Avengers vs Guardians of the Galaxy

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Killemall

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#51  Edited By Killemall

@czarny_samael666 said:

Hmmm... Hard to say, a specially that he was immune to TP against Emma. P.S.Did You've answered me, after You edited Your post? Because I didn't have any sing about it in my inbox.

He wasnt immune to TP against emma in AvX and has to use nanites that forced her to be in the diamond form. Emma specifically came out saying she could shut down the entire avengers in seconds, i see no reason for her to lie to Scott. Also where are you getting that Iron Man is immune to TP? Mandirine has TPed him twice after 2008.

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czarny_samael666

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#52  Edited By czarny_samael666
@Killemall said:

@czarny_samael666 said:

Hmmm... Hard to say, a specially that he was immune to TP against Emma. P.S.Did You've answered me, after You edited Your post? Because I didn't have any sing about it in my inbox.

He wasnt immune to TP against emma in AvX and has to use nanites that forced her to be in the diamond form. Emma specifically came out saying she could shut down the entire avengers in seconds, i see no reason for her to lie to Scott. Also where are you getting that Iron Man is immune to TP? Mandirine has TPed him twice after 2008.

Emma knew that she can't touch, not only his mind, but any of the Avengers even before that.. 
 
As You can see, I am not an-Iron Man expert and only thing I can give You for now is this interview:
http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=37675
 
And this quote from Morpheus_:
@Morpheus_ said:
@god_spawn said:

@Morpheus_: Just for clarification Morph is Tony immune to telepathy or just highly resistant?

Immune, at least when Fraction is writing him.
http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles/7/iron-man-vs-x-men/648441/
 
@Kyle_Dornez said:

@czarny_samael666 said:

5.Stark will take her out, before any of his teammates will start to fight him. Besides, he would have to allow Hulk to fight with him.

I think the distance here will play in her favor - Moondragons TP has almost planetary range, and I never saw any sniping feats from Bleeding Edge armor...


He acctually just needs to shoot his missles (were they called smart-missels?) on her.
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Veitha

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#53  Edited By Veitha

@czarny_samael666:

1. This isn't a 1v1 battle, the teams fight each others using the best tactics. I think that Starlord is going to send Drax against Rulk because he's the best person to fight Rulk.

2. Gamora has got healing factor that allowed her to survive the heat of a star while he was on the surface. It is enough to resist to Valkirie's attacks. I don't know about skills: she's the most dangeours woman in the Galaxy, it must mean something.

3. IronMan can't attack both the telepaths in the team at the same time, and Mantis has got preocog powers so it's going to be difficult to beat her. And Stark isn't immune to TP, he's got resistance but he's not totally immune.

4. Phyla has got the Quantum Bands, so she's got the same powers that Quasar has. She can absorb energy and manipulate quantum energy to create constructs. It means that Phyla is going to take down Ms.Marvel easily absorbing her energy, then she will fight Tony, and she can beat him.

5. You're understimating Rocket Racoon and Starlord. They've got enough skills to take down street-level Avengers like Barton, especially if they're together.

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czarny_samael666

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#54  Edited By czarny_samael666
@Veitha said:

@czarny_samael666:

1. This isn't a 1v1 battle, the teams fight each others using the best tactics. I think that Starlord is going to send Drax against Rulk because he's the best person to fight Rulk.

2. Gamora has got healing factor that allowed her to survive the heat of a star while he was on the surface. It is enough to resist to Valkirie's attacks. I don't know about skills: she's the most dangeours woman in the Galaxy, it must mean something.

3. IronMan can't attack both the telepaths in the team at the same time, and Mantis has got preocog powers so it's going to be difficult to beat her. And Stark isn't immune to TP, he's got resistance but he's not totally immune.

4. Phyla has got the Quantum Bands, so she's got the same powers that Quasar has. She can absorb energy and manipulate quantum energy to create constructs. It means that Phyla is going to take down Ms.Marvel easily absorbing her energy, then she will fight Tony, and she can beat him.

5. You're understimating Rocket Racoon and Starlord. They've got enough skills to take down street-level Avengers like Barton, especially if they're together.

1.But why, Iron Fist for example, should allow him to do that? 
2.And Valkyrie is much stronger and has better experience than Gamora. Dragonfang can take her out, if she will lend a strike on her. 
3.It is still on topic. I am looking for scans.
4.No, until she will show that. Her showings with QB aren't even close to Quasar's.
5.Only if they're together. Barton is faster, better skilled and has better feats with his arrow, then they have with their guns.
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Kyle_Dornez

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#55  Edited By Kyle_Dornez

@czarny_samael666 said:

4.No, until she will show that. Her showings with QB aren't even close to Quasar's.

But she did absorb quantum energy from Super-Adaptoid in their battle, so it is at least possible.

(huh, apparently flood-protection let me go for now. At last =3)

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czarny_samael666

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#56  Edited By czarny_samael666
@Kyle_Dornez said:

@czarny_samael666 said:

4.No, until she will show that. Her showings with QB aren't even close to Quasar's.

But she did absorb quantum energy from Super-Adaptoid in their battle, so it is at least possible.

(huh, apparently flood-protection let me go for now. At last =3)

Quantum energy and not in way Quasar is drainning energy.
 
