Black Panther (MCU) vs Batman (DCEU)

@lgh0stl: First off, they don't have to be trained the same as S.H.I.E.L.D. agents to be well trained. He got tagged by fodder because he was focused too much on single opponents, but he can't get distracted if he's only facing one person. Also, Captain America got tagged plenty of times by those S.H.I.E.L.D. agents in the elevator scene and he fights evenly with Bucky and Panther, so what's your point? You just seem to be a Panther fanboy, as you completely deny valid points that I've made.

@bluestreakflash: you don't have any valid points because you already create a scenario that even then it is still debatable if he can win. Now we are resorting to call someone a Fanboy? No, I'm an Iron Man Fanboy if you were going to call me with that. Now back to the argument.

First off, they don't have to be trained the same as S.H.I.E.L.D. agents to be well trained. He got tagged by fodder because he was focused too much on single opponents, but he can't get distracted if he's only facing one person.

I didn't say that they have to be trained same as the shield agents, it's just they are mercenaries who are not formally introduce with regards to their training so they are fodders like with the shield agents. "Please don't bring up that shield agents are different from the mercenaries fodder you will only make Batman looks bad."

Also, Captain America got tagged plenty of times by those S.H.I.E.L.D. agents in the elevator scene

Kindly watch it again, he fought 10 shield agents, 3 of them are big guys and 1 of them got feats and that is Rumlow, remember he didn't fights him in a large room like the warehouse scene in BvS, in an ELEVATOR now, if you were wondering what kind of feats does large hulking shield agents can do watch the Thor 1 it gives depowered Thor some trouble. Okay, so they got the taser and the magnetic cuffs and guess what after getting out of the choke position the only person that really tags him is BROCK RUMLOW, isn't that amazing?

he fights evenly with Bucky and Panther

Yes, or maybe I don't know cause he can lift Bucky with one hand while sustaining a stab in his far right chest near the underarms, receives alot of punches in the face. Well again let's talk about Panther, how does Batman would even hurt Panther aside from your arguments that he will be tagged by a telephone pole wire? I hope Batman's last straw of winning is not solely base on a telephone pole wire. Remember T'challa outside a suit jump towards the explosion that kills his father and not only that the explosion throws him a considerable distance and still he is not knocked out.

@usha: Remind me... were those guys all armed with Assault rifles, pistols, and knives?

@lgh0stl: It doesn't make Batman look bad. I didn't say that their training wasn't as good, I said that it was different. Pay attention. Also, provide some feats that Rumlow had before his fight with Cap in the elevator, because if he doesn't have any feats preceding that fight, then it doesn't matter if he has feats. Batman fought 24 trained men, and that's not the same as 10 S.H.I.E.L.D. agents. Also, Cap would've stayed pinned to the wall, were it not for his superhuman strength, so that's one of the main reasons that he won that fight. Even if he knocked out all of the guys in there while pinned to the wall, there was a strike squad coming for him that would've taken him out. And Rumlow may have been the only one to land a strike, but he got tagged by all of the guys that pushed him up against the wall, so like Batman, he's not immune to getting tagged by people that aren't as skilled as the Winter Soldier or Black Panther. The telephone pole wire is not what I'm basing my argument off of. I'm saying that it's a very easily exploitable weakness and anyone with half the intelligence of Batman would realize that Panther's suit is entirely metal and could attempt to exploit the fact that it's a conductor and use electricity against him. I'm saying that it's something that Batman would very likely use against him, but that's not the only way that Batman could win. You know Panther's suit may be made of Vibranium, and he may be immune to taking damage from strikes and potentially cannot have his pressure points used against him (which I'm not entirely sure about by the way, but let's not linger on that), but he's not immune to joint locks, which Batman is a master of and he has been shown to use joint locks in BVS. One wrong move, one misstep on Panther's part and Bats could easily break his arm. Ouch. That oughta seriously lower Panther's chances. And even if Panther doesn't make a wrong move, Batman could still intercept a strike from T'Challa and lock his arm and if that happens, it's pretty much a guaranteed game over for Panther's arm. If his arm gets locked, he won't be able to move his arm at all. He may be able to move his shoulder and that could move his arm, but trying to move his forearm without using his shoulder would be impossible with the right joint lock. Strength doesn't matter. Once you are put in a joint lock, the part of your body that is in that lock is rendered completely immovable. I don't care if you have super strength. You could be a normal person that had Spider-Man's or Hulk's or Superman's strength, but joint locks remove strength from the equation and the only way that you could get out of a joint lock with that kind of strength would be to use the rest of your body to throw the person holding you in a lock, but you'd have to be really fast and if someone like Batman is joint locking you, then let's face it, even with Spider-Man, Hulk or Superman strength wouldn't be able to move fast enough to throw him before he broke the bones of whatever part of the body he's joint locking. So basically what I'm trying to get across is that joint locks completely eliminate the strength of the area being locked from the equation. That's a 100% real life fact. Of course, this doesn't render your entire body immovable, but even with Panther's speed I guarantee that he wouldn't be able to move the rest of his body fast enough to get out of the lock before Bruce breaks his arm because it's already been established by@captain_batman_ftw that Batman's combat speed is faster than Black Panther's. You can also lock areas of the body other than the arms obviously. Panther's suit won't keep his neck from being snapped if Batman gets an opening to do so. And there are plenty of ways to break the neck and you don't have to be behind the person to break their neck. Here's one way to do so that I will try my best to describe it in a way that will paint a picture for you. This technique involves intercepting a straight punch, palm strike or other striking techniques. Basically, you intercept the strike, redirecting the strike with an outside block and then you grab the wrist. From there, you exploit the momentum from the strike and use it against your opponent by pulling them forward. You then get your under under your adversary's chin and grab it and pull back, causing the person on the receiving end to lean back. If you don't break the neck by immediately pulling back on the chin with enough force, then you can hold your opponent in that position until you decide to end them with the snapping of the neck. This would be one of the easier ways to prime yourself to employ the application of a neck break. Such a system of techniques as joint locks is a very difficult system to counter and has been proved to be incredibly useful throughout history. Applying joint locks in hand to hand combat is one of the most effective types of techniques that a combatant can use in virtually every hand to hand combat scenario and the utilization of these techniques in any hand to hand battle by Batman is certain. And Panther got put in a chokehold by Hawkeye, who would get destroyed by Batman in a fight, so there's that.

