Batman Battle of the Month: Batman vs. Cyclops

This topic is locked from further discussion.

Avatar image for k4tzm4n
k4tzm4n

41857

Forum Posts

9127

Wiki Points

74651

Followers

Reviews: 16

User Lists: 1

k4tzm4n  Moderator

Poll Batman Battle of the Month: Batman vs. Cyclops (741 votes)

Cyclops 44%
Batman 50%
Too close to call 6%

Match Rules

  • Combatants are in character.
  • This is a random encounter.
  • They're fighting in a generic downtown city setting. It's unpopulated, at night and all standard city lights remain on. Assume they start roughly 30 feet apart and visible. There's a fair amount of cover between them (parked vehicles, bus stops and such). The entire area is on limits. This means alleys, rooftops, building interiors, etc..
  • All characters have standard gear.
  • This is PRE-PHOENIX FORCE Cyclops. This way he actually has control of his power.
  • Incapacitation, knockout or death all count as elimination.

Viners, you have the week to research, debate and vote! This means there's no reason to vote right away if you don't have all of the info you need to make an educated decision. Check the homepage Friday for an updated article with the following:

  • My extended thoughts on the match.
  • A Viner Argument in favor of the poll's winner (can't include scans and must be in this poll thread).
  • Extra thoughts from other Comic Vine staffers.
  • If we're lucky, blurbs from industry talent.

Feel free to make future match suggestions in the comments below or via Gregg's Twitter page.

 • 
Avatar image for yourneighborhoodcomicgeek
YourNeighborhoodComicGeek

21616

Forum Posts

23390

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 11

User Lists: 15

If Batman wins this,I'll lose my faith in these Batman VS.It just cant be that Batman wins against a guy that can level a whole mountain just by lookin at its direction.

Too bad humans aren't mountains. Would you blow up an entire mountain like you would blow up a densely packed group of humans? No, that is called morals, and that is what is holding back Cyclops from earning such a stomp of a win.

Avatar image for jashro44
jashro44

57695

Forum Posts

253

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@jashro44 said:

@yourneighborhoodcomicgeek:

My bad on the first part. I was under the impression that on top of the rate of fire of his optic blasts, he also had a very large focused power on the missiles to take them out, which he would never use on a human. Still, I thought the power of his blasts was more based on how wide the blast would be?

The wider his blasts are the less powerful they are suppose to be. All though he can control the intensity of his blasts. For example in the scan I showed you he was clearing a forest with a wide blast.

True. What would you weigh on the possibility of Batman moving out of the radius in general after seeing the first couple of blasts like that? Seeing how analytic The Dark Knight is, I'd say its a significant chance.

I agree batman will probably just avoid cyclops range after seeing the blasts the problem being though is he likely wont be conscious after the first wide blasts and he probably wont be able to dodge it.

I see. From what I've seen from Scott in character, hopefully he sticks to precise optic blasts for the first volley so that Bruce has time to clear out.

He probably will use slimmer blasts in most scenarios. I mainly brought up the wider blasts to say he can take a few wins that way and to show his optic blasts are pretty versatile.

Avatar image for yourneighborhoodcomicgeek
YourNeighborhoodComicGeek

21616

Forum Posts

23390

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 11

User Lists: 15

@jashro44 said:

@yourneighborhoodcomicgeek said:

@jashro44 said:

@yourneighborhoodcomicgeek:

My bad on the first part. I was under the impression that on top of the rate of fire of his optic blasts, he also had a very large focused power on the missiles to take them out, which he would never use on a human. Still, I thought the power of his blasts was more based on how wide the blast would be?

The wider his blasts are the less powerful they are suppose to be. All though he can control the intensity of his blasts. For example in the scan I showed you he was clearing a forest with a wide blast.

True. What would you weigh on the possibility of Batman moving out of the radius in general after seeing the first couple of blasts like that? Seeing how analytic The Dark Knight is, I'd say its a significant chance.

I agree batman will probably just avoid cyclops range after seeing the blasts the problem being though is he likely wont be conscious after the first wide blasts and he probably wont be able to dodge it.

I see. From what I've seen from Scott in character, hopefully he sticks to precise optic blasts for the first volley so that Bruce has time to clear out.

He probably will use slimmer blasts in most scenarios. I mainly brought up the wider blasts to say he can take a few wins that way and to show his optic blasts are pretty versatile.

Yes I agree with you on that all the way. I just don't see why Cyclops would just go all bloodlusted and remove his visor at the start of the battle to slaughter Batman, or even immediately use very intensely powered, wide optic blasts, when Cyclops consistently shows he uses more precise and more stun-power level blasts when first encountering a foe.

Avatar image for wandering_payne
Wandering_Payne

21

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 4

In this fight you have two brilliant strategists who have trained for combat during most of their lives. Yes Batman probably has an edge in the number of combat techniques he knows, but in the end it comes down to the fact Cyclops has power and isn't afraid to use it. While he is a good h2h fighter, Cyclops would probably keep this a fight at distance. If Batman pulls a quick fade into the shadows, Cyclops is probably going to just level all the cover in the area. Even though this is Scott pre-phoenix force, he isn't afraid to get dirty to take out an opponent. Bats is great, but I see the original X-Man taking him out.

Avatar image for ZZoMBiE13
ZZoMBiE13

1444

Forum Posts

9

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 1

Scott takes this one, literally, with his hands tied behind his back. He's a leader, a fighter, and he's super powered. And unlike all the DC characters who have built in weaknesses, there's nothing for Batman to exploit with Cyclops. Even if you give Bruce a week to prep, there's no way around Cyclops powers or his abilities to command the field of battle.

Of course we all know that Bruce is in fact a super hero with the greatest of powers; Deus Ex Machina. But even if he pulls out some Sticky Goo Bat Pellet that could clog up Cyke's eyes for a bit, I still don't think he'd have an easy go of it. The only way Bruce would beat Scott is if he killed him. And we all know that wouldn't happen.

I'm a huge Batman fan. And in recent years I've lost a lot of my affinity for the X universe. But Cyclops was always one of my favorites. I like him better than just about any other X-man (except for Ice-man). Cyclops wouldn't make my top 10 comic book heroes of all time list while Bats is planted firmly at #2 right behind Spidey. But I still think Cyclops could out maneuver the Dark Knight.

Avatar image for god_spawn
god_spawn

46824

Forum Posts

35524

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 43

User Lists: 10

#256 god_spawn  Moderator

@jashro44: Use the respect thread, Jash. *Cough*shameless plug* cough*

@lvenger: Btw, I can totally use this right now. EVUDENCE!!

No Caption Provided

Avatar image for cheesesticks
CheeseSticks

2867

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@yourneighborhoodcomicgeek: Cyclops is little below Batman in intelligence. Cyclops is smarter than Superman. Batman sneak up on Superman so he can beat Cyclops? Alright. Did Superman knew Batman was coming? Because if he came by surprise, then it's irrelevant since Cyke know Batman is coming.

As for the stealth part, you're saying Batman will break every light sources, don't you think Cyclops will see that? They begin at 30 feets away.

Also, Cyclops can cover a lot of space with is blast. You seem to underestimate Cyclops fighting ability. He's not just a standing machine shooting blasts.

Avatar image for jashro44
jashro44

57695

Forum Posts

253

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#258  Edited By jashro44

@yourneighborhoodcomicgeek: All though that may be true he also does use ricochet shots. Which can be used to entrap batman.

@god_spawn LOL thats basically been what I've been doing

Avatar image for deactivated-5e8a1f5fafc4e
deactivated-5e8a1f5fafc4e

26473

Forum Posts

2126

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 4

@lvenger: Btw, I can totally use this right now. EVUDENCE!!

No Caption Provided

*Dies a little inside*

Avatar image for yourneighborhoodcomicgeek
YourNeighborhoodComicGeek

21616

Forum Posts

23390

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 11

User Lists: 15

@yourneighborhoodcomicgeek: Cyclops is little below Batman in intelligence. Cyclops is smarter than Superman. Batman sneak up on Superman so he can beat Cyclops? Alright. Did Superman knew Batman was coming? Because if he came by surprise, then it's irrelevant since Cyke know Batman is coming.

Uhhh...no. Based on feats Batman is multiple times more intelligent than Cyclops. Please don't even argue with that. Cyclops is DEFINITELY not smarter than Superman. Superman's powers enable him to absorb data at an extremely fast rate and learn things faster than even Batman. He just doesn't focus on it. In fact I'd argue Superman is on-par with Batman in terms of general intelligence. Does Cyclops know when an enemy is regenerating its nervous system by using nanites? Because Batman and Superman did.

And no, Superman did not know Batman was coming. That is the whole part of the feat. Superman's enhanced senses due to his superpowers should have enabled him to hear Batman moving about. But no, Bruce was stealthy enough to even surpass or perhaps even trick Clark's senses. Just because Cyclops knows that Batman is coming, doesn't mean he knows when or how. Just like if I call you that I'm going to get you on a certain day, doesn't mean you know when, how I will look, the specific time, or how I will get you.

