Battle of the Week RESULTS: Lady Shiva vs. X-23

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k4tzm4n

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Edited By k4tzm4n  Moderator

Our latest match was between two deadly and formidable characters: Lady Shiva and X-23. Lady Shiva's one of the top hand-to-hand combatants on her planet and she has no problem taking a life. X-23 is healer with very, very pointy adamantium claws (keep in mind, only her claws are adamantium). What would happen if these two faced off in a dojo like the one we saw in The Matrix? Would the Marvel heroine's physical advantages allow her to outlast Shiva and dish out some major punishment? Would the villain from DC be able to take down her opponent with her bare hands or one of the weapons lining the walls of the dojo? The community has been talking about this fight since Monday and they've reached a conclusion. Ladies and gentlemen, X-23 wins!

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Image by vinomonster & Alexlinde

Lady Shvia was able to gather support from 36% of the voters and 58% sided with X-23. Only 6% thought this was too close to call. So, why'd X-23 take the victory? Despite being less skilled than Lady Shiva, she isn't exactly a sloppy fighter. She was trained to be a highly effective killer. She knows how to put those blades to proper use and she can take a whole lot of punishment before going down for the count. Most voters think she'll simply outlast Lady Shiva. She may take a beating, but eventually, they believe she'll be able to land one good claw attack and that's all she'll need to turn the tide. Shiva may land more hits, but X-23's healing factor is not to be underestimated.

As for why we picked X-23 instead of Elektra, it's because we wanted to avoid the obvious and sincerely believe this is a way more interesting match. There's blatantly obvious parallels between Elektra and Lady Shiva, but they bring the very same advantages to the table. In that debate, you're weighing their skill and how quickly they'd be willing to go for more damaging attacks. It has the potential to be an entertaining fight, but the debate? I just think that's boring because it doesn't have much range. It just doesn't have the same kind of potential. This one required you to analyze several different factors that each bring to the table. One is way more skilled, has more experience, and has a more villainous mentality. The other has greater endurance, 6 blades attached to her (2 of which can be used as a surprise), the ability to withstand what most cannot, and her own level of skill. X-23 has more advantages, but do you think they're more significant? Obviously, many of you believe the answer is "yes" and a fair amount of you do not. Hopefully that made things more interesting to think about because it's not just "who's more skilled? Okay, that pretty much means they would win." Now, let's take a look at what some Viners had to say about the fight. Oh, and I couldn't help but include my thoughts, too.

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Image by ZZoMBiE13

TheAmazingImmortalMan

OK, Let's start with Shiva. Obviously she has the Skill advantage, she was able to best Batman and in h2h and Bats stated that "she may very well be the best fighter alive". She is regarded as the most skilled fighter and assassin in DC. So if this were strictly h2h I would give this to Shiva. One thing that might help her is the assortment of weapons on the wall, to keep distance and help damage Laura and even out the advantage of Laura's claws. It's worth noting that Shiva has a high pain tolerance.

However I do not see her getting past Laura's healing factor and durability. The speed between the two is most likely even so this fight just might take a while. Laura's pain tolerance and damage soak is up there with Logan's and I think that is what is gonna win this fight. Also even though Shiva has the skill advantage does not mean Laura is lacking in that department. Laura has went toe to toe with Daken and Lady Deathstrike in the past. Also being that there is no prior knowledge the claws coming out of her feet might come as a surprise later in the fight. Think Laua throws a kick to her head Shiva blocks and grabs her leg and footsnikt! in the face. At the end of the day no matter what Shiva dishes out X-23 will come back from it. Shiva breaks her ribs, healed. Shiva stabs her with a sword in the dojo, healed. Shiva cuts her face off, healed. Shiva snaps her neck, healed. X-23 stabs Shiva in the throat/head/lungs, Shiva is dead. While it won't be an easy fight vote goes X-23 any day of the week.

jashro44

I'm going to say lady shiva for now. She's arguably in the top 3-5 (the only fighters I think are above her for a fact are Cass, Karate Kid, and Sensei, Batman is debatable) best fighters in DC but what separates her from everyone besides sensei (who doesn't have good stamina) is her ruthlessness. X-23's healing factor is good but its not enough by itself to counter shiva. I can be convinced when I see proof X-23 can hang with someone in shivas weight class.

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HigorM

Really tough call, but IMHO Laura would win in a very bloody fight.

