CaV: DCEU Batman (Ouroborik) vs Nolan Batman (Lubub55) [VOTING CLOSED]

DCEU Batman's best strength feats are probably punching someone through the floor and throwing a man into a wall so hard it breaks.

Whilst past his prime (the leg brace only fixed the cartilage in his legs. It didn't return him to his former strength.) Bruce was able to shatter brick with a casual kick which surprised even him.

Gallery

https://youtu.be/-gGbAA_-IC4?t=18s

Bruce is so strong that a single one of his punches is enough to snap a metal chain.

Here, whilst Bruce is pinned to the floor and unable to utilize his legs or lower-back strength he manages to push a wooden beam off of him after just being KO'ed by a large amount of smoke. This article states that smaller wooden beams weigh hundreds of pounds.

During his fight with Bane at a certain part the two went purely into a physical struggle and Batman was actually able to match him and hold his own in that regard.

Bane can easily kill people by slamming their heads on tables and with single punches.

As well as this Bane can easily crush a man's throat with pure gripping strength of only a single hand and can even snap necks.

He can also casually lift Batman completely off the ground by the neck with only a single hand and can walk around with him.

On to Bane's most impressive strength feat, he casually breaks into a thick concrete pillar with his punches. The guy is a legitimate superhuman and Batman was able to match strength with him whilst past his prime.

Batman has strength-enhancing gauntlets which give him enough gripping strength to completely bend a rifle barrel downwards.

Not only is Nolan Batman able to consistently one/two-shot fodder like DCEU Batman, he can also one-shot a security guard with only a backhand whilst simultaneously dragging someone across the ground and without slowing down.

After just having had a fight, Bruce carries Ra’s al Ghul on his back, gets blown out a building by an explosion and grabs Ra’s al Ghul before he falls off a cliff. Bruce himself is not properly leveraged, as his shoulder is on a slant and was just pulled by the force of the sudden stop by the hook. He is only supporting himself and Ra’s with a single arm. Even though he is not properly leveraged himself Bruce is strong enough to not only pull himself up with one arm whilst not properly leveraged, but also lift Ra’s al Ghul up with him with a single arm. At the time this film was made Liam Neeson weighed 225lbs and Bruce was confirmed by viral marketing to weigh about 210lbs. Both of them are also in armour.

This is DCEU Batman's best speed feat. From close range he aim dodges a Police Officer who is so startled that he shoots at his partner accidentally.

Nolan Batman has dodged gunfire from three different shooters at once who have gotten the drop on him who at at a distance where they can easily keep eyes on him when he moves, and he still gets out the way and completely disappears.

As well as this he has evaded gunfire whilst running down a corridor without much room to maneuver. Now although this was aided by darkness it is still impressive since the shooter didn't have many places to target.

In this video Christopher Nolan confirms that Batman is blindingly quick even in Batman Begins, and he then gets an armour upgrade which makes him even faster in The Dark Knight.

After being surprised by an attack from behind, Bruce Wayne is fast enough to turn around and stomp a League of Shadows assassin in the time it takes Ra's al Ghul to draw his sword.

Nolan Batman also has a lot of off-screen speed feats which he does from stealth but I'll save those for later.

I'm going to post the GIF of Bane punching through concrete again, just to show Batman tanking six concrete punches and not being affected. He tanks loads more as well. Here is the first and second fight that Batman has with Bane. In the first fight Batman is hit with twenty-eight concrete-busting punches, many of which were to the head, and still managed to carry on fighting and was only incapacitated when his back was broken. Bear in mind at this point Batman was not motivated and he wasn't fully back in the game yet. In the second fight we see Batman tank twenty-three punches and he isn't even impacted by them. He immediately interrogates Bane whilst showing no signs of pain. it should also be noted that from 0:37 - 1:46, over a minute and about half of the fight, we see other people and miss the Batman vs Bane fight. Bane landed twenty-three punches from what we saw when Batman had the upper-hand, and when the camera returns to the fight Bane has the upper-hand which means that Batman presumably took even more punches.

