Back in Black Spider-man vs Midnighter

Clash of the street-levelers who shouldn't really be street levelers.

Scenario 1. Random encounter. In character i.e no morals for both characters. All standard gear is available for example except no doors for midnighter. Spider-man has stingers and Organic Webbing.

Scenario 2. Both Characters get 1 week to devise a plan to utilize in combat, but cannot bring any additional gear or help into the battlefield. Also this a strictly hand to hand battle- no doors or cards allowed for midnighter and no stingers or webbing is allowed for spider-man.

Battles takes place at night. Win by K/O or death only.

Character's start at the end of the crossings.

Area is deserted. Who wins and why.

vs

Its been done many times..... Anyways as far as my minimum knowledge of midnighter goes I think midnighter wins (maybe stomps) both rounds. In round 1 he just bfr's him to the sun via door.  In round 2 midnighters battle computer gives him a huge tactical edge. 

@jashro44: link to previous battles? Oh i edited the battle. No doors allowed for midnighter.

@jashro44: thanks

...lol.

@ReVamp: yeah, cause not putting an opinion is really useful.

@laflux: Not trying to be useful. Spider-Man loses. Stomps. Whatever terms you want.

@ReVamp: fair enough

@laflux: Not trying to be useful. Spider-Man loses. Stomps. Whatever terms you want.

@spiderbat87 said:

@ReVamp said:

@laflux: Not trying to be useful. Spider-Man loses. Stomps. Whatever terms you want.

Well Buckshot always said Spider-Man is the only Marvel character that could give Midnighter a fight

Not with Speedblitz off and even then, Spider-Man has the potential to match him up but suffers from too many low showings to be put on par with Midnighter, though his powers are could be something. As it is, Midnighter is too fast for him to lay a punch on, especially with Middy knowing exactly what he's going to do and is capable of. If you want to make an argument, go ahead.

@spiderbat87 said:

@ReVamp said:

@laflux: Not trying to be useful. Spider-Man loses. Stomps. Whatever terms you want.

Well Buckshot always said Spider-Man is the only Marvel character that could give Midnighter a fight

Not with Speedblitz off and even then, Spider-Man has the potential to match him up but suffers from too many low showings to be put on par with Midnighter, though his powers are could be something. As it is, Midnighter is too fast for him to lay a punch on, especially with Middy knowing exactly what he's going to do and is capable of. If you want to make an argument, go ahead.

@ReVamp said:

@spiderbat87 said:

@ReVamp said:

@laflux: Not trying to be useful. Spider-Man loses. Stomps. Whatever terms you want.

Well Buckshot always said Spider-Man is the only Marvel character that could give Midnighter a fight

Not with Speedblitz off and even then, Spider-Man has the potential to match him up but suffers from too many low showings to be put on par with Midnighter, though his powers are could be something. As it is, Midnighter is too fast for him to lay a punch on, especially with Middy knowing exactly what he's going to do and is capable of. If you want to make an argument, go ahead.

I think "only" is a bit restrictive. There are some others.

I don't think Spider-Man has too many showings, I think his problem is his attitude. If he were fighting at his best, holding nothing back and looking to kill Midnighter as quickly as possible, I think he could do it. Though I'm thinking of a fight were Midnighter's Doors and explosives are removed.

@spiderbat87: @ReVamp: @jashro44:

Yeah i think the whole battle computer thing is an ex deux machimina. If midnighter was fighting darksied, wouldn't he just see 1 million scenario's in which he would get stomped. Midnighter has been beaten before. In that battle discussion one of the major things going against spider-man was his morals. Well he doesn't have that now. Further Pete's physical attributes far outweigh that of midnighter's, and his spider-sense partially compensates against the whole prediction thing. There's also webbing too. Of course midnighter is alot more skilled than spider-man though. Its not the curb stomp ReVamp and jashro44 are making it out to be. From what I've seen, people seen to be slightly more on spider-man's side and most are saying it would be a tough fight. That is what I believe.

@spiderbat87 said:

@ReVamp said:

@spiderbat87 said:

@ReVamp said:

@laflux: Not trying to be useful. Spider-Man loses. Stomps. Whatever terms you want.

Well Buckshot always said Spider-Man is the only Marvel character that could give Midnighter a fight

Not with Speedblitz off and even then, Spider-Man has the potential to match him up but suffers from too many low showings to be put on par with Midnighter, though his powers are could be something. As it is, Midnighter is too fast for him to lay a punch on, especially with Middy knowing exactly what he's going to do and is capable of. If you want to make an argument, go ahead.

