Standard Gear unless it was specifically told by HeirToTheKingdom otherwise
Win is by KO, or incap or death or BFR
BFR is only allowed as a last ditch option
Morals apply to how each character usually acts
In-character
No preparation
No inhabitants are near
Basic knowledge on each other
Teams will be working perfectly together
Please refrain from posting your opinion on the match until it's done as this is a tournament match
Asked to be tagged for voting, or message for me to know to do so
Posting Order:
It goes team 1 member , then team 2, and back and forth. You don't post as one big post for both teams, but separate ones. So essentially debater 1 of team one posts, then debater 1 of team two posts, then debater 2 of team one posts, and then debate 2 of team two posts. It will go like that for the debate.
Man Thing is the tragic story of a scientist who recreated the Captain America Super Soldier Serum, but was force to take it when bad people came looking for him. After taking the serum, the scientist fell into the mystical swamp waters of the everglades, which happen to be the Nexus of Realities for Marvel. Serum combine with the Nexus mystical waters made one of Marvels most powerful beings, Man Thing. Man Thing is a lump of vegetable matter, connected to the planet. As guardian of the Nexus, he is privy to major events in Marvel, and has the power to deal with top notch demons in Marvel. Man Thing however is not very smart, mostly relying on guidance of others, and empathetic emotions into action. Though recent versions of Man Thing are brighter than his original.
Initial Thoughts
Man Thing and Son of Satan have worked together a few times, part of the same Midnight Sons group. Daimon like wise knows how to work with Man Thing. This makes for a strong team work factor. Biggest thing in this match is both our characters are heavy on the magical abilities. Son of Satan bringing the Soul Fire, and man thing the Burning Touch lol. Both of our characters are near indestructible, Man Thing being more of the tank with some hax, and Daimon being somewhat a tank, with a lot of hax. In this match you will find
I will leave Beatboks to say who Man Thing fights, as Daimon is the one guiding him to what target.
Goku (孫 悟空, Son Gokū), born Kakarot (カカロット, Kakarotto), is the main protagonist of the Dragon Ball metaseries created by Akira Toriyama. He is the adoptive grandson of Grandpa Gohan, the son of Bardock and Gine, the husband ofChi-Chi, the father of Gohan and Goten, the grandfather of Pan, and later the great-great-grandfather of Goku Jr. Cheerful, courageous and also a bit naive, Goku is a Saiyan originally sent to Earth as an infant with the mission to destroy it. However, an accident alters his memory, causing him to grow up pure-hearted and later become Earth's greatest defender, as well as the informal leader of the Z Fighters.[12] Throughout his life, he trains hard and strives to be the greatest warrior possible, while at the same time using his amazing strength and skills to uphold peace.[15]
- wiki
Logistics:
Massively planetary striking strength. (Able to punch through King Kai's planet, which had 10 times the Gravity of Earth, so it'd be over 100x Earths mass.)
Star Level Energy Projection. (Able to push back Cooler's strongest attack, Cooler was able to destroy stars casually. Surpassed Gohan who could push back a Solar System busting Kamehameha on his own.)
MFTL in Combat. (Able to blitz Nappa who dodged Piccolo's special beam cannon at close range, Piccolo's weaker blasts have reached the moon seemingly instantly. Able to react to people millions of times stronger than Nappa also.)
Master Martial Artist. (Surpasses 'God of Martial Arts' as a child, trained with other Gods, learned to sense the slightest changes in the atmosphere.)
Super Saiyan (Initial = 50x amp, Ascended = 2x Initial, Maximum = 4x Ascended.
Star Level Durability (Able to tank his own Kamehameha's and maintain hiws own attacks, every action has an equal and opposite reaction.)
Telekinesis.
Can read minds with a touch.
Can teleport.
Can use afterimage technique, Sense Life Energy and is a Combat Genius.
Daimon's base strength level is said to be the strength of a 100 men and with his dark soul he can further enhance that when needed.
Now let's be honest the strength of 100 men at best makes him a 40 tonner. However he can further augment his strength with anger and his darksoul
When enraged that 40 tons becomes 400
Letting his darksoul out increases it even further.
Durability
When it comes to durability very few in marvel below sky father have greater damage soak ( in fact the only one who comes to mind is Thanos). There are a few who would be their peers like Sentry and Surfer but really the difference in durability of all of these guys is negligible at best. One of the best examples of Helstrom's durability I can recall comes from the first Helstrom series where a demon specifically charged with taking him on by Satan blasts him with all he has and Daimon laughs off the attack with statements like it could be a 100,000 times more potent attack and it wouldn't bother him.
IWhen Daimon battled mind-star an "ethereal form" given power by Anubis Mind-star was able to briefly sever his ink to his trident which made him fall from well above the stratosphere to earth. That fall was with minimal harm and equates to above a 130,000 kg blow or 143 ton (in imperial) blow based on the height of the stratoshpere between 10 and 130 km.
Yes he had to direct his fall so that he struck straight on and not break his bones but that is still mighty durable. that mind you is without his ability to heal.
He is able to heal with but a touch, when he healed the seer Profeet it was from death to life anew, and he did it without even consciously choosing too. The energy just flowed from him when he wanted it done. Whatever injury Daimon does receive he is more than capable of healing himself from.
Force fields that can contain Blackheart and an entity possessed by Dormammu.
He can physically take most attacks. Shield himself from what he can't and then even heal himself or team mate instantly from any damage done.
Speed
He moves in a "space of time far too infinite to be measured". reactions that make Flash nano second reactions look insignificant (one can still after all measure a nano second)
Energy manip.
The energy that Daimon throws around is very high end. When one demon had created a guise as Damon to hide from Satan ( after escaping hell), satan used him as a means to draw his son out. Knowing he would come to keep his name intact. satan had promised the demon the power of his son. When Daimon learned this he decided to give the demon his wish. If the demon wanted power Daimon gave him all. It was more than the demon could take and utterly destroyed an immortal existence.
Daimon's hellfire trident is a talisman not far behind the level of mjilnor. Daimon has used it to achieve many things, with it he wields hell fire to a degree of control few can match. In defenders when Dr Strange and nighthawk were captured by a cult he was able to raise the hellfire temperature to the point it melted the metal containing Strange without even searing his hands contained.