Remind me....who was wearing bulletproof armour and disabled most of the guns?

@bluestreakflash:

Also, provide some feats that Rumlow had before his fight with Cap in the elevator, because if he doesn't have any feats preceding that fight, then it doesn't matter if he has feats.

Hahahaha!! are you telling me that after his fight with Cap in the elevator he is different? the fact that he manage to tagged Cap while his other hand is sticked to the wall is amazing, while BATMAN GOT TAGGED EVEN THOUGH HIS MOVEMENT IS NOT RESTRICTED BY THE LOCATIONAND A GADGET.

Batman fought 24 trained men, and that's not the same as 10 S.H.I.E.L.D. agents.

Yes, It's not the same because those 24 mercenaries are dumb enough to not use their side arms at once and follow the cliche 3 or 4 attacks at a time in the most alternate way. So no the S.H.I.E.L.D. agents do the best tactics and still they got stomped.

Also, Cap would've stayed pinned to the wall, were it not for his superhuman strength, so that's one of the main reasons that he won that fight. Even if he knocked out all of the guys in there while pinned to the wall, there was a strike squad coming for him that would've taken him out. And Rumlow may have been the only one to land a strike, but he got tagged by all of the guys that pushed him up against the wall, so like Batman, he's not immune to getting tagged by people that aren't as skilled as the Winter Soldier or Black Panther

Well I guess you can say now that he would clearly stomp Batman, Yes, the Strike Squad that is smart enough to take their position using their guns unlike those mercenaries who cram in one place so they got their guns disabled. Yes, he got pinned but he didn't receive and strike, kicked or punched aside from getting taser by Rumlow a taser that knocked out the other big guy and he receive it 3 times not just once.

The telephone pole wire is not what I'm basing my argument off of. I'm saying that it's a very easily exploitable weakness and anyone with half the intelligence of Batman would realize that Panther's suit is entirely metal and could attempt to exploit the fact that it's a conductor and use electricity against him. I'm saying that it's something that Batman would very likely use against him, but that's not the only way that Batman could win. You know Panther's suit may be made of Vibranium, and he may be immune to taking damage from strikes and potentially cannot have his pressure points used against him (which I'm not entirely sure about by the way, but let's not linger on that), but he's not immune to joint locks, which Batman is a master of and he has been shown to use joint locks in BVS. One wrong move, one misstep on Panther's part and Bats could easily break his arm. Ouch. That oughta seriously lower Panther's chances. And even if Panther doesn't make a wrong move, Batman could still intercept a strike from T'Challa and lock his arm and if that happens, it's pretty much a guaranteed game over for Panther's arm. If his arm gets locked, he won't be able to move his arm at all. He may be able to move his shoulder and that could move his arm, but trying to move his forearm without using his shoulder would be impossible with the right joint lock. Strength doesn't matter. Once you are put in a joint lock, the part of your body that is in that lock is rendered completely immovable. I don't care if you have super strength. You could be a normal person that had Spider-Man's or Hulk's or Superman's strength, but joint locks remove strength from the equation and the only way that you could get out of a joint lock with that kind of strength would be to use the rest of your body to throw the person holding you in a lock, but you'd have to be really fast and if someone like Batman is joint locking you, then let's face it, even with Spider-Man, Hulk or Superman strength wouldn't be able to move fast enough to throw him before he broke the bones of whatever part of the body he's joint locking. So basically what I'm trying to get across is that joint locks completely eliminate the strength of the area being locked from the equation. That's a 100% real life fact. Of course, this doesn't render your entire body immovable, but even with Panther's speed I guarantee that he wouldn't be able to move the rest of his body fast enough to get out of the lock before Bruce breaks his arm because it's already been established by@captain_batman_ftw that Batman's combat speed is faster than Black Panther's.

