An epic twist on the classic match up: Goku vs Superman. The rivalry of our generation, ramped up even further here today. So, without further ado, let's get to introducing...
Team Superman!
Represented by The-Seeffiss17.
Superboy Prime: Boy Prime only.
Cyborg Superman: Composite bodies. Green and Yellow power ring feats are applicable.
Amazo: Pre-52. Composite bodies. Powers from the original 7 + Firestorm, Black Lightning, and Black Canary.
Versus!!!
Team Dragonball Super!
Represented by Emperorthanos.
Beerus: Anime and manga feats.
Goku: Access to Ssj Blue. Anime and manga feats.
Da Rules:
Morals on/ in character.
Teamwork on (not perfect team work, but to where the teams won't fight each other).
Win by death/ incap./ KO.
Fight on a indestructible earth, no civilians. Combatants cannot leave the planet (to prevent sun dipping, going to King Kai's, etc.)
Don't forget to tag when done. Both of you have done classic CaV's in the past, and I'll look forward to it. Most importantly, beerus vs SBP looks to be interesting choice.
The argument of Comics vs Manga, DC vs Dragonball, Superman vs Goku, has raged on since the dawn of comicbook/ anime forums. Presumably it will continue to rage for as long as I will be using said forums. As a debater of fictional characters and fan of both franchises it seems almost taboo to not contribute to this legendary debate in some way. Hopefully me and my contemporary can do these characters, the fans, and this debate justice. And perhaps our take on things will breath some new life into it. With that said, let's take a look at who's representing The Man of Steel shall we?
Kal-El // AKA // Superboy Prime
Character Info.
Superboy-Prime is from a parallel Earth called Earth-Prime that had no super-heroes. There, Superman and the other comic superheroes were fictional characters only seen in comic books. The Earth-Prime universe was erased during Crisis on Infinite Earths and Superboy-Prime ended up in a "paradise" dimension where during that time, he found himself unable to let go of his former life and his destiny as Earth's greatest hero.
Over time, his convictions and morals become twisted and warped, and he came to believe that Earth-Prime is the only proper Earth and that he, Superboy-Prime, was the only one worthy of the mantle of Superboy. Prime firmly believes that becoming Superman is his calling despite the fact that he has become a psychotic and murderous villain. His overwhelming strength, speed, and ruthlessness make him one of the most dangerous foes in the DC Universe.
Kryptonian Physiology
Being an alternate Superman his powers originate from his Kryptonian physiology. Under the effects of a yellow sun Superboy Prime gains all of Superman’s powers verbatim. However, his powers may be the same in style to Superman’s, but in magnitude they are completely different. All of Prime’s powers are amplified beyond Superman’s ten fold or more. Just incase you are unfamiliar with the man of steels abilities, here you go:
Super Strength
Super Speed
Flight
Invulnerability
Enhanced Healing
Heat Vision
Frost Breath
Enhanced Senses
That’s most of what’s relevant in terms of combative powers.
Because of the potency of these powers Prime will be able to punch a hole in your team with raw, unrestrained might. Physically Superboy Prime is the strongest brick here and has superluminal speeds to back him up. Just to give you a quick glimpse into what Superboy P is packing, I’ll give you this.
Gallery
During Sinestro Corpse War Superboy Prime can be seen rearranging a collection of planets at "High Speeds". Of course we will get into striking power and combative implications later on. Even still you can't negate the legitimacy of this feat. This low end feat alone puts Superboy comfortably beyond any form of strength seen in the Dragonball Super to my knowledge. Feel free to prove me wrong... If you can ;).
Hank Henshaw // AKA // Cyborg Superman
Character Info.
Hank Henshaw first appeared as a crew member on board the doomed NASA space shuttle Excalibur in Superman #42, and Henshaw and the other crew members were next seen in Adventures of Superman #465.