@god_spawn do you know anything about Scott's intelligence? Because I highly doubt it is on the level of Batman and Superman.

As for the stealth part, you're saying Batman will break every light sources, don't you think Cyclops will see that? They begin at 30 feets away.

Also, Cyclops can cover a lot of space with is blast. You seem to underestimate Cyclops fighting ability. He's not just a standing machine shooting blasts.

30 feet away is more than you think. Batarangs will be hard to see, and even if he does see them, it doesn't matter because Batman can run while he throws batarangs you know. By the time he throws them and Cyclops thinks he knows where they came from, Bruce would have been at an entirely different location by then. And I am not underestimating Cyclop's fighting ability, it's just not nearly enough to hang around with the likes of Batman

Avatar image for yourneighborhoodcomicgeek
YourNeighborhoodComicGeek

21616

Forum Posts

23390

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 11

User Lists: 15

@jashro44 said:

@yourneighborhoodcomicgeek: All though that may be true he also does use ricochet shots. Which can be used to entrap batman.

@god_spawn LOL thats basically been what I've been doing

I think Batman has dodged laser systems before, which should be similar enough. They probably aren't as wide, but Batman would probably have Cyclops distracted with one of his gadgets, so it won't be as accurate.

Avatar image for crazyscarecrow
CrazyScarecrow

2312

Forum Posts

50197

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 19

User Lists: 27

Batman can do it because he is Batman :P

Avatar image for jashro44
jashro44

57695

Forum Posts

253

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@yourneighborhoodcomicgeek: Perhaps. All though my thinking is he uses his spacial awareness to limit batmans dodging space and then fires a second blast at batman.

Basically do something like this to surround Bruce with optic blasts and then quickly fire a direct one at Bruce. It'll be harder for Bruce to dodge when he is surrounded by optic blasts.
Basically do something like this to surround Bruce with optic blasts and then quickly fire a direct one at Bruce. It'll be harder for Bruce to dodge when he is surrounded by optic blasts.

Avatar image for cheesesticks
CheeseSticks

2867

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#264  Edited By CheeseSticks
@yourneighborhoodcomicgeek said:

Uhhh...no. Based on feats Batman is multiple times more intelligent than Cyclops. Please don't even argue with that. Cyclops is DEFINITELY not smarter than Superman. Superman's powers enable him to absorb data at an extremely fast rate and learn things faster than even Batman. He just doesn't focus on it. In fact I'd argue Superman is on-par with Batman in terms of general intelligence. Does Cyclops know when an enemy is regenerating its nervous system by using nanites? Because Batman and Superman did.

And no, Superman did not know Batman was coming. That is the whole part of the feat. Superman's enhanced senses due to his superpowers should have enabled him to hear Batman moving about. But no, Bruce was stealthy enough to even surpass or perhaps even trick Clark's senses. Just because Cyclops knows that Batman is coming, doesn't mean he knows when or how. Just like if I call you that I'm going to get you on a certain day, doesn't mean you know when, how I will look, the specific time, or how I will get you.

30 feet away is more than you think. Batarangs will be hard to see, and even if he does see them, it doesn't matter because Batman can run while he throws batarangs you know. By the time he throws them and Cyclops thinks he knows where they came from, Bruce would have been at an entirely different location by then. And I am not underestimating Cyclop's fighting ability, it's just not nearly enough to hang around with the likes of Batman

Cyclops isn't smarter than Batman but in tactical combat, he is close. Superman knew Cyborg was doing this because he has X-Ray vision.. Superman even say it in your scan... So that's not a showing of Supes intelligence.

And how can Cyclops know that Cyborg can do that since he isn't from DC?

Superman did not know that Bats was coming? Then it's irrelevant.

Cyclops doesn't know how Batman will come at him but he know he's there. It's a fight goddamnit not a date. Cyclops won't wait for Batman to come at him.

Knowing Cyclops blast move at lightspeed, you can't possibly think that Batman would be gone. Batman doesn't run at light speed. The moment he see a light being broke he could cover 20 meters around the broken light and Batman would not be able to go away since it's LIGHTSPEED blast.

Avatar image for god_spawn
god_spawn

46824

Forum Posts

35524

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 43

User Lists: 10

#265 god_spawn  Moderator

@yourneighborhoodcomicgeek: Book smart wise or his tactical ability? Because he is a FAR better tactican than he is as a physicist, geneticist, biologist, etc. He's like Captain America. Cap is smarter than average, but he is no Tony Stark or Bruce. I do think Cyclops does have a decent understand of anatomy at best to know where to hit. He was able to one shot Blade with a precise shot to the vertebrae and said "a shot to the vertebrae will get someone angry." I know most people know what that is, but you don't hear them say it often. It's just kind of speculation on my part, though. Cyclops' genius is in his ability to plan and execute strategy, not in a lab like Bruce, though Bruce is a fantastic tactician himself and I'd say is probably on par with Cyclops, if not possibly better due to the high end plans he has in his back pocket. I can give some Cyclops tactical feats if you wish?

Avatar image for patrat18
patrat18

11753

Forum Posts

1

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 4

@vandinejd_1991: Of course not how could he, Darkseid's omega beans can move at speeds Darkseid wishes they are much faster than cyclops beams.

Avatar image for jmarshmallow
Jmarshmallow

14023

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Batman threads. Never really end up going well. People either love to love him, or love to hate him because of the people who love to love him. However, this one seems to be doing alright!

I've got lots of work, so I'm going to try to keep this short.

Batman outclasses Cyclops in every aspect besides raw destructive power, and arguably leadership. If this was no morals, then Cyke would just blast him and it'd be over.

But Batman could, with ease actually, use the cover to close the gap between him and Cyke, and once he's close that's when it truly becomes too close to call.

Once Bats gets close, Cyke could either just panic and blast him right there, or attempt to fight him. Obviously, the first option would be an easy win for Cyke, while the second option would be an easy win for Bats.

Truthfully, I just don't know enough about Cyke's fighting style to judge which decision he'd make.

Too close to call is probably the best option, but because of Batman's versatility and superior stats, I'd give it to him.

Jmarshmallow

Avatar image for spartan626
spartan626

12

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Cyclops was beaten by a de-powered Storm....that is all you need to know to realize Batman would have no trouble beating him. Also, Batman's gear would be a benefit while at a range, and Batman would definitely overpower him easily in close range

Avatar image for tchalla3000
tchalla3000

119

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

I originally voted to close to call, but after going over my comics, I have to say Batman loses 6/10 times. A very close fight, but I believe Cyclops takes it. It comes down to the optic blasts.

They're both tactical geniuses, so that is too close to call. Cyclops has been in charge of the X-Men since he was a teen, and X-Factor for some time. Batman lead various variations of the Justice League. They both fight intellectually, so the argument of Batman being smarter doesn't stand that well since tactic smart and quantum physics smart are two different things (Beast is smarter than Cyclops, but can he lead a team to victory? Not the same).

Yes, Batman is one of, if not the, best fighters in DC, but Cykes is no joke either. He held his own against Wolverine, and Captain America. As @opticblast has shown, Cyclops can fight "blind," so anyone saying "all Batman needs to do is remove his visor," really didn't read up on Cyclops; and if you were refering to what Storm did, it was already stated that Madelyn Pryor was manipulating him in that fight (and before that Cyclops was detracted by his new born. I can assume that won't be a factor in this fight).

Cyclops also has spacial awarness, and as shown in various fights, has a ricochete shot. Since this is a random encounter, Batman would not know this, and would more than likely get hit. The blast are concussive, so I believe a blast that can knock out Wolverine, knock the skin off the Hulk (see WWH), and punch a hole in a mountain, can tackle Batman.

Ofcourse , Batman has his gadgets, various gas pellets, electric shocks, etc., which can sway the fight, but that could only account for a handful of victories. Again, very close fight, but I believe Cyclops wins by a hair.

Avatar image for yourneighborhoodcomicgeek
YourNeighborhoodComicGeek

21616

Forum Posts

23390

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 11

User Lists: 15

@jashro44 said:

@yourneighborhoodcomicgeek: Perhaps. All though my thinking is he uses his spacial awareness to limit batmans dodging space and then fires a second blast at batman.

Basically do something like this to surround Bruce with optic blasts and then quickly fire a direct one at Bruce. It'll be harder for Bruce to dodge when he is surrounded by optic blasts.
Basically do something like this to surround Bruce with optic blasts and then quickly fire a direct one at Bruce. It'll be harder for Bruce to dodge when he is surrounded by optic blasts.

Would this work in a city? I mean, I could see the optic blast hitting the first building and just flat-out destroying it, not bouncing off it.

@yourneighborhoodcomicgeek said:

Uhhh...no. Based on feats Batman is multiple times more intelligent than Cyclops. Please don't even argue with that. Cyclops is DEFINITELY not smarter than Superman. Superman's powers enable him to absorb data at an extremely fast rate and learn things faster than even Batman. He just doesn't focus on it. In fact I'd argue Superman is on-par with Batman in terms of general intelligence. Does Cyclops know when an enemy is regenerating its nervous system by using nanites? Because Batman and Superman did.