He has all used it to open time vortexes and travel through time or dimensional gateways ( through hell though he later learned to do so without it). He on even time manipulated with it when facing a vampire he made the middle of the night suddenly day. He has used it to control the earth and summon lightning himself
The number of things I can do with this is unfathomable.
Soul/hell fire
Gallery
Soul/hell fire burns not the physical but the spiritual. So physical durability is no proof of being able to withstand it.
Ferocity in combat
Daimon is also a very driven combatant. He constantly has to fight to control his demonic self. His dark soul fate making him do things that he is ashamed of latter once getting it back in control. He has no problem even as a hero threatening ( and believe me prepared to back it up) innocents to get to his objective.
The best example I can think of of his tenacity and ferocity is Hellstrom v1 issues 8 and 9. In that issue there have been several souls escaped from hell and their presence on earth is allowing Satan a foothold to bring hell to earth. Daimon easily detects their darkness and tracks them down sending the first few straight back to hell. The last couple however he deems not to be justly punished ( one was a wayward girl who was a drug addict and the other a gay woman) so decides to take them to plead to get into heaven. He takes them aaa rows hell in his chariot and then helps them scale the cliffs to heaven. Despite the searing pain of a hell spoken doing so he persists. When they are part way there and the hordes of hell are in Pursuit to stop them Daimon flings himself against all his fathers hordes and fights to delay them. At first he thinks he fights a loosing battle but his ferocity soon turns the tide his way despite the odds.
The one thing you can be sure of, Daimon won't go gently into that good night. He has the durability to take fights to the most physical beings in fiction. Not that he fights that way. His demonic power means he rarely has to.
Battle plan
I cast a spell to create a dozen duplicates of myself and Manthing as per the second scan under spell craft.
I then put up a shield around all so that they have the same level of protection that can contain Blackheart and Dormammu.
Our adversaries are no longer fighting only 2 but 22 opponents (While our dopplegangers protected by powerful shieldd attack the real manthing and Hellstrom will wait to see how the battle progresses from behind the lines) .
Funny Valentine is the main antagonist of the seventh part of the long-running manga series Jojo's Bizarre Adventure.
In his early childhood, Valentine was like any other child, playing with his toys without a care in the world. But, in 1854, that began to change. A member of his father's company arrived at his house, and described the lengths that the elder Valentine had gone to to protect his country and his family, even after being horrifically tortured. Although Funny was still only a boy, he took his father's message to heart. When he was old enough, he, too, became a soldier, and he, too, was tortured, leaving him scars that would last a lifetime. But, unlike his father, Valentine had luck on his side. Perhaps "fate" would be a better word to use, but, whatever you call it, it is undeniable that Valentine found something buried in the desert--the heart of a certain "Holy" individual. Valentine wasn't sure how he knew, but as his life went on, and he rose through the ranks, he became convinced that this heart was merely part of a "Holy Corpse"--one that would grant him great power, and bring his nation great prosperity. So, Valentine devoted himself, and managed to attain the highest office of the land at only 46. There, he began to put his plan into motion, and set about assembling the resources to collect the remaining parts of the corpse.
POSSESSED ABILITY:
STAND-Stands are spirits manifested through the psychic energy of their users. They are only visible to those who possess them, and each one grants a unique set of superpowers to its user. Any damage done to a stand will be done to the user on the corresponding location on his or her body, but only stands can damage other stands.
KEYWORD- Only one stand user can see or hurt other user. The only way to defeat a stand is to kill its user. But in case of FV, you will see virtually impossible as we move on.
PHYSICAL STRENGTH:
was able to punch an enemy flying a couple of meters
Cuts off stand user's hand with a simple karate chop
Punch straight through someone's body
SPEED:
hypersonic for Funny Valentine
FTL for Dirty Deeds Dirty Cheap (or D4C in short). Stated by author to an 'A' type stand
D4C MAIN ABILITIES:
Valentine's stand, Dirty Deeds Done Dirty Cheap (or "D4C" for short) allows him to jump between LIMITLESS similar parallel universes by closing himself between two objects. By itself, this is a powerful ability, but several caveats outlined below elevate it to being one of the most dangerous stands in the entire franchise.
REGENERATION-When Valentine hops from universe to universe, he can swap his consciousness into any other "him" he finds, instantly healing any wound he's received. Unless you kill him before he can hop, he's immortal.
His throat was sliced but next moment he was fine
Gallery
was sliced into hundreds of small pieces, he simply switched with his other self and was completely new
Gallery
SINCE FV CAN HOP INTO INFINITE NO. OF UNIVERSES, HE IS IMPOSSIBLE TO KILL. THE ONLY WAY TO TRULY INJURE HIM IS TO SLICE INFINITE NO. OF DIMENSIONS.
DIMENSIONAL INTANGIBILITY AND TELEPORTATION: FV can easily escape his enemy's attack by teleporting from one universe to another.
Escaped enemy's grip by dimensional hop and appeared out of his back. TRULY BIZARRE!
Gallery
Teleported a part of his face to another universe to escape a fatal attack
Gallery
OFFENSIVE ABILITY:
this is where FV gets most dangerous. He is the most hax guy in this match.....no, even whole tournament. His hax allows him to drag the counterparts of his opponents from other world. And if those two guys meets each other BOOM
He can drag his opponents to other dimension and dump them on their counterpatrs:
Gallery
This ability ignores all kind of durability and regeneration. No two versions of the same person or thing can co-exist in the same dimension, one of them will have to go back into their own. If not, and if they get too close to one another, both will crumble, splitting into Menger sponges before obliteration and turns into nothingness. This rule does not apply to Valentine himself.
That is his hax.
He can also summon counterparts to real world instead of dragging opponents to other dimension. HE can even grab powerless or different powered and personality counterparts at will. for example: the different Dio Brando, he summouned from other world.
He can also bring several duplicates to fight with him
Before Daimon can use his spell, Goku start fighting him, he will get tired because Goku is relentless and Daimon's stats in strength and speed are the same as Goku......a little less
Meanwhile FV grabs Man-Thing and transports him into a different universe, making him fall unto another Man-Thing, thus making him explode. Man Thing is out of game.
he then returns and grabs a counterpart of Daimon. While he is busy with Goku, FV appears out of his body and caught Daimon off guard making him touch his counterpart. AND THERE WE GO, DAIMON IS DEAD TOO!
