CaV: Azula (justicethorpsylocke) vs Mako/Bolin (Arcus)Closed

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Arcus1

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#1  Edited By Arcus1

Princess Azula, represented by @justicethorpsylocke

Mako and Bolin, represented by @arcus

When the Fire Nation princess takes on the Bending Bros, who will win?

Fight takes place in the forest outside Zaofu. Starting distance is 25 feet. Time is noon

Azula is sane

Both are in character. They take each other as serious threats and are determined to win

Victory by ko or death

First posts will be up soon (do you want to start @justicethorpsylocke?)

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THUNDERBOLT30

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Nice. I'll be followng this one but tag me for votes.

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Arcus1

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Just_Banter

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Nice, I think this could be pretty even, t4v please

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Arcus1

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Nice, I think this could be pretty even, t4v please

Sure

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blackspidey2099

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tag me too pls!

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Arcus1

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They've lived as street rats, trained as pro-benders, fought as cops and soldiers, and taken on elite benders to help the Avatar save the world. These bending brothers are a formidable duo, with a variety of skills that make them valuable allies and dangerous opponents. Azula's an exceptional bender, but the brothers' teamwork, experience, and unique skills will give them the win

Bolin

For this post, I'm going to focus on one of the brothers: the lava bender Bolin. (I'll cover Mako in my next post).

The younger of the duo, Bolin has grown from a skilled but somewhat naive pro-bender to a battle-hardened powerhouse. Combining the speed and agility of a pro-bender with the strength and power of a lava bender, Bolin would be a challenge for Azula on his own

Earthbending:

Bolin's showcased a wide variety of earthbending skills over the four seasons of Legend of Korra. As a pro-bender, he learned to incorporate his agility into his earthbending (a style of bending often slower and less mobile than the other three), giving him a style of fighting different from the earthbenders Azula is used to facing.

In this battle against a group of skilled waterbenders, we can see Bolin's probending speed and agility in action. Despite the limitations of fighting in the pro-bending arena (where he is restricted to the earth disks), he is more than capable of taking on these waterbenders (who aren't limited in their elemental access) and defeating them

Loading Video...

Another advantage Bolin has from his pro-bending experience is accuracy. This skill helped Bolin take down the combustion bender P'li, allowing the Beifongs to save Korra from the Red Lotus

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An impressive feat of bending accuracy

However, while pro-bending has it's advantages, there are also advantages to the more traditional earthbending techniques emphasizing terrain control and raw power. Some have criticized Bolin for lacking these techniques in the earlier seasons, as he tended to focus more on projectile based attacks. However, by Season 4, these criticisms no longer apply. Bolin has shown an impressive variety of earthbending skills, proving that he can do far more than simply throw rocks

earth shields and manipulating the landscape
earth shields and manipulating the landscape
earth-trapping
earth-trapping
using large earth attacks and earth to help with agility
using large earth attacks and earth to help with agility

With the strength of traditional earth bending and the speed of pro-bending, Bolin is a skilled opponent with pure earth alone. However, this is only part of Bolin's skill set

Lavabending:

At the end of Book 3, Bolin unlocked one of the rarest of all bending skills: lava bending. One of two earthbenders in history known to possess this skill, Bolin has developed impressive skill with the sub-element in three years.

Here are a few examples of Bolin's skill in lava-bending:

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As we can see, Bolin is capable of quickly generating large amounts of lava, sending large waves at opponents or engulfing significant areas

Bolin may not be a cold killer, but he'll do what it takes to get the job done. As we see in the above gifs, he was willing to send a large wave of lava at a group of soldiers. He was also perfectly willing to use lava attacks in his battle against Ghazan

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Even if he doesn't go for the kill immediately (which he probably won't) he can use lava to restrict Azula's movement, force her into certain areas, etc. For a fighter like Azula who depends on movement, this can be detrimental

On his own, Bolin is a fearsome opponent. In my next post I will describe Mako's abilities, and outline why their combined abilities are more than enough to bring down Azula

@justicethorpsylocke your turn

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GXrevolution96

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Hmm. Interesting. I'll definitely be following this one

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justicethorpsylocke

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Alright, my turn.

Azula is a serious powerhouse, and one of the strongest Firebenders in the entire lore. From a young age, she was hailed as a Firebending prodigy, and she has excellent acrobatic skill along with impressive tactical awareness. She has one of the most consistent battle track records in all of Avatar, and I see her taking a high-majority over the pro-bending brothers. Here's why.