After getting sprayed by Scarecrow's fear toxin and set on fire, Batman jumps out of a fourth-story window unassisted by his cape/glider straight onto a car hard enough to damage it and he then gets up and gets away from the crowd.

Here after being knocked down and unable top fight back the Joker hits an undefended Batman dozens of times with a steel rod ad then Bruce simply kicks him off and goes back to fighting the dogs. He is then trapped and beaten again and remains unfazed the whole time.

Overall Nolan Batman's blunt force durability is much greater than that of DCEU Batman's, but that's not all. His pain tolerance/willpower is also better.

As I showed earlier Batman managed to resist the scare effect of Scarecrow's fear toxin which instantly turned countless thugs, and even the strong-willed crime boss Carmine Falcone, insane on impact. It even turned the entirety of Gotham insane.

Even though the gunshot from Harvey Dent penetrated Bruce's armour, Bruce's pain tolerance was so good that he quickly recovered from the shot, rescued Commissioner Gordon's son and then outran the Police.

After getting stabbed between the plates of his armour Batman gets up and in minutes disposes of the bomb in Gotham.

As for stamina, before his training after just climbing a mountain Bruce can "barely stand" and he is still capable of fighting Ra's al Ghul. He is defeated because he is at a massive disadvantage in terms of skill at that point, but he had the stamina to actually fight.

I'm going to post the warehouse fight now. It is nowhere near as impressive as most people seem to think. For a start Batman disabled the guns of the thugs in there and was also tagged at 1:58, 2:04, 2:22, 2:30, 2:37, and some other times. If it wasn't for his armour he'd be dead. In the warehouse he takes down a total of nineteen thugs not including KGBeast. While this may seem very impressive at first you shoudl bear in mind that he isn't fighting them all at once and is actually isolating them and taking on small groups. The highest amount of thugs he actually fights at once is four and that starts at 2:02. He is given genuine difficulty by them and even gets knocked down and stabbed during the fight when he was forced to take on four thugs at once when the fight was on even ground, two of which had knives. Batman took down that same number but of League of Shadows assassins wielding swords in only a fraction of the time DCEU Batman took and with only a fraction of the difficulty. This should give you some idea of what League of Shadows training is like.

As well as this League fodder are capable of easily snapping necks.

Even before he was trained Bruce could take on six criminals at once without equipment. This feat is often overlooked. With the help of Catwoman (an inferior fighter to Batman) in The Dark Knight Rises Batman fights and beats a large group of opponents who were specifically stated to be not just street thugs but trained killers. He has also stomped six armed mercenaries at once.

Overall the feats I've just shown already put Nolan Batman above DCEU Batman in terms of skill, but that isn't his best. This is.

We see that Batman jumps into the middle of a crowd of seventeen (though some may be part of the camera crew) and stomps them all in about twenty seconds. He isn't picking them off or taking on small groups like what DCEU Batman did in the warehouse scene, nor is he taking on some of them on even ground. He literally jumps right into the middle of the group and gets completely surrounded from all sides and is still able to stomp them with no difficulty in around twenty seconds. Some of them even have weapons.

As for skill against established opponents, Nolan Batman has defeated Bane. Beating someone as strong as Bane with none of his other attributes would already be impressive, but Bane is more than just strength. Because of his mask he is unable to feel pain and as Alfred says he is fast and skilled as well as strong.

Although Bane could one-shot with his monstrous strength, here he takes down security guards with only his skill. As well as this, during his fights with Batman he regularly blocks, dodges and catches his punches. In Batman Begins Bruce was "blindingly quick" and although his physicals decreased with age, he got lighter armour to balance it out. This means that Bane is stronger than Batman, incredibly skilled and blindingly quick and yet in the end Batman was still able to beat him when past his prime.

Dude, where should I even start??

The beginning.

You literally took DCEU Batman's only fight scene and nitpicked the Hell out of it

Nitpick is the wrong word. I took his best and only fight scene and showed how even though the choreography in it is better than in the Nolan films, what he actually accomplished in it can easily be replicated and surpassed by Nolan Batman.

how can you even call yourself the underdog in this debate?