And no, Superman did not know Batman was coming. That is the whole part of the feat. Superman's enhanced senses due to his superpowers should have enabled him to hear Batman moving about. But no, Bruce was stealthy enough to even surpass or perhaps even trick Clark's senses. Just because Cyclops knows that Batman is coming, doesn't mean he knows when or how. Just like if I call you that I'm going to get you on a certain day, doesn't mean you know when, how I will look, the specific time, or how I will get you.

30 feet away is more than you think. Batarangs will be hard to see, and even if he does see them, it doesn't matter because Batman can run while he throws batarangs you know. By the time he throws them and Cyclops thinks he knows where they came from, Bruce would have been at an entirely different location by then. And I am not underestimating Cyclop's fighting ability, it's just not nearly enough to hang around with the likes of Batman

Cyclops isn't smarter than Batman but in tactical combat, he is close. Superman knew Cyborg was doing this because he has X-Ray vision.. Superman even say it in your scan... So that's not a showing of Supes intelligence.

And how can Cyclops know that Cyborg can do that since he isn't from DC?

Superman did not know that Bats was coming? Then it's irrelevant.

Cyclops doesn't know how Batman will come at him but he know he's there. It's a fight goddamnit not a date. Cyclops won't wait for Batman to come at him.

Knowing Cyclops blast move at lightspeed, you can't possibly think that Batman would be gone. Batman doesn't run at light speed. The moment he see a light being broke he could cover 20 meters around the broken light and Batman would not be able to go away since it's LIGHTSPEED blast.

In tactical combat I could agree with you, they are close. For Superman, did you even read the post? I said Superman's powers enable him to absorb data differently/more efficiently and at a faster rate than we can, so that helps him when it comes to general intelligence. That is how Clark knows that the nanites are rebuilding Amazo's nervous system.

And what about Cyborg? That is besides the point. How does Superman not knowing Batman would come make the feat irrelevant? Superman has sensed enemies before even if he doesn't know they are coming because of his super hearing, x-ray vision, and smell. The fact that Batman managed to sneak on him despite that makes this a very valid feat. So what you're saying is that just because Spider-Man knows his opponents are coming via Spidey-Sense, it makes their feat irrelevant? No. It's perfectly relevant.

Yes it is a fight. That is how Batman will utilize this fight's scenario and surroundings to get the drop on Cyclops. It's not that hard of a concept to wrap your head around. Cyclops doesn't have to wait for Batman to come. Heck, he could risk the "minimal risk of close quarter combat", move in, and try and zap Bruce in close-range or engage in CQC. The fact is, if he tries to do that, Batman would have already been somewhere else. He's too fast.

Cyclop's blasts move at lightspeed. Cool. But after Batman has dodged the first volley and finds cover, Cyclops will try and relocate Batman before using his optic blasts. By the time he tries to locate Batman again, The Dark Knight would have been in an entirely different location by then.

@yourneighborhoodcomicgeek: Book smart wise or his tactical ability? Because he is a FAR better tactican than he is as a physicist, geneticist, biologist, etc. He's like Captain America. Cap is smarter than average, but he is no Tony Stark or Bruce. I do think Cyclops does have a decent understand of anatomy at best to know where to hit. He was able to one shot Blade with a precise shot to the vertebrae and said "a shot to the vertebrae will get someone angry." I know most people know what that is, but you don't hear them say it often. It's just kind of speculation on my part, though. Cyclops' genius is in his ability to plan and execute strategy, not in a lab like Bruce, though Bruce is a fantastic tactician himself and I'd say is probably on par with Cyclops, if not possibly better due to the high end plans he has in his back pocket. I can give some Cyclops tactical feats if you wish?

I'm already aware of Cyclop's tactical feats. It's impressive. In the same ballpark as Captain America and Batman. However, I was talking about book smart wise. Thanks for clearing that up though.

Avatar image for pharoh_atem
Pharoh_Atem

45284

Forum Posts

10114

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 13

Good god. This one of best debated threads I have seen in a long time O_O

*goes to get popcorn*

Avatar image for yourneighborhoodcomicgeek
YourNeighborhoodComicGeek

21616

Forum Posts

23390

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 11

User Lists: 15

Good god. This one of best debated threads I have seen in a long time O_O

*goes to get popcorn*

YEAH AND YOU BETTER AGREE WITH ME, OR ELSE I'LL DEBATE THAT THIS IS THE MOST DEBATED THREADS YOU'VE SEEN.

Just kidding.

But I will eat your popcorn.

Avatar image for mazahs117
MAZAHS117

20077

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#273  Edited By MAZAHS117

@dccomicsrule2011: Right! I saw it this morning with like 4 replys.

Now it's on page 6!!!

Avatar image for wolverine008
Wolverine008

51027

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 3

This is one damn good debate.

Avatar image for lunoxis
lunoxis

2

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#275  Edited By lunoxis

Batman has dodged Darkseid's omega beams, which I figure would be a lot harder to dodge than Cyclops' optic blast

Avatar image for xxxddd
xxxddd

3861

Forum Posts

29703

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 14

@k4tzm4n: Batman uses his gadgets to distract Scott long enough to K.O. Batman is not killing Scott and Scott isn't obliterating half of downtown for the same reason-the two have NEVER done so and therefore aren't doing so in a morals ON encounter.

Avatar image for cheesesticks
CheeseSticks

2867

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#277  Edited By CheeseSticks

@yourneighborhoodcomicgeek said:

Would this work in a city? I mean, I could see the optic blast hitting the first building and just flat-out destroying it, not bouncing off it.

In tactical combat I could agree with you, they are close. For Superman, did you even read the post? I said Superman's powers enable him to absorb data differently/more efficiently and at a faster rate than we can, so that helps him when it comes to general intelligence. That is how Clark knows that the nanites are rebuilding Amazo's nervous system.

And what about Cyborg? That is besides the point. How does Superman not knowing Batman would come make the feat irrelevant? Superman has sensed enemies before even if he doesn't know they are coming because of his super hearing, x-ray vision, and smell. The fact that Batman managed to sneak on him despite that makes this a very valid feat. So what you're saying is that just because Spider-Man knows his opponents are coming via Spidey-Sense, it makes their feat irrelevant? No. It's perfectly relevant.

Yes it is a fight. That is how Batman will utilize this fight's scenario and surroundings to get the drop on Cyclops. It's not that hard of a concept to wrap your head around. Cyclops doesn't have to wait for Batman to come. Heck, he could risk the "minimal risk of close quarter combat", move in, and try and zap Bruce in close-range or engage in CQC. The fact is, if he tries to do that, Batman would have already been somewhere else. He's too fast.

Cyclop's blasts move at lightspeed. Cool. But after Batman has dodged the first volley and finds cover, Cyclops will try and relocate Batman before using his optic blasts. By the time he tries to locate Batman again, The Dark Knight would have been in an entirely different location by then.

- Cyclops can control the intensity of his blast so yeah, if he want his beam to bounce it will bounce.

- For Superman part, you said yourslef that he isn't using his full potential. Potential isn't a feat.

- Spider sense is about danger not super hearing or smell. Superman was not trying to find Batman since he came by surprise. If Superman was aware that Batman was coming he would have know it. Cyclops is in a battle, so he will put 100% of his brain to search Batman. This is why it's irrelevant, you cannot compare normal thinking with combat thinking.

- It would be stupid for Cyclops to try close combat with Batman since Bruce is superior. Cyke will always try to be away from Batman, he's not stupid.

- The last point is the one who give Cyclops the fight. Cyclops won't shoot volley of blast. He will shoot one blast covering a large surface since he will see that Batman is trying stealth. He will know that's it's the best way to take Bats down. His blast can cover at least 100 meters in depth, length and width. Batman cannot evade that. Or Batman has Flash power for this fight?

Well this is a hell of a debate! I'm happy everyone has been calm.

Avatar image for yourneighborhoodcomicgeek
YourNeighborhoodComicGeek

21616

Forum Posts

23390

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 11

User Lists: 15

@cheesesticks said:

@yourneighborhoodcomicgeek said:

Would this work in a city? I mean, I could see the optic blast hitting the first building and just flat-out destroying it, not bouncing off it.

In tactical combat I could agree with you, they are close. For Superman, did you even read the post? I said Superman's powers enable him to absorb data differently/more efficiently and at a faster rate than we can, so that helps him when it comes to general intelligence. That is how Clark knows that the nanites are rebuilding Amazo's nervous system.

And what about Cyborg? That is besides the point. How does Superman not knowing Batman would come make the feat irrelevant? Superman has sensed enemies before even if he doesn't know they are coming because of his super hearing, x-ray vision, and smell. The fact that Batman managed to sneak on him despite that makes this a very valid feat. So what you're saying is that just because Spider-Man knows his opponents are coming via Spidey-Sense, it makes their feat irrelevant? No. It's perfectly relevant.

