black panther vs Iron fist

to death

BP

iron fist

Black Panther.

You all make very convincing arguments ;)

well do tho the whole captian america vs bp trend, i tend to avoid bp trends, since the fanboys with go nut-o.

"IMO" any comicbook system that labels a charcther as one of its best hand to hand fighters/martial artist,ie iron fist, he is on par wih shang chi of marvel. Which version of iron fist are we talking about, i am assuming the bp is using his latest self?

i do hope that people will not say his iron fist will hurt....."i would like to avoid that meanless issue"

this battle is farther flaw, "IMO" because some might say he can only form or make his fist as hard as iron, hence his name..keeping in mind that he was made when the martila arts where big or comming into action. In comics iron fist has done powerful things, in maxium carange he comes crowds down just by looking at them.

I feel that iron fist takes this fights, hes a "ma" and sericous one at that, guys like that train sun up to sun down, on cold mountian or blazes deserts.

and if it to the death i really feel its iron fist

They fought already and Black Panther won. I usually don't go solely by previous battles because circumstances (whatever is making two good guys fight, for example) alter the outcome and people generally win in their own books. However, looking at the fight, the whole thing made sense. Iron Fist had his powers amped by Black Dragon, and was also turned evil. He didn't lose his skills or ability to think straight or anything, he was just turned evil. Black Dragon had changed him for the primary purpose of taking out Black Panther. They fought and they both got jacked up. The iron fist can apparently damage BP's vibranium costume, and IF was tossing out dozens of them (which he can't normally do). It can also block BP's energy dagger (when set to stun, he didn't set it to kill). BP knew Iron Fist wasn't himself so he wasn't trying to kill (never used his claws, never used his dagger on setting higher than "stun", and didn't vibrate IF's head to mush any of the 3 times he had the chance), but IF was trying to kill. BP eventually beat him by slipping his ear piece into Iron Fist's mask and hitting him with sonics to knock him out. Right before that, he'd taken a dervish of iron fists and been hit by a car, so after the battle was over and Iron Fist had passed out, BP fell to the ground. (He woke up first too.)

I'm not using this fight as the only reason Black Panther wins, but it's a piece of evidence that backs up the reasons I think he'd win. BP is faster and more agile than IF (other than the car and the storm of iron fists, Black Panther only got hit once), he's just as good a fighter (he was able to block almost every strike IF made while landing blows on him), he's a creative thinker (using the ear piece for a knockout and other things), he has weapons (he didn't use them to their fullest since he wasn't trying to kill, but he has them), and he has greater defense (his costume will stop any of IF's attacks short of a full on iron fist, something he can't do nearly as much as he did in the comic). There's probably more, but I think that's good.

And just because you don't like who we think will win doesn't make us fanboys, Sync.

Yeah Sync.

Don't you know that Black Panther can beat anyone!! He is the ultimate everything in the Marvel Universe, just ask Sling Shot

To the death, Iron Fist I think, since Iron Fist has all the power stuff and such.

Valkaad says:

"Don't you know that Black Panther can beat anyone!! He is the ultimate everything in the Marvel Universe, just ask Sling Shot"

Why don't you find a logical reason that he can't win this fight (or the Cap one since you're obviously still mad about that) instead of being a sarcastic ass.
Post Edited:2007-05-21 20:11:03

HA! Good point, Buckshot is winnin' so far!

I'm not mad about the Captain thing. Sling shot was the one who made it into a world issue. I just think the fact that the two of you argued that BP would beat Captain America showed that you think he would beat anyone (within reason). And just as a parting shot your argument for superman "he's "the best" because he was created to be so", is the EXACT reason Captain America would beat BP. As far as being a smart ass I'm really just having fun and not trying to be a real ass.

I do agree with you that BP would beat Iron Fist.

Ouch, he pulled the sincere card. That always hurts. I still think Iron Fist has got it here.