Before Daimon can use his spell, Goku start fighting him, he will get tired because Goku is relentless and Daimon's stats in strength and speed are the same as Goku......a little less
So far this seems to be the only plan of attack. So I will let this judge the initial fight.
Daimen can cast spells in fight, with words or a wave of his hand. In this battle Daimon first spell is to cast 12 Manthings, which makes it hard to single any one out. Outnumbering your team.
Meanwhile FV grabs Man-Thing and transports him into a different universe, making him fall unto another Man-Thing, thus making him explode. Man Thing is out of game.
This is a wasted move. Man Thing is a better teleporter than your character. Man Thing is the Nexus of All Realities, the center traveler of the Multiverses.
Gallery
First scan says it all. Man Thing can cross time and realities with ease. Not only that, unlike your characters, Man Thing can locate the time and universe of anyone he wishes to find. Second and third scans shows Man Thing teleporting people in mass, or by making portals. Last scan is Man Thing chilling in the Nexus itself, with the other universes all around him.
Here is the issue with your teleport plan. Man Thing is better at it. Man Thing can locate anyone or any thing in any random universe or time period with his powers. Also, there is 12 Man things here.
he then returns and grabs a counterpart of Daimon. While he is busy with Goku, FV appears out of his body and caught Daimon off guard making him touch his counterpart. AND THERE WE GO, DAIMON IS DEAD TOO!
As I said, there is twelve Man Things here, and any BFR will be undone laughably easy. Meanwhile Man Thing can BFR Goku in a fight, and Goku is lost as your character shows no feats to sense beings in alternate realities or time.
Attack
Mainly Man Thing will use his empathetic powers to affect both your characters. While not a offensive psychic, Man Thing is a top notch empathy being, able to affect even Nightmare Lords, and minor Hell Lords with his power.
Gallery
Scans 1-2 explain well how the ability works. Man Thing dredges up the negative emotions out of a pedophile alcoholic. Then dredges up fear as well to burn him. Scan 3 does the same to a fearless warrior, who was then imbued with terror. Scan 4 shows the emphatic power is enough for Man Thing to perceive Illusions of another mans fears, and grab them. Scan 5 shows this empathetic power is so great, that he can sense past events that left strong emotional impressions.
That is the scope of Man Thing Empathy abilities. In battle though, like the first 3 scans, Man Thing can dredge up emotions, and crippling fear. He does this to powerful beings who are Silver Surfer level.
Gallery
In both battles with D'Spayre, and Thog, the Man Thing was able to use his abilities to dredge up fear in them to use his power of the Burning Touch which only works on anything that feels fear.
So your characters will likely be affected by the empathetic abilities, throwing your whole game off any way. Add to this Man Things plant life help, making the battle field work against your team.
Gallery
I have not even touch on Man Things other abilities, and stats which are enough to end either character. Thanks to the Environment, and Empathetic abilities of Man Thing, your characters speed will be severely hampered, and hesitation abound.
Conclusions
12 Man Things alone is enough to win this match. Your characters have no way to harm him at all. To beat Man Thing require to remove Man thing from contact with the planet, something your characters do not know of. Now their is 12 of them, and with their abilities of Empathy, and Plants Attacks on the battlefield, as well Man Thing's superior BFR abilities makes this a impossible match for your team to win.
So far this seems to be the only plan of attack. So I will let this judge the initial fight.
Daimen can cast spells in fight, with words or a wave of his hand. In this battle Daimon first spell is to cast 12 Manthings, which makes it hard to single any one out. Outnumbering your team.
I need scans of Daimon being able to perfectly summon someone of that power multiple times.
his is a wasted move. Man Thing is a better teleporter than your character. Man Thing is the Nexus of All Realities, the center traveler of the Multiverses.
He might be a better teleporter but don't forget he's man-thing and a bit slow in the brain, plus his first instinct isn't ever to teleport back as he's never encountered something like this before. Not to mention there's no proof he can do this before he touches the other Man-thing (which he's being dropped on top of) or that it's the first thing he'll do. In fact, I doubt he'll even notice what has happened before he's annihilated.
First scan says it all. Man Thing can cross time and realities with ease. Not only that, unlike your characters, Man Thing can locate the time and universe of anyone he wishes to find. Second and third scans shows Man Thing teleporting people in mass, or by making portals. Last scan is Man Thing chilling in the Nexus itself, with the other universes all around him.
He can open portals to get there, he isn't doing this the very moment FV takes him.
Here is the issue with your teleport plan. Man Thing is better at it. Man Thing can locate anyone or any thing in any random universe or time period with his powers. Also, there is 12 Man things here.
It isn't a teleporting competition, it's the fact that FV has a better way of utilizing his thing. I see no proof that Damion can summon 12 other man-things.
As I said, there is twelve Man Things here, and any BFR will be undone laughably easy. Meanwhile Man Thing can BFR Goku in a fight, and Goku is lost as your character shows no feats to sense beings in alternate realities or time.
Again no proof of 12 MTs. Has MT ever BFRd someone mid fight? If so, Has he ever even thought of it without someone telling him? If so, has he ever BFRd someone into time?
Not to mention Goku is much much much faster than MT can see.
Mainly Man Thing will use his empathetic powers to affect both your characters. While not a offensive psychic, Man Thing is a top notch empathy being, able to affect even Nightmare Lords, and minor Hell Lords with his power.
Any proof this will work on a being with a Pure Soul/heart?
So your characters will likely be affected by the empathetic abilities, throwing your whole game off any way. Add to this Man Things plant life help, making the battle field work against your team.
Debatable and hardly a deciding factor.
Oh no plants, I assume these are somehow herald level plants?
12 Man Things alone is enough to win this match. Your characters have no way to harm him at all. To beat Man Thing require to remove Man thing from contact with the planet, something your characters do not know of. Now their is 12 of them, and with their abilities of Empathy, and Plants Attacks on the battlefield, as well Man Thing's superior BFR abilities makes this a impossible match for your team to win.