Yes it is a fight. That is how Batman will utilize this fight's scenario and surroundings to get the drop on Cyclops. It's not that hard of a concept to wrap your head around. Cyclops doesn't have to wait for Batman to come. Heck, he could risk the "minimal risk of close quarter combat", move in, and try and zap Bruce in close-range or engage in CQC. The fact is, if he tries to do that, Batman would have already been somewhere else. He's too fast.

Cyclop's blasts move at lightspeed. Cool. But after Batman has dodged the first volley and finds cover, Cyclops will try and relocate Batman before using his optic blasts. By the time he tries to locate Batman again, The Dark Knight would have been in an entirely different location by then.

- Cyclops can control the intensity of his blast so yeah, if he want his beam to bounce it will bounce.

- For Superman part, you said yourslef that he isn't using his full potential. Potential isn't a feat.

- Spider sense is about danger not super hearing or smell. Superman was not trying to find Batman since he came by surprise. If Superman was aware that Batman was coming he would have know it. Cyclops is in a battle, so he will put 100% of his brain to search Batman. This is why it's irrelevant, you cannot compare normal thinking with combat thinking.

- It would be stupid for Cyclops to try close combat with Batman since Bruce is superior. Cyke will always try to be away from Batman, he's not stupid.

- The last point is the one who give Cyclops the fight. Cyclops won,t shoot volley of blast. He will shoot one blast covering a large surface since he will see that Batman is trying stealth. His blast can cover at least a mile in depth, length and width. Batman cannot evade that. Or Batman has Flash power for this fight?

Well this is a hell of a debate! I'm happy everyone has been calm.

Interesting, but I still think Batman is agile enough to dodge them.

So what if Superman isn't at his full potential? My point is that he managed to sneak up on someone that has more impressive senses than Cyclops.

Sensing danger is the same concept. Just because Superman wasn't trying to find Batman doesn't mean he wouldn't know he was coming. He would have heard Batman coming in and remarked "I heard your footsteps on the walls before you came in", or something similar along those lines, but he didn't, because he didn't know. 100% of Cyclop's brain is like 10% of Superman's brain. You're acting like Superman can't multi-task. He can do many things at once and still sense and identify foreign sounds such as footsteps.

You are contradicting yourself. First of all, I said IF Cyclops decides to go in. Also how would Scott know that Batman is the superior hand-to-hand combatant if he doesn't know who Batman is? You said something similar to this a post or two before, so that is yet another contradiction. I also have already signified that Cyclops isn't dumb and will try and have as much distance as possible. I did write a scenario on what I think would happen on page 2.

No scan version of my argument :

This is how I see it going down.

Cyclops sees Batman, and immediately unleashes a couple of his optic blasts. Batman easily dodges them like he has dodged Malik's light constructs in the past, and finds cover. Batman analyzes his foes' powers, which is concussive energy blasts. Batman quickly comes up with a strategy and notes the appropriate utilities he needs to use to take down his opponent (Batarangs to distract, sonic batarangs to disorientate, gas pellets to KO, bolas to immobilize, etc.). Meanwhile, Scott uses his gifted optic blasts banking skills to try and get a ricochet shot on The Dark Knight, while slowly moving back to gain distance and minimize the danger of having to approach his enemy in close quarters combat. Cyclops also uses his leader skills to try and find a way to defeat his opponent non-lethally and as quickly as possible. Batman, naturally with his reaction speeds, evades the banked optic blasts and moves from cover to cover, moving throughout the city and using the night as his ally. Batman takes down any light sources so that Scott can't get a very good look at him, and whips out his utilities he plans to take down Cyclops with. Scott is generally unfazed by the darkness via his training in the Danger Room, but he is at a disadvantage, since Bruce has night-vision and other useful tools in his suit and utility belt. Scott blasts some more optic blasts to try and take down his foe, as well as a light source. Bruce easily dodges them and throws out a couple gas pellets to distract and hopefully knock out Cyke. Cyclops vision is impaired temporarily and is covering his mouth to not breath it in. Batman throws a handful of batarangs but Cyclop's vision recovers just in time to blast them effortlessly, but Scott is still coughing and under the effects of the gas pellets, and is moving farther away. Batman has on a rebreather and quickly closes the gap, as Cyclops moving away from the gas pellets was his plan all along! There are freeze grenades all over the area, so if Scott takes another step he will be frozen. Cyclops decides to go to his last resort and pulls his visor off to unleash a full blast, but Bruce closes the gap before Scott can, and knocks the X-Men leader out.

WINNER : Batman

REASONS : While Cyclops is impressive, Batman is a superior hand-to-hand combatant, tactician, and more intelligent. Not only does a dark city an advantage to Batman's stealth, but Cyclops optic blasts would enable Batman to know his location at all times, leaving Scott with no options for stealth. Batman is also simply more versatile and has dealt with more powerful, intelligent, and deadly enemies before, with similar powers like energy blasts. Cyclops holds his own with his own leader skills, intense training, powerful optic blasts, and looser morales, but it isn't enough.

Cyclops, with morals on, pretty much WILL use a volley of blasts when he first encounters Batman. He won't use a wide blast right out of the blue, especially if he thinks it might severely injure his opponent. He won't do that right away. Even @jashro44 said that Cyclops is highly likely to just use "slimmer blasts for the beginning of the fight". This gives Bruce plenty of time to evacuate himself from the area to somewhere safer, which also directly ties in with "Batman's stealth and sneaking up on Cyclops to KO him" factor.

Avatar image for cheesesticks
CheeseSticks

2867

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#279  Edited By CheeseSticks

@yourneighborhoodcomicgeek said:

Interesting, but I still think Batman is agile enough to dodge them.

So what if Superman isn't at his full potential? My point is that he managed to sneak up on someone that has more impressive senses than Cyclops.

Sensing danger is the same concept. Just because Superman wasn't trying to find Batman doesn't mean he wouldn't know he was coming. He would have heard Batman coming in and remarked "I heard your footsteps on the walls before you came in", or something similar along those lines, but he didn't, because he didn't know. 100% of Cyclop's brain is like 10% of Superman's brain. You're acting like Superman can't multi-task. He can do many things at once and still sense and identify foreign sounds such as footsteps.

You are contradicting yourself. First of all, I said IF Cyclops decides to go in. Also how would Scott know that Batman is the superior hand-to-hand combatant if he doesn't know who Batman is? You said something similar to this a post or two before, so that is yet another contradiction. I also have already signified that Cyclops isn't dumb and will try and have as much distance as possible. I did write a scenario on what I think would happen on page 2.

Cyclops, with morals on, pretty much WILL use a volley of blasts when he first encounters Batman. He won't use a wide blast right out of the blue, especially if he thinks it might severely injure his opponent. He won't do that right away. Even @jashro44 said that Cyclops is highly likely to just use "slimmer blasts for the beginning of the fight". This gives Bruce plenty of time to evacuate himself from the area to somewhere safer, which also directly ties in with "Batman's stealth and sneaking up on Cyclops to KO him" factor.

- How can Batman dodge something coming at lighspeed behind him while Cyclops is fighting him?

- I agree with everything you said on Superman, but you miss my point. Superman can do many things at the same time, but in the scan he is changing his shirt, he isn't concentrating on his senses. Cyclops is in a fight, Superman was not. Superman isn't expecting someone to sneak to him, while Cyclops, in a fight, know that someone is coming. Therefore, he can concentrate on finding him. The moment he see a movement, what's stopping him from blasting there? It's a unpopulated city, so he'll know it's Bruce.

- Cyclops won't know that, but he knows that at a distance he would have a better chance of beating his opponent because it's his best way to fight.

- You said how can Cyclops know that Batman is a superior H2H fighter. Well, how does Batman know that Cyclops can shoot blast at the beginning? Everyone's defending Batman by saying he will take cover right at the beginning. Why would he do that since he doesn't know Cyclops ability?

- I agree, Cyke won't use a wide blast at the start. BUT, if he see that Batman is hiding, he will use it since it's his only way to tag Bruce. By seeing Bruce hiding, he will also know that distance is his best friend since Bats isn't coming at him at the start. Cyclops is certainly a better tactician than me, so he would think of it.

Since Cyclops can see red in the dark, he will perceive movement. Also, it's an unpopulated city so he will use wide blast in the direction he see the movement.

Cyclops can also make a 360 with his laser when he see that Batman is hiding to push every cover away so that Bruce would have to be open to get to Cyke.