About Iron Man, I've found some scans, but I've didn't read these comics:
First happened much before Extremies Armor:
IM vs. Mentallo p1
IM vs. Mentallo p1
IM vs. Mentallo p2
IM vs. Mentallo p2
IM vs. Mentallo p3
IM vs. Mentallo p3
 
 
And this is Extremis:
TP immunity p1
TP immunity p1
TP immunity p2
TP immunity p2
TP immunity p3
TP immunity p3
According to what I see, it would be easier to use technopaty to mindr@&e him than telepathy.
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Veitha

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#57  Edited By Veitha

@czarny_samael666 said:

4.No, until she will show that. Her showings with QB aren't even close to Quasar's.

This is from marvel.com: "Phyla has superhuman strength. She can fire energy blasts and fly. She also acts like an "energy sponge," absorbing any energy attacks directed at her and returning them as energy blasts. She has cosmic awareness and is a proficient fighter". So she can absorb energy also without the Quantum Bands. With them she has got the same powers of Quasar, it doesn't matter if she hasn't got the same talents(she has been Quasar just for a while) because the Bands give the same powers to every owner. If Quasar can absorb energy, Phyla can also absorb energy. So she can beat Ms.Marvel soon and then she can attack Stark. And if he attacks telepaths, he won't be able to beat them quickly: Moondragon is also a poweful telekinetik and Mantis has got precog, pirokinesis, biokinesis. And they can manipulate Avengers's mind while they fight Stark and they can make his friends to attack him.

@czarny_samael666 said:

1.But why, Iron Fist for example, should allow him to do that? .

This isn't a point. If Drax wants to fight Rulk, he'll fight Rulk for the same reason that we have coupled Gamora and Valkyrie . And if Iron Fist would try to stop him, he would have just to cut off is head.

@czarny_samael666 said:

2.And Valkyrie is much stronger and has better experience than Gamora. Dragonfang can take her out, if she will lend a strike on her.

Gamora has got Godslayer,and With it in her possession Gamora has slain vastly powerful entities. So if Dragonfang can take her out(I don't think so 'cause of her healing factor) the same can be said for Gamora and her Godslayer. Superhuman strenght doesn't matter, Gamora has beaten enemies stronger than her like Thanos and Magus, so she can beat easily Valkirie.

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czarny_samael666

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#58  Edited By czarny_samael666
@Veitha said:

@czarny_samael666 said:

4.No, until she will show that. Her showings with QB aren't even close to Quasar's.

This is from marvel.com: "Phyla has superhuman strength. She can fire energy blasts and fly. She also acts like an "energy sponge," absorbing any energy attacks directed at her and returning them as energy blasts. She has cosmic awareness and is a proficient fighter". So she can absorb energy also without the Quantum Bands. With them she has got the same powers of Quasar, it doesn't matter if she hasn't got the same talents(she has been Quasar just for a while) because the Bands give the same powers to every owner. If Quasar can absorb energy, Phyla can also absorb energy. So she can beat Ms.Marvel soon and then she can attack Stark. And if he attacks telepaths, he won't be able to beat them quickly: Moondragon is also a poweful telekinetik and Mantis has got precog, pirokinesis, biokinesis. And they can manipulate Avengers's mind while they fight Stark and they can make his friends to attack him.

@czarny_samael666 said:

1.But why, Iron Fist for example, should allow him to do that? .

This isn't a point. If Drax wants to fight Rulk, he'll fight Rulk for the same reason that we have coupled Gamora and Valkyrie . And if Iron Fist would try to stop him, he would have just to cut off is head.

@czarny_samael666 said:

2.And Valkyrie is much stronger and has better experience than Gamora. Dragonfang can take her out, if she will lend a strike on her.

Gamora has got Godslayer,and With it in her possession Gamora has slain vastly powerful entities. So if Dragonfang can take her out(I don't think so 'cause of her healing factor) the same can be said for Gamora and her Godslayer. Superhuman strenght doesn't matter, Gamora has beaten enemies stronger than her like Thanos and Magus, so she can beat easily Valkirie.

1.We have coupled Gamora and Valkyria, becuase they are similar and they have similar place in their teams. Gamora and Valkyrie are using magical swords and they are very skilled in this. Drax and Rulk aren't similar. Current Drax is a fast guy with knives who is based on skills. Rulk is brute, like Groot. Iron Fist is also a fast guy, fast enough to fight with Gorgon, who is much faster than Drax. But I am intrested in this fight, so I've already made small thread about it. 
 
2.I agree that their weapons can be considered as similar ones, but saying that she can take Valkyrie easily isn't correct. We candebate about final outcome, but it won't be easy for either of them.

4.Bands aren't Mjolnir, it matters how good are using them You are. Some people even die just by wearing them, others like Annihilus can't control them at all. Ms. Marvel can do the same thing. And show me Phylla winning with someone in Carol's class.
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Skaddix

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#59  Edited By Skaddix

Val's sword is magic besides its not like you can compare the heat of the sun to getting slashed. Not the same at all in terms of physics.

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ThatThorFan

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#60  Edited By ThatThorFan

Groot and Rocket Raccoon can take the Avengers alone.

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Greendevil

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#61  Edited By Greendevil

@ThatThorFan said:

Groot and Rocket Raccoon can take the Avengers alone.