Most people seem to think that this is a massive mismatch in favour of DCEU Batman, and I intend to prove them wrong.

First of all there's the fact that he can move fast enough to look like a blur to onlookers.

I don't see that as being a blur. I just see him moving along the roof and the shooter missing because of how startled he is. We see darkness because his black cape is turned towards us but I wouldn't go so far as to say he appears as a blur.

Batman is crawling to the ceiling so he isn't just moving fast, he is moving fast while exerting an incredible amount of strenght.

I do agree that DCEU Batman is stronger, but in terms of pure speed he isn't as good as Nolan Batman.

He is also fast enough to react to an explosionwhile tired and having to protect a defenseless person.

He isn't reacting to an explosion in that clip.

I have made it into a GIF. In it Batman shoots the fuel tank and runs to Martha and covers her up before the tank explodes. He has good timing in the clip, but he isn't outrunning an explosion. There is also no indication that Batman was tired in that scene, and even if he was that goes against him since after holding a massive party, fighting a League ninja and Ra's al Ghul and getting out of his burning mansion after inhaling lots of smoke Nolan Batman was able to go out into Gotham, fight more Leauge ninjas and Ra's again and stop his plan without being affected by fatigue.

If this isn't enough, Batman has got more tricks up his sleeve. His main weapon is a grappling hook that gives him a major speed boost covering medium/long distances.

Using the grappling hook Batman was able to literally fly by a group of thugs, right in the middle of them, and move so fast he wasn't seen.

Even better, using the grappling hook, Batman was able to dodge the attacks of Doomsday, a Kryptonian monster (Kryptonians are pretty fast folks).

Although the grappling hook does propel DCEU Batman at fast speeds I don't see how that's relevant in a fight. It allows DCEU Batman to cross long distances faster than Nolan Batman but it doesn't increase his combat speed or reflexes. In a fight like this one the grappling hook is a non-factor. Nolan Batman actually has a grappling hook himself but it is completely irrelevant to this fight.

Able to casually snap human necks:

As I showed in my last post nameless League of Shadows assassins are strong enough to do this so Nolan Batman, who was stated by Ra's al Ghul to be his best student who has been through the League's training, should also be capable of doing this. DCEU Batman was clearly straining and putting a lot of effort into his neck snap in the GIF you posted and certainly wasn't doing it casually. As well as this, the GIF you posted was part of a dream sequence, though I do think that DCEU Bats should be capable of doing it anyway.

And his workout sessions look borderline superhuman.

Nolan Batman being able to push a wooden beam that weighs hundreds of pounds off of him without leverage whilst also having passed out from smoke inhalation is also borderline superhuman. So are pretty much all of Bane's feats, who Batman overpowered.

As I mentioned before, Batman's main weapon is his grappling hook. Besides serving as a means of transportation it can also be used to throw objects around the battlefield thanks to Batman's near superhuman strenght. This is an effective and deadly attack and Batman has been able to kill opponents with it:

This is a very good piece of equipment, but there aren't many things scattered around at a shipping yard to use as weapons which practically negates the grappling hook being used as a weapon, and even if there were Nolan Batman isn't going to fight at a distance where DCEU Batman could use the grappling hook, he is going to close the gap through speed and stealth like he always does and then fight in melee.

Even better, Batman can shoot is grappling hook directly at his opponents, piercing through their body and allowing him to hurt and throw them around from a safe distance:

Baleman's suit is not piercing proof so I'm pretty sure he would get wrecked by an attack like this.

Actually, it is.

His Batman Begins suit is completely knife-proof (and also bullet-proof) and his Dark Knight Rises suit is only vulnerable to knives when stabbed between his plated. DCEU Batman won't know that, and even if he did he doesn't have the accuracy with it to aim it specifically between the plates in the batsuit.

Other than that, Batman has his classic Batarangs altough I don't think they would be of much use in this fight.

I agree that batarangs won't play much of a factor in this fight.