Avatar image for ravisher
ravisher

732

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

too close

Avatar image for supreme_maj
Supreme_Maj

340

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#281  Edited By Supreme_Maj

Batman vs Cyclops I was looking for it because this time we have two good tactician against each other Batman has a very good of weapons at his disposal for fight but the problem is he going to guess he needs it right a way or he needs cover when the fight start? No I am not sure and that will be the big mistake for Bruce this time. We all forget that this is a random encounter so batman doesn't know the power of cyclops he might even think is one of the mutant from "the batman: return of the dark knight" He might come from the shadow to try to scare Scott "Swear to meeeeeeee" like he likes to do and always stating Batman is the best there is in h2h doesn't make him not getting hurt from Joker who basically is not a martial artist of Scott level. People are saying Storm beat Cyclop in the 80ties but they forget to precise why scott lose to her : Wolverine said he lost because he was not much into it like Ororo it was more of an obligation to stand for the leadership his heart was not in the fight that is why he lost to her.But in a normal situation she should have never been able to beat him beside storm too is not a low level martial artist she held her own against a variety of dangerous opponents while she was powerless. Some of us are talking about slim moral and behavior when fighting but forgetting also bruce methods He will not look for cover strait he will first come close to the ennemy and talk or even trying to scare him off and that will be a big mistake from him .Scott h2h skills is added by his optic blast it to say h2h blast skills actually and while fighting he always takes advantages of his surrounding to use his blast and that is why he is very dangerous he has always a backup plan while fighting someone this time bruce is not fighting Remy Lebeau but a very good tactician. we should not underestimate the power of the blast he can have different result with it and he knows the level which can ko someone. Bruce will never guess Scott has an optic blast and that can be his mistake so for me Scott takes it 7/10 sorry Bruce you are the man but this time you are going to lose because you don't know who you are dealing with(No prep).

Avatar image for yourneighborhoodcomicgeek
YourNeighborhoodComicGeek

21616

Forum Posts

23390

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 11

User Lists: 15

@cheesesticks said:

@yourneighborhoodcomicgeek said:

Interesting, but I still think Batman is agile enough to dodge them.

So what if Superman isn't at his full potential? My point is that he managed to sneak up on someone that has more impressive senses than Cyclops.

Sensing danger is the same concept. Just because Superman wasn't trying to find Batman doesn't mean he wouldn't know he was coming. He would have heard Batman coming in and remarked "I heard your footsteps on the walls before you came in", or something similar along those lines, but he didn't, because he didn't know. 100% of Cyclop's brain is like 10% of Superman's brain. You're acting like Superman can't multi-task. He can do many things at once and still sense and identify foreign sounds such as footsteps.

You are contradicting yourself. First of all, I said IF Cyclops decides to go in. Also how would Scott know that Batman is the superior hand-to-hand combatant if he doesn't know who Batman is? You said something similar to this a post or two before, so that is yet another contradiction. I also have already signified that Cyclops isn't dumb and will try and have as much distance as possible. I did write a scenario on what I think would happen on page 2.

Cyclops, with morals on, pretty much WILL use a volley of blasts when he first encounters Batman. He won't use a wide blast right out of the blue, especially if he thinks it might severely injure his opponent. He won't do that right away. Even @jashro44 said that Cyclops is highly likely to just use "slimmer blasts for the beginning of the fight". This gives Bruce plenty of time to evacuate himself from the area to somewhere safer, which also directly ties in with "Batman's stealth and sneaking up on Cyclops to KO him" factor.

- How can Batman dodge something coming at lighspeed behind him while Cyclops is fighting him?

- I agree with everything you said on Superman, but you miss my point. Superman can do many things at the same time, but in the scan he is changing his shirt, he isn't concentrating on his senses. Cyclops is in a fight, Superman was not. Superman isn't expecting someone to sneak to him, while Cyclops, in a fight, know that someone is coming. Therefore, he can concentrate on finding him. The moment he see a movement, what's stopping him from blasting there? It's a unpopulated city, so he'll know it's Bruce.

- Cyclops won't know that, but he knows that at a distance he would have a better chance of beating his opponent because it's his best way to fight.

- You said how can Cyclops know that Batman is a superior H2H fighter. Well, how does Batman know that Cyclops can shoot blast at the beginning? Everyone's defending Batman by saying he will take cover right at the beginning. Why would he do that since he doesn't know Cyclops ability?

- I agree, Cyke won't a wide blast at the start. BUT, if he see that Batman is hiding, he will use it since it's his only way to tag Bruce. By seeing Bruce hiding, he will also know that distance is his best friend since Bats isn't coming at him at the start. Cyclops is certainly a better tactician than me, so he would think of it.

Since Cyclops can see red in the dark, he will perceive movement. Also, it's an unpopulated city so he will use wide blast in the direction he see the movement.

Cyclops can also make a 360 with his laser when he see that Batman is hiding to push every cover away so that Bruce would have to be open to get to Cyke.

What are you talking about? How would it come behind him? Cyclops wouldn't know where Batman is after he ducks into cover. Cyclops will be at a distance, so he can't fight Batman, only try and locate Bruce and shoot a wide or precise blast (in this scenario, in the beginning, precise). If he goes with any other option it will be closing distance, and Batman will surely win there.

So...what you're saying is that Superman can't hear Batman coming because he's changing his shirt? My friend, we are using comic book logic, and by comic book logic Superman can sense things no matter what he's doing. He's suppose to be, to humans, omnipotent-like and omniscient-like. For example, I can hear someone walking into my room even if I am changing or doing multiple things at once. Cyclops will concentrate on finding Batman, but his concentration is like 10% of Superman's brain, because Superman's Kryptonian origin allows him to think at a much faster rate.

Exactly, that was what I was saying. I was merely reflecting on what you said and analyzing other routes Cyclops would attempt to take for a victory. Unfortunately, the only reasonable way for Cyclops to win is staying his distance, and that also has its own very negative repercussions, which is a positive advantage for Batman.

Batman may or may not know Cyclops will shoot at the very beginning (although I personally believe he can find hints at it with Cyclop's VERY evident visor), but he could still dodge it. Plus Batman almost never just fights an opponent in the open like that. He stealthily takes them down, or at least makes a diversion or disorientation of some kind. Heck, Batman usually uses smoke grenades right off the bat (hehe, bat), so that would interfere with Scott's marksmanship. Regarding to Scott using a wide blast right after Batman leaps into cover, that is highly questionable. First of all, Cyclops may not do that due to his morals/attitude. Either he will just spam his precise beams to diminish Batman's cover (in which Bruce would evade with moderate difficulty), or use a wide beam that would only be intense enough to blast a couple of the surrounding items, which still isn't enough to expose The Bat.

And how will Cyclops perceive movement if he isn't going to know where Batman is? Batman could be way outside of Scott's field of vision. That is what Bruce does to stealth take-down his opponents.

360 degrees with his laser has many different disadvantages. The most obvious one for me is that it won't even take down all the buildings. It would maybe take down the first layer of buildings and cars (not even all of it to be honest). Second of all, because of that, once Scott turns his head to face a different direction/degrees, Batman could be in the opposite direction/degrees, and that would directly expose himself to countless different take-downs from Batman and his countless strategies and tactics he conceived.

Avatar image for darkbeam
darkbeam

2873

Forum Posts

6

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@theocitylegend: Fine then if you could tell me how Batman can dodge a wide optic beam then I'll admit defeat and that Batman wins

Avatar image for thevagrantking
thevagrantking

15

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#284  Edited By thevagrantking

This is my first time posting, but I just had to get in on this.

Cyclops won't match Bats in sheer intelligence, but he can surely match Batman in battlefield tactics. Cyclops has uncanny accuracy with his optic blasts, and can hit anything he can see, which Batman is going to realize within the first 5 seconds. Similarly, seeing someone who's dressed in a black suit and cape, Cyclops will immediately prepare for anti-stealth tactics. Smoke bombs are going to come out, which is hardly a scenario that Cyclops would not have prepared for. If he can't see Batman, and has the intent of defeating him, he's going to opt for wide angle, non-lethal blasts. He's going to position himself in an area of the battlefield where ambushes and sniper spots are eliminated. Batman's biggest flaw is that he assumes that he is going to be tactically superior opponents. The number one thing that's going to surprise him is Cyclops actually having as many contingency plans as Batman does.

Hand to hand, Batman has the advantage, but Cyclops has the wildcard of using his optic blasts in close combat scenarios. Close combat, if Cyclops gets an opportunity to counterstrike, he will hit Batman. It's a sucker punch that you can't block, that he can ricochet off a wall and hit someone who's behind him and trying to avoid incoming fire, or hit with just making eye contact.

Furthermore, the 'De-powered Storm Fight' is at a time where Cyclops was out of the game for years, and rusty. He admits to himself immediately after that his head wasn't in the game, and that Storm was the better fighter at the time. This in no way represents a modern, post-'Messiah Complex' Cyclops, where his tactical feats took a massive uptick and was at the best of his game.

This is a fight that ends when Cyclops lands two hits (The test volley, and the measured finisher), or Batman incaps preemptively. I see Cyclops' comparable tactical skill getting him those two shots 6.5 out of 10 times.

Avatar image for cheesesticks
CheeseSticks

2867

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#285  Edited By CheeseSticks

@yourneighborhoodcomicgeek said:

What are you talking about? How would it come behind him? Cyclops wouldn't know where Batman is after he ducks into cover. Cyclops will be at a distance, so he can't fight Batman, only try and locate Bruce and shoot a wide or precise blast (in this scenario, in the beginning, precise). If he goes with any other option it will be closing distance, and Batman will surely win there.

So...what you're saying is that Superman can't hear Batman coming because he's changing his shirt? My friend, we are using comic book logic, and by comic book logic Superman can sense things no matter what he's doing. He's suppose to be, to humans, omnipotent-like and omniscient-like. For example, I can hear someone walking into my room even if I am changing or doing multiple things at once. Cyclops will concentrate on finding Batman, but his concentration is like 10% of Superman's brain, because Superman's Kryptonian origin allows him to think at a much faster rate.

