Batman Vs Lex Luthor

Ok, I admit my knowledge about Lex was pretty bad. And you changed my mind, Batman loses this one only if Lex destroys the planet while flying far away from Earth. Can you show me the scans of him battling Larfleeze and Firestorm?

@thebourneposter: Seen it, that isn't batman winning, he even says he didn't win, or at least didn't need to win ..... that's him hacking a robot that was about to snap his neck....winning is having the opponent in submission .... like how he was when he was hanging from lex's ceiling .....

@digitalshooter9: Oh, a little more on how well Batman handles Superman

@ancient_0f_days: What is code Damocles?

IIRC that's non-canon

@ancient_0f_days: Winning is also destroying your opponents entire army and ruining his well laid plans. And what happens in that scan after Batman says the code word?

@ancient_0f_days: How many of those scans are canon? I know for a fact that infinite crisis is, and hush, though I heard that hush isnt canon any more, Joker killing batman, that scan, is it canon? And the one where superman speed dodges batmans punch, is that canon? If we are dealing with non canon stuff, I can easily bring up tdkr where supes got the beating of his life, and if not, sacrifice doesnt prove anything whatsoever, on sacrifice, superman randomly attacked an unprepped batman, he wasnt expecting a fight with supes that day, they say batman is always prepared, but for that case he really wasnt as superman simply thought he was darkseid and attacked him head on. Naturally, batman has no chance on a random fight against supes without prep, so he was badly beaten. I figured it is bad writing as batman is shown to be prepared for anything while the author simply leaves him stranded on sacrifice. Again, Batman and superman almost never fought a fair battle in canon content, while lex has, so it should be natural of him having a lot more feats, all I am trying to point out was the rad kryptonite idea really was better than most of lexes plans while batman and superman arent even enemies. No need to get furious....

@dondave: Yes it is....It's in Batman confidential 6, I believe. Oh, and another thing, Batman has mentioned studying( and reverse engineering) every suit in the League database, which could very well include Luthor's anti-Superman suit.

Lex Luthor's resources dwarfed Bruce's, he's also more intelligent.

a bomb in the belt ...

bomb in the belt goes off ....

Batman can't deal with Supes no matter how much prep he has .... that's been proven .... batman cannot beat Lex with prep, he cannot out hack him, saying he can means you'd be saying Batman can out hack Brainiac which is absurd since Brainiac has hacked himself into nearly wherever he wanted to besides Lex's Warsuit cus Lex hacked him back out. He can't win with weapons, the best suits he has have crap durability compared to Lex Luthor's which take shots from Superman, Lex has bigger and better weapons than Batman, and there will be no finding his way out of it since Lex has him outclassed in nearly every way besides personal physical structure.....but this isn't a body building contest or a martial arts tournament, Lex has his warsuit and Batman can have his insider suit, boom tube gauntlet, whatever he think he needs and still lose horribly, cus whatever Lex makes for killing Kryptonians is durable enough to fight them, and Batman is not a kryptonian.....case closed. Lex Luthor wins in a murderstomp.

This would be an interesting fight. Batman is used to fighting all sorts of villains, super-powerful but also criminal geniuses. He's so experienced dealing with the unexpected as well as keeping several steps ahead of his opponents. So I'm confident Batman would win! BUT, I can also imagine Lex getting away at the last minute when he realizes he's outclassed - he always has multiple escape plans.

Explain to me how a guy who fights Superman is going to be outclassed by Batman....go into detail, imma grab some pop corn right quick. This gon be gud

Superman was going along with mankind laws and policy thats why he didnt kill Lex instantly , i think Batman is smarter than Superman so he could send Lex to jail several times and Lex would commit suicide lol

Does Lex's suit which he's using to fight Kryptonians has Kryptonite or red sun radiation?

It's canon, but that's a Lex android, not the real thing.

He loses regardless of Lex destroying the planet or not. He neutralized Firestorm's powers and then Cheetah and Joker beat him up while he was defenseless.