Na I'm not bothered enough to make a case I just thought I'd add that in

Well firstly, I wrote that comment when Doors were still on, second -- and no offense to you -- Buckshot's claim without him here, is just a claim, regardless of who its from.

@laflux said:

Yeah i think the whole battle computer thing is an ex deux machimina. If midnighter was fighting darksied, wouldn't he just see 1 million scenario's in which he would get stomped. Midnighter has been beaten before. In that battle discussion one of the major things going against spider-man was his morals. Well he doesn't have that now. Further Pete's physical attributes far outweigh that of midnighter's, and his spider-sense partially compensates against the whole prediction thing. There's also webbing too. Of course midnighter is alot more skilled than spider-man though. Its not the curb stomp ReVamp and jashro44 are making it out to be. From what I've seen, people seen to be slightly more on spider-man's side and most are saying it would be a tough fight. That is what I believe.

To start with, of course it's a deus ex machina. Bendix (Ellis really) created it to be one for several reasons (such as h2h combat not really being the point of the stories being told, Midnighter needing to be on the level of his partner and team, and Midnighter being the over-exaggeration of Batman, and because Ellis likes to play with sci-fi/tech ideas). As for what he'd see if he fought Darkseid, of course he'd see a million stomps. Darkseid is well out of Midnighter's league. Spider-Man isn't though so it's not like he wouldn't see any possible victories. Some of Spider-Man's attributes are greater than Midnighter's (I give Pete strength and acrobatics, you'll have to fight for the others if you want them) but Midnighter doesn't need to have higher stats to win. He doesn't need to be stronger than Spider-Man to beat him, just strong enough to cause enough damage, which he is.

@spiderbat87 said:

@ReVamp said:

@spiderbat87 said:

@ReVamp said:

@laflux: Not trying to be useful. Spider-Man loses. Stomps. Whatever terms you want.

Well Buckshot always said Spider-Man is the only Marvel character that could give Midnighter a fight

Not with Speedblitz off and even then, Spider-Man has the potential to match him up but suffers from too many low showings to be put on par with Midnighter, though his powers are could be something. As it is, Midnighter is too fast for him to lay a punch on, especially with Middy knowing exactly what he's going to do and is capable of. If you want to make an argument, go ahead.

Na I'm not bothered enough to make a case I just thought I'd add that in

Well firstly, I wrote that comment when Doors were still on, second -- and no offense to you -- Buckshot's claim without him here, is just a claim, regardless of who its from.

@Buckshot said:

I think "only" is a bit restrictive. There are some others.

I don't think Spider-Man has too many showings, I think his problem is his attitude. If he were fighting at his best, holding nothing back and looking to kill Midnighter as quickly as possible, I think he could do it. Though I'm thinking of a fight were Midnighter's Doors and explosives are removed.

I don't know if I agree. Assuming this is a fight without Doors and the conditions you specifically stated (which are both factors that weren't considered in my initial post) then while I think Spider-Man has a potential to take it, he would still be extremely hardpressed to take a majority. The only manner in which I can see him taking a majority is if Midnighter attacks and Spiderman manages to get a shot in, which he can use to gain advantage over Midnighter and finish the fight with some fleetingness. Otherwise, I don't see him taking this. Another person with the same powers might be able to, but the thing is that Peter hasn't shown all that many feats in a bloodlusted mode (at least to my knowledge), which consequently dictates that I'm not sure he can use the raw abilities that he has at his disposal to their fullest potential. This is of course also excluding any extreme CIS. Midnighter on the other hand would be aware of Peter's powers and their level and would most likely keep a distance and then get in close at an opportunity and finish the fight quickly, especially since Parker has no webbing in this scenario.

@spiderbat87: Just have, I just needed some context to work with.

@Buckshot: I would say durability to blunt trauma as well as reflexes. speed is equal. Midnighter's redundant systems of course give him better healing stats, as well as the ability to overcome puncture wounds but considering that's not really part of spider-man's fighting style i would say that's a moot point.

Wow. This is a good battle.

I'm going to go with Midnighter here, and the reason is the week of preparation. With a week to run his computer to come up with the right plan he's pretty much unstoppable.

@Lady_Liberty: what about the first fight.

