@veshark:
I understand that it right to assume current versions, but Nightwing/Batman in the picture is pre-flashpoint. If that is the case, their team work skills and ability to work cohesively is immaculate. They took down a freaking amazo together. Even if Steve and Bucky do work well together, do they have any feats that suggest that they can fight/strategize as cohesively as Bruce and Dick?
Well as you said, the rules do state that unless otherwise mentioned, the most current versions of the characters are being contested. Should the OP state that these are the pre-FP versions, I'll gladly concede that Team Batman has better team chemistry. But just based of the New 52, I don't think that's necessarily true. I know some might argue that pre-FP feats still count as part of continuity, but honestly the timeline's pretty muddled up, and as I said, how long could Nightwing and Bats have operated together in a five-year span?
As for the Amazo feat, I feel some context needs to be served - that it was a stripped-down prototype, and that they used the Batmobile to basically BFR it.
One notable feat of Steve and Bucky working together would be to take down a Sleeper (a giant robot) by using Master Man. While it's not mind-blowingly impressive, we do see some good teamwork here. Cap reminds Bucky of 'that time in Poland when we took down the original Master Man', and they manage to get Master Man to fly through the Sleeper robot, creating a giant hole. Cap then gives Buck a concussion charge, and Cap (knowing that he's been targeted as a secondary objective by the Sleeper), distracts the Sleeper long enough for Bucky to drop the charge inside the Sleeper, detonating it and destroying the robot. What makes it impressive was that these are two street-levelers taking down a giant robot, not to mention that it was the first time they had worked together since 1945 (over sixty years?).
It would be hard to debate that Bucky is more skilled than Dick is based off of military training. Nightwing's hand-to-hand feats in my honest opinion, outclass Bucky's feats. (assuming that this is in fact pre flashpoint). Bat-family training simply outclasses raw military training. They are both capable of embarrassing entire squadrons of highly trained spec-ops units. I believe Bat family gear simple outclasses any gear that Steve or Bucky bring to the table. I can back this up if you like, they are both armed to the teeth with weaponry. This is specially effective in round two, hat can Steve or Bucky do against explosives powerful enough to blow of Amazo's legs and kill Doomsday clones?
Not just military training alone, but just the years of combat he's seen. And much of his combat isn't just conventional armed warfare - he frequently goes up against superhuman forces both in his time with the Invaders during WWII, as well as his time under the control of the USSR. It's not so much just 'military training', but actual combat experience to factor (which surpasses Nightwing's by a good decade or two). To give a good feat, he's twice defeated Crossbones (a combatant who frequently gives Cap trouble) - and both times Crossbones had the drop on him, and in the second he even had the help of Sin. As I said earlier, I don't really see Nightwing's pre-52 feats as being valid, I'm mostly just looking at what he's done in the New 52.
As for the actual gear, again to my knowledge, we haven't seen much from new-52 Nightwing aside from electric shocks and batons. I definitely agree that Bats surpasses Cap in terms of overall gear, but I feel that Winter Soldier is bringing more to the table against Nightwing. His bionic arm is powerful to tear off Iron Man's faceplate and is capable of creating a EMP pulse to shut down any electronic gear. He carries lethal firearms and grenade charges - and is willing to cripple or kill enemies to get the win. Those explosive charges are great and all, but I don't see the Bat-Team using them save for Round 2 (and even then, it's only if you take into account pre-52 gear).
I completely agree with this. For the sake of the OP, i think that if Bruce and Dick go in for the kill, they win round 2 hands down. They are, in my opinion more adept in their use of pressure point attacks/nerve strikes, not to mention the plethora of potentially lethal gear that they bring to the table.
Indeed, they would have more gear to draw from in the Batcave. Even New-52 wise, I'd have to give Round 2 to Team Batman.
Log in to comment