First I don't care what other user established about Batman's combat speed because it's clearly not a fact, base on what ? mowing fodders which Bucky did and look what Bucky had when he fights Panther he got alot of kicks in the face. Hahahaha!! yes, pressure points that he didn't even use (let's not linger with that). Panther tanked an explosion and only sustain some wounds that is without the suit, that same day he suit up and fight Bucky in the rooftop and proceed to chase him in the highway and they outrun speeding cars. Regarding the joint lock are you telling me that once Batman touch Panther he will not resist? or maybe the other way around, Batman do that to a fodder but Panther perform a smooth takedown to a super soldier, so i'll take his showing any day of the week. Hey, I've watched the clip again and you know what? Panther outside the suit lock Bucky's arm, the metal arm well he can't break it because you know why and clearly he can't overpower that so your points it's already moot, Batman throws a punch gg he'll get his arm broken or worse get a slash in throat. Another thing, if ever Batman puts Panther in a joint lock heres what likely to happen first Panther can turn around the situation due to his agility and skill, wait are you telling me that Batman can joint lock Superman and that's game over? I now wonder why Batman didn't do that in the movie against Superman, maybe he is saving it for Doomsday I guess. You can't break the bone of someone if you can't pass their durability even are you telling me that, if Batman put Iron Man in a joint lock he can break his arm or any parts of his body ? considering the fact that a tank shell didn't even hurt him and an mjolnir to the chest didn't hurt him (but technically it damage the armor greatly).

Panther's suit won't keep his neck from being snapped if Batman gets an opening to do so. And there are plenty of ways to break the neck and you don't have to be behind the person to break their neck. Here's one way to do so that I will try my best to describe it in a way that will paint a picture for you. This technique involves intercepting a straight punch, palm strike or other striking techniques. Basically, you intercept the strike, redirecting the strike with an outside block and then you grab the wrist. From there, you exploit the momentum from the strike and use it against your opponent by pulling them forward. You then get your under under your adversary's chin and grab it and pull back, causing the person on the receiving end to lean back. If you don't break the neck by immediately pulling back on the chin with enough force, then you can hold your opponent in that position until you decide to end them with the snapping of the neck. This would be one of the easier ways to prime yourself to employ the application of a neck break. Such a system of techniques as joint locks is a very difficult system to counter and has been proved to be incredibly useful throughout history. Applying joint locks in hand to hand combat is one of the most effective types of techniques that a combatant can use in virtually every hand to hand combat scenario and the utilization of these techniques in any hand to hand battle by Batman is certain. And Panther got put in a chokehold by Hawkeye, who would get destroyed by Batman in a fight, so there's that.

First, let me tell you this he just don't receive a punch from a metal arm, he receive it from a guy who punch chunks of concretes and break iron man armor with it's grip and he took a punch in the face not once. So tell me how can Bruce will break his neck if a guy who can easily punch a chunk of concrete out of the wall, Goodluck with that and that is considering that fact that Panther won't react. Again Batman didn't rely on that technique in that fight so i guess that is moot (creating scenarios again are we ? where Panther would be some kind of a dumb fighter), We don't even know how it come to that, but the moment he saw his target escaping he stomp Panther in a mere seconds and you know it's not true that Hawkeye will get decimated given that distance and arsenal of Hawkeye. If Hawkeye gets the thunderstick, or even an explosive arrow and the machine gun arrow, I don't know how well Batman will tanked an explosion that bust a bunker that is considering that there is a distance between them when they fight but Hand to Hand. So still Panther wins, let me know if I miss something in your argument.

@lgh0stl said:

Well I pretty much covered everything and pretty much said everything that I can say. I hope that you read everything and take at least some of it into consideration because it took me a super duper long time to type it all. Like for real. And listen mate, I'm not trying to be hostile or mean and I hope that this debate hasn't made you want to be mean to me either. Comics and superheroes are fun, first and foremost and if we start being immature twits toward each other because we disagree on something, then that really just takes the fun right of it and it's not cool and most importantly is just straight up wrong, so I hope that you aren't like super mad at me or want to be mean to me or anything like that and I hope that we can be blokes.