In a pastiche of the origin of the Fantastic Four, Hank and the other three members of the Excalibur crew, including his wife Terri, are part of a radiation experiment designed by LexCorp that is affected by solar flare, causing their shuttle to crash.As a result of their radiation exposure, the human bodies of two crew members were destroyed. However, their minds survived and they were able to construct new bodies out of cosmic radiation and bits of earth and wreckage from the shuttle, respectively. Initially, Henshaw and his wife suffer no ill effects from the radiation (though Hank's hair turns white), and the crew travels to Metropolis. in the hopes of using LexCorp facilities to cure their mutated crew mates. During a brief battle with Superman, the crew member now composed of radiation becomes unhinged and flies into the sun, thereby destroying himself. By this time, Henshaw's body has started to rapidly decay while his wife is beginning to phase into an alternate dimension. With Superman's help, Henshaw is able to use the LexCorp facilities to save Terri. The remaining member of the shuttle crew commits suicide using an MRI booth to tear apart the metallic components of his body.
Kryptonian/ Robotic physiology
Due to Hank’s unique Cybernetic/ Kryptonian body he wields all the same powers of any other Kryptonian, on top of the power obtained from his cybernetics and power rings that he has collected.
Same powers listed above
Technopathy
Cybernetic Self-Repairing
Energy Manipulation/ Projection
Construct Creation
While Hank isn't quite as overpowering as Superboy Prime, he makes up for his short comings with versatility. His wide array of abilities, coupled with the raw capability of a Kryptonian makes him a deadly adversary.
Amazo // The Ultimate Android
He doesn’t have a real name, so it kind of throws off my layout… Haha.
Background Info.
Power-set for this battle
As a super copycat Amazo's power-set is rather diverse.
Superman: Super – Strength, speed, and durability. Heat vision, frost breath, enhanced senses, healing factor, and flight.
Wonder Woman: Super – Strength, speed, and durability. Flight and lasso of truth.
Batman: Tactical genius, martial arts mastery, and Batman’s gadgets.
The Flash (Barry Allen): Super speed and phasing.
Green Lantern’s Power Ring: Super Stats. Construct creation, energy manipulation/ projection.
Aquaman: Super stats and telepathy.
The Martian Manhunter: Super stats, telepathy, telekinesis, intangibility, invisibility, shape shifting, regeneration, and Martian Vision.
Firestorm: Energy manipulation/ projection, thermokinesis, matter manipulation, transmutation, and molecule manipulation.
Black Lightning: Electrokinesis.
Black Canary: Martial arts techniques and the Canary Cry.
Unfortunately Amazo hasn’t abused the full scope of his powers in combat (probably for plot reasons, because with this power set he’d easily solo the JLA). As such I will only debate using the ones he has. While he hasn’t reached his full potential, he is a legitimate teambuster, and certainly not one to sleep on. Here’s a scan to show Amazo employing various powers at once, to great effect.
Employs: Canary Cry, Firestorm's energy attack, Power Ring beam, and Heat Vision at once.
So as you can see, Amazo may not use ALL the powers he has at his disposal, he is no stranger to using multiple in abilities tandem. The sheer amount of powers shown in this scan (Canary Cry, energy, Power Ring beam, and Heat Vision) plus his physicals makes him more diverse than anyone on your roster.
To push the superiority point even further let’s look at Justice League #24.
After being blind-sided and tackled by Wonder Woman (in an attempt to push him through a portal) Amazo quickly recuperates, stone walling Wonder Woman. She is completely unable to budge him at all. This is because “He’s stronger than me and Clark put together” (bottom left panel). As you can see, Amazo doesn’t just have the powers of each character individually, he has the strength, speed, and durability of these characters combined. More physical strength than Superman and Wonder Woman combined is certainly above the strength tier DBS characters operate on.
The Battle at First Glance
Advantages in a nutshell.
> Physicals
My team should hold a sound advantage here. Each of my possessing strength in excess to that of Superman should be nothing to scoff at. In both Amazo and Prime’s cases, being greatly in excess. Both have taken down Superman family and Co. in a pure brawl.
> Speed
Trust me, I’m more than aware than Dragonball characters are renowned for their combative speed. I would even argue that generally it is Dragonball’s main advantage in a debate. Unfortunately for the DBS duo, they have met their match. Both of my Supermen have full on blitzed Green Lanterns and Kryptonians, both notorious for FTL perception. Better even still is Amazo, who possesses the speed of Barry Allen. I don’t think anyone would argue that Goku or Beerus have gone at greater speeds than the Flash, and that gives me the edge here.
