Bloodshot VS Ninjak

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Ultimate_Knight

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#51  Edited By Ultimate_Knight

@theendgame said:

@avenging_knight: All very good points. Yes I am on my phone and most of my stuff is on my tablet. But I guess I gave so many examples because while he hasn't really done so in a fight he has a lot of those feats. So I guess hypothetically I was thinking he could do it. But maybe that's against his "in character" abilities. And yes, Kozol did detonate Genius' implant it was generally accepted that Bloodshot could do it pretty easily. Hence the firewall that would prevent him from doing it to the rest of them. He also stated in the issue where they had their stand off that he was able to easily by pass their firewall and could detonate their implants if he wanted to. But he didn't so I guess there really isn't anything tangible in terms of him actually executing this while actually in combat.

The times I've seen him use his nanites in battle would be his fight against amalgam which I discount because Livewire was helping him. Against Big Boy which I think might be the most relevant here. His fight against the sleeper cells in #24 and Harada which most on this board would say was PIS.

So let's say for lack of battle feats we'll eliminate his hacking to a certain degree. But as I'm sure you remember since issue #24 head shots don't have the stopping power they once did. In that issue he is executed at point blank range with a shot to the back of the head. He also was also shot in the head at a security point when he was posing as an old man. While in the first instance it took him a few seconds to regain his composure, the second time he return fired immediately killing the guards while shot through the head.

I think that Bloodshots speed, reaction time and skill as displayed against Archer and Armstrong could give him enough time without being fully decapitated.

Let's say Ninjak gets a few swipes and stabs into Bloodshot. He most certainly will. Bloodshots nanite will eventually get on Ninjak. And while I'm willing to discount Bloodshots ability to hack from a distance, he has shown with his fight with Big Boy in "Get Some" and his fight with Harada that he can use nanite infection if he can come close enough.

Obviously with Ninjaks recent run he is more than capable of bringing the fight to someone who is physically superior to himself and come out on top. I just think that like you said, if Ninjak is able to end it quickly it gives him the best chance of winning. But with Bloodshots experience and abilities I don't think he'll get decapitated right off the bat. Even if Ninjak gets a clean head shot but doesn't do enough damage it might not be over. For these reasons I give Bloodshot the majority.

These are two of my favorites here. I can't wait to see how they use them together in a couple months.

I forgot about his fights with Archer and Armstrong. I certainly believe this raises Bloodshot's chances of winning a close quarters combat scenario with Ninjak, but not as high as I think. Armstrong, from what I know, is more of a brute fighter, is not as fast as Ninjak, alsmot in all his fights uses blunt force attacks, and does not have any bladed weapons to do better damage to Bloodshot. When Archer fought Bloodshot in close quarters combat, I think Archer only used Krav Maga to Bloodshot and not any other martial art because that was the only "text box thing" that popped up during their hand to hand fight. Though I am not sure how fast Archer is compared to Ninjak, other than the fact that he was able to react to bullets fired by a H.A.R.D. Corps squad by making a psionic shield, but compared to this, which was most likely in mid-range, Archer reacted to bullets fired from a farther distance, I guess 20ft. far. Bloodshot remarks in the scenario that he is not the type to use martial arts, so he quickly goes back to using his guns. So there. If Bloodshot quickly resorts to firearms after a little martial arts is unleashed by him, he has a very clear shot at Ninjak's head, but then again Ninjak has deflected a bullet in mid-range before, but then again that was only ONE bullet and in mid-range, so Bloodshot could spray handgun bullets to Ninjak and get an almost guarantee kill shot at the head.

Nanite infection I believe guarantees a win for Bloodshot, but I will try to address it. What Toyo Harada did to save himself from Nanite infection is by transferring the nanites at another person. What if Ninjak thinks of transferring the nanites back to Bloodshot? How can he do that? I will get to a possibility of how he can do it. It was implied in the entire "Colorado" and "The Hunt" story-arcs from Bloodshot Reborn (2015) that the nanites want to return to Bloodshot, even if Bloodshot himself does not want them back at first.

I believe that Toyo Harada used his powers to specifically get rid of the nanite infected blood. It was stated in Book of Death: The Fall of Ninjak (2015) that Ninjak can control every cell in his body. This also means for sure that he can make the infected blood flow out of an open wound and into Bloodshot. But that is just a theory, and we are not entirely sure if Ninjak will do it or if his current version even knows how to do it.

I would also like to mention the fact that Ninjak has some sort of "nanites" of his own that he can probably transfer to Bloodshot. But, all it is stated to do is track that person and nothing else. Ninjak also did not use it in a middle of a fight, so even if it can do more versatile useful functions like EMP or release a virus, Ninjak might not use it. There is also that possibility that the needle Ninjak used is not tough enough to get through Bloodshot's skin. Lastly, the nanites might be more powerful than Ninjak's own "nanites" so it gets scrapped withing Bloodshot's blood.