Valkaad says:

"I'm not mad about the Captain thing. Sling shot was the one who made it into a world issue. I just think the fact that the two of you argued that BP would beat Captain America showed that you think he would beat anyone (within reason). And just as a parting shot your argument for superman "he's "the best" because he was created to be so", is the EXACT reason Captain America would beat BP. As far as being a smart ass I'm really just having fun and not trying to be a real ass. "

The fact that I argued that BP would beat Cap shows that I think he would beat Cap. Assuming that I think he can beat anyone based on his ability to beat Captain America is foolish.

Phorqe was complaining about Superman having all these powers and being able to beat anyone and being "the best". I was saying that he's "the best" because he was made that way. Superman is not actually the best, which is proven by the fact that he's been beaten many times, but he was created to look like it, that's why he's got all the powers. Likewise, Captain America was made to be "the best" a human can be, but that doesn't mean he's actually the best or that he can't be beaten. I said that in the Cap/BP thread.

"Assuming that I think he can beat anyone based on his ability to beat Captain America is foolish."

Did you see the part where I said within reason. The fact that you think BP would beat Captain America is "foolish".

Not really, it is within reason, neither are "super-powered" so they are on a fairly equal playing field.

Valkaad says:

""Assuming that I think he can beat anyone based on his ability to beat Captain America is foolish."Did you see the part where I said within reason. The fact that you think BP would beat Captain America is "foolish"."

"Anyone (within reason)" sounds contradictory to me. You're putting a limit on who he can beat, so that's not "anyone." Besides that, I don't even know what you think is "within reason."

My foolishness is backed up by logic that has yet to be disproved, so I'll take it.

You, Buckshot, are truly a master debater!

octagon_enigma says:

"Not really, it is within reason, neither are "super-powered" so they are on a fairly equal playing field."

couldn't be more wrong. Cap is the best (as far as humans go) no contest. In a fight, no supersuit and no shield, Black Panther would fight well but he would lose.

But to be more on topic, Black Panther would beat Iron Fist.

Valkaad says:

"octagon_enigma says:

"Not really, it is within reason, neither are "super-powered" so they are on a fairly equal playing field."

couldn't be more wrong. Cap is the best (as far as humans go) no contest. In a fight, no supersuit and no shield, Black Panther would fight well but he would lose.

"

How so? Experience? BP has experience as well, he also has razor-sharp talons.

Valkaad says:

"octagon_enigma says:

"Not really, it is within reason, neither are "super-powered" so they are on a fairly equal playing field."

couldn't be more wrong. Cap is the best (as far as humans go) no contest. In a fight, no supersuit and no shield, Black Panther would fight well but he would lose.

"

Too bad the fight never made those the conditions. Nevertheless, I feel BP's superior speed, agility and far greater intelligence would more than balance Cap's superior strength and allegedly greater endurance.

Buckshot says:

"Valkaad says:

"octagon_enigma says:

"Not really, it is within reason, neither are "super-powered" so they are on a fairly equal playing field."

couldn't be more wrong. Cap is the best (as far as humans go) no contest. In a fight, no supersuit and no shield, Black Panther would fight well but he would lose. "

Too bad the fight never made those the conditions. Nevertheless, I feel BP's superior speed, agility and far greater intelligence would more than balance Cap's superior strength and allegedly greater endurance."

Where do you get that BP has superior speed? Captain America is faster than BP his reaction time is 10 times faster than a normal humans. Just becasue Cap is bigger and stronger doesn't mean he is slower. And Caps agility IS greater than BP's. The only thing I will concede is that BP is smarter, so he could probably beat cap on Jeopardy. My argument the whole time (go back to the thread) has been based on a man to man fight no weapons no suits just hand to hand.

Captain America is the marvel universe's "ULTIMATE Human Combatant". Look up ultimate in the dictionary if you need to.