MCU Winter Soldier and Captain America would destroy DCEU Batman, and BP was consistently beating WS and giving Cap a good fight

Add in the physical gap

Add in the durability gap

Batman get wrecked

@bluestreakflash:

Batman still fought 14 more people than Cap did. And they were coming from all directions, and he focused too much on single opponents a few times because of his aggression, anger and rage, but he wouldn't be presented with an opportunity to get distracted like that here because in this battle he's only fighting one person and he will focus completely on his one and only opponent.

Please watch it again, they didn't attack at once at best 4 or 3 attacked him, wait so if his aggression, anger and rage get the better of him, that's not pretty tactical he is much of a brute with that kind of attitude and yet you claim that his warehouse fight show his tactical skills. I doubt that even Panther with his bloodlust towards Bucky doesn't gets the better of him when it comes to fighting.

First off, some of the mercenaries did use their sidearms. We don't know if all of them had sidearms and even if they did, they're not dumb for not using them. They didn't fight in "the most alternate way." They attacked Batman the way that they did because they were constantly being hit by him. And what do you mean cliche? Plenty of real life fights involve 3 or 4 attackers attacking a single individual. And if you were fighting as many people as Batman was (assuming that you wouldn't get murdered by them), you would be bound to end up fighting 3 or 4 guys at a time.

Okay, I'll pretend that all Lex Luthor can afford are low budget mercenaries. Actually they are, why use a knife you have a handgun. Actually about the "alternate attack", I was talking about when Batman is lying the ground and blocking their attack, he is already in the ground why attack at once they were both okay before that and neither of them receive a hit during each of their first assault they manage to repeat again but instead they attack one after the other instead of dogpiling and stabby stabbed him. Really in a fight that happens? then I guess what Cap had in a fight is not a fight then because you got 6 people pinning him down, 3 on the right hand, 1 choking him and 2 other on the left hand and still he manage to knocked out the other 2 while pinned down.

"Well I guess you can say now that he (Captain America) would clearly stomp Batman,"

This makes no sense.

That should clear things up.

Listen bloke, those mercenaries were not all crammed together. The people in the strike squad that came to the elevator were closer together than the mercenaries, so I guess that they're dumb, right? I guess that that just makes them really really stupid.

or Maybe because they already maximized the space of the hallway and they got their own position so they won't shoot each other given the space they had, while the mercenaries got tons of space to get in place but instead they make it easier for Batman to disable their guns.

You should care what another user established when it's true. It actually is a fact that is based upon the fact that one of Batman's punches was nearly imperceivable to the human eye and the rest of his strikes were faster than any of the strikes that Panther dished out. This is something that you can actually observe and if you pay very close attention, then you should come to the correct conclusion that Batman hits faster than Panther.

Is it ? did you have the calc or you just assumed ? it is a fact if their is a hard evidence that it is, but if you were going to tell me that you and a group of people let say one hundred people agree with you it's not a fact it's an opinion, A million people can say that 1 + 2 is equal to 5 but it will not change the fact that the answer is 3 or claim it factual that a boy who looks and dress like a girl therefore he is a girl. so tell me again how did you know that he hit faster than Panther?

Oh I forgot that that makes his bones indestructible. My bad. Really mate? He's not invincible. Surviving a huge explosion while close to it while impressive does not mean that you are immune to joint locks or that your bones can't get broken.

Still same goes for Batman, if you remember Panther do that to Bucky but since it is the metal arm it didn't affect him and instead overpower him. Again that is granted he will caught Panther in that position you barely even talk about how will Batman engage Panther you always put Batman already in a position that he got the advantage, give something in how he can gain that advantage.

He can try to resist, but if Batman puts him in a joint lock, then it will literally be impossible for him to move the area of the body that is in the lock without moving another part of his body to get his arm to move. And when Batman uses joint locks he doesn't just hold them in that lock and wait like people do when they try to get their opponent to submit. When Batman uses joint locks on people he immediately brakes the bone(s) of whatever part of the body he is locking.

Except he can, he is flexible as hell and strong too that he manage to flip bucky when they were fighting near the stairs. That is another thing if Batman can put him into joint lock because first he needs to engage Panther in a CQC, how can he prevent those roundhouse kick, 3 consecutive flying kicks which he pretty much always do at the opening of the fight and mind you he rarely throws a punch so there goes your joint lock out of the window, unless you'll say he'll get it in the legs before Batman can do anything to his legs he'll get a pretty hard kick in the face.

moot point already, if he punch it's either Batman will take it in the face or he just block it, if you didn't watch carefully IIRC he only throws 2 or 3 punch in the entirety of the movie and that is when he is outside the suit whenever he is in the suit he is either kicking the hell out of them or slashing them.

Because he's faster than Winter Soldier and Panther and he knows techniques that would allow him to get him and Panther in positions where he could break Panther's neck without Panther being able to do anything about it, such as the joint lock technique that I described before, so he wouldn't just have to run up to Panther and try to grab his head to break his neck.

