Batgirl (difficlus) vs Luke (Silver2467)

I'm sure silver already knows the outcome 
Cassandra's reflexes, skill and move prediction along with suitable prep gives her the win. A well thought out ambush will finish Luke. 

and cannot use any force powers   

" @Jazzitup said:

and cannot use any force powers   

You said I could use Force powers as long as they were only tied to physical attributes.  "

" @Jazzitup said:

and cannot use any force powers   

You said I could use Force powers as long as they were only tied to physical attributes.  "

" @Silver2467 said:

" @Jazzitup said:

and cannot use any force powers   

You said I could use Force powers as long as they were only tied to physical attributes.  "

Oh sorry. U can now use it ^^ "

" @Jazzitup: Maybe you should stop making threads "

Luke wins. In the RotJ novel, Luke was able to use Force Jump to leap above the height of the rancor. So he has the definite maneuverability advantage. During Shadows of the Empire, Luke used Force Speed to grant himself reflexes fast enough to pull out his lightsaber and deflect a blaster bolt after it was fired from point blank range. He then went on to deflect dozens of blaster bolts point blank without much real effort. Luke is also stronger than Cassandra, as in the Empire Strikes Back novel, during his training with Yoda on Dagobah, Luke began practicing concentration by performing hand stands while simultaneously using Force powers. However, in the novel, he started by standing on two hands, then progressed to one hand, and finally, Luke was able to stand on one thumb. I should also point out that one strike would be sufficient to down to Cassandra, and honestly, if Cassandra is throwing basic melee strikes with her hands and feet, what is there preventing Luke from simply putting his lightsaber in the path of her hands/feet? He could just melt her hands off when she tries to punch him. As I mentioned above, Luke's reflexes by the Truce at Bakura are easily enough to hang with Cassandra, and other fighters have managed the same (Shiva, Bats, Slade, etc.). Luke's reaction time is comparable to theirs and Cassandra's. No reason to assume she has a speed advantage, except for travel speed, but that would be of no benefit to her. 
 
Luke has a serious edge over her.

" @FinalStar86 said:

" @Jazzitup: Maybe you should stop making threads "

That was very mean nd rude. Maybe u should be more respectful to a lady bitch. "

" @Jazzitup said:

" @Silver2467 said:

" @Jazzitup said:

and cannot use any force powers   

You said I could use Force powers as long as they were only tied to physical attributes.  "

Oh sorry. U can now use it ^^ "

wait he has telepathy and telekinesis  wouldn't those be psychic powers "

" @Jazzitup: Maybe you should stop making threads "

" @Jazzitup: Maybe you should stop making threads "

" @Silver2467: So now he has 15 times human reaction time?   

"Cass is still better off, the ambush plays it into her hands. Does he have any enhanced senses?   

" @hydrabob said:

" @Jazzitup said:

" @Silver2467 said:

" @Jazzitup said:

and cannot use any force powers   

You said I could use Force powers as long as they were only tied to physical attributes.  "

Oh sorry. U can now use it ^^ "

wait he has telepathy and telekinesis  wouldn't those be psychic powers "

"Physical attributes." Not psychic abilities.  "

"@difficlus: a Batman hater that thinks Cassandra can take out a Jedi?!  Jedi, as in enhanced reflexes, telekinesis, and and weapon that seems to be able to cut through anything?! "

Why are you guys commenting if you know nothing about the characters being debated? This is not even your debate anyway. 

Bump so i can find it easily Keep up the good work on the debate

" @difficlus said:

" @Silver2467: So now he has 15 times human reaction time?   

What? 
 
@difficlus said:

"Cass is still better off, the ambush plays it into her hands. Does he have any enhanced senses?   

Luke has empathetic detection. Also, as I said, his reflexes should be sufficient to avoid an attack from her, and on top of that, Cassandra will not be downing Luke in one strike. He has a fairly high pain tolerance by this point, and with a little focus, he can dampen pain and heal wounds.  "

I was asking how quick his reaction time was, i thought you mentioned 15 times human speed speed.   