Now, there's no question that Shiva is the top notch martial artist here, surpassing the majority of the fighters in overall skill, but sometimes that's not enough, which for me applies to this case.

Laura is no slouch combat-wise, considering the amount of training she received to become the perfect weapon, but for me what really makes the difference here is the others attributes she brings to the fight. Enhanced senses, adamantium claws from both hands and feet, healing factor and pain resistance, whoa, it's too much. Shiva may be the most skilled fighter between the two but X-23 more than compensates with her stats, powers and own personal abilities. She's fast enough to keep up with Shiva and might only need one single strike to win the fight

Perfect 10

finally some shiva love. i love x-23 too but she doesnt stand a chance. for those who dont know shiva studies a different martial art EVERY YEAR from the master of that form, then challenges and DEFEATS them, making her the new master. x-23 has only really had ONE master, yeah she has trained with a few x-men but that is mostly to hone her skills not to give her new ones. shiva is the number one martial artist in the dc universe, as much as you batboys like to argue that bruce is oh so great and unstoppable NO. we also have black canary and tim drake who were trained by her not to mention her daughter cassandra cain who is the only one who has ever been able to fairly defeat her without aid from shiva being drugged or brain controlled.

shiva wins plain and simple. laura would hold back if she has no reason to kill her, shiva wouldnt, that and skill level would defeat laura

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Wardog2alpha

This is an incredibly tough call. Shiva definitely has more skill, discipline and experience than Laura. As an assassin Shiva is used to going into a fight that she has been able to prepare for against an opponent she has studied. But Shiva is going into this fight knowing nothing about X-23's capabilities and assuming that Laura is as vulnerable as any other human she would face. Attacks that Shiva would use to incapacitate or kill an opponent will affect X-23 differently. I can see Shiva going for a killing or incapacitating blow and assuming X-23 is out of the fight Shiva will leave herself wide open for a kill shot from X-23. But X-23 is momentarily weakened by a serious injury and could leave herself open for decapitation. It's my understanding that X-23's claws are adamantium laced but her skeleton is not. We don't know if X-23 can grow back a head (or body?) but regardless no head would mean that X-23 would not be able to continue the fight.

Also, Shiva will need to depend on her hand to hand expertise unless she has an adamantium or DC equivalent metal blade that will hold up against X-23 strikes. Although the same could be said for X-23 if Shiva just ends up cutting off her hands once she realizes they have knives coming out of them.

I'll hold off on my vote but honestly I feel like this one is to close to call for now.

Gregg Katzman

Sorry, majority, but I'm baaaaaaarely siding with Lady Shiva on this one. I understand why X-23 earned most of the votes (healing, claws, style which focuses on effectiveness) and she absolutely has what it takes to give Lady Shiva all kinds of hell, but I'm siding with Shiva's insanely talented hand-to-hand abilities and her lethal mentality. It's a ridiculously close conflict, though. Now, factors like how X-23 utilizes her foot claw could play a biiiiig role -- that's a dangerous surprise right there -- but I don't think Shiva would underestimate X-23, especially when she immediately sees the hand claws come out and just how quickly her opponent is able to close the gap.

If Wolverine could counter and dodge X's attacks (that's not a jab at him; he's VERY skilled... when he wants to be), I'm confident Shiva could do the same while dishing out attacks of her own. Unlike him, she won't hold back at all. Of course many of her attacks will just faze Laura and they're things the Marvel character can quickly recover from, but Shiva isn't stupid and it won't take long at all for her to see standard strikes aren't going to cut it. She's not unfamiliar with non-humans, after all. She'll have no hesitation going for fatal attacks -- attacks which could lead to an incapacitation. What's stopping her from snapping Laura's neck or savagely using the leopard blow? Or grabbing a bladed weapon off the wall and using that to stab X-23 in the head? If Lady Shiva thinks a stab to the gut will suffice, that'll let Laura get in close and dish out a stab of her own. I don't see that as being a mistake Shiva would make at that point in the fight, though. I see her going for fatal strikes only. Even if it isn't something that immediately put X-23 down (e.g. damage to the throat), it still has the potential to stun her and that gives Lady Shiva the window she'd need to dish out something more effective.