No proof of Damion being able to conjure 12 of someone as powerful as man thing with 100% of their functionality.
No proof empathetic abilities would work on someone pure of soul/heart.
No proof Man-thing is smart or quick enough to counter being dropped on his counterpart and being erased, and if that doesn't work he has no counter to a counterpart being dropped on him.
No proof MT can even react to Goku, who will likely just one shot KO and let him get erased.
@beatboks1 you're up, you need to prove that Damion has the ability to do what SFW says he can and you need to prove he can take Goku's hits and prevent getting blitzed by his speed.
@precrisisbardock Wait, you want me to prove what I already proved ???
OK seems a complete waste of time but why not
No proof of Damion being able to conjure 12 of someone as powerful as man thing with 100% of their functionality.
This is Daimon creating a LOT more than 12 duplicates. He BTW is every bit as powerful as Manthing if not more so. This scan was in my previous post second one under spells (as I stated). his dupes showed to have his powers also.
No proof empathetic abilities would work on someone pure of soul/heart.
No proof they wouldn't but I'll leave that up to @sirfizzwhizz. What proof is there that being pure of heart is any sort of protection of an established power??
No proof Man-thing is smart or quick enough to counter being dropped on his counterpart and being erased, and if that doesn't work he has no counter to a counterpart being dropped on him.
Why would we need that when he has a shield around him that neither player on your team has the power to damage??? Hellstrom's shields have contained universal level threats not just planetary.
No proof MT can even react to Goku, who will likely just one shot KO and let him get erased.
No need of proof since he's protected by a force field you can't penetrate anyway. Besides which he's being controlled by Hellstrom who has that level of reaction.
He "moves in a span of time so small it can't be measured."
He also moves so fast that despite the fact that the guy has a gun raised and aimed at him he moves and sends his trident traveled the the distance between them (several meters) faster than an electric impulse could be sent from the mans brain to his finger. The brain sends impulses at 107m/s. It had less than a meter to travel, that's 10 milliseconds. The trident had to move several meters before that happened so had to have velocity above micro second and the reaction had to be close to nanosecond for this to occur.
Let's look at how long it takes Hellstrom to put up a force field
It only takes a thought. He could do that instantly. Your not getting any licks in on my team at all.
We however can make you insignificant.
Here he shrunk a monster that was taller than the New York skyline to the palm of his hand. Shrinking you to the size of an ant so your attacks mean nothing will be child's play.
@precrisisbardock Wait, you want me to prove what I already proved ???
OK seems a complete waste of time but why not
No proof of Damion being able to conjure 12 of someone as powerful as man thing with 100% of their functionality.
This is Daimon creating a LOT more than 12 duplicates. He BTW is every bit as powerful as Manthing if not more so. This scan was in my previous post second one under spells (as I stated). his dupes showed to have his powers also.
No proof empathetic abilities would work on someone pure of soul/heart.
No proof they wouldn't but I'll leave that up to @sirfizzwhizz. What proof is there that being pure of heart is any sort of protection of an established power??
The fact that Goku being able to use Spirit Boom and SsG mode. Both of them requires to be a pure of heart. Emphatic powers are useless.
No proof Man-thing is smart or quick enough to counter being dropped on his counterpart and being erased, and if that doesn't work he has no counter to a counterpart being dropped on him.
Why would we need that when he has a shield around him that neither player on your team has the power to damage??? Hellstrom's shields have contained universal level threats not just planetary.
Lol, what universal threats?
Not to forgot Goku will blitz Daimon before he can put on any shield.
Also the shield won't matter when are near your counterparts, you will be automatically get pulled towards each other.
No proof MT can even react to Goku, who will likely just one shot KO and let him get erased.
No need of proof since he's protected by a force field you can't penetrate anyway. Besides which he's being controlled by Hellstrom who has that level of reaction.
He "moves in a span of time so small it can't be measured."
He also moves so fast that despite the fact that the guy has a gun raised and aimed at him he moves and sends his trident traveled the the distance between them (several meters) faster than an electric impulse could be sent from the mans brain to his finger. The brain sends impulses at 107m/s. It had less than a meter to travel, that's 10 milliseconds. The trident had to move several meters before that happened so had to have velocity above micro second and the reaction had to be close to nanosecond for this to occur.
Let's look at how long it takes Hellstrom to put up a force field
It only takes a thought. He could do that instantly. Your not getting any licks in on my team at all.
So his speed is to blitz a normal human and bullets? Nice, i guess?
Pity though Goku was blitzing people in these situations ever since he was a little boy.
H e even blitzed a FTL characters from even less than half a feet.
Here he shrunk a monster that was taller than the New York skyline to the palm of his hand. Shrinking you to the size of an ant so your attacks mean nothing will be child's play.
Irrelevant, he will be blitzed before he can do anything.
FV transports Manthing into other dimension and dumps Manthing onto his counterpart before he realizes he is in other dimension since Manthing is slow in brain and figting too. Manthing will be killed despite his regeneration.
FV returns to the battlefield. And even if Daimon summoned copies of himself, FV summons thousnads and millions of copies of Goku and tell them not to touch each other.
Daimon will be outmatched too much and blitz. If lucky, he will be KO by thousands of Goku. if unlucky, he will be turns into nothingness by FV
He might be a better teleporter but don't forget he's man-thing and a bit slow in the brain, plus his first instinct isn't ever to teleport back as he's never encountered something like this before. Not to mention there's no proof he can do this before he touches the other Man-thing (which he's being dropped on top of) or that it's the first thing he'll do. In fact, I doubt he'll even notice what has happened before he's annihilated.
Slow in the brain, yet he fights, and beat Hell Lords, Hulk, Dr. Strange, and more..... uh huh. Anyway i already covered Daimon instilling a sense of battle in Man Thing, and Man thing has fought beings fine without guidance while working with a team. Midnight Sons, X-Men, Thunderbolts, and Marvel Monsters come to mind. That is without guidance mind you, yet works fine with said teams. Just to show how poor of a counter you made, here is examples of Man Thing traveling distances to re fight foes that tried to get away from him.
Gallery
In his fight against the manifested Marvel Zombie Virus, Man Thing was destroyed by the Marvel Zombie Plague, then the Zombie Virus made its way to battle Son of Satan, and the rest of the Midnight Sons, only to have a reform Man Thing in no time flat come back, teleport via plant travel, and attack the Zombie Virus.