@ReVamp said:

@Buckshot said:

I think "only" is a bit restrictive. There are some others.

I don't think Spider-Man has too many showings, I think his problem is his attitude. If he were fighting at his best, holding nothing back and looking to kill Midnighter as quickly as possible, I think he could do it. Though I'm thinking of a fight were Midnighter's Doors and explosives are removed.

I don't know if I agree. Assuming this is a fight without Doors and the conditions you specifically stated (which are both factors that weren't considered in my initial post) then while I think Spider-Man has a potential to take it, he would still be extremely hardpressed to take a majority. The only manner in which I can see him taking a majority is if Midnighter attacks and Spiderman manages to get a shot in, which he can use to gain advantage over Midnighter and finish the fight with some fleetingness. Otherwise, I don't see him taking this. Another person with the same powers might be able to, but the thing is that Peter hasn't shown all that many feats in a bloodlusted mode (at least to my knowledge), which consequently dictates that I'm not sure he can use the raw abilities that he has at his disposal to their fullest potential. This is of course also excluding any extreme CIS. Midnighter on the other hand would be aware of Peter's powers and their level and would most likely keep a distance and then get in close at an opportunity and finish the fight quickly, especially since Parker has no webbing in this scenario.

Spider-Man has webs in this fight and it wouldn't take much to make that a huge advantage. Spraying the area with webbing severely cuts down on Midnighter's mobility, making him an easier target and putting a large speed gap between him and Spider-man, it's likely that it would be enough to make it so that despite Midnighter knowing what would happen next, he wouldn't have the speed to do anything about it. I don't understand how Spider-Man might be lacking in feats. He has demonstrated sufficient strength that if Midnighter were immobilized, he could pummel him into unconsciousness.

@laflux said:

@Buckshot: I would say durability to blunt trauma as well as reflexes. speed is equal. Midnighter's redundant systems of course give him better healing stats, as well as the ability to overcome puncture wounds but considering that's not really part of spider-man's fighting style i would say that's a moot point.

You think Spider-Man has greater durability to blunt damage and greater reflexes? Reflexes are hard to say either way since they both have systems to allow them to know something is coming before it does so they're not really ever reacting at the last second and it's hard to tell when exactly they're reacting to, say, a bullet, and therefore who is doing it faster. As for durability, I think Midnighter handling explosions and being crashed on by a spaceship (back to back) show high durability for him, as does taking jack hawksmoor in h2h and being able to walk off hits from Sebastian and Regis without long term damage. And since you included stingers in this fight, I wouldn't say resistance to getting stabbed is irrelevant.

@Buckshot: granted for the durability but spider-man has also taken explosions too and hits from Thor, hulk and juggernaut and still continued to fight. The guy can stop cars just by leaning into them. Over a long period i would say that midnighter has superior durability stats though, due to healing, turning off pain receptors and redundant systems etc. Stingers are valid in the first fight, where they are allowed but not in the second one where they are not.

@Buckshot said:

@ReVamp said:

@Buckshot said:

I think "only" is a bit restrictive. There are some others.

I don't think Spider-Man has too many showings, I think his problem is his attitude. If he were fighting at his best, holding nothing back and looking to kill Midnighter as quickly as possible, I think he could do it. Though I'm thinking of a fight were Midnighter's Doors and explosives are removed.

I don't know if I agree. Assuming this is a fight without Doors and the conditions you specifically stated (which are both factors that weren't considered in my initial post) then while I think Spider-Man has a potential to take it, he would still be extremely hardpressed to take a majority. The only manner in which I can see him taking a majority is if Midnighter attacks and Spiderman manages to get a shot in, which he can use to gain advantage over Midnighter and finish the fight with some fleetingness. Otherwise, I don't see him taking this. Another person with the same powers might be able to, but the thing is that Peter hasn't shown all that many feats in a bloodlusted mode (at least to my knowledge), which consequently dictates that I'm not sure he can use the raw abilities that he has at his disposal to their fullest potential. This is of course also excluding any extreme CIS. Midnighter on the other hand would be aware of Peter's powers and their level and would most likely keep a distance and then get in close at an opportunity and finish the fight quickly, especially since Parker has no webbing in this scenario.