I think her skill edge and lack of morals will allow her to eventually win via incapacitation. It'll be brutal and rough, but I think she has what it takes. It won't be an easy victory and she's going to probably walk away with some cuts and maybe even a stab wound or two, but I'm giving the edge to the fighter with greater skill and experience. Plus, I can't help but wonder how Lady Shiva's barrage of attacks and possible insults will potentially fluster and aggravate X-23. Letting her anger begin to take over will only give Lady Shiva's fluid movements and skill an even greater advantage, I think. But hey, that's just my opinion.

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As always, you're welcome to continue the debate below. Next week, we're going to throw a different Batman villain into the Battle of the Week. Who do YOU want to see and who would you like to see them battle? (Just a heads-up, we're trying to avoid the cliche. So, odds are we're not going to go with something like Deadshot vs. Bullseye.) Share your ideas below or reach out via Twitter. Have a good weekend, everyone, and don't forget to check back on Monday to see what the next battle will be!

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51stPresidentofPlanetNeutral

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I know it's over, and I didn't vote, but I think X-23 would take this fight, but not because of skill, techniques, or durability; she's not going to best Shiva in close-range, hand-to-hand combat. The key to Laura winning this fight is endurance, and she can definitely outlast and take out Shiva the moment she realizes that she's slowing down, even a little bit. Just a small opening is all she needs.
Side note: I honestly think Lady Shiva vs. Daredevil/Snake-Eyes/Misty Knight/Moon Knight/Literally Any Other H2H Superhero/Supervillain would have made for a more interesting and heated debate.

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Hiddenlight

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#2  Edited By Hiddenlight

That was a funny and long debate, both sides had great arguments and despite the screams of my inner fan, I can see why X-23 got the advantage here. I hope the next ones are going to be awesome too.

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MadeinBangladesh

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Darn!!!!! I was looking forward to this being a tie!

~MiB

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AllStarSuperman

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I voted Shiva, there was good points from both sides though.

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deactivated-097092725

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It should have been a closer battle in the polls, but the right person won for all the reasons posted in the OP. I wouldn't have been upset if it had gone the other way and yes, good call on not making this a Shiva/Elektra fight. Mostly for selfish reasons.

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#6 HigorM  Moderator

Indeed this was a very interesting match, with some well thought arguments from both sides. Now i'm curious to see the next one and if it would breed the same amount of discussion, which even led @k4tzm4n to weave his own opinion :)

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sirfizzwhizz

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Wolverine beat Batman all the time, people know this. I see no reason for a lesser Shiva and X-23 to not end up any different.

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jashro44

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Wolverine beat Batman all the time, people know this. I see no reason for a lesser Shiva and X-23 to not end up any different.

Who says shiva is lesser (aside from gear)? Besides wolverine, is a lot more skilled, More durable (adamantium), and physically dominant to X-23. Comparing X-23 to wolverine is like comparing nightwing to batman. Nightwings good but he isn't on Bruces level.

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k4tzm4n

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#9  Edited By k4tzm4n  Moderator

@sirfizzwhizz said:

Wolverine beat Batman all the time, people know this. I see no reason for a lesser Shiva and X-23 to not end up any different.

I understand the parallels you're drawing, but I don't think it's the same thing. For example, Batman's morals play a big role ("how long until he does what he needs to do to stop Wolvie?") and Wolverine's adamantium skeleton is a huge durability booster. Here, Lady Shiva isn't held back by morals and, while not all of her hits are capable of dropping or doing significant damage to X-23, I do believe they'll be felt and she is capable of winning with melee attacks. I don't believe Batman has a fair shot at beating Logan with just unarmed combat.

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deactivated-5a5a76120d2ba

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How about Bane vs. Daredevil sometime this month?

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k4tzm4n

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#11  Edited By k4tzm4n  Moderator

@higorm said:

Indeed this was a very interesting match, with some well thought arguments from both sides. Now i'm curious to see the next one and if it would breed the same amount of discussion, which even led @k4tzm4n to weave his own opinion :)

I hope it does! And yeah, I couldn't resist!

@ms-lola said:

It should have been a closer battle in the polls, but the right person won for all the reasons posted in the OP. I wouldn't have been upset if it had gone the other way and yes, good call on not making this a Shiva/Elektra fight. Mostly for selfish reasons.

Agreed about the poll. Thanks.

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Comicdude360

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@k4tzm4n: deadshot vs... (lMO hawkeye would be cool) needs to happen this month. Or maybe a 2v2 with him and deathstroke.