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vance_astro

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#62  Edited By vance_astro  Moderator

Avengers.

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Veitha

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#63  Edited By Veitha

@czarny_samael666:

1. This is a battle, so the characters will fight using the best tactic, not assonance. Starlord would send immediately Drax against Rulk because Drax is the right one to stop him. And I don't think that Ironfist can beat Drax.

2. Godslayer has slain Thanos and Magus, so Gamora can use it to take Valkirie. And Gamora is also enough fast to avoid her attacks.

3. She's used energy absorbion against the Super Adaptoid, that was over Carol's class(it had a lot of Avengers' powers, including the powers of Wasp, Vision and Captain Marvel).

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Kyle_Dornez

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#64  Edited By Kyle_Dornez

@Veitha said:

1. This is a battle, so the characters will fight using the best tactic, not assonance. Starlord would send immediately Drax against Rulk because Drax is the right one to stop him. And I don't think that Ironfist can beat Drax.

Unfortunately GotG are kinda low on "tactic" part. Their tactical genius is a racoon. IIRC, most of the time everyone does what he\she does best on their own. Peters authority and reputation were severely damaged already... So, IMO, it will go somehow like this:

Star Lord:Guardians, scramble! - and then Drax goes for Rulks throat (as obviously most dangerous non-flyer), Warlock starts charging uber-magical nuke, that will solve everything, Gamora goes for Val, 'cause two chicks with swords in one fight will do that eventually (otherwise she'll protect Warlock, as squishy caster and her one-time love interest). Groot announces that he is Groot and grows into huge distraction. Moondragon with Phyla team-up and start picking out Avengers one by one, and Major Victory meanwhile tries to settle things with Cap peacefully, trying not to collapse all time-space in a paradox by hitting Caps shield against itself...

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Veitha

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#65  Edited By Veitha

@Kyle_Dornez said:

@Veitha said:

1. This is a battle, so the characters will fight using the best tactic, not assonance. Starlord would send immediately Drax against Rulk because Drax is the right one to stop him. And I don't think that Ironfist can beat Drax.

Unfortunately GotG are kinda low on "tactic" part. Their tactical genius is a racoon. IIRC, most of the time everyone does what he\she does best on their own. Peters authority and reputation were severely damaged already... So, IMO, it will go somehow like this:

Star Lord:Guardians, scramble! - and then Drax goes for Rulks throat (as obviously most dangerous non-flyer), Warlock starts charging uber-magical nuke, that will solve everything, Gamora goes for Val, 'cause two chicks with swords in one fight will do that eventually (otherwise she'll protect Warlock, as squishy caster and her one-time love interest). Groot announces that he is Groot and grows into huge distraction. Moondragon with Phyla team-up and start picking out Avengers one by one, and Major Victory meanwhile tries to settle things with Cap peacefully, trying not to collapse all time-space in a paradox by hitting Caps shield against itself...

They may not be the best in terms of tactics, but they saved the world more times than the Avengers did in proportion to their publishing history by following the tactics Starlord and Rocket Racoon. but I think your simulation of a battle can be quite rational and correct. But you forgot Mantis, and I think that she is one of the most dangerous members of the Guardians.

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czarny_samael666

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#66  Edited By czarny_samael666
@Skaddix said:

Val's sword is magic besides its not like you can compare the heat of the sun to getting slashed. Not the same at all in terms of physics.

Agree. It won't be easy for either of them.
 
@Veitha said:

@czarny_samael666:

1. This is a battle, so the characters will fight using the best tactic, not assonance. Starlord would send immediately Drax against Rulk because Drax is the right one to stop him. And I don't think that Ironfist can beat Drax.

2. Godslayer has slain Thanos and Magus, so Gamora can use it to take Valkirie. And Gamora is also enough fast to avoid her attacks.

3. She's used energy absorbion against the Super Adaptoid, that was over Carol's class(it had a lot of Avengers' powers, including the powers of Wasp, Vision and Captain Marvel).


1.You're syaing it, like Star Lord would be the only tactic-tank on the field. Iron Man >>> Star Lord in tactic. Acctually almost every Avenger from this team was once a battlefield-leader. Iron Man - ex-director od SHIELD. Cap - leader of incarnations of Avengers, Thor - king of Asgard, Hawkeye - leader of West Coast Avengers, Black Panther - former leader of Fantactic Four and king of Wakanda, Rulk - experienced soldier, general; Carol Danvers - leader of Mighty Avengers, experienced soldier, Brunhilda - leader of Valkyries. I don't know if SW or IF ever were a leaders, but this group is levels above GoG in this area. 
And Iron Man is walking computer. He has one miunte to make a tactic and he can do it faster than Star Lord. Iron Fist isn't slower than Drax, possibly faster
(if You disagree, answer on this thread, sine it is a very intresting fight IMO:
:http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles/7/drax-vs-iron-fist-black-panther/682304/?page=1#div_shout_post_7828554)
2.Yes and Dragonfang can kill Gamora. It comes down to fighting skills. 
3.Over her class? Based on what exaclty?  And how it will be an effective attack against energy drainer? I've read that battle, Adaptoid was only tricked, he wasn't outmuscled/overpowered. 
 
