Vs
@veshark: Cap has stated that John wasn't as skilled as him when they met during World War II.
He also noticed that he even lost the few skills that he had before
And yet John Steele still beats him
There is nothing to my knowledge to indicate that Ultimate Cap isn't as equally skilled as 616 Captain America although I'd have to confirm that with @cadencev2. Even if he isn't I think I've people who are stronger than 616 Captain America can beat him even if there not as skilled as him
I never said that John Steele was as skilled as Cap - I just said that he should have a fair amount of skills in terms of HTH, as shown in your scans above. I don't see how he doesn't have any 'real H2H skills', because all that first scan implies is that Steele didn't have the same level of combat training as Cap did, not that he didn't have any. Even with some of his moves gone, he still demonstrates a fair amount of HTH capability - giving a haymaker and elbowing Cap at the knee joint.
But that's a topic for another day. As I stated in my first post, I do actually think that Ultimate Cap would take a majority against his counterpart simply because of his tendency to fight dirty and his deadly superhuman strength. I do agree that 616-Cap's HTH skills can only take him so far. But I still maintain that he has a slight edge in terms of fighting ability, and while Steele is one example where his skills couldn't overcome, he has shown in other instances that he can.
Here are two scans of Captain America (without his shield no less), defeating an entire tavern of Asgardian trolls, who are physically stronger than him and also outnumber him.
In short, while I do agree that Ultimate Cap would likely beat 616-Cap, I just wanted to note that I think 616 Cap would at least be able to hold Ultimate Cap off long enough with his superior training. Ultimate Cap is no slouch in the HTH department, but Cap himself surpasses him based on feats alone.
@veshark: Cap has stated that John wasn't as skilled as him when they met during World War II.
He also noticed that he even lost the few skills that he had before
And yet John Steele still beats him
There is nothing to my knowledge to indicate that Ultimate Cap isn't as equally skilled as 616 Captain America although I'd have to confirm that with @cadencev2. Even if he isn't I think I've people who are stronger than 616 Captain America can beat him even if there not as skilled as him
This is a poor showing. John Steele is wayyyyy more durable than the both of them. The fight with Protocide would be a better example of how 616 vs 1610 would go. 616 Cap has the skills advantage and with the strength and brute force advantage of 1610 Cap, he has the ability to close that gap quickly. With that said team 1 wins in the end. 616 Cap can hold on long enough for 616 Spiderman to beat 1610 Spiderman.
I never said that John Steele was as skilled as Cap - I just said that he should have a fair amount of skills in terms of HTH, as shown in your scans above. I don't see how he doesn't have any 'real H2H skills', because all that first scan implies is that Steele didn't have the same level of combat training as Cap did, not that he didn't have any. Even with some of his moves gone, he still demonstrates a fair amount of HTH capability - giving a haymaker and elbowing Cap at the knee joint.
But that's a topic for another day. As I stated in my first post, I do actually think that Ultimate Cap would take a majority against his counterpart simply because of his tendency to fight dirty and his deadly superhuman strength. I do agree that 616-Cap's HTH skills can only take him so far. But I still maintain that he has a slight edge in terms of fighting ability, and while Steele is one example where his skills couldn't overcome, he has shown in other instances that he can.
Here are two scans of Captain America (without his shield no less), defeating an entire tavern of Asgardian trolls, who are physically stronger than him and also outnumber him.
In short, while I do agree that Ultimate Cap would likely beat 616-Cap, I just wanted to note that I think 616 Cap would at least be able to hold Ultimate Cap off long enough with his superior training. Ultimate Cap is no slouch in the HTH department, but Cap himself surpasses him based on feats alone.
I have one better.
Cap and Depowered Thor battle the entire Underworld Army of Asgardians collected by Hela.
BAMSKY!
@cadencev2: If you are talking about new ways to die Peter was shot multiple times because osborns men were using special tracer bullets which followed spider-man around. He couldn't dodge them so he had to angle his body in the right position where bullseyes glass and osborns bullets missed his vital organs IIRC.
The punisher showing is true all though that is mainly back in the day when Peter wasn't that experienced and didn't use his agility the way he does now. He did lose recently in punisher war zone admittedly but he was stomping punisher until punisher used some weird explosive weapon (some huge area of effect weapon). And Peter was toying with him for some reason (I would argue plot since Peter has one shotted punisher before and the premiss of that series was punisher vs the avengers).
No...
Just Saying......
Spider Man is inconsistent as ****.
@cadencev2: That is from new ways to die. Peter had just been shot like 10 times.
He is hardly 100% here.
@cadencev2: If you are talking about new ways to die Peter was shot multiple times because osborns men were using special tracer bullets which followed spider-man around. He couldn't dodge them so he had to angle his body in the right position where bullseyes glass and osborns bullets missed his vital organs IIRC.
The punisher showing is true all though that is mainly back in the day when Peter wasn't that experienced and didn't use his agility the way he does now. He did lose recently in punisher war zone admittedly but he was stomping punisher until punisher used some weird explosive weapon (some huge area of effect weapon). And Peter was toying with him for some reason (I would argue plot since Peter has one shotted punisher before and the premiss of that series was punisher vs the avengers).
No...
Just Saying......
Spider Man is inconsistent as ****.
And Ultimate Pete couldn't even harm the Kingpin with his hits.
That inconsistency runs both ways.
Yeah Wonder-Woman is a funny one. I recall her as being Bullet Proof in some issues, but not in others. For example, she was Bullet Proof in Injustice Gods among Us, although that's not cannon.
Umm in their first encounter he struck him several times, and not one of his blows made the Kingpin budge. What makes the Kingpin of the Ultimate verse super human?
Ult. Spidey has also been outright humiliated by Elektra before. While Ult. Elektra is very skilled, she's not on the level of 616 Iron Fist, who Spider-man has consistently fought well against.
He also struggled to KO Ox and was laid low for a while after being grazed by a bullet. He was hospitalized after taking one bullet. 616 Pete took several, got hit by those knives from Bullseye, and still managed to take down the Green Goblin on that same day.
Ult. Pete is not as great as you're making him out to be. He's impressive yes, but he's also inexperienced and is outclassed by 616 Spider-man.
1) King Pin is superhuman in the fact he can rip Spider Mans webbing apart, Webbing that holds car weights with no probe. King Pin also has ripped the very STONE/CONCRETE block work from the wall in a awkward position that should allow very little use of strength.
Yeah, he is clearly just peak human alright..... not even close.
2) Spider Man has never been Humiliated by Electra.
1st Encounter. Spider Man had his powers for all 2-3 months! Electra hardly owns the very Premature Pete here.
2nd Encounter. Spider Man tries to talk to her the whole time! Does not even put up a fight, She runs!
3rd fight. Spider PWNS Electra and King Pin!
So where is the Humiliation again? I am not seeing it. Is it when Spider Man was using his powers in months? Or was it when he outright owned Electra when he stop playing around?
3) He was laid low by a buulet? You mean when he was shot for the first time? LOL he had no clue about his Healing Factor then. He had no clue he would heal in days which he did. Whats your point? Spidey took a .50 Cal Sniper Rifle to the gut and Cap stated he would be fine in a few days of healing. 616 Spider has just as bad showings being hit by bullets.
4) You clearly have VERY LITTLE CLUE on Ultimate Spider Man or desperately trying to prove a point you dont have.
I seriously just shot down all your points that easy.
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