#1 Edited by WillPayton (14849 posts) - - Show Bio

vs

Alan Scott is pre-52 with full Starheart power (Starheart possessed).

Win by KO, death, or permanent incapacitation.

Who wins?

#2 Posted by XiiX (13584 posts) - - Show Bio

Alan Scott, or stalemate.

#3 Edited by Mxyzptlk_CV (1219 posts) - - Show Bio

Alan with full Starheart power wipes the floor with him

#4 Posted by WillPayton (14849 posts) - - Show Bio

Alan with full Starheart power wipes the floor with him

How?

#5 Posted by Ancient_0f_Days (14349 posts) - - Show Bio

Scott makes a toilet construct, takes a giant green sh*t, then he wipes his ass with JuggKurthNaut .... it wont give him the win, but it'll get the dirty job done and there's nothing JuggKurthNaut can do about it.

#6 Posted by czarny_samael666 (17185 posts) - - Show Bio

Unless Alan is Skyfaher level or have ability to cut Kuurth from his power source, Kuurth has to win.

#7 Posted by DanM (168 posts) - - Show Bio

Alan Scott has no way of putting Kuurth down, he will lose here.

#8 Edited by WillPayton (14849 posts) - - Show Bio

@danm said:

Alan Scott has no way of putting Kuurth down, he will lose here.

How does Kuurth put down Alan?

#9 Posted by HellionVulcan (4737 posts) - - Show Bio

Scott makes a toilet construct, takes a giant green sh*t, then he wipes his ass with JuggKurthNaut .... it wont give him the win, but it'll get the dirty job done and there's nothing JuggKurthNaut can do about it.

How can he get the job done ? Kuurth is insanely powerful .

#10 Edited by DanM (168 posts) - - Show Bio

@willpayton:

Well, unless you cling to the notion that Alan Scott is going to stay air born and never engage in actual close quarters combat or hand to hand combat, seeing as his constructs wont be able to do much he wont have much of a choice, when he does Kuurth imposes his physical will and utterly destroys him.

#11 Posted by WillPayton (14849 posts) - - Show Bio

@danm said:

@willpayton:

Well, unless you cling to the notion that Alan Scott is going to stay air born and never engage in actual close quarters combat or hand to hand combat, seeing as his constructs wont be able to do much he wont have much of a choice, when he does Kuurth imposes his physical will and utterly destroys him.

How will Kuurth physically harm Alan?

#12 Posted by ComicStooge (21046 posts) - - Show Bio

@danm said:

@willpayton:

Well, unless you cling to the notion that Alan Scott is going to stay air born and never engage in actual close quarters combat or hand to hand combat, seeing as his constructs wont be able to do much he wont have much of a choice, when he does Kuurth imposes his physical will and utterly destroys him.

...Since when does Alan go close quarter combat with people?

#13 Posted by WillPayton (14849 posts) - - Show Bio

@danm said:

@willpayton:

Well, unless you cling to the notion that Alan Scott is going to stay air born and never engage in actual close quarters combat or hand to hand combat, seeing as his constructs wont be able to do much he wont have much of a choice, when he does Kuurth imposes his physical will and utterly destroys him.

...Since when does Alan go close quarter combat with people?

He actually might, just for the fun of it...

Although he will most likely start off with constructs or mind-rape.

#14 Posted by DanM (168 posts) - - Show Bio

@comicstooge:

I wasn't stating he's known for close quarters fighting, I mentioned how I believe he would have no other chose given his constructs aren't likely to work on somebody as powerful as Kuurth, unless you consider running away a option.

#15 Edited by HellionVulcan (4737 posts) - - Show Bio

@willpayton said:

@comicstooge said:

@danm said:

@willpayton:

Well, unless you cling to the notion that Alan Scott is going to stay air born and never engage in actual close quarters combat or hand to hand combat, seeing as his constructs wont be able to do much he wont have much of a choice, when he does Kuurth imposes his physical will and utterly destroys him.

...Since when does Alan go close quarter combat with people?