And another one thing - what stops Iron Man from using omnidirectional attack combined with Thor's weather control and Rulk's thunderclap? In this way, everybody besides Warlock (Thor will go with Mjolnir to hold his energy attack between them), Groot and Phylla are on their knees from the start of battle. They will be an easy targets for Hawkeye, Spider Woman and Iron Man. 
 
 
Thor adn Ms. Marvel holds GoG. Barton, Spider Woman and Iron Man finish other Guadians from distance (including Groot,Gamora and Drax). Rulk holds Phylla physcially, Iron Fist KO her by his... fist. Val kills Adam by Dragonfang/Mjolnir drains his magic energy. 
 
@Kyle_Dornez said:

@Veitha said:

1. This is a battle, so the characters will fight using the best tactic, not assonance. Starlord would send immediately Drax against Rulk because Drax is the right one to stop him. And I don't think that Ironfist can beat Drax.

Unfortunately GotG are kinda low on "tactic" part. Their tactical genius is a racoon. IIRC, most of the time everyone does what he\she does best on their own. Peters authority and reputation were severely damaged already... So, IMO, it will go somehow like this:

Star Lord:Guardians, scramble! - and then Drax goes for Rulks throat (as obviously most dangerous non-flyer), Warlock starts charging uber-magical nuke, that will solve everything, Gamora goes for Val, 'cause two chicks with swords in one fight will do that eventually (otherwise she'll protect Warlock, as squishy caster and her one-time love interest). Groot announces that he is Groot and grows into huge distraction. Moondragon with Phyla team-up and start picking out Avengers one by one, and Major Victory meanwhile tries to settle things with Cap peacefully, trying not to collapse all time-space in a paradox by hitting Caps shield against itself...


You forgot to say in the end:
"... and this all can happen only if You will swap Avengers with stupid Zombies/ bots from Counter Strike" ;-P
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Kyle_Dornez

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#67  Edited By Kyle_Dornez

@Veitha said:

But you forgot Mantis, and I think that she is one of the most dangerous members of the Guardians.

As I said earlier, I don't know all that much about Mantis - I picked up comics cosmic only during Annihilation, and never saw any badass feats from her, mostly low-precog and TP. (but persuading Warlock and others to join was pretty impressive)

It's more difficult to say about Avengers - if GotG nearly have no leader, they have THREE leaders - Captain, Tony and Black Panther. As czarny_samael666 pointed out, Iron Man can and will use missiles, T'Challa will try to do something clever with vibranium, and Cap most likely to give orders and then charge (to stall Drax, for example). Thor will rain destruction from the sky, and Carol, Iron Fist, Spider-Woman and Hawkey just charge, I think - but this is very rough draft...

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Veitha

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#68  Edited By Veitha

@czarny_samael666:

1. Thus the presence of the best tacticians in the avengers will prevent Drax to fight Rulk? And what will the Avengers do, they will attack all Drax for not allow him to bring Rulk ...?

2. Gamora is faster than Valkirie, she's fast enough to fight Magus and Thanos. Gamora can beat Valkirie.

3. Superadaptoid has got the powers of various avengers, including the Vision and Captain Marvel's ones, so it is definetely over Carol's class. And Quasar has fought against an army of the phalanx using unloaded quantum bands, she's also over Ms.Marvel's class.

Quasar constructs and Warlock shields would stop their attacks. And.... what stops Mantis and Moondragon from take control over their minds? They need just a moment to do it and they together have take control over Thanos' mind so it won't be difficult to take control over Avengers' ones.

How can Valkirie even close to Warlock? She's not on his level, he's too strong for her. He fought Vulcan that is a better energy manipulator than Thor, so Mjolnir energy absorbtion won't be effective on him.

Quasar has got superstrenght. Even if Rulk can break her shields - I don't think that he can, especially considering that she can fly away from him and Drax wouldn't allow him to attack her - how can IronFist KO her? She's got superstrenght, she can resist to Danny.

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Veitha

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#69  Edited By Veitha

@Kyle_Dornez: Mantis has one shotted Thor, and she's beaten WonderMan, Vision, Hawkeye and Scarlet at the same time before she gained many powerups like telepathy, empathy, biokinesis(She has altered the bio-chemical of Groot using her powers), precog and pyrokinesis(she's burnt Groot with a thought). These are just some of her feats.

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czarny_samael666

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#70  Edited By czarny_samael666
@Veitha said:

@czarny_samael666:

1. Thus the presence of the best tacticians in the avengers will prevent Drax to fight Rulk? And what will the Avengers do, they will attack all Drax for not allow him to bring Rulk ...?

2. Gamora is faster than Valkirie, she's fast enough to fight Magus and Thanos. Gamora can beat Valkirie.

3. Superadaptoid has got the powers of various avengers, including the Vision and Captain Marvel's ones, so it is definetely over Carol's class. And Quasar has fought against an army of the phalanx using unloaded quantum bands, she's also over Ms.Marvel's class.

Quasar constructs and Warlock shields would stop their attacks. And.... what stops Mantis and Moondragon from take control over their minds? They need just a moment to do it and they together have take control over Thanos' mind so it won't be difficult to take control over Avengers' ones.

How can Valkirie even close to Warlock? She's not on his level, he's too strong for her. He fought Vulcan that is a better energy manipulator than Thor, so Mjolnir energy absorbtion won't be effective on him.

