CaV: Sorin Markov (Joewell911) vs Kratos (Hypnos0929)

Strength

A good place to start. Sorin has fairly solid strength, most likely in the double digit tonnage. A good example of this is here~

He looks up to see the angels I have called down on him. They dive from the rafters. He barely has time to shield his face before they crash onto him, their graceful hands tearing at him like talons.

But he fights back, and his blows are terrible. He impales one angel with his sword and slices through the wing of another. He throws one angel to the floor, cracking the marble, and another through a column, turning the masonry to powder.

I Am Avacyn

While being swarmed, he cracks marble and throws an angle hard enough to reduce stone to dust.

When we fall, it is not from gravity, not from a weakness in my wings. We fall because he drives us down, his strength slamming us from the height of the Cathedral down to its floor.

Through its floor.

When we slam to a halt, we lie in the cellar of Thraben Cathedral, a ragged hole of marble above us. Markov's sword balances on the edge of the hole, then falls beside us, sticking point-down in the stone.

I Am Avacyn

This one is even better. He's shown pushing Avacyn, an archangel strong enough to throw around peak human mages and charge through earth with ease, through a building.

Speed

Now this one's going to be a killer here. He's subsonic in sheer travel speed, and just as good in combat speed.

His attack comes at once, almost faster than the sound reaches me.

We grapple, clamping our hands into each other's shoulders. We slam each other through pews. We lift each other up into the rafters, fragmenting the beams, and our struggle is clouded with plaster dust and feathers.

I Am Avacyn

Directly described as being almost faster than sound.

Sorin's own sword flicked out in a succession of flashes that left five of his escorts writhing on the ground, curls of black vapor billowing from deep wounds.

Promises Old and New

Here he blitzes five Vampires with his sword. To give you a scale, basic Vampires are fast enough to be at blur speed in an instant.

Yet none could even perceive Sorin.

Nahiri yanked at the landing's component flagstones, unraveling the whole structure. As it tumbled away, Sorin let go, and his momentum carried him to a wayward beam. From there he pounced to a shattered wall, and then to another beam that leaned diagonally in the air. It seemed all in the span of a heartbeat, and Nahiri could scarcely keep track of him.

Then she couldn't. He was so quick, and by the time she shifted her position in her window to follow his movements beneath her, she'd lost sight of him.

For several moments her eyes darted around furiously, scanning for any hint of movement. Then, a flash of silver, and all Nahiri could do was slide into the wall itself so that Sorin's blade bounced away with a deafening knell that rang for several moments through the stone.

Swaddled in masonry, Nahiri heard Sorin's words muffled, but venomous. "Nahiri, Nahiri, all this trouble over a turn in the Helvault. And yet you seem so at home in stone."

Then there was a loud crack, and agony shot through her side like a hot poker. The stone had been breached. She felt it, and she felt the steel in her flesh.

Campaign of Vengeance

Going FTE to Nahiri, someone who's fast enough to blitz a demon who can react to other attacks in "a fraction of a second."

As you can see, he's no joke.

Durability/General Survivability

Now I'll be the first to say, his direct durability isn't all that. He can shrug off the talons of an angel without damage to his skin~

He holds another by the neck as she attacks him with furious claws, buffeting at his face and shoulders. I will my strength to her, but I can see her essence flowing into him, dark liquid strands from her eyes and mouth into his own. She seizes into a hunch, like the rictus of a crow.

He turns to me, his leather torn and his chest plate raked open.

I Am Avacyn

Which considering the fact the same attack tore through his steel armor, isn't all that bad. But it's his regeneration, pain tolerance, and magic resistance are what really make him hard to put down.

The mouths in his eye sockets drool words. "Avacyn. I must do this."

"And I, this," I say, and I sink my spear through the gap in the monster's chest plate, so deep that the blade hits the granite of the cathedral wall on the other side.

He roars and I am blasted back. I skid to a halt. Markov clutches the spear handle and yanks out the blade, and for a moment I can see the slimy animal that must serve as his heart. Squirming lampreys flow from the wound. He drops the spear and his own sword, and they clatter alongside one another. He clutches his wound closed with one claw.

I Am Avacyn

Is impaled by Avacyn's dual headed light spear~

To the point where it hits the wall behind him. Yet he was unphased.

Avacyn—" he begins through a leech's mouth, and I slash my spear through his neck, cutting deep enough to hit bone.

He roars and leaps back, grasping his neck. Rotting ooze gushes from between his fingers, turning to sickly fungus on the flagstones.