He actually might, just for the fun of it...

Although he will most likely start off with constructs or mind-rape.

Kuurth can fly & mindrape is not possible either .

#16 Posted by WillPayton (14849 posts) - - Show Bio

@hellionvulcan said:

Kuurth can fly & mindrape is not possible either .

Alan could just attack him with magic.

#17 Posted by HellionVulcan (4737 posts) - - Show Bio

@hellionvulcan said:

Kuurth can fly & mindrape is not possible either .

Alan could just attack him with magic.

Kuurth got all kinds of attacks against him & all they did was nothing plus for his magic to work he'd have to be like a user said above near skyfather level for it to cut Kuurth from his source & that won't happen here .

#18 Posted by WillPayton (14849 posts) - - Show Bio

@willpayton said:

@hellionvulcan said:

Kuurth can fly & mindrape is not possible either .

Alan could just attack him with magic.

Kuurth got all kinds of attacks against him & all they did was nothing plus for his magic to work he'd have to be like a user said above near skyfather level for it to cut Kuurth from his source & that won't happen here .

Do you know what the Starheart is?

#19 Posted by czarny_samael666 (17185 posts) - - Show Bio

@hellionvulcan said:

@willpayton said:

@hellionvulcan said:

Kuurth can fly & mindrape is not possible either .

Alan could just attack him with magic.

Kuurth got all kinds of attacks against him & all they did was nothing plus for his magic to work he'd have to be like a user said above near skyfather level for it to cut Kuurth from his source & that won't happen here .

Do you know what the Starheart is?

Ok, but does it have standard skyfather level feats? Or abilities similar to sorceror supreme? That is how Magik released Colos from Cyttorak's power.

Other thing is that Satana couldn't even reach his mind. All mutants failed. Even Hope with all their power. Black Hole failed and Cyttorak's power allowed Juggernaut in the past to survive alive in Olbivion. With force field up, he is as close to be indestructible as anyone could.

Kuurth's power is important only because BFR isn't an option anymore.

#20 Posted by WillPayton (14849 posts) - - Show Bio

@willpayton said:

@hellionvulcan said:

@willpayton said:

@hellionvulcan said:

Kuurth can fly & mindrape is not possible either .

Alan could just attack him with magic.

Kuurth got all kinds of attacks against him & all they did was nothing plus for his magic to work he'd have to be like a user said above near skyfather level for it to cut Kuurth from his source & that won't happen here .

Do you know what the Starheart is?

Ok, but does it have standard skyfather level feats? Or abilities similar to sorceror supreme? That is how Magik released Colos from Cyttorak's power.

Other thing is that Satana couldn't even reach his mind. All mutants failed. Even Hope with all their power. Black Hole failed and Cyttorak's power allowed Juggernaut in the past to survive alive in Olbivion. With force field up, he is as close to be indestructible as anyone could.

Kuurth's power is important only because BFR isn't an option anymore.

Alan is around skyfather level. He was able to solo DC Earth, which included a lot of feats simultaneously. He's been able to seal a rift between realities. He's also shown feats such as time manipulation and planetary-scale energy attacks even when using a small fraction of his full power. I have scans if you want.

#21 Posted by czarny_samael666 (17185 posts) - - Show Bio

@czarny_samael666 said:

Ok, but does it have standard skyfather level feats? Or abilities similar to sorceror supreme? That is how Magik released Colos from Cyttorak's power.

Other thing is that Satana couldn't even reach his mind. All mutants failed. Even Hope with all their power. Black Hole failed and Cyttorak's power allowed Juggernaut in the past to survive alive in Olbivion. With force field up, he is as close to be indestructible as anyone could.

Kuurth's power is important only because BFR isn't an option anymore.

Alan is around skyfather level. He was able to solo DC Earth, which included a lot of feats simultaneously. He's been able to seal a rift between realities. He's also shown feats such as time manipulation and planetary-scale energy attacks even when using a small fraction of his full power. I have scans if you want.

