Captain America&Winter Soldier(mcu) vs Arrow&Arsenal(Cw)

Only he did. When a guy is hit and he takes over 4-5 seconds to get up, that can be said as taking some time to get up. In the elevator scene, the guy didn't take a second to get up.

@lunacyde: Roy has sucked this season. I'm looking for a major jump in improvement. I hope maybe he goes through the getting his arm cutoff thing and upgrades with guns and stuff. He got beat up by Cupid off panel and then was horrible vs Chase & Thea performed much better in the same fight. :/ I want Roy to be bad***. I almost have this bad feeling like soon after Laurel gets training from Nyssa she's gonna be better than Roy & I am gonna lose my ****.

Lmao ok, firstly, Barry is a scientist who got super speed because of a bolt of lightning, and at the time of their fight, had only a few months worth of experience (not even taking into account the fact that 90% of the time Barry doesn't even need to fight when apprehending criminals.) Cap and Bucky are both WW2 vets, plus Bucky has a plethora of experience through his 60+ years of assassin work. I would like to think they would be a bit better equipped than Barry when it comes to dealing with a few preplaced crossbows.

Secondly, he did know who was on the island. He'd set the traps for Fyers and his mercenaries, not on the off-chance he'd catch the boogeyman.

This doesn't disprove PIS at all. You literally just made a breakdown of the fight and slapped Not PIS on each line.

Oliver didn't react to Barry when Barry bullrushed him. He swung and Barry dodged. Stop trying to change it.

@thebutterycanadian_:

Cap and Bucky are both WW2 vets, plus Bucky has a plethora of experience through his 60+ years of assassin work. I would like to think they would be a bit better equipped than Barry when it comes to dealing with a few preplaced crossbows.

So, every WW2 veteran, when entering a battlefield checks for hidden crossbows in bushes? Didn't know that.

Secondly, he did know who was on the island. He'd set the traps for Fyers and his mercenaries, not on the off-chance he'd catch the boogeyman.

Fyers and his mercenaries were taken out by Slade and Oliver in his very first year on Lian Yu. And I doubt Oliver knew how to place traps back then. Especially the ones that would surely kill the victim considering his morals during his first year on island. Those traps were for anybody who was unfortunate enough to be on Lian Yu. Be it a boar or a man.

This doesn't disprove PIS at all. You literally just made a breakdown of the fight and slapped Not PIS on each line.

I also explained why its not a PIS before slapping Not PIS. You're welcome to try and prove any of them as PIS.

Why would Barry run towards Oliver and not try to attack him. Especially when he did exactly same thing later in the fight.

Even though you're right, Oliver still managed to "swing" his bow at the very moment Barry reached him. Seems like reacting to me.

@rbt: Because he was dancing around him for a good minute before Oliver hit him? And Oliver started his swing before Barry got there.

Has anyone seen the new Avengers 2 trailer where Cap throws a motorcycle? He gets upgraded every movie. I don't even think comic Cap could throw one that effortlessly.

Steve and Bucky.

It seemed to me like Oliver tried to move out of the way and his hand moved in the process. But since there is no way to prove this, I'll concede.

What bothers me about that scene is that the bike actually looked to be standing still before Cap did a flip and threw it. How was Cap balancing it?

@rbt: It does look like the bike is at a complete stop because the trees aren't moving. Maybe he slammed the breaks and flew forward with the momentum. Either way that is ridiculous strength that Cap isn't supposed to have.

@rbt: you and I have very different definitions of "getting right back up."

Also, that guy didn't even take the taser for as long as Cap did and again, he's also not an average size man, he's a shield agent. You'd have to watch agents of shield to know that the team Cap had to fight against has above average durability for an elite commando unit.

Anyways, I think we both agree that you left out or never noticed an important detail of the elevator scene and rumlow landing two hits after what Cap had to go through does not prove he's unskilled. If we both don't agree, at least everyone else that reads through this thread will realize there's an "*" to your post and will be able to fact check on their own.

That would explain how Cap was able to throw the bike that far.