He leaps at me, sword aimed at my heart, and the blade sparks along my spear as I parry. I pivot to strike him, but I must duck his claw, and the blow severs tendons in my wing. When I lunge to push light through him, it is met with a blast of blood magic that scatters my spell. I shriek and dive into him, breaking a column with his body, crashing him through glass and splintered wood until he is shoved against the wall of the cathedral.

The monster's head tilts and I hear bone crack against bone. His neck wound has begun to scar over.

I Am Avacyn

Here he's stabbed through the neck to the point where the spear touches his spine, yet he's still fighting and the wound is completely healed in the span of about 5 seconds.

She snarled and sent a storm of stone darts flying at him, each the size of her forearm and sharpened to a wicked point.

Sorin blasted a few of the shards to dust before they reached him, sent several more spinning away with a sweep of his sword, and grunted as three more pierced his body.....Sorin pulled the stone darts from his body one by one, the wounds closing bloodlessly. He stalked toward her.

Stone and Blood

Getting impaled by 3 foot long spears of earth and healing instantly. Note he's already previously very weakened here.

He's also great at tanking magic. See here.

The shaman howled and charged Sorin, hurling three slashes of fire that streaked through the air. The spell tore through Sorin's leather vest, which caused Sorin's skin on his arm to blacken and peel away from his bones.

Sorin hissed and thrust his will into the shaman's min

Sorin's Revelation

Three fire blasts hit him directly, but he's still fine. Just an fyi, in the card Flame Slash, it's shown being powerful enough to incinerate the durable Eldrazi.

Sorin unleashed a second torrent of death magic just as the first errant bolts completed their tortuous paths back to their source, crashing into the vampire in a rapid sequence of high hisses. Sorin fell to one knee, biting his lip in anguish, and from between the plates of his armor, dark vapor rose from unseen wounds.

Campaign of Vengeance

He's able to tank his own death magic, which as you'll see in a second is strong enough to vaporize Vampires like nothing.

"My mission never waits," I answer. I hurl the holy magic at him, and it hits him full in the chest.

The vampire is unmoved.

I Am Avacyn

He doesn't even feel holy magic.

Before we get into the big stuff, I'd like to underline his top tier skill real quick. With his age and experience, it goes without saying he'd gain some fighting prowess over the years. He chose the path of the sword, in which he's a master. Allow me to demonstrate.

He looks up to see the angels I have called down on him. They dive from the rafters. He barely has time to shield his face before they crash onto him, their graceful hands tearing at him like talons.

But he fights back, and his blows are terrible. He impales one angel with his sword and slices through the wing of another. He throws one angel to the floor, cracking the marble, and another through a column, turning the masonry to powder. He holds another by the neck as she attacks him with furious claws, buffeting at his face and shoulders. I will my strength to her, but I can see her essence flowing into him, dark liquid strands from her eyes and mouth into his own. She seizes into a hunch, like the rictus of a crow.

He turns to me, his leather torn and his chest plate raked open. My angels have weakened him, but he is far from defeated. He taps the tip of his sword on the marble. "This changes nothing, Avacyn," he says.

I call, and the last three of my twinkling-eyed angels, the final guardians of the Cathedral, encircle him. They attack him in concert with sword and claw, blows many and fierce. They close in on him, shrieking, slicing from all sides. Markov must feel the way I felt inside the Helvault, with demons' wings grazing me in the lightless void.

One by one he destroys my angels. He charges into one, slamming her through row after row of stone pews. As the next swoops at him, he hurls his sword overhand, catching the blade in her chest and impaling her. She falls in a heap. He grabs the final attacker by the shoulder, looks her in the eye, and throws her through the floor-to-ceiling stained-glass window. The wall shatters into a thousand shards. The angel arcs somewhere off the bluff.

I Am Avacyn

Fodder, even of the superhuman variety, is nothing to him. Just to give you an idea of how strong these angels are, this is a standard soldier token. 1 in Attack, 1 in toughness.

This is a fodder angel token.

4/4. Now clearly those aren't exact numbers, but it clearly illustrates how much more powerful angels are than humans. Yet Sorin was taking on a small army of them with ease.

Other feats of skill include defeating his own creation Avacyn, who was strong enough to hold entire realm under her protection for centuries, defeating Nahiri, who had thousands of years of experience fighting with blades, while in a weakened form, and foddering drones of vampires even easier than he did the angels.