Quasar has got superstrenght. Even if Rulk can break her shields - I don't think that he can, especially considering that she can fly away from him and Drax wouldn't allow him to attack her - how can IronFist KO her? She's got superstrenght, she can resist to Danny.

1.Simple - they put someone faster than Drax to hold him and let Rulk attack Groot. But it won't come to this. I've already told You what they will really do.
2.How is Magus and Thanos really faster than Valkyrie? Not too mention that they also won't fight with eash other.
3.What does it matter what powers does he have, if he tried to use Quasar's and he lost because as a robot he wasn't able to use it in right way? Phylla didn't simply deestroy him thanks to greater power, but because she used a good tactic. How can this battle be a prove against anyone else? She can't repeat that to Carol. 
How taking out Phalanx is comparable in any way to fighting with Ms. Marvel? Remember - Carol needs only to hold her. And she will do it easily. 
4.Shoe me Phylla doing something that would prove it. At least tell me in which comic she used that tactic.
 When Warlock block anyobdy in this way? Plus Thor will take him from others, if Warlock won't put all his power against Thor, he will go down fast.
Iron Man. Iron Man takes them out instantly. 
5.Valkyrie can do it, because Thor will already be on his move against Warlock. And Adam won't take them both at once.
6.Drax is already dead in this moment of fight. You're assuming that Ms. Marvel and Iron Man won't hold her. I don't see what proves that they can't.  Iron Fist Kod Skaar IIRC.
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Kyle_Dornez

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#71  Edited By Kyle_Dornez

@Veitha said:

How can Valkirie even close to Warlock? She's not on his level, he's too strong for her. He fought Vulcan that is a better energy manipulator than Thor, so Mjolnir energy absorbtion won't be effective on him.

Quasar has got superstrenght. Even if Rulk can break her shields - I don't think that he can, especially considering that she can fly away from him and Drax wouldn't allow him to attack her - how can IronFist KO her? She's got superstrenght, she can resist to Danny.

Well, Rulk will almost certainly break her constructs in first encounter - it will take time to adjust to his strength. And there's still possibility of energy absorbtion from his side. Also, yes, Adam survived fight with Vulcan, but only by skin of his teeth. Mjolnirs absorption will be effective against his attacks, but not super-effective, pardon my pokemon-speak.

@czarny_samael666 said:

You forgot to say in the end: "... and this all can happen only if You will swap Avengers with stupid Zombies/ bots from Counter Strike" ;-P

Headache limits powers of my imagination, but I'll try to run one more simulation...Oh, wait, you already did that for me, thanx. Let's see, what's wrong with it.

@czarny_samael666 said:

1.Simple - they put someone faster than Drax to hold him and let Rulk attack Groot. But it won't come to this. I've already told You what they will really do.

Maybe, but they don't really have anyone fast enough. Maybe Spider-Womans venom can slow him down, but he survived Annihilation wave and god knows what crap that bugs injected him with, so I would not rely on poisons here.

2.How is Magus and Thanos really faster than Valkyrie? Not too mention that they also won't fight with eash other.

Well to fight Magus means to be ready to react at speed of thought - because one thought is all it would take him to screw you completely.

3.What does it matter what powers does he have, if he tried to use Quasar's and he lost because as a robot he wasn't able to use it in right way? Phylla didn't simply deestroy him thanks to greater power, but because she used a good tactic. How can this battle be a prove against anyone else? She can't repeat that to Carol. How taking out Phalanx is comparable in any way to fighting with Ms. Marvel? Remember - Carol needs only to hold her. And she will do it easily.

Now why exactly that would be easy? Last time I checked Phyla had huge golden poker called Quantum Sword, and she ain't afraid to use it.

4.Shoe me Phylla doing something that would prove it. At least tell me in which comic she used that tactic. When Warlock block anyobdy in this way? Plus Thor will take him from others, if Warlock won't put all his power against Thor, he will go down fast. Iron Man. Iron Man takes them out instantly.

Well that's exactly the tactic she used against Super-Adaptoid (Annihilation Conquest Quasar #4, p13-14) - she overwhelmed him\it with horde of imaginative constructs and then planted logic bomb that took him\it down.

5.Valkyrie can do it, because Thor will already be on his move against Warlock. And Adam won't take them both at once.

I believe he's quite capable of multi-tasking. And IIRC, Val can't fly without pegasus or something, so she'll most likely will be reduced to throwing rocks at hovering above her Warlock.

6.Drax is already dead in this moment of fight. You're assuming that Ms. Marvel and Iron Man won't hold her. I don't see what proves that they can't. Iron Fist Kod Skaar IIRC.

And you're assuming that teeps won't hold them, or at least Ms. Marvel

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#72  Edited By Veitha

@Kyle_Dornez: I agree with everything you said except what you said about Quasar and Rulk: Quasar can fly so I don't see how Rulk could get close enough to her to break her constructs.

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ThatThorFan

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#73  Edited By ThatThorFan

@SpiderMan100: Rocket Raccoon could kill Hawkeye and Spider Woman. Don't just underestimate him because he is a raccoon. His weaponry is pretty impressive. Could give Captain America some trouble too.

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czarny_samael666

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#74  Edited By czarny_samael666
@Kyle_Dornez said:

@czarny_samael666 said:

1.Simple - they put someone faster than Drax to hold him and let Rulk attack Groot. But it won't come to this. I've already told You what they will really do.