I need feats on those underlined, first faster than Winter Soldier and Panther, second the techniques that he use in a very skilled individual and also agile. Until now you were equating Panther to those goons that he fight in the warehouse such a disappointment.

I'm not saying that he won't react, but he's not guaranteed to react fast enough to prevent something like that from happening.

Panther reacts to arrow after it was fired, I guessed Batman is now faster than an arrow when he fights.

It doesn't matter if he relied on that technique in that fight. It matters that it works and he knows the technique and that he is fast enough to potentially use it. And I'm this whole battle is a scenario. I'm just listing things that Batman is very likely to use and things that would work if he did.

You were listing those things and giving a conclusion that Panther will be caught in that technique which Batman only use to MERCENARIES who is not even PEAK HUMAN or ENHANCED or even know a thing about martial arts which we can see Panther is pretty well versed.

Batman would stomp Hawkeye. He may be a better ranged fighter, but Batman has ranged weapons too and is a better fighter and is fast enough to avoid his arrows.

If Hawkeye gets the thunderstick, or even an explosive arrow and the machine gun arrow, I don't know how well Batman will tanked an explosion that bust a bunker that is considering that there is a distance between them when they fight but Hand to Hand.

That's assuming that he hits Batman. Batman could avoid his arrows.

Feats for Batman avoiding a master marksman? the arrow don't needs to hit him even he dodges it, if it lands nears him he is dead and if didn't know what a thunderstick does might i tell you that it send a massive wave that will knocked out every person it hits. Hawkeye already done pretty well to enhanced individuals and he only missed at one enhanced and that is Panther.

Also, I've said this a few times before, but I think that either of them could win. I think that both of them would win 5/10 times, so I'm not saying that Batman would always win and that Panther would always lose. I think that it could go either way.

So far all you say are arguments that he is faster than Panther without an actual fact that he is, you all claim an argument that Panther will fall into this technique even though in the movie it shows that Panther is also well versed in martial arts. Regardless Panther still wins.

Ain't mad at all it kills my time at work since I always finish my task early. that is why in this post I don't have any gifs because I can't push my luck and go to youtube make some gifs. Just wish you use feats base on the movie not just opinions that he is fast because to you it looks imperceivable. The reason why I know Panther is fast is because it was shown in the movie that they were outrunning cars without even a head start and he was fast enough to support his weight and run across a wall while being choked by a guy riding in a motorcycle. So all said and done I'm going home.

BatAffleck has a pretty good chance but BP takes the majority in a random encounter

Panther is better in almost every way.

Okay then. I've enjoyed this. I'm sure that we'll pick back up on this again in a while. 'Til then, see ya mate.

@bluestreakflash:I'll break his warehouse fight down for you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKSottBl7ow

1:20 - he shoots a guy in the leg with a grapple gun and let him hang.

1:22 - then he drop near the 2nd guy, he break something to that buy not sure then he aim the gun at the mercenaries while the guy was pulling the trigger. 1:28 he let go of the guy.

1:31 - one of the man already up and start shooting from a feet away but still he didn't hit batman and gives batman time to shoot him with a grappling gun pull him then punch him.

1:41 - he threw a batarang to one of the mercenaries who gets up recently. but you can see before that happen there's a guy who shot the door knob and open it, then you'll see that he will set aside his gun and grab a grenade (Indeed very clever) which gives time for Batman to kick the hanging guy towards that clever guy resulting for him to drop the grenade and die with his stupidity.

1:51 - 1:57 by that timeline he knocked out 3 guys but not at the same time, the first guy blocked his attacked or rather Batman blocked the attack, then he punch the 2nd guy at the sides and gives the 3rd guy an uppercut then the first guy comes back with a knife, so he attempt to slash Batman, but he ducks , then he attempt to stab him in the mouth or head because he aim too high even if you say Batman duck his aim is still too high, then Batman hugs him and lift him up then smashed into the floor.

2:03 - the other guys seems to wake up from whatever reason they didn't appear earlier. one of the guys was shooting at him he only pop 7 rounds I don't know what kind of sidearms he got so I won't dig deep into that, okay he manage to slam the guy who was charging at him in the crater. so while that happen the other guys at the back just really pull out their knives and didn't do anything and wait for Batman to grab a crater with his grappling gun and toss it to them hitting one of their guys, then the other one shoots out the grappling gun out of his hand.