Gallery
Another case here is Man thing secretly helps the Avengers, who never knew he was there, to deal with a Plant Man that could not be destroyed. Man thing plant travels and surprise attacks the plant man foe, and ends him, then travels away before the Avengers knew what happen, even though they were chasing the foe.
All of this is unguided by the way, under his own "slow" intelligence, yet both examples show him teleporting via his plant means to find, and attack foes that left him somewhere else. Why is dumping him in a dimension matter?
He can open portals to get there, he isn't doing this the very moment FV takes him.
He can open portals, or travel via bubble. I shown scans of Man thing BFRing things around him in a area.
Gallery
He also has Plant teleportation, as in anything with plant life, or nutrients for plant life can be turn into Man Thing.
Gallery
He is one with the earth itself. Able to traverse through it. See through it. Be one with it.
It isn't a teleporting competition, it's the fact that FV has a better way of utilizing his thing. I see no proof that Damion can summon 12 other man-things.
How is FV better at using teleportation when Man Thing uses his forms to travel, or attack? Not seeing it.
Again no proof of 12 MTs. Has MT ever BFRd someone mid fight? If so, Has he ever even thought of it without someone telling him? If so, has he ever BFRd someone into time?
Man Thing has never BFRed anyone, Daimon has, and he is guiding Man thing who has the powers. Man thing has by himself use his power to lacate people, bring them to and fro, and attack via his two forms of teleportation. So yes in that regard.
Not to mention Goku is much much much faster than MT can see.
Speed means little as I touched on with empathy powers affecting your team, and another ability of Man things, Spores. I will touch on this soon.
Any proof this will work on a being with a Pure Soul/heart?
Any proof it will not? Why does having good morals make you immune to empathy, and fear which Goku felt many times? Can I see that proof or twisted logic? That is a pretty weak comeback, though you really have none as DBZ universe has no counters to psy attacks.
Oh no plants, I assume these are somehow herald level plants?
Herald level plants? Im not sure what you mean here, but the plant life affecting the battle field is simply further annoyance for your team, and to help Man Thing finish your team off with his trademark move, Burning Touch. Lets touch on the second thing Man Thing does here. Burning Touch.The Burning Touch is a magical and chemical attack that burns anything. I do mean anything.
Gallery
Burns the Fear Lord De'spayre.
Glob is the same as Mam Thing, made the same way, only Glob lacks the magical properties of the Nexus. Man thing burns Glob to nothing.
King Hyperion burn to near death.
The Cosmic minor Hell Lord Thog, burn to nothing.
Marvel Zombie Virus manifested. Burn to nothing, and cures the virus infected storm outside as a result.
Now your thinking, well this is only if Man Thing can touch Goku. Well Goku likes to hand and hand foes more than blast them anyway. He does this to Manthing, he would find himself likely caught up in the gunk which even Hulk could not break free from.
Gallery
Punch away Goku, get stuck in it with his vastly weaker than Hulk strength feats, and Man Thing can Burn Touch him from there. Add to this another unique form of attack. Any plant life that touches Goku can be used for this this to work.
Gallery
Its been shown before when Man Thing infects the plant life around this house, and the food eaten to spring an elaborate mass Burning tough on everyone. If Man Thing is incline to go this rout, any manipulate plant life containing his spores would do this.
Best part is Goku has no knowledge of these abilities, and would likely not make too much effort to avoid them since he does not know whats coming. So You have the battle field attacking, empathy attacks inducing fear and madness, possible BFR, the Burning touch via Man Thing getting his hands on anyone on your team, or simply mass Burning touch when desperate. All these are valid ways with Daimon guiding him too making the arguments that much stronger.
No proof of Damion being able to conjure 12 of someone as powerful as man thing with 100% of their functionality.
I will leave that to Beatboks. One Man Thing is enough against your one trick pony character.
No proof empathetic abilities would work on someone pure of soul/heart.
This is a piss poor argument, and cannot believe your trying to use it as some counter lol.
No proof Man-thing is smart or quick enough to counter being dropped on his counterpart and being erased, and if that doesn't work he has no counter to a counterpart being dropped on him.
This been countered.
No proof MT can even react to Goku, who will likely just one shot KO and let him get erased
One shot how? A energy attack he rarely uses off the bat? Any surving plant cells making contact with the earth means a new body anyway for man thing. Goku has no knowledge how to beat him.
I feel the same about your bravado in a hopless battle. But that is why we are here, to debate and have fun right?
Lol, what universal threats?
Not to forgot Goku will blitz Daimon before he can put on any shield.
Also the shield won't matter when are near your counterparts, you will be automatically get pulled towards each other.
Well Son of Satan did give a fight against Chaos King this one time, regardless, Daimon is a Hell Lord, which I will elave to Beatboks to defend. I do know a speed blitz by Goku will mean little when Goku cannot put down Daimon that fast. Goku like wise cannot beat Manthing at all.
So his speed is to blitz a normal human and bullets? Nice, i guess?
Pity though Goku was blitzing people in these situations ever since he was a little boy.
H e even blitzed a FTL characters from even less than half a feet.
While Goku is fast as hell, what solid proof is there he is Lightspeed? Instant Teleportation is not speed feat either. So what proof of Lightspeed or FTL speed can you provide that DBZ fans failed to provide the last 5 years on this site? Powerscaling of flawed Power Levels? Piccolos gag feat of moon busting? Regardless, there is none.
More about Goku, who seems to be Precrisis character, and nothing on your own. is your character so useless you are relying on Goku for everything?
CONCLUSION:
Goku blitz the hell out of Daimon.
Debatable, especially since Goku spends more time in a fight talking or posing than fighting. Not that blitzing matters as Daimon can surely whether it, and Man Thing will be unaffected.
FV transports Manthing into other dimension and dumps Manthing onto his counterpart before he realizes he is in other dimension since Manthing is slow in brain and figting too. Manthing will be killed despite his regeneration.
This is base on what? Manthing is slow to think but still fights speedier foes fine, and is guided by Daimon to fight in this case, so he is hardly his usual lump of self.