Loading Video...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWDNFKnab7s

2:00-2:40 -- Shows exemplary combat skill against Zuko.

2:55 -- Uses firejets to save herself from a fatal fall

Loading Video...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NqLW7D2P1HE

0:15 -- Uses firejets to boost herself a considerable distance and slide herself along a the cart's metal support wire.

1:22 -- Great acrobatic feat

Loading Video...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3EJNNWsGvM

This video is full of excellent battle feats against Aang himself.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdcdhgn0zHM

2:00-2:40 -- Even while depowered, Azula had no trouble avoiding some of Aang's attack and keeping up with him in their chase despite Aang's greatly enhanced agility and speed.

I might post more later. Your turn.

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Arcus1

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Mako

The elder of the bending bros, Mako's a skilled firebender who's versatility and combat aptitude make him a valuable ally, a dangerous opponent, and the perfect compliment for Bolin's earth and lava bending.

Firebending:

In his career as a pro-bender, cop, and Team Avatar's resident firebender, Mako has displayed a wide variety of firebending skills and techniques.

Like Bolin, Mako was first trained as a pro-bender, emphasizing speed, agility, and accuracy. He was a natural at the sport, as much as if not more than Bolin, capable of taking on 3 opponents and winning

Loading Video...

I'm starting the video where Mako really starts to shine, showing evasiveness, strategy, accuracy, and power

However, Mako is not limited to the arena. He has repeatedly proven himself as a capable combatant outside the court, taking on high tier benders such as Unalaq, Ming Hua, or Ghazan. I'm going to post some highlights from his fights showcasing his power and versatility

Power: Mako may not be as powerful as Azula, but when he gets serious he has plenty of respectable feats of raw strength

showcasing powerful explosive blasts
showcasing powerful explosive blasts
Generating an impressive amount of fire, on ice for that matter
Generating an impressive amount of fire, on ice for that matter
Overpowering Ghazan's shield
Overpowering Ghazan's shield
Good showing of range and power
Good showing of range and power

Speed: as a pro-bender, Mako tends to incorporate speed and agility into his fights. Here's a few demonstrations of this

Keeping up with Ming Hua, one of the most agile benders on the show
Keeping up with Ming Hua, one of the most agile benders on the show
Dancing around a mech's attacks
Dancing around a mech's attacks

Defensive Skills: firebending does not generally have the same defensive techniques as, say, earthbending. However, Mako has still displayed various defensive techniques to help with Azula's attacks

Easily blocking an attack from Ming Hua
Easily blocking an attack from Ming Hua
Bending an explosion around himself-the only firebender with this kind of feat I can think of
Bending an explosion around himself-the only firebender with this kind of feat I can think of
Blasting an attack from Ghazan back
Blasting an attack from Ghazan back
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Fire Jets: Azula's often praised for her use of fire jets to boost mobility and such, as you mentioned in your post. However, she's not the only one to display this technique

Using fire jets against Ghazan, also slicing through his shield
Using fire jets against Ghazan, also slicing through his shield
Fire jets on a bike
Fire jets on a bike

Lightning:

Bolin might have lavabending, but Mako has a sub-element of his own: Lightning. Mako is the most skilled lightning bender we have seen in Avatar, demonstrating full mastery of techniques such as instant lightning generation as well as lightning redirection

Instant LIghtning: Mako has repeatedly shown the ability to generate lightning instantly, without the charging time Azula often needed in A:TLA

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He has even been shown generating lightning while being bloodbent by Amon. Yes, this lightning was not enough to ko Amon, but it's a great feat of skill that he was able to project lightning at all with Amon controlling his movements

Loading Video...

He used his instant to lightning to great effect by bringing down Ming Hua. This shows not only his skill in lightning, but also that it is strong enough to ko or kill (Ming Hua is confirmed dead, though I admit I'm not sure if it's from this or from Ghazan bringing down the temple later), and his willingness to use force to put her down

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In addition to lightning generation, Mako has also shown the valuable ability to redirect lightning. This could allow him to use Azula's lightning against her should she attempt it in this battle

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Finally, if you weren't convinced of his skill already, here's one final demonstration from the series finale. He's generating a charged, continuous stream of lightning (something we've never seen from any other lightning bender), while also redirecting the discharge. This is a demonstration of skill unequaled by any other lightning bender in the series

Loading Video...