2:13 - then they go CQC the one with the gun goes first and for some odd reason he chose to hold the right arm of batman, the 2nd guy dodge the punch aimed to his stomach by backing away for a bit and the 3rd guy perform as slash at the cowl, the 2nd guy attemp to stab Batman in the head but he got blocked, the same time the 4th guy got punched in the face. he stop the 3rd guy from stabbing at his body and headbutt him, then he elbow the 1st guy and then block the 3rd and 4th guy slash with his gauntlet. he dodge the 2nd guy attempt to stab him in the mouth, take a hold of his hand and proceed to punch the 3rd guy in the face then break the arm of the 2nd guy. Okay so we only got the 1st guy, the 3rd guy and the 4th guy. he kicked the leg of the 4th guy, and grab the arm of the 3rd guy after the fail attempt of stab and use it to parry the 1st guy slash twice and then kicked the 1st guy then stab the 3rd guy in the leg with his own knife. the 2nd guy is back and try to throw a punch but he receive an uppercut, the 1st guy got blocked again and receive a punched in the face. the 3rd guy was so shocked with his stabbed in the leg that he was unable do something after that and that result for batman to give him a punch him down. then the 4th guy try tackle him but he failed and put the 4th guy down and punch him about 3 times.

2:36 - the new guy we will call the 5th guy manage to shoot him twice, and for some reason follows him while shooting, he did a turnaround and aim the gun away from him, he then pull the 5th guy over then drop him while holding his hand then break it. that is when another new guy that we will call the 6th guy kick him in the face. the 1st guy then grabbed his cape and slash at the side which Batman blocked instead of immobilizing his arm and stabbed his body then the 6th guy do the same at the right side if you will watch every time they slash they back up for a bit and that is kinda odd. the moment Batman get the space he needs to get up because he already give an elbow at the 1st guy he was kicked in the chest in which you can see in 2:50 he can break the calves but instead he was kick down which result for the 1st guy to stabbed him but the first guy think it's over he stop stabbing him which give Batman to kick the 6th guy's foot and hit the 1st guy with his knee.then he punched the 6th guy in the stomach and the in the calves, he proceed to take the 1st guy and his knife and stabbed him, the 6th guy took a punch in the face a knee in the stomach before getting throw in the wall.

3:16 - the fight ends

Basically he fought 16 mercenaries (without the 2 who was guarding martha) but he didn't take them all at once. Most of the mercenaries have dumb moments and I don't really know what some of them are doing when Batman is mowing them down one at a time.

T'Challa only used a joint lock one time in the movie. Batman used joint locks multiple times.

Except Batman only use it twice, first is when he fought 4 of them at once he broke the guys arm by grabbing his wrist and punching at the elbow. the 2nd time is when the guy shoot at the back of his cowl, after taking him down he broke his arm. Oh' and bucky can be affected with the arm lock granted that the other guy performing it is as string as Cap as seen in Civil War.

You literally just denied a provable fact. It doesn't matter if he's strong. You can't use your strength in an area that is in a joint lock. Go to any real, experienced martial artist that knows joint locks. They'll tell you the same.

After many research (meaning google) the joint locks, arm bars and body control most get success to opponents who is not focused enough, the technique to escape or prevent is to move with the force of the opponent, learn to accept it and redirect it when the attacker over commits. keeps yourself perfectly balanced and your weight underside, which makes off-balancing techniques for your opponent very difficult. stay very relaxed. Many joint lock techniques are exacerbated by tension in the defender rather than sheer skill of the attacker.

You say things to me like "that's only if Batman can get him in a lock" and things like that, but what about Panther? Yeah, he'd beat Batman. But that's if he can manage to land a hit and slash him. See? It goes both ways. I said if when I talked about Batman getting Panther in a joint lock

the reason I say that is because he performs those moves to mercenary who barely even have knowledge on martial arts, unlike Panther who can perform take down easily not only to a super soldier but to a skilled assassin with the stats comparable to Captain America.

Addressed above when I talked about slowing down the footage. And I wasn't equating Panther to the warehouse goons. Just because Batman is fighting a person or people that aren't as skilled as someone like Panther that doesn't make his combat speed any different.

that footage doesn't equate to faster combat speed he just one shot a few mercenary, watch Cap and Bucky highway fight that's what you call fast combat speed throwing blows one after the other, now back to his airport fight with Bucky not only he stop getting choked by Bucky he also manage to stop a punch from the metal arm then twist the other wrist so they will end up flipping while still holding the wrist of Bucky and leaving him unable to do anything so after all he did the arm lock twice and the second he get a better result performing a round house kick hitting Bucky's face.so tell me how much skill you need to put your opponent in a wrist lock even thought it is not the arm he use to throw a punch then force you and your opponent to rollover and perform a roundhouse kick after.

Batman avoided Doomsday's lasers, which are faster than arrows.

When ? if that is when he was in the side of a pillar or wall then he didn't he already shoot his grapple gun before doomsday fire the heat vision and the grapple gun do the job, he let him get pull unless you believe that he is faster than a laser then I guess, I will back out now if that's the case because he shouldn't be up with the CW flash and MCU Quicksilver in terms of Combat speed in which I doubt.

Stated above. He avoided Doomsday's lasers, which are faster than arrows and would have hit him had he not moved.

You know what is my answer here.

It's an observable fact.

