Battle of the week Results!
For this weeks battle of the week we had Moon Knight against Bucky Barnes! There were a lot of solid arguements from both sides but in the end Bucky managed to win by 14%! Winter Soldier got 54% of the votes, with moon knight getting 38, and the rest being to close to call!
Now lets see how your fellow viners voted!
Arguments of the Week!
I'll argue for Marc in what I'm guessing will be somewhat of a devil's advocate position.
Bucky is good, and he has the advantage of the bionic arm's strength, and he'd certainly be carrying firearms, which is better gear than what Marc has. He has had some very good fights, but I would point out that the couple times I've seen him fight with Black Widow, they've been pretty even, and I'd argue that Black Widow and Marc are probably about even in H2H skill; maybe she's a bit better than Marc on average. Then just an issue or two ago, Black Widow's new arch-enemy, Recluse, who was trained by the Red Room, was able to capture Bucky, and then she fought both (a somewhat hurt) Bucky and Natasha together without too much difficulty. So Bucky is not on some completely different, undefeatable level from Marc.
Marc has armor covering his most vital parts, and is, I would argue, faster. While I don't think he's displayed this level of speed consistently, his best speed feat is certainly the celebrated cutting in half of a bullet with a crescent. But, he has consistently been shown as fast. In one classic issue, he is shown 10 feet away from a guy on the ground, and distracts the guy for literally a second; when the guy looks up, Marc is facing him from on top of a rooftop maybe 40' away, and it seems to the guy that he just appeared up there. Marc is also more agile and a darn good dodger, and I think most people would not argue that he is more durable/pain tolerant. His best fights include putting down Taskmaster and Deadpool.
Bucky is certainly an accurate shot. Marc is a near-perfect throw with his crescents, which are capable of cutting a gun barrel off, so he may be able to render Bucky's guns useless.
At 100' away, Marc will have a challenge. He's going to have to close in somewhat before using his darts, and Bucky can shoot at him the whole time. But, Marc is a pretty good dodger, like I said, and has the benefit of his armor. I think he can get close enough to disarm Bucky with the darts, and then get in to a physical fight, at which point it's anybody's ball game, with Bucky probably having a slight skill advantage, but having a hard time wearing Marc's durability down. I'd say Moon Knight can win the long bloody rumble by a hair.
MK should win. He's actually more dangerous from range, being one of the better bullet timers in Marvel, and extremely accurate with crescent darts.
Then in close quarters, he has a sizable skill advantage, to counter Bucky's strength advantage.
MK's advantages match up well against Bucky. Bucky may generally be the more dangerous of the two, but Marc wins this one.
Although Bucky's resume of feats is impressive, I still am unconvinced it is at the level that Moon Knight has faced and beaten decisively: Taskmaster, Deadpool, Daken, Killerstrike, Hobgoblin, Nick Fury, Black Knight, Swordsman etc.
And the bottom line is although Winter Soldier may be one of the best in the Marvel Universe at gunplay, I have yet to see an example of him gunning down anyone anywhere near Marc's skill level, on the other hand there are countless instances of Marc evading gunfire from world class snipers that have the drop on him, or at point blank range, evading multiple gunman etc.
Here's an example of Moon Knight dodging multiple laser guided machine gun turrets
As @owie has stated and I agree; ultimately it's going to come down to hand-to-hand. In which case, I am still in the belief Moon Knight has the advantage to at least take a majority.
@tparks: speed and agility isn't everything. Your examples don't show someone of Bucky's combat prowess.
Yeah, I can again bring up to you that as the man on the wall, Bucky sniped an alien flying home at Mach speeds distances away. I'm not sure if your familiar with sniping but it's a very hard feat to do, specially if your sniping something 100s of Mike's away if not almost a diameter of a planet away. This isn't a feat to use against Moon Knight, but I'm just pointing out that saying they tag someone fast isn't the same as tagging someone with skill.