I think that covers about everything for Mako's abilities. So far I've discussed the brother's capabilities individually, in my next post I'll talk about their teamwork and how they compliment each other's abilities. I'll also start to address the points you've raised and detail exactly why Mako and Bolin are more than a match for Azula

@justicethorpsylocke your move

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justicethorpsylocke

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I feel like I might lose this lol. Time to try.

Okay, Bolin is in my opinion, the brothers MVP. His lavabending is quite strong, but it doesn't exactly work like hot waterbending. It has fairly modest limits in its range and can't do quite as much as some would like to think. His pure earthbending is very impressive, but I think Azula has the agility to get around it. Mako is a very powerful and skilled firebender and I just realized (while watching the gifs and videos) that i might have underestimated him. I think the fight, despite teamwork will come down to Mako vs Azula. Now onto your post on teamwork

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Arcus1

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I feel like I might lose this lol. Time to try.

Okay, Bolin is in my opinion, the brothers MVP. His lavabending is quite strong, but it doesn't exactly work like hot waterbending. It has fairly modest limits in its range and can't do quite as much as some would like to think. His pure earthbending is very impressive, but I think Azula has the agility to get around it. Mako is a very powerful and skilled firebender and I just realized (while watching the gifs and videos) that i might have underestimated him. I think the fight, despite teamwork will come down to Mako vs Azula. Now onto your post on teamwork

lol, Mako has his more underwhelming moments, but he can also be pretty impressive.

Don't give up yet :)

I'll work on a full post later

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Arcus1

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I feel like I might lose this lol. Time to try.

Okay, Bolin is in my opinion, the brothers MVP. His lavabending is quite strong, but it doesn't exactly work like hot waterbending. It has fairly modest limits in its range and can't do quite as much as some would like to think. His pure earthbending is very impressive, but I think Azula has the agility to get around it. Mako is a very powerful and skilled firebender and I just realized (while watching the gifs and videos) that i might have underestimated him. I think the fight, despite teamwork will come down to Mako vs Azula. Now onto your post on teamwork

Bolin's lavabending obviously has limits, but it get's the job done. It's range is sufficient for mid-range bending battles.

Couple more examples of him generating larger amounts of lava

No Caption Provided
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Azula might have the agility to get around Bolin's earth and lava and secure a win if Bolin was by himself, but he's not. He and Mako will be fighting together, and she's not getting around their offense and defense

Teamwork

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Mako and Bolin are good alone, but they're even better when working together. With Mako's quick firebending attacks to keep opponents off balance and Bolin's solid defense, with offensive attacks at key moments, they're an excellent combo capable of taking on the highest tier of benders

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Even back in book 2, before Bolin learned lavabending and improved his earthbendng, the brother's were an excellent duo, capable of holding off the powerful waterbender Unalaq

No Caption Provided
Loading Video...

This is the same guy who would go on to fight Avatar Korra herself to a stalmate

In Book 3, the Bending Brothers' fast-paced teamwork and combos proved too much for the lavabender Ghazan, quickly taking down the powerful Red Lotus member

No Caption Provided
Loading Video...

And Bolin's improved even more since then. (Mako has improved a good bit since season 1, but he reached his peak sometime in season 2 or 3-not that he got worse or anything)

So, as you can see, being better than the brothers individually isn't enough. They're a dangerous combo, and quite frankly, Azula isn't powerful enough to beat them both

@justicethorpsylocke

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justicethorpsylocke

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@arcus said:

@justicethorpsylocke said:

I feel like I might lose this lol. Time to try.

Okay, Bolin is in my opinion, the brothers MVP. His lavabending is quite strong, but it doesn't exactly work like hot waterbending. It has fairly modest limits in its range and can't do quite as much as some would like to think. His pure earthbending is very impressive, but I think Azula has the agility to get around it. Mako is a very powerful and skilled firebender and I just realized (while watching the gifs and videos) that i might have underestimated him. I think the fight, despite teamwork will come down to Mako vs Azula. Now onto your post on teamwork

Bolin's lavabending obviously has limits, but it get's the job done. It's range is sufficient for mid-range bending battles.

Couple more examples of him generating larger amounts of lava

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

Azula might have the agility to get around Bolin's earth and lava and secure a win if Bolin was by himself, but he's not. He and Mako will be fighting together, and she's not getting around their offense and defense

Teamwork

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

Mako and Bolin are good alone, but they're even better when working together. With Mako's quick firebending attacks to keep opponents off balance and Bolin's solid defense, with offensive attacks at key moments, they're an excellent combo capable of taking on the highest tier of benders

No Caption Provided

Even back in book 2, before Bolin learned lavabending and improved his earthbendng, the brother's were an excellent duo, capable of holding off the powerful waterbender Unalaq

No Caption Provided
Loading Video...