1.Soloing DC Earth isn't something that would put someone on Skyfather level. Of course You can disagree and put names of people who are around Thanos or TI Magus level that were putted down in that story by Alan, which would bring him to level needed to cut Kuurth of Serpent's level.

2.Black Bolt's scream and Terrigen Bomb did the same on two different occasions. Thor has done the same here:

I could look for similar situations of people much below Skyfather level.

3.Time manipulation is an option. Depends how he used that.

4.Planet level energy attack is not greater than power of black hole, where Kuurth survived without stunning.

#22 Posted by WillPayton (14849 posts) - - Show Bio

1.Soloing DC Earth isn't something that would put someone on Skyfather level. Of course You can disagree and put names of people who are around Thanos or TI Magus level that were putted down in that story by Alan, which would bring him to level needed to cut Kuurth of Serpent's level.

Soloing DC Earth definitely puts you at skyfather level. He fought everyone on Earth from the Moon, while teleporting down for individual fights just for fun, like when he fought Supergirl and Power Girl. He caused city-destroying natural disasters throughout the world. He easily mind-controlled Dr Fate, Obsidian, Miss Martian, Power Girl, and others. He gave normal humans powers like gravity manipulation. And, he created constructs throughout the world to fight people like Donna Troy, Atom Smasher, Stargirl, Citizen Steel, Jade, Jay Garrick, Supergirl, Power Girl, Booster Gold, Captain Atom, Green Lantern, and a bunch of others.

2.Black Bolt's scream and Terrigen Bomb did the same on two different occasions. Thor has done the same here:

I could look for similar situations of people much below Skyfather level.

3.Time manipulation is an option. Depends how he used that.

4.Planet level energy attack is not greater than power of black hole, where Kuurth survived without stunning.

#23 Edited by czarny_samael666 (17185 posts) - - Show Bio

@willpayton:

1.No, it doesn't. In right circumstances Flash, Martian or Superman are able to also solo DC Earth. Context and ways matters.

Power Girl and Supergirl aren't even close to mentioned Thanos or Magus who also aren't Skyfather level.

Second part of Your point is much better.

EDIT:

I forgot to answer that in first place. Last time when Thanos was on Earth he gived his servants so huge power boost, that one of them KOd Thor with relative ease. As per telepathy feat - it is a great one, but why should it take down someone like Kuurth? We're talking about person immune to all kinds of attacks.

2.I don't see how these two scans proves me wrong in what I've said there.

3.His words make this feat lower and this way of time manipulation won't give him any advantage in battle. It would rather help his enemies, since they would be faster from Alan's perspective.

4.This is a good feat and all, but only planet level. Hell Lords, including Mephisto were below Serpent's power level, Odin didn't want to attack him, when he was at his weakest and all of them are above planet level.Kuurth would easily survive such an attack. Point is that to defeat Kuurth, You need to either:

- be able to cut him from Cyttorak (like Magick or Thor)

- be above Serpent (to depower him from Serpent's blessing)

Being planet level or even a bit above isn't enough.

#24 Posted by WillPayton (14849 posts) - - Show Bio

1.No, it doesn't. In right circumstances Flash, Martian or Superman are able to also solo DC Earth. Context and ways matters.

Power Girl and Supergirl aren't even close to mentioned Thanos or Magus who also aren't Skyfather level.

None of those you mentioned can solo DC Earth, except maybe Flash I guess. But even with Flash he'll have a hell of a time as soon as any magic user targets him. In any case, being able to solo DC Earth is a skyfather-level feat. Not just that, but he's magic personified, immortal, and immune from physical harm.

2.I don't see how these two scans proves me wrong in what I've said there.

I didnt say the scans were trying to prove you wrong. I just posted them to show the feat.

3.His words make this feat lower and this way of time manipulation won't give him any advantage in battle. It would rather help his enemies, since they would be faster from Alan's perspective.

Why would he speed up his opponent when he can slow him down? That makes no sense.