Im not sure how you can state Man Thing dies. You have yet to prove why Man Thing dies lol.
Gallery
Blasts with holes by IM.
Absorbs Shang chi into his body.
Ghost Riders own Hell Fire does not harm him.
Remakes body from the earth.
Remakes body from Swamp, and then ragdolls Dr. Strange.
Marvel Zombie Virus rains decay and death, something even Son of Satan would not let touch him in the same comic, and Manthing is the only being to withstand it as long he is touching the earth.
Forms torn body around Hulk with no probs.
Man Things body is able to walk phase through physical attacks, making him immune to such attacks in general.
Gallery
Walks through a cage.
Walks through Spider Man's webbing.
Has a net pass through him.
Slash several times with no limbs falling off.
Again he will not fall apart with cutting or slashing attacks.
Fact is, Man Thing will reform from any attack, much like Swamp Thing as long he has some contact with the earth. Even if you decimate his body, if a peice of him touches the earth, he will reform. The only way to beat him handily is separate him from the earth, and keep all plant cells from re touching the earth. Your chatracters do not know this weakness. They can never rid of Manthing.
FV returns to the battlefield. And even if Daimon summoned copies of himself, FV summons thousnads and millions of copies of Goku and tell them not to touch each other.
Can I see this feat? This is the first I heard of it, and see no scans of it.
Daimon will be outmatched too much and blitz. If lucky, he will be KO by thousands of Goku. if unlucky, he will be turns into nothingness by FV
Thousands of Goku, how did we pull that number from our ass lol?
@serpinethegreen: meh, its not fun. People only go to popular one. We will win but still they are the one who will get votes. Its boring. We need moderators to decide not fanboys.
@beatboks1: i would disagree with that. Jojo characters are least non manga chracters. Even tbough people might have heard about Manthing and Daimon, FV is least known as that part of Jojo is far from many people knowledge.
@serpinethegreen: -___- I doubt it. I haven't insulted anyone in this CaV besides you. Infact, it is SirFizzWhizz who is insulting me and my character.
This is Daimon creating a LOT more than 12 duplicates. He BTW is every bit as powerful as Manthing if not more so. This scan was in my previous post second one under spells (as I stated). his dupes showed to have his powers also.
How is Daimon just as strong as the central nexus of reality guy.
It still proves nothing, he calls them shadows.
- Are they 100% as strong as them?
- Has he ever even used them in a fight?
- Can he do this with other people or only himself?
Why would we need that when he has a shield around him that neither player on your team has the power to damage??? Hellstrom's shields have contained universal level threats not just planetary.
Universal threats? Cell was a universal 'threat', that's just fluff. Show some durability showing proving the shields can take even a punch.
He "moves in a span of time so small it can't be measured."
Lmfao, seriously? That's still just fluff, he just blitzed some average human.
He also moves so fast that despite the fact that the guy has a gun raised and aimed at him he moves and sends his trident traveled the the distance between them (several meters) faster than an electric impulse could be sent from the mans brain to his finger. The brain sends impulses at 107m/s. It had less than a meter to travel, that's 10 milliseconds. The trident had to move several meters before that happened so had to have velocity above micro second and the reaction had to be close to nanosecond for this to occur.
And the dude didn't want to shoot, hence why he was threatening. He wasn't in mid trigger pull or anything, Batman has replicated similar feats. This is a FTE feat at best, it's unbelievable you're wanking this to microsecond.
Here he shrunk a monster that was taller than the New York skyline to the palm of his hand. Shrinking you to the size of an ant so your attacks mean nothing will be child's play.
Your dude is getting blitz wrecked, he isn't going to have time to do any of that.
Now onto wizz.
low in the brain, yet he fights, and beat Hell Lords, Hulk, Dr. Strange, and more..... uh huh. Anyway i already covered Daimon instilling a sense of battle in Man Thing, and Man thing has fought beings fine without guidance while working with a team. Midnight Sons, X-Men, Thunderbolts, and Marvel Monsters come to mind. That is without guidance mind you, yet works fine with said teams. Just to show how poor of a counter you made, here is examples of Man Thing traveling distances to re fight foes that tried to get away from him.
We didn't make a bad teamwork claim, this is filler.
Those aren't examples proving Man-thing noticing him being in another universe and being able to realize and cross back to a different universe in the fraction of a second it will take for him to be erased.
In his fight against the manifested Marvel Zombie Virus, Man Thing was destroyed by the Marvel Zombie Plague, then the Zombie Virus made its way to battle Son of Satan, and the rest of the Midnight Sons, only to have a reform Man Thing in no time flat come back, teleport via plant travel, and attack the Zombie Virus.
How is this relevant to anything?
Another case here is Man thing secretly helps the Avengers, who never knew he was there, to deal with a Plant Man that could not be destroyed. Man thing plant travels and surprise attacks the plant man foe, and ends him, then travels away before the Avengers knew what happen, even though they were chasing the foe.
Again irrelevant.
All of this is unguided by the way, under his own "slow" intelligence, yet both examples show him teleporting via his plant means to find, and attack foes that left him somewhere else. Why is dumping him in a dimension matter?
Perhaps you don't understand, you need to show that he will:
A. Realize he's in another universe
B. Teleport back to the OGverse as his first Reaction.
C. Can perform the above two steps before he gets erased.
Showing a bunch of misc. times of him teleporting to places is irrelevant.
But even if he somehow out of character automatically counters it, Valentine still just gets a counterpart and drops it on him, boom done.
He can open portals, or travel via bubble. I shown scans of Man thing BFRing things around him in a area.
AKA Big portals.
He also has Plant teleportation, as in anything with plant life, or nutrients for plant life can be turn into Man Thing.
Irrelevant.
He is one with the earth itself. Able to traverse through it. See through it. Be one with it.
Fluff
How is FV better at using teleportation when Man Thing uses his forms to travel, or attack? Not seeing it.
I said he's better at utilizing it not using it, which he is as he can totally erase people from existence the way he uses it offensively.
Man Thing has never BFRed anyone, Daimon has, and he is guiding Man thing who has the powers. Man thing has by himself use his power to lacate people, bring them to and fro, and attack via his two forms of teleportation. So yes in that regard.
So no proof.
