Arkham Batman vs CW Damien Darhk

Batman is wearing his batsuit, Damien is as shown in the picture. Strictly H2H combat (no TK or magic attacks allowed from Damien). To the death or KO.

Who wins and why?

Batman

Batman Curbstomps.

Batman stomps, he beat Shiva, who gave Batman a good fight.

You should probably allow Damien to use his death touch. Also I am guessing batman isn't allowed to use gadgets?

No death touch? No TK? Batman bullies him. This isn't remotely fair.

@jashro44: From what I've seen, there are at least some (or at the very least an argument can be made) for CW Oliver taking Arkham Batman in H2H combat. Or is that solely with gear? Anyways, if it is the former, Damien is arguably Oliver's superior so why wouldn't he be able to compete here?

Batman seemed pretty underwhelming in Arkham Knight he might be too inconsistent...

With knowledge, Batman would win even with the TK and death touch. Batman dodges everything Damain throws at him as long as his TK is not 100% unavoidable and knocks out Damian with his relatively superhuman strength.

Batman is faster and more skilled, more weaponry as well. He can win with mid difficulty.

Arrow Darhk utilized his death touch in hand to hand pretty often. And while I don't know much about Arkham batman from what I've seen Nick and a few others are the only people that think Oliver can contend. Lots of people seem to argue Arkham batman stomps Oliver.

Arrow is nothing compared to Arkham Batman so that logic is fundamentally incorrect.

Batman is faster? Damian was pretty much teleporting with his speed and stopped a bullet mid air. Bruce doesn't even compare to that.

I don't think you should conflate reaction speed, travel speed and combat speed.

In terms of combat speed (since this is h2h), even as a rookie (pre-Arkham Origins), Bruce can take down three people in a single move:

And he beat Slade multiple times, Slade who defeated Tim Drake and subsequently took on him and Dick Grayson at the same time. Note, Drake is fast and strong enough to knock out five well built Joker thugs in a single move:

In regards to travel speed though, Batman has cleared eighteen feet before a man could raise his gun (corresponds with game mechanics where he jumps incredible distances):

And this as a rookie (pre-Arkham Origins).

@rogueshadow: There is a lot of scaling there. Regardless, taking multiple guys in a single move is a skill and agility feat. Damian is faster in movement as well as reflexes. The last scan again doesn't compare to this-

@rbt: I think it's a pretty direct line of reasoning. There are also scenes where he's training Tim and noting failures in his form and technique - it's very clear that Bruce is superior to Drake even if we disregard the fact he can beat Deathstroke who in turn can beat the snot out of Tim. And I regularly see people scaling for Arrow characters.

Can't Darhk teleport though? I'm guessing he's using magic in that gif (?) which I'd have thought would defeat the purpose of this thread.

What's his fastest feat of combat speed?

@rogueshadow:

I think it's a pretty direct line of reasoning. There are also scenes where he's training Tim and noting failures in his form and technique - it's very clear that Bruce is superior to Drake even if we disregard the fact he can beat Deathstroke who in turn can beat the snot out of Tim.

I don't doubt that Bruce is Tim's superior. My question is, why does it mean anything? Yes, Tim took out multiple opponents in one move, but that's not a speed feat. Its an agility and skill feat.

And I regularly see people scaling for Arrow characters.

Skill scaling. Not speed. Oliver fought and beat Darhk. Darhk is a bullet timer. So, Oliver is a bullet timer?

Can't Darhk teleport though?

He can, but he didn't teleport there. He needs to say some word out loud to teleport like he did in S4 mid season finale. Also, by the looks of it, Darhk was clearly in movement.

I'm guessing he's using magic in that gif (?) which I'd have thought would defeat the purpose of this thread.

I think Darhk is not allowed to use his TK and death touch. His stats remain the same. @nfactor1995 ?

What's his fastest feat of combat speed?

I don't think he has ever taken on fodders with his powers intact.

@rbt: Yes Darhk's stats and skill remain the same, he just can't death touch people or use TK. Because it's a H2H fight

• How is that not a feat of combat speed? He took out five guys in a single move, so under a second. That's a feat of extreme combat speed.
• I don't generally like to directly equate reactionary, i.e. bullet/arrow timing to combat speed unless you start to get into crazier, high street speed levels, like Iron Fist or Spider-Man who can literally dance between hails of bullets from dozens of attackers.
• I've seen people say he was teleporting in that instance in other threads, so I dunno.

@rogueshadow:

• How is that not a feat of combat speed? He took out five guys in a single move, so under a second. That's a feat of extreme combat speed.

No. It would have been a combat speed feat if he had taken them down one after another in same time. He didn't. Punching two guys at same time is not same as punching them one after another in same time. That is what you are trying to sell the feat as. Which it isn't.

I don't generally like to directly equate reactionary, i.e. bullet/arrow timing to combat speed unless you start to get into crazier, high street speed levels, like Iron Fist or Spider-Man who can literally dance between hails of bullets from dozens of attackers.

Reaction feats aren't just tracking something while it moves through the air. Arrow characters catch arrows. To do that they would have to move their arm extremely fast. Like Damian did when he stopped the bullet mid air.