Exactly, that was what I was saying. I was merely reflecting on what you said and analyzing other routes Cyclops would attempt to take for a victory. Unfortunately, the only reasonable way for Cyclops to win is staying his distance, and that also has its own very negative repercussions, which is a positive advantage for Batman.

Batman may or may not know Cyclops will shoot at the very beginning (although I personally believe he can find hints at it with Cyclop's VERY evident visor), but he could still dodge it. Plus Batman almost never just fights an opponent in the open like that. He stealthily takes them down, or at least makes a diversion or disorientation of some kind. Heck, Batman usually uses smoke grenades right off the bat (hehe, bat), so that would interfere with Scott's marksmanship. Regarding to Scott using a wide blast right after Batman leaps into cover, that is highly questionable. First of all, Cyclops may not do that due to his morals/attitude. Either he will just spam his precise beams to diminish Batman's cover (in which Bruce would evade with moderate difficulty), or use a wide beam that would only be intense enough to blast a couple of the surrounding items, which still isn't enough to expose The Bat.

And how will Cyclops perceive movement if he isn't going to know where Batman is? Batman could be way outside of Scott's field of vision. That is what Bruce does to stealth take-down his opponents.

360 degrees with his laser has many different disadvantages. The most obvious one for me is that it won't even take down all the buildings. It would maybe take down the first layer of buildings and cars (not even all of it to be honest). Second of all, because of that, once Scott turns his head to face a different direction/degrees, Batman could be in the opposite direction/degrees, and that would directly expose himself to countless different take-downs from Batman and his countless strategies and tactics he conceived.

- The first part is another scenario. Someone was saying that Cyke could make his beam bounce to get Batman. So if Cyke is fighting H2H he could make his laser bounce to get Bats from behind.

- I won't argue on the Superman think after this post since it's irrelevant from this fight. Superman was not expecting danger. Cyke know danger is there, so he's concentration will be at max. You can add adrenaline to this. Cyke won't be able to find Batman, but he will perceive movement. If this was a populated city, i'd agree with you, but this is unpopulated. So the moment he see movement, it's Batman. If Superman was expecting danger, he would have found Batman miles away.

- You're speaking like Batman is a god. If Batman try to see what's on Cyclops face it will be too late since his blast move at lightspeed. His only way to evade Cyke blast is to take cover right at the start. If he use smoke, then Cyke will know where Batman is and it's game over since Cyke can cover 180 degrees in one blast.

- Like i said, Cyke won't use wide beam at the start, but if he see Batman under cover, he will use it since small blast would do nothing. After Cyke shoot 3-4 blast and he sees that it's doing nothing, he will use large beam to blow every cover in Batman way. Remember that they are starting 30 feets away and Cyke can cover 180 degrees in one blast. Batman cannot evade that, unless he teleport. His blast as cut moutains, so yes, his beam can blow every cover in front of him(180 degrees).

- And how will Cyclops perceive movement if he isn't going to know where Batman is? Well, seeing Batman is using stealth, he could shoot two blast and everything would be gone around him. One in front of him and one behind. It would take like 10 seconds to do that. That would force Batman to go open.

- Again, seeing that Batman is playing the stealth game, Cyke isn't dumb enough to stay close to buildings. He would go in a more open area.

- Second of all, because of that, once Scott turns his head to face a different direction/degrees, Batman could be in the opposite direction/degrees. Cyke needs to shoot only two beams to cover 360 degrees. Batman won't have the time to tag him before that. And you can't play the if game. You said what if Batman will be in the opposite direction? Well, what if Batman was not in the opposite direction.

Avatar image for jashro44
jashro44

57695

Forum Posts

253

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#286  Edited By jashro44

@yourneighborhoodcomicgeek:

Would this work in a city? I mean, I could see the optic blast hitting the first building and just flat-out destroying it, not bouncing off it.

It should. Cyclops can perform ricochet shots because of a combination of control in his blasts, along with his accuracy. The material he uses it on doesn't matter (to my knowledge).

Avatar image for ultimatejonathan
UltimateJonathan

108

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Batman always wins.

Avatar image for yourneighborhoodcomicgeek
YourNeighborhoodComicGeek

21616

Forum Posts

23390

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 11

User Lists: 15

@cheesesticks said:

@yourneighborhoodcomicgeek said:

What are you talking about? How would it come behind him? Cyclops wouldn't know where Batman is after he ducks into cover. Cyclops will be at a distance, so he can't fight Batman, only try and locate Bruce and shoot a wide or precise blast (in this scenario, in the beginning, precise). If he goes with any other option it will be closing distance, and Batman will surely win there.

So...what you're saying is that Superman can't hear Batman coming because he's changing his shirt? My friend, we are using comic book logic, and by comic book logic Superman can sense things no matter what he's doing. He's suppose to be, to humans, omnipotent-like and omniscient-like. For example, I can hear someone walking into my room even if I am changing or doing multiple things at once. Cyclops will concentrate on finding Batman, but his concentration is like 10% of Superman's brain, because Superman's Kryptonian origin allows him to think at a much faster rate.

Exactly, that was what I was saying. I was merely reflecting on what you said and analyzing other routes Cyclops would attempt to take for a victory. Unfortunately, the only reasonable way for Cyclops to win is staying his distance, and that also has its own very negative repercussions, which is a positive advantage for Batman.

Batman may or may not know Cyclops will shoot at the very beginning (although I personally believe he can find hints at it with Cyclop's VERY evident visor), but he could still dodge it. Plus Batman almost never just fights an opponent in the open like that. He stealthily takes them down, or at least makes a diversion or disorientation of some kind. Heck, Batman usually uses smoke grenades right off the bat (hehe, bat), so that would interfere with Scott's marksmanship. Regarding to Scott using a wide blast right after Batman leaps into cover, that is highly questionable. First of all, Cyclops may not do that due to his morals/attitude. Either he will just spam his precise beams to diminish Batman's cover (in which Bruce would evade with moderate difficulty), or use a wide beam that would only be intense enough to blast a couple of the surrounding items, which still isn't enough to expose The Bat.

And how will Cyclops perceive movement if he isn't going to know where Batman is? Batman could be way outside of Scott's field of vision. That is what Bruce does to stealth take-down his opponents.

360 degrees with his laser has many different disadvantages. The most obvious one for me is that it won't even take down all the buildings. It would maybe take down the first layer of buildings and cars (not even all of it to be honest). Second of all, because of that, once Scott turns his head to face a different direction/degrees, Batman could be in the opposite direction/degrees, and that would directly expose himself to countless different take-downs from Batman and his countless strategies and tactics he conceived.

- The first part is another scenario. Someone was saying that Cyke could make his beam bounce to get Batman. So if Cyke is fighting H2H he could make his laser bounce to get Bats from behind.

- I won't argue on the Superman think after this post since it's irrelevant from this fight. Superman was not expecting danger. Cyke know danger is there, so he's concentration will be at max. You can add adrenaline to this. Cyke won't be able to find Batman, but he will perceive movement. If this was a populated city, i'd agree with you, but this is unpopulated. So the moment he see movement, it's Batman. If Superman was expecting danger, he would have found Batman miles away.

- You're speaking like Batman is a god. If Batman try to see what's on Cyclops face it will be too late since his blast move at lightspeed. His only way to evade Cyke blast is to take cover right at the start. If he use smoke, then Cyke will know where Batman is and it's game over since Cyke can cover 180 degrees in one blast.

- Like i said, Cyke won't use wide beam at the start, but if he see Batman under cover, he will use it since small blast would do nothing. After Cyke shoot 3-4 blast and he sees that it's doing nothing, he will use large beam to blow every cover in Batman way. Remember that they are starting 30 feets away and Cyke can cover 180 degrees in one blast. Batman cannot evade that, unless he teleport. His blast as cut moutains, so yes, his beam can blow every cover in front of him(180 degrees).

- And how will Cyclops perceive movement if he isn't going to know where Batman is? Well, seeing Batman is using stealth, he could shoot two blast and everything would be gone around him. One in front of him and one behind. It would take like 10 seconds to do that. That would force Batman to go open.

- Again, seeing that Batman is playing the stealth game, Cyke isn't dumb enough to stay close to buildings. He would go in a more open area.

- Second of all, because of that, once Scott turns his head to face a different direction/degrees, Batman could be in the opposite direction/degrees. Cyke needs to shoot only two beams to cover 360 degrees. Batman won't have the time to tag him before that. And you can't play the if game. You said what if Batman will be in the opposite direction? Well, what if Batman was not in the opposite direction.

In a hand-to-hand fight I think Bruce would KO Scott before he could manage to do that.

Well in my opinion, a relaxed Superman still has 10x the senses of a highly concentrated Cyclops in my opinion, because Superman is very high-tier and his senses are always functioning no matter what. Cyclops on full concentration and trying to see movement is still not on par with Superman's senses, whether he is looking for someone or not.