Anyway, i never said she would down him in an instant. A simple canister of Knock-out gas or Tear gas will leave him reeling for long enough for her to hand some heavy hits, maybe tie him up using her batarangs.  "

" Luke wins. In the RotJ novel, Luke was able to use Force Jump to leap above the height of the rancor. So he has the definite maneuverability advantage. During Shadows of the Empire, Luke used Force Speed to grant himself reflexes fast enough to pull out his lightsaber and deflect a blaster bolt after it was fired from point blank range. He then went on to deflect dozens of blaster bolts point blank without much real effort. Luke is also stronger than Cassandra, as in the Empire Strikes Back novel, during his training with Yoda on Dagobah, Luke began practicing concentration by performing hand stands while simultaneously using Force powers. However, in the novel, he started by standing on two hands, then progressed to one hand, and finally, Luke was able to stand on one thumb. I should also point out that one strike would be sufficient to down to Cassandra, and honestly, if Cassandra is throwing basic melee strikes with her hands and feet, what is there preventing Luke from simply putting his lightsaber in the path of her hands/feet? He could just melt her hands off when she tries to punch him. As I mentioned above, Luke's reflexes by the Truce at Bakura are easily enough to hang with Cassandra, and other fighters have managed the same (Shiva, Bats, Slade, etc.). Luke's reaction time is comparable to theirs and Cassandra's. No reason to assume she has a speed advantage, except for travel speed, but that would be of no benefit to her.  Luke has a serious edge over her. "

" @difficlus said:

I was asking how quick his reaction time was, i thought you mentioned 15 times human speed speed.   

I never said that. 
 

Anyway, i never said she would down him in an instant. A simple canister of Knock-out gas or Tear gas will leave him reeling for long enough for her to hand some heavy hits, maybe tie him up using her batarangs.  "

Out of everyone in the Bat-family, Cassandra uses gadgets the least. They are not her usual method of combat. She tends to rely on her hand to hand prowess. Also, Cassandra's equipment has never seemed as unique or advance as anyone else either. Her gadgets are fairly basic and straightforward, without much variety or borderline plot device power.   As for tying him up, Luke can easily cut himself out of that, and gas, he can simply jump away from. Besides, if Cassandra threw any pellets or sent a line down to restrain him with, that would give away her exact position. "

" @Jazzitup: Maybe you should stop making threads "

" @Silver2467 said:

" Luke wins. In the RotJ novel, Luke was able to use Force Jump to leap above the height of the rancor. So he has the definite maneuverability advantage. During Shadows of the Empire, Luke used Force Speed to grant himself reflexes fast enough to pull out his lightsaber and deflect a blaster bolt after it was fired from point blank range. He then went on to deflect dozens of blaster bolts point blank without much real effort. Luke is also stronger than Cassandra, as in the Empire Strikes Back novel, during his training with Yoda on Dagobah, Luke began practicing concentration by performing hand stands while simultaneously using Force powers. However, in the novel, he started by standing on two hands, then progressed to one hand, and finally, Luke was able to stand on one thumb. I should also point out that one strike would be sufficient to down to Cassandra, and honestly, if Cassandra is throwing basic melee strikes with her hands and feet, what is there preventing Luke from simply putting his lightsaber in the path of her hands/feet? He could just melt her hands off when she tries to punch him. As I mentioned above, Luke's reflexes by the Truce at Bakura are easily enough to hang with Cassandra, and other fighters have managed the same (Shiva, Bats, Slade, etc.). Luke's reaction time is comparable to theirs and Cassandra's. No reason to assume she has a speed advantage, except for travel speed, but that would be of no benefit to her.  Luke has a serious edge over her. "