Might be questionable for 616 cap, but MCU cap's strength seems to be closer to his Ultimate counterpart making it not out of the question for his abilities.

@rbt: @tayssti: Agree on the Ultimate Cap part. I think it would have been easier with the bike having forward motion.

@slimj87d:

you and I have very different definitions of "getting right back up."

What is your definition of getting right back up?

Also, that guy didn't even take the taser for as long as Cap did and again, he's also not an average size man, he's a shield agent.

No he's not. But the durability gap between a big man and Cap is huge. If a guy whose durability and pain tolerance is no where close to Steve got ready to fight after getting tazed for a couple seconds, just how much effect would it have on Steve?

Anyways, I think we both agree that you left out or never noticed an important detail of the elevator scene and rumlow landing two hits after what Cap had to go through does not prove he's unskilled.

I never said Steve was unskilled. I just said that he relies a lot on his physicals. He can take down a room full of men, so can Oliver, but its more impressive when Oliver does it. Why? Because Oliver cannot afford to take hits from one man while hitting the other. He might get KOed. He also doesn't have the luxury to send a man flying outside the battle area. Cap does.

Actually, it'd be much harder if the bike was going forward. When Steve slammed the brakes(assuming he slammed the brakes), all the momentum of bike got transferred to him which would make it much easier for Cap to give that momentum a direction. I can get into detail but I won't seeing that we don't even know what happened.

Steve and Bucky stomp easily, it could go either way if ROY has mirikuru

@stormdriven: Agreed.

@rbt: I'm keeping this short. You said Oliver has done what Cap has done and have presented the elevator scene but failed to show Oliver fight in a scenario anywhere remotely close. Show me a equivalent of the elevator scene since you keep trying to use it. Otherwise, please don't tag me in your next post unless if you're going to admit it was a bad comparison and argument.

-_-

Also centrifugal-force helped a lot. But he did throw that bike with a pretty massive velocity seeing as it didn't get pummeled off the road by the Jeep but was instead impaled into it.

Indeed the momentum helped him set the attack up, but a motorcycle going at 120 MPH wouldn't cause that kind of damage to the hummer unaided. It's also called centripetal force :p.

Chris Evans did say Cap can lift and more than likely throw motorcycles with one hand in an interview.

In terms of the character, Joss helped write the first Captain America and not only that, he’s fanboy, you know what I mean? He loves comic books so it’s not like you’re talking to someone who might not have a handle of what audiences want and who this character is at his core. The only thing I kind of talked to him about was his ability consistency. You know, with the second Captain America we really pushed the envelope in terms of what this guy is capable of – which I was excited to see ‘cause in the first Captain America he’s just strong. In Avengers it was still in my opinion a little bit punch, punch, kick, kick.

It’s like fine but, you know, you just can’t be Jason Bourne. We gotta see this guy do stuff that’s like ‘yeah, he deserves a spot on this squad.’ You know, in Captain two he’s pinballing off of Quinjets and taking down, you know, doing unbelievable things. I don’t wanna take a step back so we gotta make sure that it seems that he’s continuing training. His fight style needs to advance a little bit. I don’t wanna go full Bruce Lee but there needs to be more than just haymakers and front kicks. There needs to be a style of fight. There needs to be a consistent display of strength, you know, utilize your environment in a way that’s like ‘that’s right, he can pick up a motorcycle with one hand.’

Let’s not forget that I can’t get punched by a human and get knocked down. It just doesn’t make sense to me. So that’s the only thing and that’s a tough thing to, to manage, to try to remember. You know, even in Avengers, I punched a heavy bag across a room. If I hit a person they’re not getting back up. It’s just the way it’s gonna go. We can’t do this any other way. That’s it. Just trying to keep your finger on that pulse and it’s tricky with all these characters.

The fact that the jeep was coming from the opposite direction helped a lot too. If the jeep was standing still, the bike wouldn't have done that much damage.