Using smoke grenades, I assure you, will not expose Batman's location. That's the entire point of the smoke grenade. You place it by Point A so that you can move to Point B. Scott doesn't know where Point B is. Batman isn't a god, but I'm pretty sure he can place a smoke grenade and evade into cover while getting a good look on his opponent. It's not that hard. It's not like he has to study Cyke's face for 5 minutes straight.

Unfortunately, by the time Cyclops is facing a certain direction using his precise beams, which gradually increase to wider beams, Batman would have been in a completely different angle so he could sneak and flank on Scott. There are buildings everywhere, and Batman could just use his grappling hook to go to a completely different area, perhaps buildings away. By the time Cyclops decides to blast everything to smithereens Batman would have had a solid plan and implemented by then. He could have glided behind Cyclops and then tossed a freeze grenade or something along those lines. Scott trying to locate Batman and using precise/wide blasts will buy Bruce enough time to get buildings away and then move back in with a plan. They already start 30 feet away, which is not that close if you think about it.

Batman is using stealth yes, but he is using stealth TO evade, so he won't just be sitting behind cover. And say this does happen, Batman goes into the open, pretends to surrender, and then catches Cyclops off-guard with a gadget that is in his glove. It is in Bruce's character to trick his opponents. It is in Cyclop's character to try and subdue a foe that is already surrendering.

Just because Cyclops will go away from buildings, doesn't mean Batman will too. Batman is versatile and also has means of ranged attacks. The what if? game is appropriate. This entire thread is a what if?. The point is, Batman at one point WILL be at the opposite direction that Cyclops is facing if Cyclops has to fire two beams in two different directions. By then, Batman could glide in and KO Scott. If the optic blast was in the direction Bruce was in, it still wouldn't really harm him since it would cut the building in half, and Batman is ON TOP of the building.

And you can't say that "Scott turning around for a second or two to blast another area isn't enough time for Batman to evade the area", or "Scott turning around for a second or two to blast another area isn't enough time for Batman to close the gap and KO Cyclops", because Batman CAN. He has moved a great amount of land in seconds. Unexplained, sure, but he consistently does it.

  • Fights Andrew Bennet, a powerful vampire with enhanced senses, and still disappears before his eyes in a couple seconds.

As seen in the scan below, Batman is entirely outside of the area.

Avatar image for kingstandup
KingStandup

110

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 1

#289  Edited By KingStandup

I honestly believe Cyclops would wear himself out trying to pursue Batman. Initially, the Caped Crusader will hide and then begin using various weapons. Once frustrated, the leader of the X-Men will attempt to retaliate with his optic blasts, which never connect. The Dark Knight then uses some hand to hand combat and goes on to win this one.

Avatar image for theblackhood
TheBlackHood

594

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

First off, is the fight using the current iteration of each character? The reason I ask is that if we're using the current version of Cyclops who can barely control his powers, then this fight isn't even going to be close. I've seen a couple of people reference that we're using new 52 Batman who is somewhat less experienced but then they go on to give Cyclops all his feats from when he had control of his powers. I don't think you can use modern Batman but Cyclops from an earlier time. Be that as it may:

I am a huge Cyclops fan, but I feel like people are giving him way too much credit to his ruthlessness or not enough to his moral compass. Cyclops is NOT going to start off a battle against an enemy by leveling a city block. And the other assumption is that Batman is not going to know what Cyclops' powers are. He won't know the extent or range of his power; but look at Cyclops' suit. I don't have Batman's intellect but I can easily look at a costume almost devoid of decoration with a big ass red visor and easily say: "Dude has eye powers, avoid those." I don't think this would be an easy win for Batman AT ALL, but I think intelligence, the ability to use stealth, and smoke bombs will make all the difference.

Avatar image for cheesesticks
CheeseSticks

2867

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#291  Edited By CheeseSticks

@yourneighborhoodcomicgeek said:

In a hand-to-hand fight I think Bruce would KO Scott before he could manage to do that.

Well in my opinion, a relaxed Superman still has 10x the senses of a highly concentrated Cyclops in my opinion, because Superman is very high-tier and his senses are always functioning no matter what. Cyclops on full concentration and trying to see movement is still not on par with Superman's senses, whether he is looking for someone or not.

Using smoke grenades, I assure you, will not expose Batman's location. That's the entire point of the smoke grenade. You place it by Point A so that you can move to Point B. Scott doesn't know where Point B is. Batman isn't a god, but I'm pretty sure he can place a smoke grenade and evade into cover while getting a good look on his opponent. It's not that hard. It's not like he has to study Cyke's face for 5 minutes straight.

Unfortunately, by the time Cyclops is facing a certain direction using his precise beams, which gradually increase to wider beams, Batman would have been in a completely different angle so he could sneak and flank on Scott. There are buildings everywhere, and Batman could just use his grappling hook to go to a completely different area, perhaps buildings away. By the time Cyclops decides to blast everything to smithereens Batman would have had a solid plan and implemented by then. He could have glided behind Cyclops and then tossed a freeze grenade or something along those lines. Scott trying to locate Batman and using precise/wide blasts will buy Bruce enough time to get buildings away and then move back in with a plan. They already start 30 feet away, which is not that close if you think about it.

Batman is using stealth yes, but he is using stealth TO evade, so he won't just be sitting behind cover. And say this does happen, Batman goes into the open, pretends to surrender, and then catches Cyclops off-guard with a gadget that is in his glove. It is in Bruce's character to trick his opponents. It is in Cyclop's character to try and subdue a foe that is already surrendering.

Just because Cyclops will go away from buildings, doesn't mean Batman will too. Batman is versatile and also has means of ranged attacks. The what if? game is appropriate. This entire thread is a what if?. The point is, Batman at one point WILL be at the opposite direction that Cyclops is facing if Cyclops has to fire two beams in two different directions. By then, Batman could glide in and KO Scott. If the optic blast was in the direction Bruce was in, it still wouldn't really harm him since it would cut the building in half, and Batman is ON TOP of the building.

This is my last post for the night because i'm really tired lol. It's one of the few time i see someone making sense on Comicvine, so i will be back tomorrow!

- Agreed, i am not defending this scenario, i was explaining another user point.

- Well for the smoke grenade, Batman would have to toss it at the opposite of where he is, because if it's on the same side has him, then Cyclops could just blast that side. Batman doesn't have to watch Cyclops face for 5 minutes, but 1 second is all Cyclops need.

- The grappling hook would not work because Cyke can see in darkness and Batman would be open in the air. There's no cover there. Batman would have to distract Cyke before using it and Cyke could spot Batman movement.

- If Batman goes buildings away, Cyke can also make a plan. Remember that Cyke is nearly on par with Batman regarding combat tactics. During that time, Cyke could blow every cover close to him and he could make a 50 meters around him where there's no cover. Then batman would have to be open.

- If Batman tries to surrender before even fighting, Cyke isn't dumb enough to buy that, he would probably hit him with a blast(not a strong one since he's with morals). If he see that Batman isn't really giving up, then at least Cyke would know where Bats is and he could use wide blast then.

- Batman at one point WILL be at the opposite direction that Cyclops is facing if Cyclops has to fire two beams in two different directions. By then, Batman could glide in and KO Scott. If the optic blast was in the direction Bruce was in, it still wouldn't really harm him since it would cut the building in half, and Batman is ON TOP of the building. Agreed on the first part, but Batman would have to take cover to evade everyting going to him(because of Cyke first blast) before making his move to get Cyke, wich would give enough time for Scott to recover. Now, if Batman is on top of the building, then Cyke would do what i said in my fourth ''-'', forcing Batman to be open to get to Cyke. Also, Cyke could cut the building in two and Batman would have to move quickly because it would fall, then Cyclops would spot the grappling hook and he could get Bruce.

Avatar image for cheesesticks
CheeseSticks

2867

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#292  Edited By CheeseSticks

@theblackhood: If it was current Cyclops it would be a stomp for Batman. Do you really think they would have made this battle knowing this...
Avatar image for jashro44
jashro44

57695

Forum Posts

253

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Avatar image for tensor
tensor

9003

Forum Posts

179

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 4

Batman FTW. Unless cyclops can see in total darkness he can win.Batman would throw a few batarang at cyclops once he notice his powers. Batman would stay in stealth mode and then throw a gas grenade. The end.

Avatar image for theblackhood
TheBlackHood

594

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Avatar image for jashro44
jashro44

57695

Forum Posts

253

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#296  Edited By jashro44

@jashro44 said:

@theblackhood: @cheesesticks: It states in the OP that we are using pre AVX cyclops.

Ah, sorry then; not sure how the hell I missed that.

No problem.

@tensor said:

Batman FTW. Unless cyclops can see in total darkness he can win.Batman would throw a few batarang at cyclops once he notice his powers. Batman would stay in stealth mode and then throw a gas grenade. The end.

Cyclops has shown the ability to fight blind.