I get it from him fighting speedsters, regularly beating many martial artists in hand to hand combat, seeing him run alongside wild animals (rhinos, panthers, lions) and vehicles, outmaneuvering mystic beasts (gorillas and panther gods with amazing speed along with other abilities), dodging bullets and lasers from point blank, writers and editors that have written and covered both characters, and just a general sense I get from reading the comics. Same with agility. I’m not saying Cap is slow because he’s big, I’m not saying he’s slow at all, I just think Black Panther is faster and I see no proof that says otherwise. Why do you limit Black Panther‘s intelligence to only book smarts and jeopardy questions? Your argument may have only looked at them without anything, but that’s not what the thread was about. Standard gear has Cap with a shield and BP with his costume.

And again with this stuff. Just because he’s called “the best” or “the ultimate” doesn’t mean he is or that he’s unbeatable. He’s been beaten before, why is it impossible to believe that Black Panther can do it?

now i never did get around to posting or finshing the cap vs bp thing,

but some people seem to think that, if you are turn evil, and retain your mind that, you are you??

that does not make since if you are evil you do things that you may not normaly do??

in the if vs bp fight, that fight made no since, how does one that has total control of their body lose??? to a sonic bug? why would he not make hiself deaf??( i call that so called creative thinking a give me by the writters)

who cares if he did not use his dagger, if he did not use it, he did not use it, this "out the box think or what if thinking"

Indeed bp may be able to block iron fist puces but if never really put a death shot on bp, it did not seem like he was trying to kill him to me.

Bp is a enhance "cheater" please take no offense to this, but he is enhance by a herb??? For If to keep up with him or even do what he does really shows who is better. I feel if is tens times better for he does not need the juice or herb.

It like homeruns kings in baseball today, its not really fair to compare homeruns records of people who were not jacke on"juice" steriods or herbs, to those who pop them like tic tacs and stuff

how much better do you have to be to do though on skill, than with the help of a herb or plant. BUt that the way it is with bp and he is wrote.

he fights with his fist feet head and body and mind, (sometimes weapons if needed, not much though.) no armor or fancy things cause he cant do it.

if this a true fight bp would get it, by if.

please discard my "out the box thinking" If is a true ma master, where bp may be a ma artist at most( sad every one in a dam comic is a "ma" artist or "ma" master, as if){do they just hand them out at hero/villian school}

I can easly see if use his chi to mess with bp chi, but that never happens to a strong point

i can see if easliy out lasting bp, he has total body control and mind.

I mean one iron fist with chi to disrupt bp heart rhtyum or beat?? It not that he hit him, it that he hit him(hope you understand that)

(yeah his armor stops it only to have the chi still flow, and mess him up)

The true art is dim mik(vital grips/points of the body)

as one can see i favor if due his chi usgae, please feel free to reasrech chi, and ALL its usages.Also as Ma master that he was to protray...He was made base of the ma of the 60-70s, kung fu movies, in all respect he should be able to do those things, and this is the line of thinking that the writters and people had in mind, and created him for....

Should he not be able to do a kill bill style finger 5 death 5 steps hit( kill bill was made to honor the 60-70 kung fu movies)

Should he not be able to do a fearless jet li shadow punch or "moon covers sun punch"

First of all let me say that I can barely make out what you're saying.

Now, as to IF's turning evil. He was still himself, it's just that his goals were different. He still had his normal ability to think and fight using his full range of skills and powers (even more so actually because he was enhanced so he could fight BP), but he took BP as an enemy instead of a friend. Turning him evil didn't lower his capabilities.

I don't know what you're saying about the sonics, so let me go at it from what I think you're saying. It worked because the sound overloaded IF. It doesn't matter if he's in control of his body, if the sound is disrupting his mind until he passes out, then it works.

What do you mean, "who cares if he uses his dagger?" The dagger has the ability to kill on contact. Black Panther wasn't trying to kill IF in the fight, but in this fight, if he's willing to fight to the death, he'd use it. Same with his claws or his boots. He could have used them to kill before, but he wasn't trying to. In this situation, he'll use them.

It didn't seem like he was trying to kill? Did you read the issue? It looked like he was trying to kill to me. He was going all out with multiple Iron Fists, driving cars at BP and blowing up his submarine underwater. Besides that, the very reason he was fighting was on orders to kill. Why do you think he wasn't trying to kill?