Moon Knight isn't tagging the WS because he'll be in the defensive. Bucky shoots far faster than Moon Knight, and if he's rquipped with a rifle he's firing 600 to 1000 bpm coupled with a metal arm that dampens recoil.
Now back to my point, WS is agile and he'll be shooting and firing back. His ski to fire projectiles, deflect, grab and dodge projectiles with that agility is also a bonus.
I've already displayed how the majority of his encounters is of him being handicapped and prevailing. He often dodges but also strikes or shoots performing both offense and defense.
50s cap, he was dodging and punching using acrobats and 50s cap had a shield Bucky had nothing. Zemo, he flipped over him and smacked him in the head and again he was drugged, Bucky was drugged and Zemo had traps plus a powered exoskeleton.
He's shot Wolverine up, he's shot cross bones. What's more impressive is the fact he was able to do the opposite of hitting somekne, he was able to fight off Leo and purposely shoot his GF (BW) while predicting her movements to force her away from himself and Leo so he could finish Leo off. This feat is far more significant then you could imagine because he had to predict her every movement and also shoot her in a way to not allow her to move towards Leo and himself so he counter double teamed. He's also easily shot her up before but she had a shield on her back to deflect the shots and BW was firing her gauntlets at him as well, he had not issues continuously hitting her as she moved around. I've shown you dozens of scans of how BW agility is superior to the both of these men. While trying incapacitate a fellow WS, he didn't want to hurt the Zephyr because they were friends. Both of them were charging through a hospital and two people got in WS way, he was able to fire a explosive round into the Zephyr's gun and blow it up. Later in that fight, he's able to throw a dagger into the other guys gun barrel also while they were fighting IIRC.
Also, a lot of his career was as Captain America, and he knows how to predict and lead targets with projectiles. He's hit Batroc with a shield any many others. It's far harder to hit targets with a shield then it is a gun, firing a gun and leading targets would be far easier than all hisbshield tossing feats which rival Steve Rogers himself
Again, I'm not buying this crescent projectile thing being an issue, not when it takes far more travel and movement for him to throw these darts than a speed shooter like Bucky just to pull a trigger with speeds of shooting out 12 armoured men in vulnerable spots rapidly in seconds.
MK's projectiles fail to do anything to WS. By the time he motions to throw two, Bucky will fire multiple shots at him. He'll have to choose to try and throw more projectiles while bullets are coming at him or start dodging. And sorry, but after MK sees Bucky shoot out his first two projectiles, he's going to see the disadvantage that he's at and will decide to dodge instead.
Meanwhile this gives Bucky plenty of time smoke the place up if he wants, map it out with his domino mask and keep track of MK and stealthy take him out. But I really don't think he'll even need to do that when he can just take him on and beat him with his mechanical arm and electrical shocks.
Moon Knight will be saying Good kNight.
Why Winter Soldier Wins?
Everything said below has been previously illustrated by both SlimJ87D and buildhare, so this is just my vision about the fight:
The metal arm not only puts him above MK in raw strength but also gives Bucky enhanced reaction time. I've seen people arguing about MK showings against Spider-Man, but seriously, we all know how he behaves against street level characters, Punisher has done the same, so has Gambit, Bullseye, Daredevil, X-23, and the list goes on. So being able to neutralize his webbing is a good showing but it doesn't translate to Moon Knight being able to neutralize all of Bucky's gunshot. Sure he can dodge some, but not all of them, especially when you are up against someone capable of shooting Daredevil's billy club mid air, Hawkeye arrows and even cut one of his arrows with a knife, showing how good his reflexes are. Also, for a logic perspective, bullets travel way faster than anything else mentioned thus far.
Most of Moon Knight showings are against Canon fodder and random thugs and generic bad guys. That's so true that people had to consider his utterly PIS fight against Deadpool so he can shine a little. His other showing against Taskmaster should be taken with a grain of salt for obvious reasons and even if we consider it, that kind of fight works only against Tasky, Bucky is a completely different character, if he comes with that routine he will get shot in the head since he likes to take damage so much.