Very impressive (*sigh i hate these star wars dudes) 1. A force jump will not even matter if she rigs the area with toxic gases.  I don't even know how high a rancor is...2 Idk how fast those blaster bolts are but i'm betting there aren't faster than the bullet Cass has dodged at point blank. Even if he had the strength to break out being tied up cass would be given a seconds opportunity (seems he needs concentration to do those strength feats) to take him out quickly. 3. that is impressive, however cass can match his strength(and he did that through mediation which he won't have in this battle), with her pressure point attacks which should be capable of immobilizing him momentarily.  4. I'm sure cass's move prediction would come in handy in predicting how luke will strike her. Plus she has good reflexes, i don't see her getting cut up so easily as you display it. She also has formidable agility.  What serious edge? Cass still has her prep. Fair enough about his combat speed being equal to luke but she is capable of counter-acting many of his moves.  "

I know but for this battle i don't see why she can't use them to immobilize Luke with the given prep to consider he attacks. Yep her gadgets are straight forward, but every batman/woman has a batarang with rope around it. Cut himself out? With his hands behind his back? He can't just will the saber to himself over here. Plus from what you've shown it takes concentration to gain his extra strength. The few seconds he is out will give Cass the opportunity to finish him.  She doesn't need to throw them, booby traps.       "

" @difficlus said:

" @Silver2467 said:

" Luke wins. In the RotJ novel, Luke was able to use Force Jump to leap above the height of the rancor. So he has the definite maneuverability advantage. During Shadows of the Empire, Luke used Force Speed to grant himself reflexes fast enough to pull out his lightsaber and deflect a blaster bolt after it was fired from point blank range. He then went on to deflect dozens of blaster bolts point blank without much real effort. Luke is also stronger than Cassandra, as in the Empire Strikes Back novel, during his training with Yoda on Dagobah, Luke began practicing concentration by performing hand stands while simultaneously using Force powers. However, in the novel, he started by standing on two hands, then progressed to one hand, and finally, Luke was able to stand on one thumb. I should also point out that one strike would be sufficient to down to Cassandra, and honestly, if Cassandra is throwing basic melee strikes with her hands and feet, what is there preventing Luke from simply putting his lightsaber in the path of her hands/feet? He could just melt her hands off when she tries to punch him. As I mentioned above, Luke's reflexes by the Truce at Bakura are easily enough to hang with Cassandra, and other fighters have managed the same (Shiva, Bats, Slade, etc.). Luke's reaction time is comparable to theirs and Cassandra's. No reason to assume she has a speed advantage, except for travel speed, but that would be of no benefit to her.  Luke has a serious edge over her. "

Very impressive (*sigh i hate these star wars dudes) 1. A force jump will not even matter if she rigs the area with toxic gases.  I don't even know how high a rancor is...2 Idk how fast those blaster bolts are but i'm betting there aren't faster than the bullet Cass has dodged at point blank. Even if he had the strength to break out being tied up cass would be given a seconds opportunity (seems he needs concentration to do those strength feats) to take him out quickly. 3. that is impressive, however cass can match his strength(and he did that through mediation which he won't have in this battle), with her pressure point attacks which should be capable of immobilizing him momentarily.  4. I'm sure cass's move prediction would come in handy in predicting how luke will strike her. Plus she has good reflexes, i don't see her getting cut up so easily as you display it. She also has formidable agility.  What serious edge? Cass still has her prep. Fair enough about his combat speed being equal to luke but she is capable of counter-acting many of his moves.  "