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k4tzm4n

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#13  Edited By k4tzm4n  Moderator

@misterwhisper said:How about Bane vs. Daredevil sometime this month?

That's a fight I always have fun thinking about, so it's absolutely an option.

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Javo

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ok to

jashro44

I have to correct you there. Lady Shiva is definitely top 10 in the DC universe in terms of hand to hand fighters but not top 3 or 5.

by every account wonder woman is the best fighter in the DC. Black Canary is a close second. Cass in in there somewhere. But shiva and batman are further down the list, huntress has beaten shiva, Bane has repeatedly beaten batman, Ra's al ghul and his daughters all with centuries of training and experience, then there are people like deathstroke. Actually now that i'm counting up it's debatable that Shiva is even top 10 in the dc universe in terms of pure hand to hand skill.

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Outside_85

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There is a part of me that really wished these Battle of the Week didn't have poll's, because so many of them seems to be decided by popularity rather than debate and reasoning.

On the other hand, I admit it the only alternative to having Gregg read through every comment and decide if they make sense or not.

Wolverine beat Batman all the time, people know this. I see no reason for a lesser Shiva and X-23 to not end up any different.

Difference is that Batman is a few degrees short of the level Shiva is on.

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Dark_Stranger

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Darn!!!!! I was looking forward to this being a tie!

~MiB

Only way it'd have been a tie, is if they stopped fist fighting, and started tongue fighting. Am I right or am I right XD

Also just reposting suggestions for next or future battles @k4tzm4n

Y'know just cause I put some thought into these an all ..... so yeah.

Suggestions for future battles.

Bane vs. Wilson Fisk

Ra's Al Ghul & League of Shadows vs. Shredder & The Foot Clan - An not just a bunch of scrubs with their respective leaders, as their support/army. But also their notable members an all. So Shiva, Nyssa, etc for LoS; and Karai, an so on, for the Foot along with a certain number of scrubs and their leaders (Ra's and Shredder) leading them.

Gotham City Sirens vs. 3 of the Marvel Divas (Black Cat, Hell Cat, and Firestar)

Firefly vs. Jack O'Lantern

Black Spider vs. Night Thrasher

Solomon Grundy vs. She-Hulk

Scarecrow & Joker vs. Daredevil

Clayface vs. Spiderman

Jason Todd & Lock-Up vs. The Punisher & Scourge

Anarky vs. Grendel (Christine Spar)

Electrocutioner vs. Shocker

Man-Bat vs. The Lizard

Killer Croc vs. Argent (The enemy of Grendel)

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Lone_Wolf_and_Cub

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This was the right outcome.

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Saren

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Difference is that Batman is a few degrees short of the level Shiva is on.

I have no idea why people believe this; Shiva being Batman's equal I can understand, but what she's ever done to be more than a single tier, even that, above Batman is beyond me.

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TG_54

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damn Zzombie13's artwork is always good. how can i see his other stuff?

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jashro44

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#20  Edited By jashro44

@javo said:

ok to

jashro44

I have to correct you there. Lady Shiva is definitely top 10 in the DC universe in terms of hand to hand fighters but not top 3 or 5.

by every account wonder woman is the best fighter in the DC. Black Canary is a close second. Cass in in there somewhere. But shiva and batman are further down the list, huntress has beaten shiva, Bane has repeatedly beaten batman, Ra's al ghul and his daughters all with centuries of training and experience, then there are people like deathstroke. Actually now that i'm counting up it's debatable that Shiva is even top 10 in the dc universe in terms of pure hand to hand skill.

Canary has been one shotted by batman. Shiva was destroying huntress until she spat blood and got like 2 hits in IIRC. Bane lost his only fight to Ras al ghul......Granted it was a sword fight but he still never won so I'm not sure why you brought that up. Shiva would destroy Ras anyways... Bane has never beaten Bruce without amps, and batman has beaten bane twice once when bane was off venom and the other time in the new 52 when bane was on venom and batman just beat him in hand to hand.

Aside from bane and deathstroke none of the people you mentioned are in the same tier as batman and shiva in skill. I'm not familiar with Ras daughters though.

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#21 Lunacyde  Moderator

Shiva

@saren said:

@outside_85 said:

Difference is that Batman is a few degrees short of the level Shiva is on.