This is the same guy who would go on to fight Avatar Korra herself to a stalmate

In Book 3, the Bending Brothers' fast-paced teamwork and combos proved too much for the lavabender Ghazan, quickly taking down the powerful Red Lotus member

No Caption Provided
Loading Video...

And Bolin's improved even more since then. (Mako has improved a good bit since season 1, but he reached his peak sometime in season 2 or 3-not that he got worse or anything)

So, as you can see, being better than the brothers individually isn't enough. They're a dangerous combo, and quite frankly, Azula isn't powerful enough to beat them both

@justicethorpsylocke

I think the brothers are very impressive, both individually and as a team, however, I think Azula can win this. Her agility, as I've shown in the videos I've posted, is well above what Mako or Bolin can do. She also has better raw power, so I think if it came to either coming face to face with her, she'd take the brother out. Mako I'm not entirely sure on. He has lightning redirection, which she does not, but he isn't on her level in any other regard except lightning. Bolin's a beast, but alas, he would be destroyed if she got too close for comfort due to superior agility, quick draw speed, and the fact that Azula backflipping over him while raining down a stream of fireballs is going to mean a surefire death, which she will obviously do in character.

Well, looks like you and I have thrown our best arguments here. Unless you have any other statements, I think we should leave this up to a vote.

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Arcus1

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@justicethorpsylocke:

I just have a few final points:

1. Azula's agility is not extremely above Mako and Bolin. Is she more agile than them? Sure. Agile enough to backflip over them shooting fireballs? I haven't seen anything indicating she can do that

2. Azula's not gonna get face to face with either brother alone. They fight as a unit. If she tries to focus on one, the other will be ready to take her down

With that being said, if you're ready for voting to begin, I'm ready too

Voting is now open

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I'll edit the title to say we're voting when I'm off my phone

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Koays

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#17  Edited By Koays

Eh...Bending Bros

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justicethorpsylocke

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@arcus: in my opinion it is. Her chase with Aang while depowered shows her doing a vicious backflip, and she has great agility feats in her fights with Zuko. And Im not saying she'll get in a fight alone with a brother, I'm saying she'd get a fatal shot when she has the chance

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Arcus1

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@arcus: Vote goes to arcus, seriously you won by a landslide I dont even think there should be a reason given, anyone who disagrees per say on the feats, counters, and actual reasons given by you, is out of their mind. I aint saying it was a bad CaV you just literally owned anything given at you and then some more. Good job you win my vote.

@justicethorpsylocke good try, but as I told someone else in a different CaV for star wars. Unlike tournaments you create the terms technically speaking its both of you instead of being facing a random person with opponents who could outclass you, but this, this was on you it was a good try but next time might want to think of evening out the numbers or changing it around maybe don't have azula at all and do another duo or a pair of teammates.

Anyway good job guys, but as I said Arcus not only won this, but honestly I feel i got a new respect for the bros I've even forgotten some of the feats you did show, not that i couldnt look them up if i was in a CaV, but good times though.

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Arcus1

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DeathHero61

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@arcus: Better argument, had more to offer and presented his case better. With the way he debated he made azula look like crap in comparison to them when most would easily think otherwise.

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Arcus1

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Okay, I'd like to state for the record that when I said "I'm losing hope" that meant I was sure I was gonna lose after he posted his argument for Mako. I threw out arguments in a last effort.

@killerwasp that was worded very strangely, I'm not sure what you were trying to tell me or what you think I did wrong.

@deathhero61 yeah, I was at the end of my stick there.

First CaV, people. Try not to rip me apart too much

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@justicethorpsylocke: Next time use a character that has more information and feats to offer, just a pro tip.

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I'll vote @arcus amazing format, but that is to be expected with your gif work, and argument. It's clear to see how the brothers are way too much for her.

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Arcus1

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@justicethorpsylocke: Nothing, because i got downs sometimes lol.