> Firepower
Energy Projection, yet another category in which DB is accustomed to holding a distinct advantage in. And yet another they have been outdone in. My team holds both versatility and raw power in it’s ranged arsenal. Sonic attacks, heat, electricity, projectile constructs, frost breath, and pure energy will all be coming your way. Now you may argue that your teams planet busting surpasses the offense of my team. I will give you this as a preemptive rebuttal.
Just imagine Superboy Primes...
> Skills/ tactics
Well look at that, another category DB holds dear that the Supermen have outdone them in. My team has the greatest strategic mind in this battle… Batman. Amazo has the combative skills and tactics of Batman, Black Canary, and Wonder Woman combined. Perhaps this doesn’t make up for the whole team, but whomever Amazo faces will be hopelessly out-skilled.
> Versatility
Honestly there isn’t much argument here. Dragonball characters stopped using their more diverse powers long ago, and purely rely on physical combat and light shows. Amazo alone has greater breadth of powers, and Hank is quite diverse as well.
Match-up breakdown
Out of your members I would say Goku is the most likely to strike first. Beerus generally is very nonchalant about combat. Whether Goku goes for bullrush/ blitz or just starts whizzing around creating afterimages, he will be the first to make a move on your side. My entire team will be able to react, but Amazo having the fastest traverse speed (Flash powers) will intercepts and take him on. Seeing that these guys can keep up with a SSJG Blue, he will undoubtably get excited to face a mother opponent and join the fray. Leaving the fight in two parts:
Amazo vs Goku
Hank Henshaw and Superboy Prime vs Beerus
This seems like a logical breakdown from a debate standpoint as well. Since Beerus is your strongest member 2v1 makes sense to me.
Having established my team, their advantages, and set up the rest of the debates match-ups, I'm passing things over to you brother. @emperorthanos. BTW: I may edit for grammatical mistakes later today/ tomorrow, but the bulk of the info will remain the same.
Eh. Not to be a downer, but doesn't this fall under the "No Anime vs Comics" battles rule? If it does, probably shouldn't continue. If it doesn't, T4V.
Eh. Not to be a downer, but doesn't this fall under the "No Anime vs Comics" battles rule? If it does, probably shouldn't continue. If it doesn't, T4V.
Nah, that's only for regular battles. CaV's are an exception.
Once the fight is determined make a thread and post a link in here to it as well KEEP TO THE BATTLE FORUM RULES.
And.
Dragonball is RESTRICTED
Characters from the Dragonball franchise (Dragonball, DBZ, Super, GT, and any other part of the franchise) may only fight with / against characters that originate in Anime / Manga. Anything else will be locked.
Dragonball characters MAY NOT fight characters that get an anime / manga adaptation after first appearing in another media format. Example:
Video game characters that later appear in a manga (ex. Metroid)
Comic book characters that get an adaptation (ex. Spider-Man manga, X-Men anime, Blade anime)
Movie / TV shows that get an adaptation (ex. The Matrix to the Animatrix)
But the CAV rules suck anyways. I mean, no re-doing already done battles? On a CAV? What?
Once the fight is determined make a thread and post a link in here to it as well KEEP TO THE BATTLE FORUM RULES.
And.
Dragonball is RESTRICTED
Characters from the Dragonball franchise (Dragonball, DBZ, Super, GT, and any other part of the franchise) may only fight with / against characters that originate in Anime / Manga. Anything else will be locked.
Dragonball characters MAY NOT fight characters that get an anime / manga adaptation after first appearing in another media format. Example:
Video game characters that later appear in a manga (ex. Metroid)
Comic book characters that get an adaptation (ex. Spider-Man manga, X-Men anime, Blade anime)
Movie / TV shows that get an adaptation (ex. The Matrix to the Animatrix)
But the CAV rules suck anyways. I mean, no re-doing already done battles? On a CAV? What?
@yuri_boyka: @omri: @darth_wayne: This is a CAV. If you don't know what that is, it's pinned on the battle forums. This is a debate between me and ET, not an open discussion.
And DBZ is allowed in CaVs.
EDIT: could all of you delete your posts to refrain from cluttering/ derailing. Thanks.