Then we get to the Magic, and oh boy are we in for a treat. Sorin specializes in dark life draining magic that sucks the essence of his opponent to make himself stronger. A couple examples~

Sorin smiled and closed his pale fist in front of his face as a chuckle escaped his lips. Dark smoke issued from between his fingers like ink poured into clear water. Two warriors suddenly gasped and then shrieked as they desiccated into corpses in a matter of seconds. Their mounts flew into a panic and charged off the mountain path. The leathery cadavers of their former riders fell to the ground like dried beef as the mounts crashed through the woods.

Sorin's Revolation

Destroying soldiers and their mounts without any effort.

Then he raised his hand, and as the duelist lunged for him, Sorin curled his fingers into a fist, and suddenly, his assailant's body burst apart in a scattering of ashes.

Promises Old and New

He reduces a Vampire to ash by closing his fist.

Of course he isn't a one trick pony though. Let's look at some of his other magic.

Sorin reached out his hand and willed the two leathery corpses back from the dead. The former warriors writhed on the ground and jerked onto all fours. Their eyes blazed with unlife and their bodies were gripped with blood madness.

"Master," they hissed, their faces pulled into rictus grins filled with sharp fangs.

Sorin only had to look, and his vampire thralls moved with unholy speed. They leaped from the rocks to grapple with the great beast as it charged toward Sorin. Even as they were crushed beneath the beast's powerful feet, the vampiric fiends tore at the creature's flesh with terrifying power and savagery. The creature tried in vain to shake them off but it was only moments before the gluttonous feasting brought the enormous beast to its knees.

Sorin's Revelation

Necromancy.

Even diminished as he was, he was still more formidable than most, and besides, this time he would have help. In a burst of inky black smoke, Sorin Markov set off to discover who would dare intrude on his plane.

Another burst of smoke, and Sorin materialized in the shade of a gnarled tree whose twisting branches ended in clusters of red leaves.

Promises Old and New

Teleportation.

Sorin hissed and thrust his will into the shaman's mind. His eyes flashed with malevolence. "Kill that one." Sorin pointed to the captain who steadied his beast and prepared to charge.

The shaman wheeled about and swung his spear at his captain's head, but the captain reacted like a cat and struck the shaman's head off with one blow from his jawbone axe.

Sorin's Revelation

Mind Control.

His eyes flared white, too bright, and a great weight settled on Nahiri's shoulders, forcing her to her knees. Everything was so bright—

She looked up.

The moon. He had called down a beam of moonlight, heavy as a boulder but with no substance whatsoever, to bind her...Still, his magic was strong. The light bound not only her body, but her magic. As long as it held, she was powerless to affect anything outside its radius.

Stone and Blood

Beams of light that bind targets and disable magic.

Then Sorin raised his sword, lashed out with a beam of tarnished light, and pushed.

Nahiri flew backward and slammed against the silver surface of the Helvault. It was no longer hard and cold, but yielding. Welcoming. Pulling.

Stone and Blood

These can be projected from his sword as well.

He grimaces and suddenly locks his claws onto my upper arms, pinning me as I thrash my wings to keep us aloft. His muscles are steel, and he's bending my arms behind my back, dislocating a shoulder. I realize he was holding back before. This is his true strength.

He bites my neck, and the pain is like a thousand innocents screaming, a thousand pleas for aid, a thousand prayers I will never answer. I feel my blood pumping at my throat, drawn by suction.

------

Blood ran down his chin, and a cultist hung limply from the vampire's fists. It wasn't the first time she'd seen him feed, but he'd never looked quite so monstrous as he did at that moment. And that's what he was, a monster.

Sorin's eyes never left her, even as he began his climb. He moved like lightning, the limp cultist in his hand lolling violently as he scrambled up the twisted walls, and over to the chunks of masonry held frozen in the air. He was a cat on the hunt, swift and sure-footed. By the time Nahiri was among the unmoored, broken remnants of the manor's vaulted ceiling, Sorin was on her heels.

-------

Sorin's sword flicked out, knocking Nahiri's out into nothing. "What you took from me in Avacyn, I will take from your blood." Before a muscle could even twitch, she felt Sorin's teeth tear into her neck. All the blood in her body shifted course. Sorin was calling it to him, and it burned in her veins. He drank deeply, and Nahiri found her moment.

She leaned into the masonry at her back, and it responded to her coaxing by unfurling to either side of her. Each heart beat was torment, but she pushed through it to whisper, "I can bite back, Sorin, and I've got bigger teeth than you."

Those we're all supposed to be separate quotes, but something messed up and I don't feel like messin' with it.

All of the above is his bloodsucking. This completely drains his opponent of all life and amps him tremendously.