1. Cassandra has few, if any real prep feats, and on top of that, she only has one hour. If we were to assume she would do that, then we might as well say she will be using Batman's Boom Tube gauntlet. As for the rancor, have you ever watched Return of the Jedi? You should have a fairly decent idea of how tall they are. 
2. Blaster bolts are slower than bullets, but you missed the point. A blaster bolt was fired from point blank range (from a guard only a couple yards away down the hall), and Luke pulled his lightsaber from his belt after it was fired, ignited it, and blocked the bolt. He went on to deflect numerous blaster bolts from several directions, and honestly, while they may travel at slower speeds than bullets, deflecting them is more impressive than dodging them. To dodge a projectile, all that needs to be done is to reflexively move your body out of the path of whatever missile is being fired. To deflect them, you have to be able to coordinate whatever you deflect the projectile with (in this case being Luke's lightsaber) into the path of the blaster bolt. Really, it is both a reaction time feat and, in some ways, translatable to a combat feat, as Luke has to swiftly move his lightsaber against multiple blaster bolts traveling toward him from more than one direction. He can manage this easily by the Truce at Bakura.  3. As for strength, it did not require complete concentration, and I should also point out that Luke was able to hold out against Vader three times and in one of those three duels beat him. Vader is known for his physical strength (he is stronger than Cassandra, just so you know). There have been opponents Vader dueled that have been overwhelmed by his strength when their lightsabers met. Luke was able to hold his own without that problem. Also, when I said Luke could break out of being tied, I meant by using his lightsaber, not breaking the line by pure brawn.4. I never said he would easily strike her, but there is really nothing preventing him from blocking her strikes with his lightsaber and just cutting her hands off. She is fast, and it would not be easy to land a hit on her. But even if Cassandra effectively utilized her prep, the OP never said she had knowledge of Luke's abilities or his equipment, and as a result, she would probably fight him head to head, which is a situation that favors Luke. He has the advantage because it would only take one or two slashes at the very max to incapacitate/kill Cassandra. "1  

" @difficlus said: 

I know but for this battle i don't see why she can't use them to immobilize Luke with the given prep to consider he attacks. Yep her gadgets are straight forward, but every batman/woman has a batarang with rope around it. Cut himself out? With his hands behind his back? He can't just will the saber to himself over here. Plus from what you've shown it takes concentration to gain his extra strength. The few seconds he is out will give Cass the opportunity to finish him.  She doesn't need to throw them, booby traps.       "

The OP never said she has any prior knowledge of Luke, and where do you gain the impression she could tie his arms behind his back? How in the world is she supposed to manage that? If he were to be tied, his arms would be restrained around his sides or in front of him.  "

ok i'm not reading all of that let me know when you guys decide who wins
somehow i knew this fight would be this way
i'll be back sometime next week

 Cassandra's reflexes, skill and move prediction along with suitable prep gives her the win. A well thought out ambush will finish Luke.  "

" @difficlus said:

 Cassandra's reflexes, skill and move prediction along with suitable prep gives her the win. A well thought out ambush will finish Luke.  "

"

Alright fair enough, it will still take some time for him to reach them. Not a lot but some time.  "

1. Never seen return of the Jedi in full, only the last like 20 minutes sorry.  Wait i just looked in google, looks like 20 feet tall. impressive.  

I still think Cass will be able to make the most out of the prep, maybe not impressive bobbytraps but certainly enough to scope out the battle area and coordinate her attacks.   

3. SO he outwrestled Vader? Or just fought him simply and you're bring up his strength. Did Luke rely on ONLY all these physical stats in those battles?   

He couldn't reach them if his hands were tied. and he can't will them into his hands either. He's stuck until he concentrates hard enough to break them. Still then he is a sitting duck.   

4. Move prediction, if Luke reaches for the belt i'm sure her experience will teach her its a knife or gun, she can counter most of his moves this way too. And besides as soon as she sees some beam sword i'm sure she will be careful with her attacks.  

it won't be just her trying to blindly strike Luke and after a while he cuts off her hands, she'll want to see what the sword can do first and throw something at him probably. Once she sees how they cut through it she will be extremely careful. She should good at improvising.  "

I like how people are still deciding on the outcome of the fight without knowing anything about the opposition. 

" I like how people are still deciding on the outcome of the fight without knowing anything about the opposition.  "

" Hmm ok Silver wins nd will move on to the next round ^_^ "

" @difficlus: I disagree. Luke should win 7-8/10 at least, but a majority is still a win.  So, regardless, good discussion. "

" @Jazzitup said:

" Hmm ok Silver wins nd will move on to the next round ^_^ "

thanks to you 
-___- 
@Silver2467 said:

" @difficlus: I disagree. Luke should win 7-8/10 at least, but a majority is still a win.  So, regardless, good discussion. "

Fine 7/10. -___- 
  Well discussed.  "