Maybe, but they don't really have anyone fast enough. Maybe Spider-Womans venom can slow him down, but he survived Annihilation wave and god knows what crap that bugs injected him with, so I would not rely on poisons here.

2.How is Magus and Thanos really faster than Valkyrie? Not too mention that they also won't fight with eash other.

Well to fight Magus means to be ready to react at speed of thought - because one thought is all it would take him to screw you completely.

3.What does it matter what powers does he have, if he tried to use Quasar's and he lost because as a robot he wasn't able to use it in right way? Phylla didn't simply deestroy him thanks to greater power, but because she used a good tactic. How can this battle be a prove against anyone else? She can't repeat that to Carol. How taking out Phalanx is comparable in any way to fighting with Ms. Marvel? Remember - Carol needs only to hold her. And she will do it easily.

Now why exactly that would be easy? Last time I checked Phyla had huge golden poker called Quantum Sword, and she ain't afraid to use it.

4.Shoe me Phylla doing something that would prove it. At least tell me in which comic she used that tactic. When Warlock block anyobdy in this way? Plus Thor will take him from others, if Warlock won't put all his power against Thor, he will go down fast. Iron Man. Iron Man takes them out instantly.

Well that's exactly the tactic she used against Super-Adaptoid (Annihilation Conquest Quasar #4, p13-14) - she overwhelmed him\it with horde of imaginative constructs and then planted logic bomb that took him\it down.

5.Valkyrie can do it, because Thor will already be on his move against Warlock. And Adam won't take them both at once.

I believe he's quite capable of multi-tasking. And IIRC, Val can't fly without pegasus or something, so she'll most likely will be reduced to throwing rocks at hovering above her Warlock.

6.Drax is already dead in this moment of fight. You're assuming that Ms. Marvel and Iron Man won't hold her. I don't see what proves that they can't. Iron Fist Kod Skaar IIRC.

And you're assuming that teeps won't hold them, or at least Ms. Marvel

1.There is already thread about that. I hope we can deal with Drax's speed there. And for now most people doubts in his speed. 
2.Depends how fights look like actually. And when Gamora was fighting with Magus in Realm of Kings (WoK? I am not sure...), he was going to die because he didn't want to be bothered by GoG. He wasn't really killed.
3.Because as I've said - Carol won't try to kill her, just to hold her. I am not saying that Marvel will defeat Phylla easily, no at all. I am saying that she can hold her easily. 
You've to admitt that it is a difference...
4.It isn't the same. Adaptoid couldn't absorb them, because his mech-brain wasn't suited for that task. It wasa problem for him to repeat her moves, because he doesn't have an imagination (crap for me, but ok..). 
5.Depends how battle will look like. When Warlock will be GoG's last fighting character, he will be putted on Earth few times for sure. And Carol can borrow Dragonfang from her or use Gamora's Godslayer.
6."Teeps?" I am sorry, IDK what does it mean (English isn't my first language, as You can see). :(
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#75  Edited By Kyle_Dornez

@czarny_samael666 said:

1.There is already thread about that. I hope we can deal with Drax's speed there. And for now most people doubts in his speed.

Ok, let's leave it there, though I believe that he is at least faster than any unaltered human.

2.Depends how fights look like actually. And when Gamora was fighting with Magus in Realm of Kings (WoK? I am not sure...), he was going to die because he didn't want to be bothered by GoG. He wasn't really killed.

That's exactly what I've meant - he pulled that illusion right out of his ass I mean with a shap of his fingers, of course =3

3.Because as I've said - Carol won't try to kill her, just to hold her. I am not saying that Marvel will defeat Phylla easily, no at all. I am saying that she can hold her easily. You've to admitt that it is a difference...
4.It isn't the same. Adaptoid couldn't absorb them, because his mech-brain wasn't suited for that task. It wasa problem for him to repeat her moves, because he doesn't have an imagination (crap for me, but ok..).

Well, I still don't really understand how that will protect Carol from various sharp objects, that Phy will project upon her... And for 4) You missed my point - she clearly demonstrated ability to spam with force constructs, so without Phalanx shield to limit her powers, Quasar quite possibly can just flood colloseum with projected army.

6."Teeps?" I am sorry, IDK what does it mean (English isn't my first language, as You can see). :(

Same here, but I'm proudly boasting my IELTS 8 grade to everyone for months already =3

"Teeps" is derivative from "TP" - as in "Telepaths". (I believe that was Babylon 5 slang, or something...) So "Teeks" would be "Telekinetics" accordingly.

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Veitha

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#76  Edited By Veitha

@Kyle_Dornez said:

@czarny_samael666 said:

1.There is already thread about that. I hope we can deal with Drax's speed there. And for now most people doubts in his speed.

Ok, let's leave it there, though I believe that he is at least faster than any unaltered human.

although he is slower than Iron Fist, Drax was still heartbreaking to Thanos with his bare hands and has a healing factor, he would beat IronFist.@Kyle_Dornez said:

@czarny_samael666 said:

2.Depends how fights look like actually. And when Gamora was fighting with Magus in Realm of Kings (WoK? I am not sure...), he was going to die because he didn't want to be bothered by GoG. He wasn't really killed.