• I've seen people say he was teleporting in that instance in other threads, so I dunno.

Don't know about that, but it wasn't the first instance of a top tier Arrow combatant doing something like that. Ra's did something very similar. And he definitely wasn't teleporting.

@rbt said:

@rogueshadow:

• How is that not a feat of combat speed? He took out five guys in a single move, so under a second. That's a feat of extreme combat speed.

No. It would have been a combat speed feat if he had taken them down one after another in same time. He didn't. Punching two guys at same time is not same as punching them one after another in same time. That is what you are trying to sell the feat as. Which it isn't.

I don't generally like to directly equate reactionary, i.e. bullet/arrow timing to combat speed unless you start to get into crazier, high street speed levels, like Iron Fist or Spider-Man who can literally dance between hails of bullets from dozens of attackers.

Reaction feats aren't just tracking something while it moves through the air. Arrow characters catch arrows. To do that they would have to move their arm extremely fast. Like Damian did when he stopped the bullet mid air.

• I've seen people say he was teleporting in that instance in other threads, so I dunno.

Don't know about that, but it wasn't the first instance of a top tier Arrow combatant doing something like that. Ra's did something very similar. And he definitely wasn't teleporting.

• I consider it even more impressive, he bypassed that and did it all at once before any of them could react, attacking from five places at once.
• I know what you're saying, but I on't like that line of logic, it just never follows in fiction. If that were the case you'd have a character like Hit-Girl easily blitzing Frank D'Amico who couldn't even react to a thrown projectile. Random comparison I know. Arrow characters pretty clearly aren't fighting at 329 fps. So there should be a division between reaction speed and combat speed. Basically, reaction speed is only pertinent against projectile weapons, not in h2h. Reaction - H2h - Travel, all distinct in my opinion, at least at this level.
• Clearing that distance in the time it took Thea to run there is no more impressive than rookie Bruce clearing eighteen feet in the time it took a man to raise his gun. That doesn't seem the same as the Darhk feat either, she had him straight in eyesight the whole time and the dude just popped up behind her, lol.

Arkham Batman is overrated. Darhk should win.

Ludicrous.

Damien's TK is legitimately 100% unavoidable, bullet-timing, and strong enough to casually stop an 80 ton armoured truck with one hand. Darhk at full power chokes Batman out with one hand, ragdolls him like a toy, or simply snaps his neck.

so just h2h, no TK magic but otherwise powers still intact? if that is so and he has gained the souls of a bunch of dead folks than probably damian due to strength and speed he gains once amped.

But if we are nerfing darhks connection to the totem completely and just basing it off of h2h skills/feats Batman stomps

@rogueshadow:

I consider it even more impressive, he bypassed that and did it all at once before any of them could react, attacking from five places at once.

I honestly don't see how its a combat speed feat. Is it impressive? Yes. But it shows how agile and skilled Tim is. We probably should agree to disagree on this one.

I know what you're saying, but I on't like that line of logic, it just never follows in fiction. If that were the case you'd have a character like Hit-Girl easily blitzing Frank D'Amico who couldn't even react to a thrown projectile. Random comparison I know. Arrow characters pretty clearly aren't fighting at 329 fps. So there should be a division between reaction speed and combat speed. Basically, reaction speed is only pertinent against projectile weapons, not in h2h. Reaction - H2h - Travel, all distinct in my opinion, at least at this level.

Catching arrows doesn't really mean that you can move as fast as an arrow when fighting. The only thing I take away from it is that they have better reflexes and should fight at faster pace than someone who is not capable of replicating that feat. Of course, its not necessary to give someone the win, but its something.

Clearing that distance in the time it took Thea to run there is no more impressive than rookie Bruce clearing eighteen feet in the time it took a man to raise his gun. That doesn't seem the same as the Darhk feat either, she had him straight in eyesight the whole time and the dude just popped up behind her, lol.

Thea did not really run there. Ra's covered over 25ft distance in the time Thea could take a couple steps. To give you an idea, this is the size of the room they were fighting in-

Regardless, Darhk's feat is even more impressive that this one. So, how fast Ra's was moving here is not really the point here. The only reason I posted it is to support the claim that Darhk indeed ran there, instead of teleporting.

Closing 18 ft in roughly a second is not even olympic level speed.

@rbt:

• Being able to attack from five places at once in under a second = combat speed in my book. Agree to disagree.
• I think I sort of agree with that.
• The gap between what Ra's is doing and Darhk is pretty huge to me, there's at least period of unaccounted for time with Ra's, Darhk basically pulls a Bugs Bunny and pops up. And given that he can teleport it sets more of a precedent than Ra's' feat.
• So 25 feet in the time it takes Thea to move a few steps vs 18 feet in the time it takes to raise a gun. I find Bruce's more impressive to be honest. Anyway, like you said it's not that relevant to this discussion.
• It takes well under a second to raise a gun to be honest, it actually takes a fraction of the time. Just try it with something of comparable weight.

Why are people even arguing about this? batman stomps.