Gallery

VS Larfleeze:

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Oh, and the weaker Morrison-era Superman that couldn't fly and was knocked out by a rocket launcher---- the one Batman and his more experienced Earth-2 counterpart with kryptonite tech were both helpless against? The one Bruce said he had no counter for and would kill him with a casual sneeze? Lex promised to have him knocked out and delivered to the military by 8 PM, and he delivered. Right at 8:00, not a second later.

Gallery

He'd probably figure out how to become immortal during that time

It's still being disputed that Lex can beat Batman. Even after all that's been done and provided for in support of Lex. Sheesh you can't get through some people.

@ancient_0f_days: Stop wanking lex, and tell me when was it proven that batman cannot beat supes with prep, just where? Tower of babel and hush are good examples in batmans favour, In hush, batman had almost NO prep and just a tiny kryptonite ring and was still able achieve what he wanted, TOB, clearly shows that batman can use his artificial kryptonite to take down supes.He was getting hurt to death for gods sake, his skin turned transparent causing him the biggest pain ever, and you still deny the fact that batmanncan handle supes with prep? Without prep, I get it, Sacrifice would prove your point, but just by that, you cannot claim batman loses, only bevause it is bad writing that batman wasnt prepared while he should have been. And honestly, unless lex destroys the planet, there is nothing he could do to prevent Bruce from snapping his neck.

@lvenger: Please, what proof? Just explain them, either there are none or I havent seen any?

@digitalshooter9: ...Have you been reading this thread? Like at all? Your comment doesn't indicate that. And I can ask the same of you for providing proof for Batman.

We can look at it another way. When has Batman ever come close to beating Superman without Krptonite? never as far as I can tell.

Lex on the other hand has on countless occasions. In the new 52 he already had Superman beaten, the only reason Supes survives is because a random character showed up that Clark had never met teleported him to safety and saved him.

@lvenger: Proof?

Lex got whooped by the joker.

It has been stated thet batman is the most dangerous man on earth.

Batman deals with Ras who is stronger than lex

He has been able to handle supes better than lex for the most of the time.(Lex was closer to killing him although TOB was no joke, but superman faced lex like 100 times where he faced batman like 3 or so. But batman is not even obsessed with killing supes like lex is, but still did a better job for the most.

@dextersinister: Ok Lex has been closer to killing superman, but dont forget that batman is supermans friend and they dont get to fight as much as supes fights with lex. If batman was supermans arch enemy like lex is, he would have come up with stuff more than just those contingencies. Apparently, the joker had been closer to killing the batman than the flash, does that mean the joker beats the flash? No? That is what your arguement is about.

Guess who else has been beaten by the Joker?

Feats>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Statements. Lex has proven to be the most dangerous man on Earth via feats. Stop hogwashing fallacious statements into warped arguments for your Batman fanboyism. And in regards to one of your replies to ancientofdays about me being a 'Batman hater', for the record, Batman is my second favourite superhero and comic book character. Shocking I know that a Batman fan can go against Batman winning something

...Sure if you say so (he said sarcastically)

Oh I didn't know getting his ass handed to him by Superman on most of their fights counted as handling him better than Lex who has had Superman at his mercy several times. Yeah this is getting really derivative now. Got anything better or are you just going to rehash the same arguments with your fingers in your ears?

@lvenger: Name one fight where batman had prep and got his ass handed to him by supes

@lvenger: Is that joker killing him even canon? And if you didn't really hate batman, you wouldnt be so delusional claiming lex would beable to beat him.

@digitalshooter9:

Lex got whooped by the joker.

Luthor had the Joker beaten in a straight up fight when they where left in the wild, the Joker used equipment to get the upper hand. Lex does not go unguarded like that in his day to day business.

It has been stated thet batman is the most dangerous man on earth.

and WW reacts faster than Superman according to Bats despite physical evidence of Superman being able to react in a slow downed world as normal. Hyperbole.

Batman deals with Ras who is stronger than lex

Physically yes, technology no, resources possibly but unlikely, henchmen not a chance when Lex is normally the head of villain societies and creates people who are of Superman level strength and durability (but not speed).