4.This is a good feat and all, but only planet level. Hell Lords, including Mephisto were below Serpent's power level, Odin didn't want to attack him, when he was at his weakest and all of them are above planet level.Kuurth would easily survive such an attack. Point is that to defeat Kuurth, You need to either:

- be able to cut him from Cyttorak (like Magick or Thor)

- be above Serpent (to depower him from Serpent's blessing)

Being planet level or even a bit above isn't enough.

Then maybe Alan can cut him off from his magical power supply. I dont really know.

On the other side, how does Kuurth take down Alan?

#25 Posted by czarny_samael666 (17185 posts) - - Show Bio

@willpayton:

1.In other words:

Unless there is someone who can match Skyfather in power level (let alone wizards, their power level varies), numbers doesn't matter. When Mephisto was allowed to came to Earth in full power (last issues of X-Factor), he just warped reality and claimed Earth as his kingdome (PIS took him down) and Mephisto isn't Serpent level.

2.Hmmm... Ok.

3.He can? BTW, is he slowing time or opponent?

4. Unless Alan is immune to brute force (I can belive that), than Kuurth doesn't have any reasons why he wouldn't be able to take him down. If he actually can't - then it would end in stalemate.

#26 Posted by WillPayton (14849 posts) - - Show Bio

3.He can? BTW, is he slowing time or opponent?

In that feat he only sped up time, but I see no reason why he cant slow it down.

4. Unless Alan is immune to brute force (I can belive that), than Kuurth doesn't have any reasons why he wouldn't be able to take him down. If he actually can't - then it would end in stalemate.

I think Alan is only vulnerable to physical damage if he wants himself to be, but I'm not an expert on him. The thing is, his "body" is made up of magical Starheart energy. He can regenerate it at will and has shown that heat vision (from Supergirl) and physical hits from Power Girl meant nothing to him.

#27 Posted by czarny_samael666 (17185 posts) - - Show Bio

@czarny_samael666 said:

3.He can? BTW, is he slowing time or opponent?

In that feat he only sped up time, but I see no reason why he cant slow it down.

@czarny_samael666 said:

4. Unless Alan is immune to brute force (I can belive that), than Kuurth doesn't have any reasons why he wouldn't be able to take him down. If he actually can't - then it would end in stalemate.

I think Alan is only vulnerable to physical damage if he wants himself to be, but I'm not an expert on him. The thing is, his "body" is made up of magical Starheart energy. He can regenerate it at will and has shown that heat vision (from Supergirl) and physical hits from Power Girl meant nothing to him.

3.A)Because whole place wasn't normal B)Because he didn't do it.

4.I am not an expert about him too. Problem isn't in Alan, it is in Kuurth, because writers made him almost unbeatable and his battles with beings higher than him, but lower than Serpent would end in stalemate (unless they can be hurt by physical damage).

#28 Posted by WillPayton (14849 posts) - - Show Bio

4.I am not an expert about him too. Problem isn't in Alan, it is in Kuurth, because writers made him almost unbeatable and his battles with beings higher than him, but lower than Serpent would end in stalemate (unless they can be hurt by physical damage).

But Kuurth can be hurt by magic, right? Or at least it's possible to cut him off from his magical power source?

#29 Posted by czarny_samael666 (17185 posts) - - Show Bio

@czarny_samael666 said:

4.I am not an expert about him too. Problem isn't in Alan, it is in Kuurth, because writers made him almost unbeatable and his battles with beings higher than him, but lower than Serpent would end in stalemate (unless they can be hurt by physical damage).

But Kuurth can be hurt by magic, right? Or at least it's possible to cut him off from his magical power source?

Two ways:

1.You're powerfull enough to take him from Serpent's power, like Franklin Richards.

2.You can cut him off Cyttorak's power, like Thor once did with Mjolnir (have in mind that Mjolnir also was able to cover and absorb explosion that was meant to destroy 1/5 of universe) and as Magik did by taking Colossusnaut to her dimension. Problem with this tactic, is that Kuurth thanks to Serpent's power can instantly came back and be powered by both gods again.