I've already shown 3 categories where DCEU Batman surpasses Baleman.

You've shown feats for DCEU Batman's strength, speed and equipment. Out of those categories he only beats Nolan Batman in terms of strength and it isn't even by that much. His speed isn't as good as Nolan Batman's and all of his gear is practically useless.

You already posted the warehouse fight, an action scene where Batfleck completely outshines any fight Baleman has ever been in. I mean, it's not even debatable, Baleman simply has never been shown doing the kind of stuff that Batfleck did.

In my last post I showed the warehouse fight and then compared it to some of Nolan Batman's fight scenes and showed how they were more impressive showings of skill.

You mentioned DCEU Batman getting tagged in the warehouse scene, well guess what, the only reason we see him getting tagged more than Baleman is the fact that the camera actually shows the fighting, if the camera work had been anything like BvS for in The Dark Knight trilogy, we would have seen Baleman getting tagged a lot more.

Not true. The camera is only like that for action scenes in Batman Begins. In The Dark Knight and The Dark Knight Rises the camera zooms out and we see what happens and Batman still rarely ever gets tagged. DCEU Batman getting tagged wasn't my onlt point there though, I also showed that he doesn't deal with opponents nearly as effectively as Nolan Batman does regardless of who gets hit more.

Just take a look at this fight.

Nolan Batman is fighting four League of Shadows assassins in that scene, all with swords and armour, and he only gets tagged once and deals with them all in less than a minute, even though League fodder are strong enough to snap necks, are expertly skilled in stealth and are also incredibly fast, agile and skilled. Against four random mercenries (only two of which had knives) DCEU Batman was tagged a bunch of times and it took him a long while and great difficulty to win. And for tags I only count undefended shots, so ones where hits were blocked do not count. If they do then DCEU Batman's warehouse hit-count increases massively.

And this.

In that scene Nolan Batman is pinned down by three rottweilers trained to kill by the mob and is still able to push them off and beat them. He is only tagged by Joker afterwards because he is pinned down by the dogs, and then because he is tangled in a net. Being hit by fodder and being hit by attack dogs you are not expecting are very different things.

First there is the scene at the docks from Batman Begins. In it Batman doesn't just stealth everyone there and take them out undetected like he is clearly capable of, he uses diversionary tactics to mislead opponents and lure them into traps, only being seen when he wants to be. He creates sound distractions and allows opponents to catch glimpses of him, navigating the docks and cutting opponents off when he realistically should have no way to get to them.

Here he does the same thing again, but with much less cover in an open area. He seems to be in certain places and then quickly ends up behind the thugs without anyone else noticing. He takes out an opponent wit a grapple and then ends up on the other side of the room undetected.

Here an effect is used to make it look like he outright vanishes. His predatory tactics are above DCEU Batman's pay grade.

He hasn't just picked opponents off from stealth either. When three shooters get the drop on him Batman avoids there gunfire and with almost no cover he completely vanishes from view right in front of them in a moderately-well lit room and then reengages from stealth.

There is also this scene. Batman is forced to engage four League assassins so he flips one over the balcony and attacks from a different angle.

League ninjas are trained to be pretty much invisibly and a load of them can all be present in a room with Bruce Wayne during his training undetected. As Ra's al Ghul puts it they are trained to be "invisible". League assassins were also able to infiltrate every level of Gotham's infrastructure and were even able to hide in Wayne manor without Bruce noticing. They are all stealth experts, and Nolan Batman can ghost them even when they start in sight.

In a training session, Bruce uses his skills of deception to trick Ra's al Ghul.

Moreover, Batman has been able to decieve multiple S.W.A.T. teams and take them out undetected whilst simultaneously saving hostages. This video should give you a good idea of what S.W.A.T. training is like and how they effectively clear rooms, covering every corner of it and trusting their team members with their life.

Nolan carries multiple flash bombs which he can use to disorient DCEU Batman and lower his defenses, opening him up to attack.

Another piece of equipment he carries is launchable wrist-blades which he has actually used against the Joker to injure him and has also used it on Bane's mask to clip it.