Spider-Man has webs in this fight and it wouldn't take much to make that a huge advantage. Spraying the area with webbing severely cuts down on Midnighter's mobility, making him an easier target and putting a large speed gap between him and Spider-man, it's likely that it would be enough to make it so that despite Midnighter knowing what would happen next, he wouldn't have the speed to do anything about it. I don't understand how Spider-Man might be lacking in feats. He has demonstrated sufficient strength that if Midnighter were immobilized, he could pummel him into unconsciousness.

Shakes head at not getting this in inbox

He can spray the whole Plaza? In such a manner Midnighter will actually be restricted? Besides, if that were what were going to happen then what most probably happen is that after using his Battle Computer he'd close the gap in such a manner that Spider-Man wouldn't be able to successfully complete his "spray" of Organic Webbing. Also, couldn't Midnighter just break free from his webs. I'm can't recall how strong his organic webbing proved to be.

@ReVamp: the webbing is significantly stronger than his synthetic webbing which has held the hulk. Midnighter will not get out of it if he's trapped.

Scenario One: Spider-Man should win. 
 
Scenario Two: Midnighter would win with the use of preparation. 

@laflux said:

@ReVamp: the webbing is significantly stronger than his synthetic webbing which has held the hulk. Midnighter will not get out of it if he's trapped.

When was this?

@ReVamp: numerous times but even more impressive is him holding the daily bugle with it. Midnighter is not getting out of all that webbing.

@ReVamp: the webbing is significantly stronger than his synthetic webbing which has held the hulk. Midnighter will not get out of it if he's trapped.

@laflux: Not applicable as its not organic, you can clearly see the cartridges on the floor. He may not be able to produce as much organically.

@jashro44: Firstly that's (self-acknowledged) not large areas and what happens next?

If there's a .0000001% chance of Midnighter winning, he wins.

Or is my math off?

I think Peter's use of prep here is being severely undervalued.  I don't know enough about Midnighter to comment on the outcome.  

It has been stated numerous times that spider-man's organic webbing is stronger than his homemade one.

@jashro44: Interesting and Not really. 7

@laflux: If that's directed at me, then its not related to what I said.

Is Back in Black Spidey the version where his spidey-sense is heightened to become even stronger? Or am I confusing this with another? And if this is that Spidey, does anyone have any scans of his augmented Spidey-sense?

Is Back in Black Spidey the version where his spidey-sense is heightened to become even stronger? Or am I confusing this with another? And if this is that Spidey, does anyone have any scans of his augmented Spidey-sense?

@Sherlock said:

@progenitor said:

Is Back in Black Spidey the version where his spidey-sense is heightened to become even stronger? Or am I confusing this with another? And if this is that Spidey, does anyone have any scans of his augmented Spidey-sense?

You may be referring to What If Spidey.He would massacre Midnighter...and pretty much anyone else. I think Back in Black came about around the Civil war time

Aaah, okay, thanks for clarifying, bro. Btw, I have to ask, is your new AV from Princess Mononoke?

@Sherlock said:

@progenitor said:

Is Back in Black Spidey the version where his spidey-sense is heightened to become even stronger? Or am I confusing this with another? And if this is that Spidey, does anyone have any scans of his augmented Spidey-sense?

You may be referring to What If Spidey.He would massacre Midnighter...and pretty much anyone else. I think Back in Black came about around the Civil war time

Aaah, okay, thanks for clarifying, bro. Btw, I have to ask, is your new AV from Princess Mononoke?

@Sherlock said:

@progenitor said:

Is Back in Black Spidey the version where his spidey-sense is heightened to become even stronger? Or am I confusing this with another? And if this is that Spidey, does anyone have any scans of his augmented Spidey-sense?

You may be referring to What If Spidey.He would massacre Midnighter...and pretty much anyone else. I think Back in Black came about around the Civil war time

I disagree, but I've already written that essay.

I know this is slightly off-topic, but can I get a small reading list on What-If Spider-Man? (through PM, as to not derail the thread, please). Thankies.

@Sherlock said:

@progenitor said:

Is Back in Black Spidey the version where his spidey-sense is heightened to become even stronger? Or am I confusing this with another? And if this is that Spidey, does anyone have any scans of his augmented Spidey-sense?

You may be referring to What If Spidey.He would massacre Midnighter...and pretty much anyone else. I think Back in Black came about around the Civil war time

I disagree, but I've already written that essay.

Midnighter.

@Sherlock: http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles/7/what-if-spider-man-vs-midnighter/415054/

Round 1: Could go either way. Leaning towards Spider-man

Round 2: Midnighter

Midnighter.

Midnighter.