Goku is the main protagonist of the Dragon Ball metaseries created by Akira Toriyama. He is the adoptive grandson of Grandpa Gohan, the son of Bardock and Gine, the husband of Chi-Chi, the father of Gohan and Goten, the grandfather of Pan, and later the great-great-grandfather of Goku Jr. Cheerful, courageous and also a bit naive, Goku is a Saiyan originally sent to Earth as an infant with the mission to destroy it. However, an accident alters his memory, causing him to grow up pure-hearted and later become Earth's greatest defender, as well as the informal leader of the Z Fighters.Throughout his life, he trains hard and strives to be the greatest warrior possible, while at the same time using his amazing strength and skills to uphold peace.
Powers and abilities
Goku's power, like every other character in DBZ comes from his ki energy. He can use it to amplify his own abilties or use to as blasts. Through transformation he can increase the amount of Ki has. After achiving the SSG transformation Goku can now tap into God Ki whihc is something used by gods in DB universe.
List of his abilities:
Super Strength
Super Speed
Super Durability
Super Senses
Flight
Teleportation
Telepathy
Telekinesis
Transformation
Ki Manipulation
Genius in battle.
Expert Martial artist.
Strength
Goku's is extremely strong. Goku's punches are hard enough to destroy planets. He has matched people like Beerus and Frieza who are both physically strong enough to destroy planets.
Speed
Goku has FTL travel speed and MFTL combat speed. He is so fast that even people like King Kai and Kami who can keep track of FTL objects are unable to see him when he fights.
Durability
Goku is extremely durable, he has tanked punches from people with planetary strength and has taken blast from people who can destroy solar systems with ease.
Energy Manipulation
Goku's main source of power, he uses energy to amplify his physical abilities as well as to use it to create blasts capable of wiping planets with ease.
Beerus
Bio
Beerus, also known as the God of Destruction Beerus or Beerus the Destroyer, is the God of Destruction within Universe 7 and, as such, his occupation is to maintain balance by destroying planets. Beerus' twin brother is Champa, the God of Destruction of Universe 6. Beerus was seen in the dbz universe when he was looking for something called the super saiyan god. This put him in the path of Goku and the rest of the warriors on earth which he disposed with ease. It wasn't until Goku completed the ritual to become Super Saiyan god, did we see Beerus really fight. Though we are yet to see his full powers.
Powers and abilities
Beerus' power comes from god ki just like Goku's. He can use it to amplify his own abilties or use to as blasts. He can basically do the same thing Goku does but with more power.
List of his abilities:
Super Strength
Super Speed
Super Durability
Super Senses
Flight
Telepathy
Telekinesis
Transformation
Ki Manipulation
Energy Nullification
Cloning
Expert Martial artist.
Strength
Beerus's is incredibly strong. He can destroy planets by just tapping his finger on a table and this is just at 1%. Ones he gets serious just shockwaves of his punches destroy planets and can be felt even past the universe.
Speed
Beerus has both MFTL travel speed and reaction speed. He can cross galaxies in minutes.
Durability
Beerus is extremely durable. He has taken planetary attacks with ease.
Energy Manipulation
Beerus' energy manipulation is only a galaxy possibly universal level. He can make hundreds of planet destroying attacks with ease. He can alsonulify eergy on a universal scale.
Initial counters
> Physicals
My team should hold a sound advantage here. Each of my possessing strength in excess to that of Superman should be nothing to scoff at. In both Amazo and Prime’s cases, being greatly in excess. Both have taken down Superman family and Co. in a pure brawl.
Being stronger than superman is great but not good enough here. TBH your character are probably great in lifting strength but that matters little. As striking power is far more important.
Here a a much weaker Goku Punches through a planet with almost 10th the Earths mass but 10x Earths Gravity. That would make the planet incredibly dense.
That is an impressive punch. Now there are several calculations for this. I'm not going to do one myself but if you are interested here are the links.
Bare in mind that Beerus caught one of those punches and Goku is far stronger now.
However I have a more impressive feat by Beerus. Here is taps a planet and breaks it in half
Beerus isn't even trying here. He just though the food was too oily so he destroyed half the planet.
I'm sure you have greater feats for the supermen but for this should show why my guys are stronger.