I have no idea why people believe this; Shiva being Batman's equal I can understand, but what she's ever done to be more than a single tier, even that, above Batman is beyond me.

Agreed. If anything in pure H2H skill she edges him, but they're on the same relative tier.....which is the top tier on standard DC Earth.

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@javo said:

ok to

jashro44

I have to correct you there. Lady Shiva is definitely top 10 in the DC universe in terms of hand to hand fighters but not top 3 or 5.

by every account wonder woman is the best fighter in the DC. Black Canary is a close second. Cass in in there somewhere. But shiva and batman are further down the list, huntress has beaten shiva, Bane has repeatedly beaten batman, Ra's al ghul and his daughters all with centuries of training and experience, then there are people like deathstroke. Actually now that i'm counting up it's debatable that Shiva is even top 10 in the dc universe in terms of pure hand to hand skill.

Ra's daughters are in their thirties. The only one of his children who is particularly old is the White Ghost. Wonder Woman would be lucky to make the top 20. Not only has Canary been one-shotted by Batman, she has outright said she'd have to be stupid to pick a fight with him.

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Lol. Greg tips his hand from time to time. In the intro alone it's abundantly clear who his bias is;

Our latest match was between two deadly and formidable characters: Lady Shiva and X-23. Lady Shiva's one of the top hand-to-hand combatants on her planet and she has no problem taking a life. X-23 is healer with very, very pointy adamantium claws (keep in mind, only her claws are adamantium).

Read: Lady Shiva is clearly far superior, and will win against the gimp with the pointy claws. Lol.

You were all subtly influenced!! I'd call for a redo if Viners hadn't stuck to their guns regardless!! :P

I jest of course.

That healing factor would be hard for Lady Shiva to punch through. Though I do think Shiva is clearly the better fighter.

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@k4tzm4n: Good fight, interesting stance. I'm a bit surprised the poll was so lopsided, but I can see why so many sided with Laura. This one was one of those fights where I really think it could've gone either way, both carry their own significant advantages in this one.

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51stPresidentofPlanetNeutral

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Suggestions for the next fight: Bane and William Cobb vs. Quantum and Woody, or The Punisher vs. Killer Croc.

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GraniteSoldier

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@jashro44: To be fair Batman vs Bane was one of those wacky low points for New 52 Bane. DC doesn't seem sure what to do with him. And Pre52 Batman usually needed gear to edge out over Bane. Now this isn't to say Bruce isn't more skilled, but Bane has proven to be close to Bruce. Bane just has the physicals and Bruce has the gear.

And as a big Pre52 Canary fan I must agree...she's not on Bruce's level at all. She's top 15, top 10 at best...not on the top tier though.

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jashro44

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@jashro44: To be fair Batman vs Bane was one of those wacky low points for New 52 Bane. DC doesn't seem sure what to do with him. And Pre52 Batman usually needed gear to edge out over Bane. Now this isn't to say Bruce isn't more skilled, but Bane has proven to be close to Bruce. Bane just has the physicals and Bruce has the gear.

And as a big Pre52 Canary fan I must agree...she's not on Bruce's level at all. She's top 15, top 10 at best...not on the top tier though.

Well new 52 Bane doesn't have a lot of showings. He's pretty inconsistent at the moment. I mean he wrecked batman, than got beat by batman. He wrecked Croc, than lost to croc solo (albeit croc with prep I guess). He did solo the Arkham inmates but they came at him with venom and he beat them by them suffering from venom withdrawal. He did tank a lot of arrows against the talons IIRC but he had william cobbs help in actually beating them IIRC. He did rip some talons heads off which is impressive.

I think as things currently stand pre new 52 bane would probably beat new 52 bane with difficulty. New 52 just doesn't have a lot of showings, and despite his stats he hasn't shown much finesse from what I have seen. In regards to batman needing gear to beat bane pre new 52 I only really recall him tossing a handful of batarangs at bane and using an explosive (which I guess probably helped batman a lot). But there other fights were mostly hand to hand from what I recall and all though Bruce never won those I feel he did usually have a slight upper hand. I agree they are very close in skill and Bane is overall physically better (even off venom). Pre new 52 bane can definitely give batman problems.

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BlueLantern1995

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If I had voted, I probably would have voted for Lady Shiva. Fact is Lady Shiva is the best Martial Artist in the DC Universe who has better Martial Artists than Marvel does on the whole. X-23 would get owned by some of the more powerful Martial Artists of Marvel never mind the most powerful DC Martial Artist.

