@Erik:
I never said Batman did not have sections that are bulletproof. I know his cowl, chest and gloves and boots are protected. But those are the only things I have ever seen protected against bullets or blade attacks.
His cape is protected as well.
Note that in the No Man's Land scans, Bruce remarks that he survived because he wasn't shot with armor-piercing rounds, indicating that his armor is in fact bulletproof, not just certain sections of his outfit.
And there are a few instances of criminals opening fire straight at his chest and remarking that he seemed bulletproof.
I don't have a scan of this unfortunately, but I seem to remember in one of the first few issues of the 2009 Batman and Robin series, Red Hood fires a shotgun at Dick's chest point blank and remarks that he knows it will not stop him because of the armor, though he will still feel pain.
In fact, I have seen Batman's suit torn on several occassions where he fought a particularly difficult opponent and aside from the parts I mentioned, there is no apparent protection underneath the cloth.
As have I. The only argument I can offer to this point is that the level of protection beneath the cloth varies.
Are we certain that Owen Mercer can move faster than Gambit?
I am fairly certain that Owen Mercer is faster than Gambit by a considerable margin.
I fully suspect that Batman can dodge one or two cards, Gambit is no Bullseye. But to assume that Batman will never get hit despite Gambit's abilities is a bit of a stretch. And what would Batman's strategy be? Close the gap and take it H2H? Get up close and personal with the guy whose touch can kill him? Throw a batarang at him when surely Gambit could catch and send it back charged?
Gambit could certainly tag them a few times, but I doubt that his attacks will have as much of an effect on them as their attacks will have on him. I don't know why we're talking about Gambit's touch killing Batman when this fight is in character and Gambit's knowledge of his opponents is just that they are skilled fighters. He is not killing anyone with a touch here. He has gone H2H with people before in character, and if he does so here he loses then and there since he cannot beat either Bruce or Dick in a H2H fight. And either Bruce or Dick only need to touch Gambit once to do this:
That is a 150,000 volt electrical charge, not something Gambit is going to just shrug off. I would raise an eyebrow if it did not KO him then and there, but at the very least he is going to be weakened a great deal by it. For comparison's sake, back in Dick's 1996-2009 solo series, he used a much weaker shock (I think it was 50,000 volts, can't be certain) and put a hurting on Grimm, a gorilla from Gorilla City. If Grodd and Solovar are any indication, the denizens of Gorilla City are so much more durable than Gambit it's not even funny.
And Gambit can catch a batarang, sure, but it is just as likely that the batarang can strike him as well. Batman's marksmanship showings have him slicing an arrow fired by Artemis in half mid-air with a batarang, and pulling off a shot that Deathstroke said was impossible to perform. At the highest/bordering on PIS end, he's taken out Zealot's eye with a batarang. Zealot is fast enough to fight Midnighter H2H for 4 hours non-stop, which as feats go is a lot more impressive than Gambit going toe-to-toe with Daredevil. Dick himself has used tranquilizer batarangs to tag and take down the Sensei, a man so fast he utterly curbstomped Batman during The Resurrection of Ra's al Ghul.
- I do not doubt Brick's durability. I doubt the strength of the bomb and the design of the suit as you seem to be leading me to believe. Batman is no Iron Man. I am fully willing to accept that the armor can save his life in certain explosive situations. I am not willing to accept that his suit can sustain artillery attacks in sections other than the ones I have been shown are protected. It makes no sense that the cloth of Batman's suit is heavy duty armor when we have seen key areas of it damaged and destroyed as normal cloth would be.
It makes even less sense that his suit can tank explosions from right in front of him and have absolutely nothing to show for it and yet be normal cloth in key areas. Normal cloth cannot do that.
- And if that armored individual had not been enhanced to super human capabilities, he might have been hurt or even killed.
Captain America might certainly be on average more durable than Batman, but I would argue that the gulf in durability between the two is not really noteworthy; Cap is not so much more durable than Batman that the same attacks that barely affected Steve would devastate Bruce.
- Peak level agility can only take you so far and I suppose I would appeal to your reason on the matter over the grand, high-end feats. I would not go as far as to say that Dick could not tag these opponents in fair fights but I would go as far as to say that excluding moments of PIS/CIS, Dick SHOULD not be able to tag some of the above mentioned individuals.
I would argue that Gambit going toe-to-toe with Daredevil is a high end feat for the cajun as well, given that Daredevil's agility is really second only to Spider-Man's as far as Marvel street levelers go. Dick didn't tag Starfire and SuperBat, he dodged their attacks. In a fight where everyone involved was serious, I agree that tagging them would be absurd.
Especially when Batman, who so far outstrips Dick that Dick cannot lay a finger on him unless Bruce wills it, is only peak human speed.
I don't know, Batman has quite a few eyebrow-raising feats to his credit. Yes, he is only supposed to be peak human speed, but what he is supposed to be and what he is usually portrayed as rarely if ever match up.
Side note, I disagree with how the fight between Batman and Nightwing went in Batman #600. It makes sense to me that Bruce would win, even that he would win without a great deal of difficulty, but Dick not even being able to touch him is nonsense.
- And when he goes in for a little rough play, X-23 could end up surprising him with several of her lethal assets. X-23 is roughly on par with Wolverine in speed and Wolverine is faster than Gambit. So without getting too into an entirely different debate, logic would dictate that X-23 is about as fast as Gambit, maybe a little faster. That in addition to her exclusively lethal training will make her a handful when pressed. I doubt she would start with her best though due to her newfound desire for humanity though, so I do believe there is a window of opportunity for her opponent to close her down since she will not be utilizing the full extent of her training initially but I also do not think that window is going to last long. Especially if Gambit is losing against his opponent.
She could, yes, but Batman could use that window to freeze her with freezarangs or just unload his electric attacks (which are also available in projectile mode) to slow her down for a while, and if he comes to the realization that her claws are metal, which should not really be hard to figure out, he could do what he did to a recent group of assailants that came at him with sharp pointy objects. Magnetize them so that they stick to a nearby metal surface. X-23 would be stuck to a wall or something by her hands and legs, essentially a sitting duck at that point.
@Lunacyde said:
@Recoil1985: I don't know if you realize this n00b but your thread sucks. We hold ourselves to a higher standard around here.
Oh, also, I just finished X-Men Legacy #267 and Moon Knight took regular-morals-Gambit's cards without too much of a problem. Lost some of his costume, which last I checked was not as durable as Batman's, and remarked that it hurt, but he was fine otherwise.
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