Avatar image for strongarm
Strongarm

5881

Forum Posts

3

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

One wide arc beam is enough, wide optic blast to prevent dodging

It is a quick draw match and cyke has every advantage

Avatar image for super_soldierxii
Super_SoldierXII

7664

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Can't help but feel Scott loses this one. Batman, being all "clever" and all, will see the big red ruby quartz visor strapped to Scott's eyes (I mean, c'mon), and figure right away that looks, in this particular battle, could very well kill. He'll hit a smoke pellet, go all stealth, take Cyclops out. End of story IMHO.

But, but, but, Cyclops has clobbered Wolverine, so Batman should be easy peasy in a random. Wrong. While both are undoubtedly top tier martial artists, their respective styles couldn't be more different. Wolverine relies on his durability in a fight more so than avoidance, it's part and parcel to his fighting style. Not so with Bruce. Cyclops knows he can unleash on Logan without killing him right off the,um, bat (couldn't help it). Again, not so with Bruce. And let's face it, Logan isn't nearly as clever as Bruce in his approach to a fight; all too often opting to go all "raar", "roar" and "snikt" on his antagonists. Not thinking things through is not Batman's M.O. Nor is Logan as geared or 'ninja-like' as Batman. Which is to say Logan doesn't have anywhere near the amount of tools to take Scott out as Bruce does, and has no choice but to close the distance and get in Scott's face.

Bruce will fall back on said gear and far superior hand to hand skill to avoid Scott's, admittedly, far superior offensive abilities.

Despite Cyclops' increasingly more questionable morals, he won't unleash with area of effect blasts. Not before knowing what he's up against, and by then it'll be too late IMHO. He'll try to tag Bruce with enough concussive force to put down a normal man first. So even if he does tag Bruce before Batman can evade, I'm not sure the one blast will be enough as a result.

Again, and to conclude, Batman sees the obvious weapon strapped to Scott's face, goes stealth to avoid, gets close, takes Scott out. The end.

Avatar image for cheesesticks
CheeseSticks

2867

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#299  Edited By CheeseSticks

@super_soldierxii: Wolverine has better agility than Batman and Cyclops blast move at lightspeed.

@tensor said:

Batman FTW. Unless cyclops can see in total darkness he can win.Batman would throw a few batarang at cyclops once he notice his powers. Batman would stay in stealth mode and then throw a gas grenade. The end.

Cyclops see red in the dark so yeah he can fight at 100%

Avatar image for yourneighborhoodcomicgeek
YourNeighborhoodComicGeek

21616

Forum Posts

23390

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 11

User Lists: 15

@cheesesticks said:

@yourneighborhoodcomicgeek said:

In a hand-to-hand fight I think Bruce would KO Scott before he could manage to do that.

Well in my opinion, a relaxed Superman still has 10x the senses of a highly concentrated Cyclops in my opinion, because Superman is very high-tier and his senses are always functioning no matter what. Cyclops on full concentration and trying to see movement is still not on par with Superman's senses, whether he is looking for someone or not.

Using smoke grenades, I assure you, will not expose Batman's location. That's the entire point of the smoke grenade. You place it by Point A so that you can move to Point B. Scott doesn't know where Point B is. Batman isn't a god, but I'm pretty sure he can place a smoke grenade and evade into cover while getting a good look on his opponent. It's not that hard. It's not like he has to study Cyke's face for 5 minutes straight.

Unfortunately, by the time Cyclops is facing a certain direction using his precise beams, which gradually increase to wider beams, Batman would have been in a completely different angle so he could sneak and flank on Scott. There are buildings everywhere, and Batman could just use his grappling hook to go to a completely different area, perhaps buildings away. By the time Cyclops decides to blast everything to smithereens Batman would have had a solid plan and implemented by then. He could have glided behind Cyclops and then tossed a freeze grenade or something along those lines. Scott trying to locate Batman and using precise/wide blasts will buy Bruce enough time to get buildings away and then move back in with a plan. They already start 30 feet away, which is not that close if you think about it.

Batman is using stealth yes, but he is using stealth TO evade, so he won't just be sitting behind cover. And say this does happen, Batman goes into the open, pretends to surrender, and then catches Cyclops off-guard with a gadget that is in his glove. It is in Bruce's character to trick his opponents. It is in Cyclop's character to try and subdue a foe that is already surrendering.

Just because Cyclops will go away from buildings, doesn't mean Batman will too. Batman is versatile and also has means of ranged attacks. The what if? game is appropriate. This entire thread is a what if?. The point is, Batman at one point WILL be at the opposite direction that Cyclops is facing if Cyclops has to fire two beams in two different directions. By then, Batman could glide in and KO Scott. If the optic blast was in the direction Bruce was in, it still wouldn't really harm him since it would cut the building in half, and Batman is ON TOP of the building.

This is my last post for the night because i'm really tired lol. It's one of the few time i see someone making sense on Comicvine, so i will be back tomorrow!

- Agreed, i am not defending this scenario, i was explaining another user point.

- Well for the smoke grenade, Batman would have to toss it at the opposite of where he is, because if it's on the same side has him, then Cyclops could just blast that side. Batman doesn't have to watch Cyclops face for 5 minutes, but 1 second is all Cyclops need.

- The grappling hook would not work because Cyke can see in darkness and Batman would be open in the air. There's no cover there. Batman would have to distract Cyke before using it and Cyke could spot Batman before that.

- If Batman goes buildings away, Cyke can also make a plan. Remember that Cyke is nearly on par with Batman regarding combat tactics. During that time, Cyke could blow every cover close to him and he could make a 50 meters around him where there's no cover. Then batman would have to be open.

- If Batman tries to surrender before even fighting, Cyke isn't dumb enough to buy that, he would probably hit him with a blast(not a strong since he's with morals). If he see that Batman isn't really giving up, then at least Cyke would know where Bats is and he could use wide blast then.

- Batman at one point WILL be at the opposite direction that Cyclops is facing if Cyclops has to fire two beams in two different directions. By then, Batman could glide in and KO Scott. If the optic blast was in the direction Bruce was in, it still wouldn't really harm him since it would cut the building in half, and Batman is ON TOP of the building. Agreed on the first part, but Batman would have to take cover to evade everyting going to him(because of Cyke first blast) before making his move to get Cyke, wich would give enough time for Scott to recover. Now, if Batman is on top of the building, then Cyke would do what i said in my fourth ''-'', forcing Batman to be open to get to Cyke. Also, Cyke could cut the building in two and Batman would have to move quickly because it would fall, then Cylops would spot the grappling hook and he could get Bruce.

Amen to that my friend! Gotta say despite we are disagreed on this subject, it's been a great experience debating with you.

Okay understood.

The thing is Batman throws the smoke grenade exactly where he is (was), and the person would usually shoot their gun, or optic blast in this case, at the location of the smoke grenade, when really it is a misdirection and Batman is already on top of another building via his grappling hook. 1 second may be enough if they were closer, but I personally think Batman would just glance at Cyclops and be able to analyze his costume, and infer what his power is. Like @theblackhood said, we are nowhere near as intelligent as Bruce Wayne, and we can tall at a glance that Cyclop's power would be something revolving around eye beams. Bruce could draw that conclusion while he is already throwing the smoke grenade and evading. He's skilled enough to do so. On top of that, Batman could make a ricochet shot that could stick right into Scott's visor to tamper with his optic blasts. He has done similar things before during chaos.

Batman is stealthy enough I assure you. Batman is the master of stealth. He would find a way to grapple onto another building without being detected. This is downtown city at night man. There is lots of cover and tall buildings that obscure the visibility of objects behind them. Batman has experience with downtown cities, so he'll know how to move without being spotted.

Sure Cyclops can also make a plan, but it won't be as efficient as Batman's due to the disadvantages he is at due to the environment, as well as Bruce's versatility. Also, when The Dark Knight strikes again (see what I did there?), it will be from behind Cyclops, not in front of him behind cover to slowly advance. Batman is fast enough to close that gap before Scott turns around as depicted in numerous scans, so Bruce can pull this off.

As for the surrendering plan, Batman would already have that covered, as he fights against foes who WOULD just kill him right on the spot as he pretends to yield. His fast hand motions has allowed him to set traps before on unsuspecting enemies. That is the plan I was referring to. Batman plants something as he is evading, and/or goes outside to plan further, and goes back in. He may or may not choose to mock surrender depending on the situation. Chances are, Cyclops would turn around and try and subdue Bruce, only to lose. Batman isn't the only one who is brutal you know.

Those things are so tiny Batman could have flicked them onto Cyclops without him even knowing. Heck, as he raises his arms in a mock gesture of surrender, he could have quickly flicked it onto Scott, unknowingly, perhaps on his visor. Then, it would have went Kaboom and Scott would be KO'd.

He's also got ones specifically made for eye protection, if Batman ever needs to get up close and personal.

Eh. I'm a bit iffy on the Cyclop's last tactic. It will be very hard for Cyclops to spot a very tiny Batman evading rubble and debris everywhere (expertly, I might add), as he closes in the gap very quickly. There will be smoke from the blast everywhere, not even counting the trap that Batman left behind. I just don't see Cyke locating Batman in this scenario, plus the debris from the blast.