gallery

• Bolts: Require at least three to knock out a regular human, and there's no showings suggesting they could harm the Prototypes at all - Shrugged Off.

• Grenades: Inadequate compared to the military grenades that only succeed in knocking the Prototypes off of their feat along with a minimal amount of harm - Shrugged Off.
• Blasts: Mainly effective on regular-sized enemies, but fail to knock back heavy opponents and the Prototypes would certainly fall under that category (as they cause massive shockwaves by landing on the ground) - Shrugged Off.
• Rockets: Roughly matches the destruction of a military grenade, hardly comparable to a RPG shells that the Prototypes soak on a regular basis but do get knocked off of their feet while receiving a small amount of damage - Endured/Deflected.
• Ionic Powers: Certainly capable of dealing a moderate amount of harm to the Prototypes, only one of them is unavoidable but is easily recoverable by the Prototypes - Endured/Healed.

Dude now that's just downplaying. Bolts are enough to make civilians fall down in one shot if you're evil, if good Cole seemed to deal less damage to civilians on purpose. Reasonable too. Grenades are the same, they can break walls and damage giant mutants and destroy buildings if shot well. The rockets are enough to one shot helicopters, which I see in Prototype can't even manage.

Ionic Powers downplayed too. The ionic storm which are several lightning bolts from the sky should be enough to deal very severe damage. Ionic Vortex and Freeze would seriously surprise James and Alex to the point that they will be caught in it. After all, they never knew Cole can do that. With Starkiller as backup, they'll be finished

Also saw your post about Cole tagging those standing soldiers with his lightning storm. They weren't. They were running towards and away from him shooting at different points. All while he was being shot he summoned the lightning storm to hit all of them accurately. That's not really aim dodgeable when it locks on the biggest threat in the area.

Ultimately, what seals the deal is Starkiller. At the point that Cole is attacked in melee by James or Alex, Starkiller will probably use either more lightning or simply 'grab James or Alex'. By the way he's been shown to grab two people at once. One target for one hand. Cole can just infinite combo them even further, and that one's guaranteed.

Seriously, Alex and James can't win this. Even if Cole joins them, Starkiller can just kill them. He did bring down a spaceship from orbit.

Team Prototype takes this with difficulty from Starkiller

Cole MacGrath and Starkiller should have this...

@lord_of_hell: With the recent buff that placed Cole on supersonic speed? Cole and Starkiller is guaranteed to win this now

Cole and Starkiller Curbstomps. Mismatch

Why would you bump this?

Team Prototype.

Agreed. Only Prototype Retards is dumb

@jashro44 lock this. Team 1 wins in a curbstomp

@slade_fan_4life: Don't use the word "retard" in a derogatory term.