So I believe nanite infection, if Bloodshot thinks of using it, is a guarantee win for him, but the question remains "will he use this tactic?"

And I also want to see how Bloodshot and Ninjak's relationship will go.

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theendgame

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@avenging_knight: I thought that new ability was pretty sweet. But didn't Ninjak seek out that knowledge because he had cancer? That way he could keep it from spreading through his body? Either way if we wanna use that I'm sure he could fight the infection to some degree. However, in Bloodshot reborn 8 while his nanites wanted to return to him he was able to allow them to heal Magic first before collecting them. So either someone has to be pretty powerful to redirect the nanites in order to pass them to another host (since Big Boy succumbed pretty easily) or Bloodshot would need to willingly accept them back. Then it comes down to who has more influence over the nanites.

This shits gettin pretty deep.

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Ultimate_Knight

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@avenging_knight: I thought that new ability was pretty sweet. But didn't Ninjak seek out that knowledge because he had cancer? That way he could keep it from spreading through his body? Either way if we wanna use that I'm sure he could fight the infection to some degree. However, in Bloodshot reborn 8 while his nanites wanted to return to him he was able to allow them to heal Magic first before collecting them. So either someone has to be pretty powerful to redirect the nanites in order to pass them to another host (since Big Boy succumbed pretty easily) or Bloodshot would need to willingly accept them back. Then it comes down to who has more influence over the nanites.

This shits gettin pretty deep.

So in conclusion: Bloodshot's nanite infection trick will work for Ninjak, I can agree with this. Ninjak has no degree of technopathy to control influence the nanites to some degree. If things are getting deep, they become interesting, and interest garners new people to look into that interesting thing, so new fans for Ninjak and Bloodshot generate, and they might use them for their own battle threads.

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theendgame

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@avenging_knight: I think if they were given prep this would end up entirely different. Bloodshot while not totally inept when it comes to prep it usually doesn't suit his character to be super prepared. Ninjak would clean up if he could plan out this match.

And I agree 100 with that on creating some awareness for these characters. I've tried to with some others but it never seems to build up any steam. Thanks.

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k4tzm4n

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#55 k4tzm4n  Moderator

Giving this a bump now that there have been way more comics featuring the two.

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deactivated-5e8a1f5fafc4e

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The following breakdown is not relating to any newer upgrades Bloodshot has e.g his wings. I'm basically talking about the more conventional Bloodshot we've had up until recently. I would be interested to hear an argument for the most recent Bloodshot.

Ninjak wins via decapitation/amputation, and/or some creative use of technology which as of Ninja-K #11 now includes EMPs. Unless Bloodshot somewhere along the road gained a resistance/immunity to EMPs, that alone should seal the deal - I recall a very early Bloodshot comic where PRS used a large scale EMP that shut down Bloodshot's nanites.

Ninjak knows Bloodshot very well by this point in time, which means he is guaranteed to have a detailed log on Bloodshot - including all of his capabilities and weaknesses. He had the same kind of logs for his teammates like X-O Manowar and the Eternal Warrior, and even has failsafes to deal with them built into his standard weapons and armor.

Setting aside superior equipment/tactics/planning - even in a straight up sword fight, Ninjak should definitely win. Bloodshot's regen and superhuman stats should make it challenging, but there is a large skill disparity at play here. Ninjak has been put through the ringer many, many times at this point - stabbed, beaten to a pulp by metahumans and so on and still managing to fight at close to peak capacity. His armor lets him soak up punches much harder than even Bloodshot's, and a stab wound from Bloodshot is like a stab wound from anyone else. So whatever hits Bloodshot does get in will not be decisive until the end of a long, brutal fight, and I would argue Ninjak is far too skilled to let the fight go on that long.

Most recently, Ninjak has beaten the Dying One twice while they possessed the Eternal Warrior's body. The Eternal Warrior who is at least as fast, strong and tough as Bloodshot, but also vastly more experienced and knowledgeable in combat, and more skilled as a fighter. It was confirmed by a few sources that the Dying One had access to all of Gilad's "muscle memory", "skills" and "might" during these fights, so Ninjak beating him twice - the first time an ambush, the second time an ambush right after the first fight where Ninjak had injuries to deal with - kind of goes to show that all the superhuman stats in the world won't save you if your opponent has the skill and equipment to put you down.

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AllStarSuperman

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Bloodshot got taken down by the knife wielding chick back in Bloodshot and The HARD Corps arc. She cut his tendons faster than he can heal. Ninjak should be able to do the same exact thing.

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AValiantImge

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Ninjak. Modern Bloodshot is just a very durable fast healing bullet sponge without the speed, skill or strength of his classic counter part.