> Speed
Trust me, I’m more than aware than Dragonball characters are renowned for their combative speed. I would even argue that generally it is Dragonball’s main advantage in a debate. Unfortunately for the DBS duo, they have met their match. Both of my Supermen have full on blitzed Green Lanterns and Kryptonians, both notorious for FTL perception. Better even still is Amazo, who possesses the speed of Barry Allen. I don’t think anyone would argue that Goku or Beerus have gone at greater speeds than the Flash, and that gives me the edge here.
Most kryptonians and Green lanterns don't have ftl speed. Only the strongest ones like Hal Jordan or Superman have that kind of speed so blitzing them doesn't mean they are ftl. But it doesn't really matter. Both Goku and Beerus are mftl
Here Beerus and Champa fight
You can see them fighting from planet to planet pretty almost instantly. This is easily a ftl feat. But there is more.
Here Goku and Beerus are moving so fast they just look like balls of light.
you can also see them moving faster than the shockwaves which was fast enough the reach the far ends of the universe in seconds.
Both Beerus and Goku as massively ftl at this point. I don't think any of your characters are faster than these two. And its the biggest advantage they have here.
As for travel speed, while I believe that won't play a major part here. Beerus is extremely fast in this regard too.
Beerus live inside a nebula
He sends Whis to fetch something from another nebula in 3 minutes. But gets impatien and gets there in 2 and a half minutes. This shows that Beerus has MFTL Travel speed as well. Goku isn't to far below so he probably does as well.
Gallery
> Firepower
Energy Projection, yet another category in which DB is accustomed to holding a distinct advantage in. And yet another they have been outdone in. My team holds both versatility and raw power in it’s ranged arsenal. Sonic attacks, heat, electricity, projectile constructs, frost breath, and pure energy will all be coming your way. Now you may argue that your teams planet busting surpasses the offense of my team. I will give you this as a preemptive rebuttal.
I can't really see what that picture says but it looks impressive. However Beerus can do better.
A sleepy Beerus can destroy suns
Here just a miniature ki blast from Beerus destroys the planet.
> Skills/ tactics
> Versatility
I can concede that you have the advantage here. But that wont be enough in this battle.
Match up
Out of your members I would say Goku is the most likely to strike first. Beerus generally is very nonchalant about combat. Whether Goku goes for bullrush/ blitz or just starts whizzing around creating afterimages, he will be the first to make a move on your side. My entire team will be able to react, but Amazo having the fastest traverse speed (Flash powers) will intercepts and take him on. Seeing that these guys can keep up with a SSJG Blue, he will undoubtably get excited to face a mother opponent and join the fray. Leaving the fight in two parts:
Amazo vs Goku
Hank Henshaw and Superboy Prime vs Beerus
This seems like a logical breakdown from a debate standpoint as well. Since Beerus is your strongest member 2v1 makes sense to me.
Goku doesn't just speed blitz everyone the moment he begins especially if he has Beerus next to him who will likely be giving him orders. Beerus would probably make Goku transform first and attack them all. None of your team with the exception of Amazo will be able tor react to this. But Beerus is more likely to fight the guy who is able to react to Goku rather than the two slower ones.
But lets look at the advantage my team no matter the match up
They are a lot faster when i comes to combat speed and your team will struggle to deal with this. For all their versatility, tagging these to will not extremely difficult.
Strength wise my team is certainly equal to yours if not greater.
My teams DC is also too much for your's to handle.
Beerus can nullify all energy which basically makes any energy based attacks useless. Which will affect Cyborg supermans ring power majorly
Overall my teams mix of mftl speed and crazy ki blasts will be too much for yours too handle.
@the-seeffiss17: We know what a CaV is. I was merely wondering whether the rule applied to these. Found out they don't. So no worries, have fun doing it. And T4V.
@yuri_boyka: Ok. And I asked to delete the posts mainly to the other people who posted the entire rule set as it is rather long and is aesthetically kinda annoying.
@emperorthanos: Like I said b4 probably won't be until Friday. But I will be working on it tonight.
EDIT: I'm an idiot and didn't even realize it was Friday LOL. I was gonna do HW Thursday and this Friday................ Welp I've already procrastinated this much, might as well procrastinate some more haha. It'll be up today.
EDITTING MY EDIT: Lol... Sooooo some family stuffs happened and it's not gonna be up tonight most likely... Tomorrow for sure my man!
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