He has been able to handle supes better than lex for the most of the time.(Lex was closer to killing him although TOB was no joke, but superman faced lex like 100 times where he faced batman like 3 or so. But batman is not even obsessed with killing supes like lex is, but still did a better job for the most.

Lexs obsession with Superman has been a proven hindrance just as many times. Superman would be dead if Lex viewed him as he does Batman just another threat,for example when he had god like powers he could have just finished him at any time but he didn't. His need to prove his superiority over Clark is much greater than his wish to see him dead.

Amount of times is irrelevant as Bruce has never displayed the ability to take down someone with Krytonian stats and no obvious weaknesses.

I still don't see how Lex can beat Batman except by blowing up the planet which will probably not happen.

@digitalshooter9: For one, the most recent fight between the Morrison jeans wearing Superman and the more experienced Earth 2 Batman. Earth 2 Bats had a Kryptonite shield tailored to the power level of Earth 2 Superman yet New 52 Superman still tosses the Kryptonite away and slaps Earth 2 Bats up despite being weakened. How's that for you?

@dextersinister: If that is your arguement, you must accept luthor is way stronger than supes. If that is what your saying. Plus how would luthor match up to Ras al ghuls army? By creating a lab made artificial clone army or something? Please,

Batman wasnt even fighting there, he was more concerned about clark and was trying to help him, If he wanted, he could have beaten jeaned clark before he threw the knite off as batman ALLOWS him to do it. He even tells clark that he was going to get the knite out what so ever. You must be REALLY delusional to think a powerless clark would beat bruce, after those punches, he BARELY made bruce bleed a little near his mouth while all bruce wanted to do was talk.

@lvenger: That's not Batman. That's a cop who dressed up as Batman.

Joker did beat Batman recently in DotF, however. For that matter Harley has one-shotted Batman as well, if we're really lowballing.

Luthor cloned Doomsday. Exactly what do you think Ra's army is going to do to Doomsday?

Honestly, we should all just let this thread die. There's nothing left but DigitalShooter9's feeble rants, and I know from personal experience that the guy is far too much of a fanboy to see any kind of reason, and a whole bunch of other posts about how Batman wins but the posters can't justify that beyond "Oh, he's more tactical" or "Oh, we've never seen a bloodlusted Batman". Justify your stance or go home.

Batman shows up before he finishes cloning and snaps his neck? And how isnlex going to control doomsday who destroys everything on his sight.

Incorrect. Superman is also held back by his morals, if Lexs plan fails all Superman can really do is send him to prison despite the man being able to play the legal system like a set of drums and sway public sympathy like no other.

Superman also has a technological know-how that's a good bit above Bruces but still below Lexs which is only really shown within his own books as they cannot really have him overshadow league members in every respect.

How would the League take down Shaggy Man, Blockbuster or meta-gene enhanced mercenaries? they wouldn't. Lex could have asked Sinestro to flatten LOS headquarters whenever he has 5 minutes to spare but Lex and Ras normally have a good working relationship.

@citizenbane: Oops I forgot that was from Morrison's early Batman run. Thanks for reminding me.

And Doomsday will listen to Luthor? Or he will kill every living being he sees? As I said, the only way for Lex to win is to blow up the planet, there is nothing shown here to prove Lex wins except blowing the planet.

Why wont blowing up the planet happen? Lex is bloodlusted here as well. And honestly the pro batside hasn't even brought anything up to beat Lexs standard war suit let alone a prepped Luthor.

The cloned Doomsday certainly did a good enough job of fulfilling Lex's wishes when it nearly beat Superman to death again in Superman #175. Lex doesn't need to go "Sic 'em, boy!" on Doomsday. Arranging to have Doomsday dropped from the sky in front of Bruce and then teleporting away to watch the fun should suffice.

Neither you nor anyone here has provided a shred of evidence to support the notion that Bruce operates remotely on Lex's level. You'll forgive me if I take your opinion with a grain of salt.