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deactivated-5a5a76120d2ba

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@k4tzm4n:

@k4tzm4n said:

@misterwhisper said:How about Bane vs. Daredevil sometime this month?

That's a fight I always have fun thinking about, so it's absolutely an option.

I would lean more Pre-ft than new myself.

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Chimeroid

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I think viners are too used to measure power outputs of different characters so when you meet up with someone like Shiva most of them just write her of,

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Bane vs Punisher

Deathstroke vs Sabretooth

Poison Ivy vs Gambit

Catwoman vs Black Widow

Just to name a few

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@k4tzm4n: bane and deathstroke vs Kraven and Doc Ock

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Venom - Clayface

Riddler - Misterio

Poison Ivy - Groot

Joker - Daredevil or Moonight

Shiva - Iron Fist would´ve been great

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GreenLanternDeadpool

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Darn!!!!! I was looking forward to this being a tie!

~MiB

Don't worry... A tie will come... One day.

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Yautja_Theide

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One match I would like to see of course is IDW's TMNT taking on the likes of Joker or Two Face. That would be interesting to see!

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FrankenKong

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I would love to see Killer Croc Vs. The Lizard

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deactivated-5a5a76120d2ba

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I would love to see Killer Croc Vs. The Lizard

That would be a mismatch so big it should get locked.

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Bullet_to_the_Head

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@k4tzm4n: I would like to see Bane as the next Batman villain of the week, just don't know who would be a good match for him, maybe Captain America?

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Bullet_to_the_Head

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@frankenkong: You don't know anything about the Lizard do you? He murderstomps The Killer Croc,

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deactivated-5e291995a18d6

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@jashro44: To be fair Batman vs Bane was one of those wacky low points for New 52 Bane. DC doesn't seem sure what to do with him. And Pre52 Batman usually needed gear to edge out over Bane. Now this isn't to say Bruce isn't more skilled, but Bane has proven to be close to Bruce. Bane just has the physicals and Bruce has the gear.

And as a big Pre52 Canary fan I must agree...she's not on Bruce's level at all. She's top 15, top 10 at best...not on the top tier though.

I challenge you to find a showing where Batman uses gear to defeat pre-52 Bane.

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deactivated-5a04a566e9ae3

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Yay, the filthy flatscan lost!

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Techherofan

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#44  Edited By Techherofan

X-23 did rightfully win this one because in the end this battle would be determined by endurance over skill.

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BlackLegRaph

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Good battle. Hope the next is just as good although no match ups come to mind right now.

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amazing_webhead

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I wonder who's next

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Outside_85

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@saren said:

@outside_85 said:

Difference is that Batman is a few degrees short of the level Shiva is on.

I have no idea why people believe this; Shiva being Batman's equal I can understand, but what she's ever done to be more than a single tier, even that, above Batman is beyond me.

You mean besides that everyone in the comics who know what they are talking about says this?

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christianrapper

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There is a part of me that really wished these Battle of the Week didn't have poll's, because so many of them seems to be decided by popularity rather than debate and reasoning.

On the other hand, I admit it the only alternative to having Gregg read through every comment and decide if they make sense or not.

said:

Wolverine beat Batman all the time, people know this. I see no reason for a lesser Shiva and X-23 to not end up any different.

Difference is that Batman is a few degrees short of the level Shiva is on.

i really doubt that x23 is more popular than lady shiva. i think that if it was a popularity contest, shiva would have won.

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Saren

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@saren said:

@outside_85 said:

Difference is that Batman is a few degrees short of the level Shiva is on.

I have no idea why people believe this; Shiva being Batman's equal I can understand, but what she's ever done to be more than a single tier, even that, above Batman is beyond me.

You mean besides that everyone in the comics who know what they are talking about says this?

Everyone in the comics has tossed the same statements around for a dozen different people at different times.

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Iron_Turtle

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#50  Edited By Iron_Turtle

The right character won.

She's no slouch in the h2h department but her absolutely insane healing factor would be the gamebreaker.

As far as healing ability and damage soak goes she's actually not far behind deadpool.

The girl can regrow lost limbs.

I'm pretty confident that there isn't going to be an awful lot lady shiva could do to permanently put her down. And I rank shiva in DC's top 5 h2h.