That's exactly what I've meant - he pulled that illusion right out of his ass I mean with a shap of his fingers, of course =3

Right . Gamora is faster than Val and she's got a portentous healing factor and a sword that has used to slain characters stronger than Valkirie. She can definetely kill Brunilde.

@Kyle_Dornez said:

@czarny_samael666 said:

3.Because as I've said - Carol won't try to kill her, just to hold her. I am not saying that Marvel will defeat Phylla easily, no at all. I am saying that she can hold her easily. You've to admitt that it is a difference...
4.It isn't the same. Adaptoid couldn't absorb them, because his mech-brain wasn't suited for that task. It wasa problem for him to repeat her moves, because he doesn't have an imagination (crap for me, but ok..).

Well, I still don't really understand how that will protect Carol from various sharp objects, that Phy will project upon her... And for 4) You missed my point - she clearly demonstrated ability to spam with force constructs, so without Phalanx shield to limit her powers, Quasar quite possibly can just flood colloseum with projected army.

Carol can't easily hold her: Phyla, as @Kyle_Dornez said, has created an army of constructs of virtually indestructible quantum energy, nothing that Carol can stand, and her shields are enough strong to fight people stronger than Carol.

@Kyle_Dornez said:

6."Teeps?" I am sorry, IDK what does it mean (English isn't my first language, as You can see). :(

Same here, but I proudly boasting my IELTS 8 grade to everyone for months already =3 "Teeps" is derivative from "TP" - as in "Telepaths"

English isn't my first language, too :) I thought you had misspelled "Keeps" :D

But you're right: telepaths will give big problems to the Avengers, I think that they could destroy the most of them

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czarny_samael666

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#77  Edited By czarny_samael666
@Kyle_Dornez said:

@czarny_samael666 said:

2.Depends how fights look like actually. And when Gamora was fighting with Magus in Realm of Kings (WoK? I am not sure...), he was going to die because he didn't want to be bothered by GoG. He wasn't really killed.

That's exactly what I've meant - he pulled that illusion right out of his ass I mean with a shap of his fingers, of course =3

3.Because as I've said - Carol won't try to kill her, just to hold her. I am not saying that Marvel will defeat Phylla easily, no at all. I am saying that she can hold her easily. You've to admitt that it is a difference...
4.It isn't the same. Adaptoid couldn't absorb them, because his mech-brain wasn't suited for that task. It wasa problem for him to repeat her moves, because he doesn't have an imagination (crap for me, but ok..).

Well, I still don't really understand how that will protect Carol from various sharp objects, that Phy will project upon her... And for 4) You missed my point - she clearly demonstrated ability to spam with force constructs, so without Phalanx shield to limit her powers, Quasar quite possibly can just flood colloseum with projected army.

6."Teeps?" I am sorry, IDK what does it mean (English isn't my first language, as You can see). :(

Same here, but I'm proudly boasting my IELTS 8 grade to everyone for months already =3

"Teeps" is derivative from "TP" - as in "Telepaths". (I believe that was Babylon 5 slang, or something...) So "Teeks" would be "Telekinetics" accordingly.

2. ;-) It was Magus after all, it didn't suprise me too much actually.
3.Speed IMO, but Carol's fans belives that she can absorb them by touching them. I know she can absorb energy from any solid object, so I wouldn't be so suprised too. Yet, I am not an expert about her powers, so I am not sure that she can also absorb normal energy blasts. Yet, I am sure that she can absorb constructs. 
4.It was her last hope. She won't start with this. By this logic, I can say that Carol turns into Binary instantly (she showed that she can do it in Secret Avangers #28)
5.Thanks, only time when I can learn something currenlty is CV, since even in most games currently I see Polish-language mods/verions of games.
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Kyle_Dornez

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#78  Edited By Kyle_Dornez

@czarny_samael666 said:

4.It was her last hope. She won't start with this. By this logic, I can say that Carol turns into Binary instantly (she showed that she can do it in Secret Avangers #28)

/took a peek at Secret Avengers #28/

Well... I think using your imagination to cut people up with a field of swords is a bit easier than going Super-Saiyan on a Cosmic Force... Richard Rider for example was very creative with his constructs practically minutes after Wendell gave him Quantum Bands. And Phy does love to project herself some swords...

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#79  Edited By Greendevil

Excellent discussion lads. My popcorn bowl got PWNED cuz i have read every single post in this thread. Excellent arguments from both teams!

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czarny_samael666

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#80  Edited By czarny_samael666
@Kyle_Dornez said:

@czarny_samael666 said:

4.It was her last hope. She won't start with this. By this logic, I can say that Carol turns into Binary instantly (she showed that she can do it in Secret Avangers #28)

/took a peek at Secret Avengers #28/

Well... I think using your imagination to cut people up with a field of swords is a bit easier than going Super-Saiyan on a Cosmic Force... Richard Rider for example was very creative with his constructs practically minutes after Wendell gave him Quantum Bands. And Phy does love to project herself some swords...