And honestly, I don't see why Doomsday even has to feature in this discussion. Lex also cloned Superboy and Bizarro, both of whom are more receptive to instructions, if people have a problem with Doomsday for whatever reason.

Hmmm ok, Lex won, this thread needs to be closed :)

@juiceboks: @ancient_0f_days: @comicstooge: /s

Well said, man. This is what many people don't seem to want to acknowledge.

EDIT: Though, we've actually not seen very good evidence supporting a no-stomp defeat for Batman in this thread. Not to say it isn't out there.

EDIT 2: I think it's fairly safe to say that Luthor takes the victory here... but it is by no means a stomp. Anyone who wants to say Luthor stomps is probably letting loose "the fanboy within" just a little too much. He takes it, but it's a hard fought victory against the Batman. (Bats might get him in round two, though.)

I believe Lex has more resources available becauae he is constantky battling superman and the entire league himself. So I can see Bruce losing here.

Batman has decent engineering feats...space ship at light speed, insider suit, he also designed the watchtower IIRC? Not to mention the science involved in all of that, as well as coming being able to synthesize Kryptonite, study new technology and beings etc..

He has resources, he has knowledge, he has skill all at a level to make things hard for Lex. Would Lex win? Maybe. Would Lex stomp? No, that's ridiculous.

I just wanted to add a point of clarification. The onuis is equally on Lex fans. I wouldn't say that has done more impressive things, he has simply done impressive things of a different type. Showing Lex blowing up a planet does not prove that he would stomp Bruce.

Sorry.

s

So he couldn't build something if he wanted to? If Bruce wanted to blow up a planet, he could. No, I can't prove that, I just think he we have seen enough of his science and engineering proficiency that it should be a given.

How is this fight not fair on Bruce? Batman wouldn't do the type of things people are showing Lex doing as feats, because it is out of character. Batman being bloodlusted is also out of character, so who knows what he would be capable of?

Again, Batman hasn't tried to kill Kryptonians. Batman doesn't kill. Lex Killing isn't more impressive than Batman not killing, it's just different. Sorry.

You can do the same.

How about making a good argument, rather than crappy ABC logic? Lex killing Kryptonians after catching them by surprise is all but irrelivant to the battle being discussed.

Cloning is pretty simple. If you're going to go that route, then why couldn't Bruce do the same?

Thanks. I'm not sure why people keep thinking Lex killing Kryptonians is relevant.

Fine. Lex has also depowered Firestorm, broken Brainiac's neck with his bare hands, defeated Larfleeze, killed Libra and turned himself into a reality-warping god. Batman has not done anything to compare.

How about you make an argument, any kind of argument, even a crappy one? All you've said so far is "Oh, we don't know that Batman can't do all the things Lex can do." If I rolled my eyes any harder, they'd pop out of their sockets.

If cloning is so simple, go ahead and show me all the clones Batman has created on the level of something like Doomsday. Or even Superboy. I'll wait.

There isn't a reply you can offer beyond "Batman doesn't do that sort of thing. Doesn't mean he can't!". There is no argument of any worth you can provide if that is the only point you can raise. Batman has never done anything to suggest he can blow up the planet. Again, your only counter is "We don't know he can't just because he's never done it!". The reason we use feats to establish characters' limits and capabilities is precisely to eliminate this kind of vague, pointlessly ambiguous beating around the bush.

If this is really the sum quality of your argument, you're honestly in no position to question anyone else's logic.

Still siding with Batman if this is the new 52.

Has Batman not done similar stuff to depowering Firestorm? I will go through my stash later, but IIRC he has depowered numerous superpowered villains.

I'm not familiar with Lex defeating Larfleeze, can you give me the issue and number so I can read it?

How about you make an argument, any kind of argument, even a crappy one? All you've said so far is "Oh, we don't know that Batman can't do all the things Lex can do." If I rolled my eyes any harder, they'd pop out of their sockets.