Point is You set yourself up for failure honestly,for you kinda overestimated azula and underestimated the bros. That was my point. XD sorry

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@deathhero61: Actually Azula has a ton of feats, but problem was most of them were moot because Mako was here who isn't better, but is for sure a person who could stop Azula's good attacks that justice could of used as examples as to why she would out do bolin. Anyway not gonna argue or anything just point it out. Azula was basically a main character for 2 avatar seasons and has plenty of feats just not shown enough is all.

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justicethorpsylocke

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@killerwasp: agreed. I had forgoten some of the bros feats

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@arcus: yeah, I'm giving my vote to you on this one for having a much stronger argument. JTP still needs to work on his debating skills

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@justicethorpsylocke: @arcus: I vote for arcus.

JTP: Instead of saying "here she fights Aang" or something, say something like "Azula, without any firebending, was able to evade Aang for a prolonged period of time. This will help in the fight here because she can shoot fireballs in midair while deflecting Mako's less powerful blasts, and use Bolin's rocks as leverage" or something like that.

Arcus: I don't know why you don't CaV more often. You could make a serious run for the HOF if you just did more of them. Excellent work as always

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Arcus1

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@justicethorpsylocke: @arcus: I vote for arcus.

Arcus: I don't know why you don't CaV more often. You could make a serious run for the HOF if you just did more of them. Excellent work as always

Thanks man, I might be doing some more of them in the future

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@thenewbluebeetle007: and by the way, if you want to criticize me, don't undersell me. I gave alot of opinions across multiple paragraphs. I'm probably gonna regret posting this bc I'll get more people to swarm saying I can't debate but whatever

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@thenewbluebeetle007: and by the way, if you want to criticize me, don't undersell me. I gave alot of opinions across multiple paragraphs. I'm probably gonna regret posting this bc I'll get more people to swarm saying I can't debate but whatever

calm down. I'm not underselling you, just giving you my opinion. It doesn't matter what you say, if it doesn't get across to the voters.

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@thenewbluebeetle007: to me that sounds like it defeats the purpose of debating. Formatting to make people more inclined to read doesn't mean that I'm automatically going be a better debater(not pointing any fingers or anything) If someone skips posts of mine or chooses to ignore something I say that might change their mine or that displays a legit argument, that isn't on me and it's not something that can be worked on. I'm not aiming this toward you directly

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TheNewBlueBeetle007

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@thenewbluebeetle007: to me that sounds like it defeats the purpose of debating. Formatting to make people more inclined to read doesn't mean that I'm automatically going be a better debater(not pointing any fingers or anything) If someone skips posts of mine or chooses to ignore something I say that might change their mine or that displays a legit argument, that isn't on me and it's not something that can be worked on. I'm not aiming this toward you directly

take it from someone who does high school debate in real life: delivery matters quite a bit in debating. People are generally lazy and don't want to read big blocks of text. Similarly, if someone lays out all their contention in a smooth, easy to follow manner, their points will be read better.

If you want formatting tips, you can check out some of TheTrueBarryAllen or CosmicallyAware1's debates.

Again, just trying to help. It wasn't too long ago that I was a novice like you :)

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MetalJimmor

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@arcus: gets my vote.

Aside from his gif wizardry making his posts look better and easier to read he also took the time to explain each individual feat and why it helped support his argument. His opponent, on the other hand, just posted videos and pointed out feats without any further explanation as to how the feats were distinctly superior to what Arcus was showing us, nor letting us know how the feats would come into play during the battle.

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Just_Banter

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I guess @arcus gets my vote, he made it pretty clear that the whole 1 v 1 thing most likely wasn't gonna happen and their teamwork should be able to overcome any advantage Azula might have

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Sean12345

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Lvenger

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@arcus easily gets my vote for better laid out arguments, clear rebuttals, strong presentation of evidence and a coherent case throughout. I felt his opponent got quite desperate as the debate went on and didn't do enough to fully reply to Arcus' arguments or add enough detail to his evidence in order to explain why his feats for Azula prove she can defeat The Bending Bros.

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Linark

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@arcus did a better case. I would still give this to Azula, you know how i feel about TLoK bending :P but im voting for you in this one. Ill tell you when ive got time to do a big one with loads of showings, videos and stuff so we can put a nice avatar fight to test! ATLA vs TOLK

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Jacthripper

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@arcus: pretty obviously won the debate. But good job to justicethorpsylocke, he did admirably against the Vine's resident Avatar expert

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Arcus1

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Rayox21

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I don't know if I can vote but my vote goes to @arcus.

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Arcus1

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@rayox21: Yep, anyone can vote. Thanks for voting!