It's not and that's a fact, if I'm a peak human blitzing average men and you are fighting equally to a man who take tons of steroid who were also blitzing average men, then who do you think will win if we fight ? It would be a shame if I still stomped you even though you were fighting equally to a man whose strength is beyond peak human and still able to blitz people.

You claim that Batman will get slashed by Panther. It's the same thing. Batman's well versed in martial arts too bud.

I claimed it because he fought 2 man without even slightest hint that they are well versed with martial arts and yet he still got stabbed and tagged. 2 average men manage to punch kick him in the chest, stab him near the shoulder and punch him in the back. Imagine what can an enhanced person who is well versed in martial arts got a claw that can put damage to an indestructible shield and able to go toe to toe and often go offensive against a super assassin that has comparable stats with the super soldier (captain america).

You didn't say anything about Rumlow not using his sidearm I see. Him using a taser stick instead of a gun is very comparable to the warehouse thugs using knives instead of guns.

Maybe you don't know the context of that fight, let me tell it to you. their mission is not to kill Cap, their goal is to incapacitate cap which is why they got the taser and the magnetic cuffs and the units that was deployed was not using live bullet rounds instead tranquilizers. So clearly not the same.

Panther wrecks

Panther. Better stats and armor.

Panther has DCEU Bruce outclassed in every way. Borderline stomp.

Black Panther slaughters. I haven't seen any batman movie where Batman demonstrates agility and speed feats even close to BP.

@serpinethegreen: He didn't fail to lift the car. The bumper fell off.

@thespartanb345t:

Thank you! If only someone could have told me earlier *rolls eyes*. Here's what actually happened (you may have forgotten):

• Cap sees car falling
• Cap stops car falling
• Woman screams whilst Cap fails to pull up car (he litterly doesn't pull it up an inch)
• The bumper breaks

He failed not only to pull up the car, but to pull it up at all (which he easily should have been capable of if he were close to as strong as some people are suggesting). Your argument is invalid.

BP wrecks.

Bruce is too fast

How is this thread 5 pages long? The MCU Falcon vs DCEU Batman is only one page almost entirely in falcons favor! But someone who could kick falcons a$$ six ways to Sunday gets five pages? Seriously, while I do think Batfleck is being underestimated on this site, especially when it comes to HTH combat, I think this fight is solidly in BP's favor.

1 why do people keep talking about captain america ? This is black panther

2 Obviously Batman takes this he has a metal suit of hurting superman this should not be a debate.

Batman. He has better gear and superior fighting style.

@darkgenex: good fight, but panther stomps hard

This is unfair. Batman can't even hurt panther.

@errorinscript: lol, with his Mech suit he is slow as hell, Phanter would dodge all his punches and destroy the suit with his claws. Really, much suit is only made to fight Superman, against anybody else is plain useless.

Panther has every edge with the possible exception of strength.

@thecrazybean: @jedixman:Batman beat up a ton of guys in the warehouse, he also beat up Superman.

He only hurt Superman due to kryptonite. Without that, he didn't do anything. The mech suit only offered enhanced durability - nothing more.

Beating up fodder is okay. He did that with stealth. That said, Panther showed generally better durability, speed, agility, and skill feats, and possibly better strength feats.

@jedixman: Fair enough if its a stealth fight I guess , Bats takes it or well in the dark.

@errorinscript: Batman doesn't have any showing fighting in the dark, and we still don't know how BP does in the dark. However we are out of topic, this fight doesn't take place in such conditions. Do you agree BP wins 10/10?

@thecrazybean: Maybe 5/5 if he's lucky.

Panther has an edge in probably every category, I think he wins easily

I know i am late beyond hell but i reread this chat and when i came across this comment i died laughing lmao!!!

Batman puts on his anti-Superman armor which can probably lift around 100 tons and puts Panther to sleep with one punch.

@thoromdil: It doesn't increase his strength.

@captain_batman_ftw:

In response to this quote:

However, I do not agree on Cap. Cap hasn't really displayed any fighting skills that would say that he's as good as fighter or anything like Batman. And here's the thing, it doesn't matter how many fodders someone's taken out, or how they go up against said quantity of fodders. It's about what they do and how they do it against the fodders. As of yet, Cap has done nothing to suggest that he's on par with Batman when it comes to fighting skills. Batman legitimately uses his fighting skills to block, hit and counter compared to Cap who just hits and one-shots a bunch of guys. The elevator fight scene is a prime example of that where he just hits a lot of people. Take a look for yourself, he just kicks and hits a bunch of guys and one-shots them.

Hm...yes...let's look at one scene from one movie. Brilliant way of presenting the skill differences between Batman and Cap. I also like how you bring this up [in a seperate comment]:

Obviously, a good strategy includes common sense and use of logic. He knew the guns would hurt him so he took out the gun-holders first. Easy as that.