Actually, that's not true. I did make an argument. It may well be crappy, but it's still an argument. More so than "But he can kill kryptonians!"

If cloning is so simple, go ahead and show me all the clones Batman has created on the level of something like Doomsday. Or even Superboy. I'll wait.

Come on now, that's just dumb. So because Bruce hasn't cloned anyone, he can't clone anyone? Really? That's the same argument you accuse me of making. Cloning is simple, we can do it in labs in the real world. What makes you think Bruce as an accomplished scientist isn't capable of doing something so trivial?

Cloning Superboy or Doomsday was never portrayed as a scientific feat, just as part of an evil plan.

There isn't a reply you can offer beyond "Batman doesn't do that sort of thing. Doesn't mean he can't!". There is no argument of any worth you can provide if that is the only point you can raise. Batman has never done anything to suggest he can blow up the planet. Again, your only counter is "We don't know he can't just because he's never done it!". The reason we use feats to establish characters' limits and capabilities is precisely to eliminate this kind of vague, pointlessly ambiguous beating around the bush.

Except Most of Lex's feat's that you've been showing don't illustrate anything relevant to the battle at hand. Feats are useful in context.

Batman designed a spaceship that can go beyond lightspeed. Has Lex? That must mean Lex isn't capable of doing so.

It's flawed logic, and you're smart enough to know it.

To determine if Bruce could blow up a planet or not, we have to establish how complicated that is. I don't think it's more complicated or requires more specialized knowledge than designing a spaceship, or a watchtower, or an insider suit. Do you disagree?

If this is really the sum quality of your argument, you're honestly in no position to question anyone else's logic.

Luckily, it isn't, and I am.

I agreed Lex would win by sending Doomsday after Bats or blowing up the planet, but you're still throwing at us stupid arguments like depowering Firestorm. So Lex is capable of depowering Batman lol? Brainiac's strength is dependable on his ship, I read that story long ago, but I think Lex killed him outside of his ship. And what exactly Luthor did to Larfleeze in that fight? BFR'd him? I've seen here on the Vine that Atrocitus, Black Adam and other powerhouses lose horribly to Larfleeze, so Lex wouldn't stand a chance against him in fair fight.

In Tower of Babel, Batman shows that he has the ingenuity to take out the entire League if he so chooses - including Superman. Lex Luthor doesn't accomplish that.

You want to justify your opinion, rather obnoxiously, by reasoning that since Lex can confront Superman he must be able to defeat Batman. In law school, we call this an invalid argument - a fallacy. Allow me to explain. Lex doesn't fight Superman on a physical level, except when he developed that tacky suit. However, he was NOT on Superman's level. Superman can get knocked around, but he's not using his full force against Lex - he only does that against Darkseid. Anytime he's facing anyone else, he's holding back as has become second nature to him since he was raised on Earth. As such, note that Batman also physically faces off against Superman in The Dark Knight Returns storyline by Frank Miller when he's already an old man. Again, Superman was holding back (more accurately, he'd been somewhat weakened by the nuclear blast), but he was actually prepared to kill him this time which he doesn't do against Lex. The point is, that in this fight, an aged Batman was pushed further than Lex ever has been in a fight with Superman. He does alright but wasn't going to win - but he manages to fake his death and even fool Superman. Again, Batman demonstrates that he always has a plan and a way to achieve his goal.

It's not about adding up IQ points or who has the most advanced alien technology. Batman can outmaneuver his enemies, even though he is physically weaker than nearly all of them. He's also faced criminal geniuses before - the Joker is much more unpredictable than Lex. The challenge isn't that Lex is smart - it's that he's got greater resources.

So how would those resources stack up against Batman? Well, many want to point out Luthor's biggest resource (which Superman has already defeated, so obviously he would have to make another one) which is Doomsday or another Superman clone. Considering he's a genius, I can't see him being so obvious and unimaginative when it comes to fighting Batman (who is a completely different opponent than Superman), but for argument's sake, let's go with it. Even if Lex has DD or some Super-clone to use against Batman, why does anyone think that Batman would stupidly try to fight a super-powered clone hand to hand? He's not an idiot! You've given him a month of prep time and you think he won't be prepared for anything? Not happening. He's always over-prepared. With a month of prep-time, Batman would hack into Luthor's files. We can reasonably expect him to be prepared because that's his M.O.