Why are you calling BP a cheater for having the heart shaped herb? Do you call Captain America a cheater for having the super soldier serum? Do you call Superman a cheater for being under a yellow sun? The HSH is part of BP's character just as much as the SSS or the sun. It's not like he takes a hit of HSH before a fight, he got it when he was 19 and it's part of who he is. Same with the armor. Why do you want to take away a part of his character? It makes no sense for so great and brilliant a creator to never use even the most modest and reasonable technology. He's got the technology, why shouldn't he use it? Not only is it just against common sense for him to not use what he has, but the costume isn't just worn for its battle applications, it's a part of being chieftain of his people. As spiritual leader and connection to the Panther god, it's part of his character and it's his everyday wear. When you picture a fight with Superman, is he wearing his blue and red? Would Batman be wearing his batsuit? Would Spider-Man have his costume? Black Panther's costume is part of his character, if you have to take it away for the opposition to have a chance, what's the point?

You may not like that "every one in a dam comic is a 'ma' artist or 'ma' master", but Black Panther is. Deal with it.

The rest of what you're saying is static to me. All I'm getting is, "chi, chi, MA, kung fu, moon covers sun punch".

Valkaad says:

"Don't you know that Black Panther can beat anyone!! He is the ultimate everything in the Marvel Universe, just ask Sling Shot"

Waa Waa Waa.

Ayo, Valkaad if BP winning against Cap ain't such a world issue, how come you bring it up on the IF thread?

Thats okay homie sour grapes and all that.

No hard feelings, right? Pals till the end.
Post Edited:2007-05-22 23:05:30

It was me that really brought it up, not him.

You are right in a way cap is a ":cheater" too.

But in the cap vs bp trend, they both had it, cap had a serum"a boost" and panther hsh"ehancher" so in a way they where even.

But in if(iron fist) vs bp(black panther) only one has. Yes it is how the charcthers are written, but there is great due, credit to someone who does with out an boost/ehancher, ehancement and their on will.

I understand your point, buckshot about his culture , im not taken away form that nor doubting it, but the guy uses stuff to get it done, and an ehanhcer, if that his culture, i respect that. I feel that he is great without the herb, but if you need the hitm you need the hit.

As for superman, his suit gets mess up all the time(how much kyrtioan cloth does he has??) not the same with a virbruim suit?

As for batman his suit get it to..

Im not taken away or trying to take away from him, im just trying to show, that what happens when a charcther gets base of weapons and stuff, he is a great fighter with or without, but it takes away form him to always show him with those items, using or needing.

Now compare it to a guy who does not use those things, only his god(no inslut to anyones reglion) given feet and fist to do the goals or get the job done.

Again bp did not use his dagger to kill,harm or what ever. To me this is just a point in time, if the writters choose not to use or show that fine, and if they did not show it, we can only assume or say.

yes i have the comic, i love ma, and collect lots of comics with cool ma and movies.

In the if vs bp(balck panther) in the book, lots of things did not make sense to me, as they did not make sense to you, Just as you say the dagger, where not use to harm/kill.

I was like, wait you getting hit by cars, dozen of iron fist, not breaken your bones, stunning you, disruting blood flow, etc...(we both had many question that we can only ask, and guess to at best)

With the whole freq things, it seems we see it in diffent ways, which i feel is nothing wrong it just show how people think diffently... but a deaf person can not hear, because their eardrum do not virbate /fuction, someone who has full body control can do that... its sound

At the most someone who is suppose to have the level of skill if has, and full body control, mind control, should have been able to easliy put that aside; maybe a normal if(iron fist) could have, but an evil if(iron fist) could not???? who knows?

deal with it???? it was a joke to be funny but we both seem to miss each other humor, just like i did with the whole bp saying and cap head blows up, you wrote... your statement then was funny though.