Speed means little as I touched on with empathy powers affecting your team, and another ability of Man things, Spores. I will touch on this soon.
I don't see how speed means little, but whatever.
Any proof it will not? Why does having good morals make you immune to empathy, and fear which Goku felt many times? Can I see that proof or twisted logic? That is a pretty weak comeback, though you really have none as DBZ universe has no counters to psy attacks.
So your aim is to make the dude who casually faces people who can destroy planets with a single blast despite them being many times stronger than him, the person who defended the entire universe from a tyrant that decimated his entire race with a finger attack, the person who went heads up with someone the lord of lords was pissing his pants over, your plan is to make him scared and you think thats gonna win you this fight? That's honestly hilarious.
Herald level plants? Im not sure what you mean here, but the plant life affecting the battle field is simply further annoyance for your team, and to help Man Thing finish your team off with his trademark move, Burning Touch. Lets touch on the second thing Man Thing does here. Burning Touch.The Burning Touch is a magical and chemical attack that burns anything. I do mean anything.
So plants are fodder like I predicted.
Fire is too slow to even be a threat especially considering MT is getting erased pretty early on.
Now your thinking, well this is only if Man Thing can touch Goku. Well Goku likes to hand and hand foes more than blast them anyway. He does this to Manthing, he would find himself likely caught up in the gunk which even Hulk could not break free from.
Goku is way stronger than Hulk not to mention Goku is fighting Damion not MT as MT is getting wrecked by my dude Valentine very early on.
Punch away Goku, get stuck in it with his vastly weaker than Hulk strength feats, and Man Thing can Burn Touch him from there. Add to this another unique form of attack. Any plant life that touches Goku can be used for this this to work.
I'm not even going to bother as this guy has no defense against Valentine.
Its been shown before when Man Thing infects the plant life around this house, and the food eaten to spring an elaborate mass Burning tough on everyone. If Man Thing is incline to go this rout, any manipulate plant life containing his spores would do this.
Then Goku just blasts it all away.
But wait, MT will e gone by then.
Best part is Goku has no knowledge of these abilities, and would likely not make too much effort to avoid them since he does not know whats coming. So You have the battle field attacking, empathy attacks inducing fear and madness, possible BFR, the Burning touch via Man Thing getting his hands on anyone on your team, or simply mass Burning touch when desperate. All these are valid ways with Daimon guiding him too making the arguments that much stronger.
Goku can sense the slightest change in the atmosphere, these aren't tagging him. MT is getting erased very early on no matter how much you try to deny it. Empathy attacks will hardly work, Goku as never given into fear, if anything it empowers him.
I will leave that to Beatboks. One Man Thing is enough against your one trick pony character.
Getting a little heated are we now.
This is a piss poor argument, and cannot believe your trying to use it as some counter lol.
Don't worry I provided something that you can't lowball.
This been countered.
Hasn't and can't
One shot how? A energy attack he rarely uses off the bat? Any surving plant cells making contact with the earth means a new body anyway for man thing. Goku has no knowledge how to beat him.
A punch should KO him easily, but Valentine is taking care of him anyways.
@sirfizzwhizz@beatboks1 we should be wrapping this up, it's obvious you have no real counter to our plan and your plan is guesswork at best wit still no counter to Goku's speed or striking strength and Valentines counterpart dropping. Not to mention Valentine can pull craploads of other Goku's from other universes and just have them jump you in while he's dropping your own counterparts in erasing you from existence.
Thankyou, thankyou. You have fallen beautifully into the trap we laid. By allowing us to divert you from the actual context of the speed feat with a deliberate miscalculation.
And the dude didn't want to shoot, hence why he was threatening. He wasn't in mid trigger pull or anything, Batman has replicated similar feats. This is a FTE feat at best, it's unbelievable you're wanking this to microsecond.
ha ha, so easily proven wrong
He didn't blitz a human he blitzed a brain impulse that only had a couple of CM's to go.
Notice where I've circled?? those are the artistic representations of the fact that that part of the body was already moving/ tensing. Notice also that the muscles in the wrist are already flexed the way one does when when one pulls the trigger finger tighter. Voters, hold your hand as if your holding a gun and pull your finger to pull the trigger. Notice how the lines down teh for arm are EXACTLY what you see when you do this.
The impulse that Daimon beat was only a few CM away from the trigger finger. The Text clearly shows the Thug already said he was going to get dead before he spoke a few more words.He reacted in MUCH less than 320 microseconds (the time that it would take something that can travel 109 meters per second to travel 2.5cm) because the finger was already moving to pull the trigger AND he didn't even start to react until after this.
Daimon threw a trident 17 to 20 feet in less time that it takes a nerve impulse to travel 3.5 (inch and a half).
we can come up with this by the simply fact that Daimon's entire upper body isn't much bigger than that the thugs fist this is how you work it out ( Daimon is 6'1 so 6 x 0.45/ 0.5 (torso is about that of the whole body) x 6
so he made his trident move between 5 to 7 meters in 320 microseconds (actually probably less than a fraction of this, I've been trying to be very generous all along). His trident moved 15625m/s (assuming it was the 320 microseconds), but that doesn't even allow for him to react and initiate the movement, or the fact that the trigger was already being pulled (because you can't get that particular muscle movement pictured unless it was or you were clenching a fist).
Lmfao, seriously? That's still just fluff, he just blitzed some average human.
So you see my friend it's not "fluff" you just aren't analyzing the feat correctly.
Add to which Daimon has a sixth sense and has always sensed danger before it was evident
Gallery
He'll be reacting before your attack has been initiated.
Never mind the fact that he can simply teleport anywhere instantly as well and be away form any attack
Gallery
Your speed advantage (if you have one at all) is minimal and compensated for by Daimon's mystic senses to danger (that are Superior even to Classic Dr Strange ).
Bit that it matters at all since even if you do get in fiorst you have to actually be able to do some damage to Daimon.
Damage to someone who can take this
Gallery
He's withstood the attacks of every demon in hell simultaneously without a shield. Tanked the blasts of the divine power itself (there is context to this which I'll get to in a bit). Don't make me bring up the scans from Defenders where only a dozen of these said demons were doing Silver Surfer significant harm, yet Daimon just swathed through them
Or this
Gallery
There we have Daimon tanking Dormammu's attacks even without his shields. The same Dormammu who can do this >
But somehow we're expected to believe your guy's are going to lay him low with a few punches.