Lex is formidable, nearly impossible to convict and hold in prison - but he is not impossible to defeat. His own record is against him.

If Batman can plan contingencies for all members of the Justice League, continuously defeat super-powered villains and evil geniuses, come out on top even when he's outnumbered and outgunned, I really can't think it likely that there's anything Lex can do that would defeat Batman.

Example: Batman defeats Darkseid

Mr. Ancient, I hope you enjoyed your popcorn. I admit to being a bit of an intellectual snob and grammar police, so please use spell check if you would like to direct any further comments to me.

The Firestorm Matrix is an artifact possessing power on a universal scale. Manipulating it is an extremely impressive feat. If you think Batman has feats that rival that, present them.

Action Comics 898. Scans are up ^.

Could have fooled me.

Because it's not that trivial, and your stance here is one of the most ridiculous no-limits fallacies I've ever seen on this site. We can clone farm animals. We've never even moved beyond cloning a handful of human embryos. You think we can clone a Doomsday given his genetic material, alien DNA that we've never seen before and that is, in canon, hard to duplicate perfectly? Just because we cloned flipping Dolly? Talia al Ghul, with all the scientific knowledge money can buy, couldn't clone Damian Wayne properly; she created a malformed freak with a body accelerated far beyond its mind. Evidently cloning a Doomsday is not as simple as you would like to pretend. Your position is akin to claiming that if you can cook something as simple as an omelette, you can automatically and by correlation cook a perfect three-course meal that could be served in a Michelin-starred restaurant. Come on.

And cloning Doomsday has been portrayed as a scientific feat. Darkseid himself couldn't figure out how to clone Doomsday perfectly, and he's Darkseid. The guy has created beings more powerful than Orion and Lightray put together and bombs that could unravel time itself. Doomsday's genetic structure was something he couldn't wrap his head around; all the clones he created were weak imitations of the original. So he went to, you guessed it, Lex Luthor, and told him that if Luthor cloned him a perfect Doomsday, Earth's war debt to Apokolips would be cleared. Luthor delivered.

Yes, Lex has. Lex has built spaceships that can fly to different galaxies; he was the one who built the tech that brought all the villains on the prison planet in a distant sector of the universe back to Earth; he's reverse-engineered Kryptonian travel pods and set them to fly to different dimensions; he's even reverse-engineered their tech to create localized time-travel and talk to people in the past in other galaxies. There is literally nothing Bruce has built that Lex has not bettered in some way or the other. And what is this spaceship, anyway?

Perhaps if you came up with a more pertinent example, your claim of flawed logic might work.

Of course I disagree. Designing a spaceship has absolutely nothing to do with destroying a planet. Batman did not design the Watchtower. It was built on the foundations of the old JLA Satellite Base, and then with modified technology harvested from the Hyperclan's base in the Still Zone. Steel and Martian Manhunter have had more input on the Watchtower's design than Batman. Batman designed portions of the post-Watchtower Hall of Justice, but according to Wonder Woman most of the designs were John Stewart's work. The Insider Suit is not even capable of destruction on a city-level basis. Nothing Batman has ever built has ever exhibited that level of destructive capability. Period.

If nonsense is all you can come up with, you might as well warn me beforehand.

Again, could have fooled me.

Good lord, Batman never defeated Darkseid. Literally one page later, he gets Omega Beam'd away. It took the Black Racer to defeat Darkseid in that story. Seriously, you people need to actually read Final Crisis instead of posting pretty pictures you find on the internet.

While you're not throwing any kind of argument at all.....get real. Manipulating the Firestorm matrix is a feat of scientific acumen that Batman has not shown the ability to replicate.

I literally gave you the scans. Come on. At least pretend.