Seriously, what's up with that? At one point Moon Knight wins because he can dodge anything Bucky throws at him, but at the same time he can endure everything because he likes it, his pain tolerance allows him to tank damage and keep fighting.. Really? Show me Moon Knight being able to tank a shot that put Ares down. Show me Moon Knight armor protecting him from head to toe. We all know the armor can't cover his whole body and the Winter Soldier has shown many times how accurate he can be at shooting in specific spots, I won't even bother bringing his feats against fodder, I'll bring Bucky (as Captain America) in freefall being able to shot Crossbones multiple times in very specific locations so he didn't hit any vital organs, he did that after fighting him, Sin and the Serpent Squad all the same time, including having been shot in the back by Crossbones. So even injured and falling from the building window he manage to be that accurate.
For me there's not question he possess the advantage from the start. Bullets travels faster than crescent darts, that's basic, now add the fact you have a marksmen behing the gun, and not just a gun but a Special one designed by SHIELD to have more firepower. Also factor in the background behind the Winter Soldier, also knows as the killing machine, his whole thing is build around killing people, that's what he did for most of his entire carreer, that's what he's known of.
My point its, both Bucky and Moon Knight can dodge projectiles, the difference is that MK is dodging high impact bullets from a proven marksmen, while Bucky is dodging crescent darts. That's it. Now let's consider they both get hit eventually, who get more damage? MK armor can protect him from lethal damage if the bullet hits it but he can't avoid the impact, he will be thrown back to the ground, and if it hit a non protected area, well that's even worst.
Now talking about skill, who has MK beat in a straight up fight using his skill? I hope you are not consider Taskmaster and Deadpool fights, so beside those, what's left? Think about it for a minute. Oh but Marc fought Werewolf, so what? Again, it's a completely different character. I'm not talking about doing this or that, oh he shot Spidey webs and cut the cord of Daredevil's billy club, if you like to take those into consideration let's talk about WS being able to tag Miles Morales, how about that? By some people's logic if you can do anything to a spider character you are automatically above any other street level guy, but that's not how it works. Bucky actually fought and beat skilled characters before, not just canon fodder, like Crossbones 3x, Batroc the Leaper, Black Widow, Wolverine, etc. Bucky has something MK doesn't, consistency (overal better feats), from the beginning of his apparitions to the present day.
In addition, "knowing every martial art style in the planet" doensn't make you the most skilled character in comics, especially when you don't aply half of those martial art in a combat situation. If that was the case, MK wouldn't resort to his pain tolerance so much. He's not the goddam Batman so let's just stop portraying him like that.
To me it seems that MK has a lot of good showings against random characters and most of his other showings are high end feats that doesn't show the consistency of his entire carreer. That's why people are taking those two fights so seriously, holding them at their chest with utmost importance because without it, he's not that good. I'm not saying he never fought anyone, or that he doesn't have the skill to compete, I'm saying most of the feats presented are against cannon fodder, his best feats involves PIS, and the other good showings are against characters he didn't beat, just faced (except for WBN I've already mentioned). Of course he's a skilled character with a good set of gear and all that but IMHO not enough to beat the Winter Soldier in a straight up confrontation.
Thanks again for any support and help for these sporadic fun comments. Battle Forums have a lot to offer in terms of discussion, Tournaments, and Challenge a Viner. The only place to discuss dream matches you would never get to discuss anywhere else. Also if there is any artist who like to make some art for these segments, please do PM me. I post regularly in the Artist Show Off for talent want to make a quick sketch for recognition of their skills.
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Here is a link to the current battle of the week!
http://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/battle-of-the-week-miles-morales-vs-blade-1859737/#62
And here is a link to the previous battle of the week! Encase you want to read through the epic debate or any of the posts we did not cover above!
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