Cirumctances were similar, so I don'tbelive that either will do it. Yet, I don't see how Phylla would be able to stand more than few seconds with person with strength, speed and enregy-drainning aibilities against Carol. And she still has to hit Carol, even if she will be in Ms. Marvel form, which won't be easy. Remember, Carol can play with her for long and she is there only to hold her.
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#81  Edited By Skaddix

@Kyle_Dornez said:

@czarny_samael666 said:

4.It was her last hope. She won't start with this. By this logic, I can say that Carol turns into Binary instantly (she showed that she can do it in Secret Avangers #28)

/took a peek at Secret Avengers #28/

Well... I think using your imagination to cut people up with a field of swords is a bit easier than going Super-Saiyan on a Cosmic Force... Richard Rider for example was very creative with his constructs practically minutes after Wendell gave him Quantum Bands. And Phy does love to project herself some swords...

too be fair who does not like sword constructs? Swords are always bad@ss in fiction more so then guns

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Kyle_Dornez

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#82  Edited By Kyle_Dornez

@czarny_samael666 said:Cirumctances were similar, so I don'tbelive that either will do it. Yet, I don't see how Phylla would be able to stand more than few seconds with person with strength, speed and enregy-drainning aibilities against Carol.

But Phylla actually was Captain Marvel before she got Quantum Bands - and as daughter of actual Mar-Vell she basically has the same powers, here take a look at her file from Xandar:

No Caption Provided
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czarny_samael666

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#83  Edited By czarny_samael666
@Kyle_Dornez said:

@czarny_samael666 said:Cirumctances were similar, so I don'tbelive that either will do it. Yet, I don't see how Phylla would be able to stand more than few seconds with person with strength, speed and enregy-drainning aibilities against Carol.

But Phylla actually was Captain Marvel before she got Quantum Bands - and as daughter of actual Mar-Vell she basically has the same powers, here take a look at her file from Xandar:

She gained and lost Nega Bands  in Cap Marvel (genis) series. She doesn't have MV's powers without the bands.
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lanebad6

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#84  Edited By lanebad6

Does this thor have the OF?

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Bo88gdan

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#86  Edited By Bo88gdan

Avengers

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Iragexcudder

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#87  Edited By Iragexcudder

Adam Warlock solos. If you honestly think the avengers can win here, you're dull witted.

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#88  Edited By bob808

Guardians of the Galaxy wins

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New_World_Order

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#89  Edited By New_World_Order

Could go either way possibly.

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@tparks: Good breakdown I pretty much agree with you.

@Iragexcudder: No, just no. Sorry bud

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#91  Edited By vance_astro  Moderator
@Greendevil said:
  • Adam vs Thor
  • Drax vs Rulk
  • Phylla vs Ms Marvel
  • Gamora vs Ironman
  • Quill vs Rogers
  • Vance vs Panther
  • Rocket vs Hawkeye
  • Groot vs Valkyrie
  • Mantis vs Ironfist
  • MD vs Spiderwoman
1.Tough one. It's hard to say Adam Warlock would beat Thor, I haven't seen any feats from current Adam that would suggest he can take the Thunder God.
2.Rulk would destroy the Destroyer. He's killed more powerful beings with minimal effort.
3.Another tough one. I don't know what version of Phylla we are using though. Captain Marvel? Martyr? or Quasar? Like with Warlock against Thor though it's hard to say if she can beat Ms.Marvel because she lacks the feats. Ms.Marvel is an energy absorber and most versions of Phylla's abilities are completely energy based.
4.Iron Man would walk all over Gamora.
5.Star-Lord is equipped well enough that he could beat Captain America.
6.Black Panther would need prep to beat Major Victory. His blasts do alot of damage and he wears an adamantium containment suit.
7.Same with Rocket Raccon he just has far better equipment than Hawkeye.
8.This one is tough too because Groot is alot stronger than Valkyrie but she's superior to him in mostly every other way.
9.Mantis has more ways of taking down Iron Fist than vice versa
10.Spider-Woman doesn't stand a chance against Moondragon
 
This could definitely go either way overall. They are fairly evenly matched teams.
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#92  Edited By vance_astro  Moderator
@Iragexcudder said:
Adam Warlock solos. If you honestly think the avengers can win here, you're dull witted.
Posts like this are completely unnecessary and against the rules.
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#93  Edited By johnjoe66

@Vance Astro: you tell him bro!

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#94  Edited By nut34

First: this fight is unfair because the gotg have all their most powerful members, and the avengers dont have hulk (who could destroy half of the guardians) sentry, hercules...

But even without them the avengers can take this. Cap is a master tactician who would ideate a plan to be in superiority. Iron man just take out the telepaths with his repulsors. Thor, valkirye and rulk fight adam, drax and the one with quantum bands. the other avengers can take the rest of the guardians. This battle goes for the avengers. AND DONT TELL ME THAT A FCKNG RACCON WITH A GUN CAN TAKE AN AVENGER

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THORSON

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wouldn't adam be a lot of trouble for THOR?

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robertloucksjr

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Mantis taking down Thor or Wonder Man is PIS. Her dad, Libra, took her down right she dropped most of the Avengers after that in two moves. One thunder clap and she is unconscious with bleeding ears.

Current Drax is not taking down Rulk. He could barely take down the Blood Brothers.

I don't really know anything about current Adam Warlock except that he is a hardass. Thor does really well against Silver Surfer so I believe he has at least an even chance.

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i only see adam being a problem for the King!

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Adam and Thor would probably be the last men standing.

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69ball-z-deep

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who the f#%& is val?

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