MCU Team both rounds

Oh yes, the combined velocity of both the jeep and the bike helped create what I assume was a 40 kmph car-crash. Still pretty awesome strength and dexterity feat.
I assume the velocity of both objects were equal, close-to-equal?

Indeed. Its probably Cap's best strength feat in MCU.

Seemed like the jeep was moving a bit faster. But there is no way to say for sure.

How, if you don't mind me asking? Centrifugal force is the tendency of an object following a curved path to fly away from the center of curvature, which is what the bike did iirc. Whereas, Centripetal force is the force that keeps an object moving with a uniform speed along a circular path.
I must be missing something here.

I don't have time to explain every single mechanic, but just know that

1/2 * m * v^2 = kinetic energy.

The Hummer has a lot more mass than the motorcycle, even if they are going at the same speeds, the hummer should not have stopped like it did, it would have continue to keep going. Cap would have had to throw the motorcycle with enough velocity to match the kinetic energy of the hummer, which means if you did estimate the velocity of the hummer then the velocity the motorcycle traveled at would be estimated to be

vmotor = Vhummer * sqrt [m hummer / m motorcycle]

If fully worked out, more than likely Cap would have added to the velocity when he spun and pitched the motorcycle. The equation would be more refined if I used impulse mechanics.

@WarBlade539: Centrifugal is the force in and out of the circle. It is only one half of the equation. Tangential momentum is the one you just described, it is the second force.

Both together make centripetal. The blue arrow you see is the tangential direction.

This thread is spite. Cap and TWS stomp both rounds.

@slimj87d: Sweet. Thanks for clearing that up. :)

@WarBlade539: That's a fantastic ****ing GIF! Thanks!

Prep generally doesn't entail prior battlefield access. If it did then both teams would instantly lose the moment they showed via explosives...

The two stage arrow is just what Arrow used vs Flash. An arrow that he fires that misses and then fires an arrow in the opposite direction.

So my argument is that team Arrow would be able to accurately miss twice before team 1 would win. Both have terrible marksmanship feats in comparison. It starts at 30 ft. So it's much more likely that team 1 charges in for melee anyways.

@wrglfan2814: Or, you know, explosive arrows that he fires at their feet... or just behind them. Or pyro arrows that would engulf Cap's shield. Or net arrows followed up by either of the previous?

Team Arrow has tons of AoE and actual quickdraw feats. Team MCU has basically none.

There's no intel in either round. Cap hasn't shown any particularly impressive battle plans on the fly in the MCU as of yet. Cap hasn't been shown to have mastered any martial arts... He's a skilled fighter with slightly superhuman stats.

What do Bucky or Cap have that can actually allow them to successfully fight defensively from 30 feet from team Arrow?

Their best chance is either to start with grenade launching AoE of their own (doesn't happen because standard rifle mounted grenade launchers have minimum explosive distances which are further than 30 ft) or to close in fast.

Not rushing in would be a huge mistake, as team Arrow has the marksmanship feats to easily tag them with AoE.

Cap and Bucky. And it's not even close.

Added in mirakuru for Roy from the suggestions of some forumers for balance.

@wrglfan2814: Prep never implies info unless the OP expressly states it.

Showing skill in a couple martial arts is not difficult. Assuming mastery is unsubstantiated.

Delfecting and dodging arrows is fine. All Ollie and Roy have to do is aim at their feet/slightly behind them. Fully in character btw, Ollie has done that before.

Shooting out tires is unimpressive and the starting distance when not stated is automatically assumed to be 30 ft.

Pyro/Net arrows aren't going to be tanked. Follow up explosives will end it. AoE from explosives will knock them off balance long enough for a bloodlusted Team 2 to win it.

I agree with most of this. Only things I'd like to point out would be that we don't really know anything about Ultron yet. Isabel was pretty pathetic across the board, and lastly, Cap's shield's feats were kind of inconsistent. It has both penetrated metal and bounced off of humans. I'm not saying the Arrow crew wins the first round because I don't think they do and more so saying Roy with Mirakuru prevents this from being close to a mismatch.

Still Team MCU