The reason i put the chi stuff in, is support. In kung fu, and many other style, chi is vital and important. At high levels people are able to prrform amazing stunts and feats. In movies and shows, etc, people are shown using chi to do amazing things, i will liek to trust we all have watch teh ol' school kungfu videos of the 70's, and seen the new wuxia movies of today times, crouching tiger,hero,fearless, kill bill,matrix, etc.

The stuff around his fist, is chi, he is a master of it, its part of his culture his charcther. Its kind of hard to, make a choice about someone if you dont know all or most about them?

Do you not feel, that these things play a part of who iron fist is?

I’m still having trouble understanding you.

Cap is not a cheater. That’s his power set. Part of his character is having the supersoldier serum. You’re trying to separate parts of the character that you deem unfair. Spider-Man wasn’t born with spider powers but he got them, and they’re part of his character. Saying it’s cheating for him to have powers that are part of who he is doesn’t make sense. Would you have a fight with Spider-Man and Wolverine in which Spider-Man didn't have his powers? Black Panther was not born with all of his powers, but they are part of who he is. If you can’t wrap your head around this, then I don’t know what to say to you.

I’m not talking about suits being damaged, I’m talking about standard gear. The costume is the image and it’s just as important, and just as much of the character as their powers or personality. Just because the costume does something doesn’t mean it should be seen as unfair. I’m pretty sure you do not understand the point I’m making though.

What are you trying to say about the dagger? He didn’t use it because he wasn’t trying to kill. That is not an assumption or speculation. He can use it to kill. That is not assumption or speculation. I’m not assuming that he can use it to kill, it’s in the books. I’m not assuming he could have killed Iron Fist, it’s clear. He hit Iron Fist multiple times with his hand, but he did it in a way so his claws didn’t touch him. All he would have had to do was turn his hand to cut his throat or chest or the other places he hit him. He could have also just had the dagger in his hand and set it to kill. But he wasn’t trying to kill IF. He had his foot on Iron Fist’s head at least once. He easily (with a thought) could have set the vibranium padding in his boots to explode Iron Fist’s head (it’s shattered wood and destroyed metal before, it could do the same to IF’s head). The reason he didn’t was because he wasn’t trying to kill.

You really have the comic? I don’t think you do, but that’s irrelevant.

Did I say it didn’t make sense? It makes perfect sense to me why he didn’t use his weapons to harm (as much as he could have) or kill him. He did it because Iron Fist was not his enemy and he knew that. He wasn’t trying to kill him, he wanted to make sure he stayed alive. (Iron Fist on the other hand was going all out.)

He was overloaded with sound. The input of the stimulus was too much for Iron Fist and he passed out. I really don’t know what you’re talking about with “full body control”. You’re brain controls your body, so if your brain can’t do its job (because it’s getting hammered with so much sound that it can’t function, for example), you can’t control your body.

I understand chi and I know its importance to Danny Rand, but I didn’t know what you were saying. I still don’t know what you’re saying, or why you’re bringing up things that aren’t comics.

EDIT: Had to add the rest of what I wrote. Weirdness on my laptop made it get cut off.
Post Edited:2007-05-23 11:28:45

Its Sync, nothing he says makes much sense.

I think I might stop responding to him. It's just too much of a hassle to decipher his scribblings.

Try playing around him in an rpg.

No thanks, I've seen that mess.

im trying to point out some of the same points that you are saying; that you have made excellent suggestive ways that bp COULD have done or what he MAY have done.

I understand the charcthers perfectly, captain and black panther both have enhancers. But if a normal human can match them, i respect that feat more, and see them with the greater ability.

Im also saying the same for if(iron fist), in that i did not understand why a so called evil version of him did not use the (iron fist chi) in the some of the ways i have describe.

Just like you descibe how and when he should have or could have taken iron fist, Thats all.