1. Using it to bring down Avacyn.
2. Even a fodder human can take him from near death to full health.
3. The pain it causes if you do somehow live.

Kratos is the demigod turned godkiller turned god of war turned ex-god of war turned sole olympian and titan alive. He was a spartan general and was well known amongst his people as a warrior

I copied and pasted the equipment information from Wikipedia to save time because let's face it Kratos has a lot of weaponry even in the 3 main games. I will also mostly use the 3 main games during this debate because I've played those and I'm familiar with them.

• Blades of Chaos: Powerful weapons given to Kratos by Ares after pledging his allegiance to him. They're a pair of large curved blades that are attached to Kratos' arms via chains, serving as both weapons and marks of his servitude to the God of War. He can swing them about to strike enemies and perform various combo attacks. Kratos loses them after Ares rips them from his arms during a hallucination of Kratos' family and their deaths.

• Blade of Artemis: This is a large, cumbersome blade given to Kratos by the goddess Artemis. It is quite slow, but also does more damage to enemies than the Blades of Chaos.

• Blade of the Gods: Kratos used this powerful blade to kill Ares. It formerly acted as a bridge between Athens and the Suicide Bluffs.

• Blades of Athena: Given to Kratos by Athena at the end of God of War. They replace the Blades of Chaos, which Ares took from Kratos in the final battle.

• Medusa's Gaze: Upon killing Medusa for Aphrodite's orders Kratos takes her head, and can use it to turn his enemies to stone.

• Blades of Athena: Magical blades bestowed on Kratos by the goddess Athena. They function the same as the Blades of Chaos. Given to Kratos as he ascends to Godhood, after Ares had taken the Blades of Chaos from him during their final battle in God of War. The blades are dulled and drained of power after Kratos falls into the River Styx in God of War III.

• Barbarian Hammer: A slow but powerful melee weapon originally wielded by the Barbarian King. With it, Kratos can deliver powerful slams and smashes, and also summon legions of souls.

• Spear of Destiny: A weapon originally used by the Dark Rider. With it, Kratos can perform deadly swipes and stabs, and can also fire dangerous piercing projectiles at enemies.

• Blade of Olympus: A divine sword so powerful that it allowed Zeus to defeat the Titans in the Great War.

• The golden fleece: able to deflect any projectile or attack if Kratos is fast enough to lift it

• The blades of exile: Kratos' signature duel blades, they stretch as far as (rough guess here) 5 - 10 feet

• The claws of Hades: Two claw shaped weapons which can steal the souls of enemies. They also stretch from 5 -10 feet. They also can bring forth creatures (specifically a Cerberus, an archer, three sword wielding sentries, a gorgon, a flying bat called a fiend, a chimera, a cyclops, a centaur, or a siren.)

• Nemean Cretus: Two large bronze gloves which can break diamond like shields and/or barriers

• Nemesis whip: Two chained blades which are capable of electrocuting enemies for a short period of time

• Bow of Apollo: A bow with an endless supply of arrows made of pure fire.

• Head of Helios: A severed head that is capable of blinding enemies (when charged), lighting dark areas and if applied enough times can burn weaker enemies alive.

• Boots of Hermes: A set of boots that allows Kratos the ability to dash forward. He can run up and on walls and if he runs into enemies, usually his size and a little weaker, he can make them fly into the air.

• Icarus' wings: Two wings that allow Kratos to glide and shoot into the air. Note it's not flying

Fire of Ares: Imbues the Blades of Chaos with intense flames, and enables Kratos to create devastating explosions of fire. Incinerating enemies yields Gold Orbs.

Ice of Poseidon: Gives Kratos the power of ice, freezing shockwave attacks, and the ability to breathe underwater. Freezing enemies yields Large Red Orbs.

Lightning of Zeus: Electrifies Kratos' blades and enables powerful lightning magic. Electrocuting enemies yields Blue Orbs.

Soul of Hades: Imbues Kratos' weapons with the souls of the dead, enabling him to summon spirits and the Arms of Hades to vaporize his enemies. Vaporizing enemies yields green orbs.

• Poseidon's Rage: This is a magic given to Kratos by Poseidon. It allows him to unleash devastating electricity upon nearby foes, hitting multiple times and protecting him from attack.

• Zeus' Fury: A power given to Kratos by Zeus himself. It allows Kratos to summon bolts of lightning in his hands and throw them at distant enemies.