• He had batarangs, he used it to disarm someone of their weapon
• He had a grapnel gun, he used it to drag a gun-holder towards him so he could knock out the guy and disarm him of his AR
• He saw a box and had a grapnel gun, so he used the grapnel gun to embed its hook into the box and sling the box to knock out someone who held an AR. This was actually smart as the guy he used it against was a good distance away from Batman so he could literally just spray Batman with the AR

There you go. This is actually very smart use of his equipment, and very creative and logical.

So that obviously proves you correct, right? Well...I think you've forgotten about any scene featuring Cap and his shield and how he uses it, especially in Age Of Ultron when he manages to use it to strike Ultron about 3 times in a row without touching it with his hand. Yes, he used his feet...but that's the point, he literally kicks it back at Ultron after it bounces off of him/it. That's not even mentioning the fact that Cap somehow makes the judgements that allow him to bouncing his shield literally back into his grip, which is only possible [in terms of the character] if he makes the predictions of where it will end up, which alone is extremely tactical and strategic, seeing as you'd need to predict where the shield is going to end up. If that isn't a good example of someone in the MCU using their equipment in a similar fashion to Batman, I don't know what is.

And then there's this:

How you can still say that Cap and Bucky are better fighters than Batman when an analyzation shows that they're actually bad and sloppy fighter, is beyond me. They're so flawed fighters, if that's what you'd call them, that it isn't even funny.

So, excluding the above, let's just go with what you've said...which is rich, to say the least. Sure, their fighting style may be seen a sloppy to you, but as a martial artist (and having attended an acting academy), I can say that their fighting isn't bad at all, and that sometimes people use martial arts in different ways depending on the person. Sometimes it'll be sloppy due to the actors lack of actual fighting skills. Sometimes it'll be sloppy due to the amount of times they've had to film the take [because getting the right take can take ages and can be exhausting for everyone]. Sometimes it's sloppy simply because the filmmakers aren't as knowledgeable as other people who do martial arts, which isn't bad. Sometimes, it's because the filmmakers want the actors to be at least partially facing the camera for the audience [in response to the whole 'hip' thing]. You'd be surprised how many people would say that the punches you are presenting are good punches [not necessarily accurate punches].

From a different perspective, Bucky was trying to catch Cap off guard [which failed] as he was trying to bring his fist back to perform a 'back-fist' [as it's known in Tae Kwon-Do], which Cap not only blocks with his shield, but also damages Bucky's main 'weapon' in the fight [namely, his metal arm]. Obviously that was an accident, because Cap isn't strategic at all, nor is he a good and tactical fighter...right? And when Cap had his guard "wide open", you do see Bucky using the shield to fling Cap's arm away from his body, thus exposing him to an attack, right? Cap wasn't simply letting himself stay unguarded; Bucky was using the shield to reduce the guard his opponent had.

You're also basing the point of "Batman is better than Cap and Bucky" on a hooking punch...on a singular, rather inconsequential punch...rather than literally any other feats you could have presented. Yes, that's analysing everything at your disposal.

You make good points, but your argument that Cap and Bucky aren't good fighters based on a punch is seemingly biased. I'm not saying you are, but it could easily be perceived as that.

And I agree that Batman would be able to put up a good fight against Black Panther [though still ultimately lose based on how Panther did against Cap and Bucky].

@king_nomarch: agreed.

Bruce gets sliced a new one. This isn't even a little debateable.

@herpidaderpa: Hey man, I posted this months ago without taking choreography into consideration when I made that argument. I conceded on this point

I'd give him strength as well unless we're talking about Mecha Batman.

Sorry about the comment on the old post.

Panther wins...better standard gear, better physicals, and has feats against higher caliber opponents than Batman has (I'm not counting Batman's feats in the armored suit).

@dragonbellz: Lmao

The warehouse scene is SEVERELY overrated.

Until we get better feats from DCEU bats he can't hang with any of the marvel super soldiers.

@xtreme1: To be honest that's a very fair assessment because even with the armored I'm still kind of tempted to go with Black Panther.

I realize Bruce's feats during the movie were very impressive he managed to survive a super punch and extremely easily outmatch Lex's henchmen in the warehouse. The bat head plate was clearly shown to be bullet proof as when it was shot at the bullet ricocheted. Bats does presumably have some level of stealth feats as he managed to steal kyptonite with Lex's vault with apparent ease.

However honestly speaking the biggest problem Bats has is that his best feats were shown against Henchmen whereas Black Panther was consistently showing them against Super Powered opposition. To start with he had the speed and agility to chase down Bucky who was riding a motor cycle and slash it's tires with ease and as a combatant he was shown to be very alert and very responsive as well against both Bucky and Captain America. The only time he was given any trouble during the movie was when Scarlet Witch intervened or when Scarlett Johansson fazed him with a barrage of stun gun shots.

Um, Batman's suit didn't do shit to Superman. It was the kryptonite.