Im not doubting that he was not trying to kill him. But"imo" it didnt not make sense from my view points, it really didnt look or seem like it, but i accepted what the book said, no matter how i felt or how the writters wrote it.

it would or may be pointless for us to go on about the iron fist full body control. I just feel that someone who has full control of their body, who can slow their heart rate, immune themself to pain, not feel heat or cold, hold their breath a long time,seeming as they do not need to breathe; would easly resist such a tactic, but i agian accept what the comic says, despite what all iron fist can do with his body/mind control.

I own a lot of iron fist, comics, karate kids, etc. But i hope its safe to say or asssume that with iron fist, he does or has done some of the things i have said in the earlier post.

Again the only reason, i added or said the chi usage was because, i feel that its important to understand what chi is, and what its capable of in rl and the ways it is shown in most comics. Iron fist has use his chi powers to calm down angry mobs, punch though vaults, walls, heal from death wounds, many things shown in movies.

If people want to disregard those , i will say ok, thats their choice, but they should be aware of them.

I truley hope that i have type this in a clear manner and format, buckshot. I respect you and thank you for taking the time to point out my bad grammar; much less ,you take time to respect what i TRY to type and say, and respond with kindness and respect even though its very hard to understand or make it out, unlike some who have shown cruelness and disrespect.

Thank you buckshot

Sync says:

"it would or may be pointless for us to go on about the iron fist full body control. I just feel that someone who has full control of their body, who can slow their heart rate, immune themself to pain, not feel heat or cold, hold their breath a long time,seeming as they do not need to breathe; would easly resist such a tactic, but i agian accept what the comic says, despite what all iron fist can do with his body/mind control."

Now that I understand it, this is a good (I think, your best) point. I think that if Iron Fist knew the blast of sound was coming, he could have braced himself for it. However, in that scenario, BP got the ear piece on him so stealthily, that he didn't know it was there and could in no way, prepare for it.

I now see what you're saying about alternate uses of his chi other than for the iron fist, but seeing as nothing like that has ever attacked BP (to my knowledge), I don't know how that would affect him. I don't think he'd go down like a normal person though. One of the things he get with the heart shaped herb was a deep connection with the panter god and some spiritual stuff. He knows how to control his energy and fend off spiritual attacks. Other than that, I can't say how exactly the alternate chi attacks would phase him. I do know how his concentrated chi would work though so I'm basing my assumptions off that. When he forms it into his iron fist, that's its strongest form, and that wasn't all that great. It tore up his costume and multiple iron fists attacks was able to wear BP out, but IF doesn't usually have that many and using them takes a toll on him. Normal IF wouldn't take BP because his strongest attack (when it can hit) doesn't stop BP.

Sling Shot says:

"Valkaad says:

"Don't you know that Black Panther can beat anyone!! He is the ultimate everything in the Marvel Universe, just ask Sling Shot"

Waa Waa Waa. Ayo, Valkaad if BP winning against Cap ain't such a world issue, how come you bring it up on the IF thread? Thats okay homie sour grapes and all that. No hard feelings, right? Pals till the end.
Post Edited:2007-05-22 23:05:30"

To set the record straight I brought up captain america in the IF thread only after Buckshot said "or the Cap one since you're obviously still mad about that".

I was responding to Buckshot. Pal.

Plus now that I think about it, I didn't realize that the Iron Fist thread involved world issues.

in the past i would have said BP but with what iron fist is learning now im giving it to fist. he's becoming the character i always thought he could be. in the marvel universe iron fist and shang chi should be the ultimate in unarmed combat, as supes was designed to be the best superhero so should they be in unarmed combat.

ironfist 1982 gets his ass handed to him but not fist of the class of 2007.

Black Panther

Hate to say it, but BP probably would win, UNLESS! Iron Fist got in one of those mega-judo-deathmaker-of-doom punches right to BP's face.

if black panther has possesion of ebony blade then iron fist is a goner

How about now?

Iron fist

I think iron fist would win. He's a better fighter being ranked a 5 in martial arts which is the highest. Surpassing Shang chi and even karate kid from dc.. Also when he channels his chi his senses and skill enhance making him just that much better than bp.. Iron fist wins

Iron Fist.

Danny