Even if you have a slight speed advantage you can't do enough damage to Daimon before he can put up a shield to protect himself and enact our plan. He can tank it more than long enough to do so and as I've shown completely heal himself when ever he wants (trust me once you've brought the dead back to life as a sub conscious after thought, healing is a low level feat).
Even if we were to assume you could somehow actually do some damage to Daimon, you'd be doing your own case more harm than good. Getting Daimon angry simply unlocks and releases his darksoul. doing so makes him more powerful and far more dangerous. Here's where the context of the supreme power tanking comes in. You see every single attack made against Daimon when he fought all of hell made him release more of his darksoul. It made him stronger, more durable more ferocious etc etc. That's why he was so deformed by the time that the heavenly power attacked him.
The angrier you make Daimon the more powerful he'll become and the worse your chances of surviving are, let alone winning v v .
Gallery
So put simply you can't do enough damage to Daimon before he can shield himself with his force shields that are already shown to hold and protect from vastly more powerful beings that your team. Even if you could you simply assure your defeat by unleashing his darksoul and facing an actual hell Lord who is the Equal of Satan
His powers are only restrained from being equal to his father (the most powerful hell Lord in Marvel) by his softer emotions. Making him angry removes that weakness. This mind you was very early in Daimon's history shortly after he'd discovered his heratige and his powers. he's had several upgrades since then.
Universal threats? Cell was a universal 'threat', that's just fluff. Show some durability showing proving the shields can take even a punch.
And tell me when pray tell did Cell ever take the power of a being like Eternity ??? That is something that with help Dormammu has done.
So let's cover this so far.
Minimal speed advantage if any on Goku's behalf
Daimon has a precog/danger/mystic sense prove to be better than that of Dr Strange so would be reacting before Goku started to mvoe
Daimon has tanked greater damage than anything either of team two has shown they can delever
When damage is sufficient to actually harm Daimon it would make him angry and simply make him more powerful. more durable stronger, faster etc etc.
Daimon can actually completely heal himself instantly with nothing more than a subconscious thought (he Brought the Seer back to life from being completely dead by subconsciously wanting it in the scans I've already shown)
Daimon can create shields that have held a being possessed by Dormammu and Black heart (I might add that in the same issue Sue Reed's shields couldn't do that)
He can create these shields with only a thought (that he could still have while being attacked/blitzed anyway)
He can enact magic with only a thought
He can produce hell fire that burns and destroys the soul not the physical (which neither have shown any resistance too)
And somehow my adversaries think he's getting one shotted.
Yeah that makes perfect sense.
If it get's back to me I'll start covering some the 1000's of other types of attacks Daimon can make that I haven't even touched upon. Things like
Controlling the weather, lighting
Controlling the earth
manipulating any darkness or dark emotion within an adversary
@beatboks1:t4v. Anyhow, tagging you to say one thing. 100 men=/= 40t :D
@akshsarpanch You should really chill out if you dont want to be banned. Anyhow, you already lost a lot of votes by insulting voters.
In the real world where men left between 135 to 165 lbs NO. In the comics world where peak humans do 2000lbs and Batman with training does 800 to 900 and a well worked out man who isn't even an Olympian can lift 400 lbs it certainly is.
@akshsarpanch: I believe that makes it your post. I figure one more each if all agree.
@sirfizzwhizz: The way out friend ^ is complaining about fanboysim being against him (when facing two relatively unknown characters that are always under rated on this and every forum, I'm not sure I feel like continuing after this round. I'll finish the debate because it's not my style not to but I don't know if I want to continue Sorry mate.
@beatboks1: oh cool, you are cheating now. It was SirFizz turn not yours. Plz control your emotions and follow rules of CaV or get disqualified. Your choice.
HUH??? It was my turn. sirfizz went first followed by precrisis followed by me and I just followed him again. I never got "emotional" at all, though it appears the same can't be said for you consistently.
@precrisisbardock Wait, you want me to prove what I already proved ???
OK seems a complete waste of time but why not
No proof of Damion being able to conjure 12 of someone as powerful as man thing with 100% of their functionality.
This is Daimon creating a LOT more than 12 duplicates. He BTW is every bit as powerful as Manthing if not more so. This scan was in my previous post second one under spells (as I stated). his dupes showed to have his powers also.
No proof empathetic abilities would work on someone pure of soul/heart.
No proof they wouldn't but I'll leave that up to @sirfizzwhizz. What proof is there that being pure of heart is any sort of protection of an established power??
No proof Man-thing is smart or quick enough to counter being dropped on his counterpart and being erased, and if that doesn't work he has no counter to a counterpart being dropped on him.
Why would we need that when he has a shield around him that neither player on your team has the power to damage??? Hellstrom's shields have contained universal level threats not just planetary.
No proof MT can even react to Goku, who will likely just one shot KO and let him get erased.
No need of proof since he's protected by a force field you can't penetrate anyway. Besides which he's being controlled by Hellstrom who has that level of reaction.
He "moves in a span of time so small it can't be measured."
He also moves so fast that despite the fact that the guy has a gun raised and aimed at him he moves and sends his trident traveled the the distance between them (several meters) faster than an electric impulse could be sent from the mans brain to his finger. The brain sends impulses at 107m/s. It had less than a meter to travel, that's 10 milliseconds. The trident had to move several meters before that happened so had to have velocity above micro second and the reaction had to be close to nanosecond for this to occur.
Let's look at how long it takes Hellstrom to put up a force field
It only takes a thought. He could do that instantly. Your not getting any licks in on my team at all.
We however can make you insignificant.
Here he shrunk a monster that was taller than the New York skyline to the palm of his hand. Shrinking you to the size of an ant so your attacks mean nothing will be child's play.
May turn you into an ant, but if Funny Valentine gets stomped on, he'll just go to another dimension and replace himself with an alternate version of himself that is completely unharmed in any way and it'll feel as if their attacks were useless. Plus, Funny Valentine will bring multiple versions of himself though they won't have their own D4C and is basically normal human strength but can be used as a diversion.
Log in to comment