• Army of Hades: This power is given to Kratos by Hades in Pandora's Temple. With it, Kratos can summon the very souls of the Underworld to attack any nearby foes

•Poseidon's Rage: This is a magic from the first God of War game. Kratos uses it in the first part of the game (at Rhodes), but loses it upon sacrificing his godly powers. However, Kratos can use this magic ability during Bonus Play if the Urn of Poseidon has been unlocked and used. The urn switches Cronos' Rage with Poseidon's Rage.

•Typhon's Bane: A magical bow-like weapon that allows Kratos to fire rapid blasts of wind.

•Cronos' Rage: An attack using electricity to strike multiple targets via orbs of lightning. Higher levels spread farther and attack more targets, and even create an explosion at the end of its duration.

•Head of Euryale: The severed head of Euryale, which can be used to turn enemies to stone (similar to the Medusa's Gaze from the first game, however it is powerful enough to turn other Gorgons to stone).

•Atlas Quake: A radial ground-pounding attack in which Kratos summons strong earthquakes to smite opponents.

•Rage of the Titans: This power is gained from Prometheus, and is similar to the "Rage of the Gods" from the first game. to take less damage from enemy attacks.

•Golden Fleece: A golden armlet which Kratos can use to reflect attacks and projectiles back at their sender.

•Icarus Wings: A pair of feathered wings that Kratos takes from Icarus. With them, he can glide short distances while jumping and float on air currents.

•Urn of Gaia: Collect 10 times the amount of red orbs

•Urn of the Gorgons: Gives the weapons the power to turn enemies into stone

•Urn of Olympus: Grants infinite Magic

•Urn of Prometheus: Grants infinite Rage of the Titans

•Urn of the Fates: Extends combo timer by 3 seconds

•Urn of Poseidon: Replaces Cronos' Rage with Poseidon's Rage

• Poseidon's Triton: This isn't actually a weapon, it does however give Kratos the ability to breathe underwater and dash underwater.

• Blade of Olympus/ Divine Reckoning: This ability allows Kratos to go into a rage mode where he swings the blade of Olympus. This blade is capable of releasing small energy waves. The blade also contains the power of the god of war.

• Army of Sparta: This ability surrounds Kratos with a group of shields that seem to be unbreakable. Along with these protective shields spears come from spaces in the shield and arrows rain down around him.

• The Nemean's Cretus' blast: I apologize for not knowing the blasts exact name of the blast but the blast sends small shockwaves on the ground

• Nemesis' rage: Kratos uses Nemesis' Whips to shock the enemies around him

Kratos was once a spartan warrior, which makes him actually pretty skilled. Even though the majority of the time he relies on brute strength, behind all that he does have formal training in close quarters combat.

Kratos is also able to use the abilities of any weapon he holds. Now most would say this is just due to game mechanics but in truth Kratos just has a real natural talent for weapons, I'd most likely contribute this to his unknown amount of time spent as the god of war

According to:

http://www.legendsandchronicles.com/ancient-warriors/spartan-warriors/

"When the young Spartans reached twelve, their training would be increased dramatically with more discipline and training introduced. Extra work and tasks were often delegated to the young Spartans of this age. Later when they had matured at age twenty, they were considered by the state to be full warriors and deemed ready to join the Spartan army."

I've got to say I'm incredibly confused right now. From what I can tell Mr. Markov is no doubt superhuman in strength to the point where he can fight angels and run through buildings. This is unfortunately crazy because he shouldn't be fighting Kratos if this is all he can do strength wise. Kratos can kill rip the wings off of Icarus, kill all 3 Fates within an hour of each other, he can also punch a giant chain and diamond like object straight through Cronus' head. Like so...

Note that diamond must weigh a few tons.

Also later on you show that a superhuman being is a 4th as strong as an angel (well that's what I can understand from the cards stats). If Angels are only 4 times stronger than a normal superhuman then they're fodder in the GoW universe. Every undead soldier in GoW is at least peak human, stone soldiers are above that, and Ogres, Giant Scorpions, and Cerberus beasts are even farther above that still by a large margin. What feats do normal angels have that prove they are above monsters like Ogres in GoW?

"This one is even better. He's shown pushing Avacyn, an archangel strong enough to throw around peak human mages and charge through earth with ease, through a building."

Is that all? Peak human mages? Charge through buildings? Why do you think that Avacyn could ever compare to Kratos, he's more like Hercules if anything or even less. Also Kratos rips monsters like undead archers and swordsmen in half, and he regularly rips the heads off of monsters he would also toss around peak humans.

Srs tho, I'm not off again until Sunday, so next post will take a bit.