Aankin Skywalker(RoTS) vs Kylo-Ren

• Win by death
• In-character(Anakin against Dooku)
• Random Encounter
• Starting Distance is 10 metres
• Standard Gear
• Movie/Novel feats only

Location:

Anakin easy

Anakin stomps.

Anakin curbstomps.

Anakin. Kylo's force abilities are awesome but Anakin is more powerful (even Kylo thinks so). I'm not sure how he fights non injured but I doubt he's close to Anakin's tier.

Is this a troll thread? Anakin stomps hard.

Kylo's doubt in himself doesn't make it true. It was used in the movie as an insight into the character's dark side. Specifically his fear of inadequacy.

Anakin godstomps. Stopd using Kylo in threads, he can't beat any street leveler, well maybe rorsch in a good fight.

@extremis: That could be true. I didn't think of it like that. But nothing he did in the movies was anything Anakin didn't do in Clone Wars especially the force pushes. Except the blaster catch which was great!

Kylo is the more adept force user. He pulls information from people almost effortlessly. We did not see Anakin do that. Force pushes are basic and you know it. Kylo holding that blaster pulse midair while he has an interrogatory conversation - evidence of his multitasking while using the force. Then, he picks up on Finn's reluctance from afar like its happenstance. The dude is HIGHLY attuned to the Force in a way we haven't seen from Anakin.

Anakin schools him

@extremis:Kylo is only a more versatile force user, not more powerful. If he was so powerful with the force, Rey, who was never trained, wouldn't have been able to resist his mind reading. Like the mind trick, it's only effective against non force users. Kylo displayed nothing to suggest he was a superior force user, and it's painfully obvious in a duel Anakin would slaughter him.

Or maybe she's just that powerful? Would you so readily apply the same logic to Leia resisting Vader's mental probing in ANH, to suggest that Vader clearly can't be very powerful because someone from an extremely powerful Force-family managed to resist him?

Seriously, every Kylo thread thus far is just filled with these half-baked "he sucks" posts. Hopefully this simmers down in the future.

Honestly, even his saber skills seemed pretty weak against two people who seemed to have no real experience with one.

@bones309: It's been confirmed that he was injured to the point he could "barely stand" after being shot in the stomach by a miniature explosive, that his power was weakened from killing Han, that he was mostly toying with Finn and ended the fight quickly when he stopped, and that Rey has a lot of raw potential that makes any lack of formal training redundant. That all should have been obvious from the movie, but the movie-novel has flat out said it.

So, no. He's not just purposefully being made weak. Look into a little deeper than that. Training doesn't mean shit in Star Wars. Luke barely had any and look at what he was doing to Vader by RotJ.

@extremis: Yes but those aren't really offensive feats and Anakin is far more powerful than him in that regard. He could read Anakin's mind possibly but the degree to which Anakin used force speed and augmentation was much greater than Kylo could as of now. Kylo showed a lot of potential in the force and in how attuned he was in it but Anakin can use it in a batlle much more effectively.

So why even train? Even if we are to consider that Rey is so natural in the force she doesn't need training. Finn clearly is not. We see that with his fight with the Stormtrooper. If Ben/Kylo had any skills, that attack that wounded him shouldn't have even hit him. How was his power weakened by killing? If anything, shouldn't that have made him stronger with the darkside? If he was conflicted and that's why he got wounded. That's still a weakness that'd cost him in battle. Especially against someone who's an actual Jedi and strong with the force.

All in all, he showed more weaknesses than strength is what I'm saying. He faced no one impressive and mostly got his behind handed to him.

Anakin easy

Because while strong emotions and raw potential tend to bypass the need for training with Force users, training does help, especially for the people who aren't naturally really strong with the Force. Finn lost to an injured Kylo who wasn't going all out, so I don't see your issue.

It's irrefutable that he has "any skills".

"The lightsaber skills of Kylo Ren are, ironically, responsible for that elegant weapon and its combat forms remaining unknown to the galaxy at large. Kylo Ren betrayed the other Jedi students studying with Master Luke Skywalker, and is responsible for their destruction. He has well earned the nickname "Jedi Killer," whispered in the First Order ranks, as it was his deadly lightsaber skills that prevented the return of the Jedi Order."

Source

As for the killing weakening him (as if killing your own father isn't obviously enough going to take it's toll on someone, and it visually did):

"Stunned by his own action, Kylo Ren fell to his knees. Following through on the act ought to have made him stronger, a part of him believed. Instead, he found himself weakened."

--The Force Awakens Novelisation

Uh, he got wounded because Chewie cheap shotted him. As in, shot him directly in the stomach with an explosive bowcaster that can ragdoll groups of stormtroopers and smash stone. I think you can forgive him for having difficulty with a Force prodigy (Rey) after taking that, the emotional trauma and the blood loss over time.

Also, people throwing around shit like "Kylo has no skill" "Kylo sucks" "Kylo hasn't fought anyone impressive" seem to be completely lost on what the term relativity means. Sure, Kylo would get his ass kicked by Anakin. That doesn't mean he is literally shit, has no skill whatsoever, and has never fought anyone impressive. Relative to weaker characters, Kylo is impressive. As is Rey. Finn doesn't need to be impressive because even while hindered twice over Kylo dealt with him pretty quickly while holding back.

Wounded or not, I don't see how Finn lasted two seconds…let alone lived. He kept punching himself where he was wounded too.

"Any skills" is an expression. Clearly he had some, but not enough.

So he got cheap shotted after cheap killing a man in his 70's. Shouldn't he have sensed Chewie's emotions and attack long before it struck? Either deflecting with his saber or dodging with a force leap? Not sure how Wookies age but Chewie is pretty old too.

I never said he sucked or had no skills but the fact that we've seen him face no one of real skill/experience is true. Kylo should lose to his idol. That's mostly what I'm saying and you seem to agree. So what's the problem?

To be honest any prequel hero beats any original or new Jedis/Siths, They were made into pretty much demi-gods in those movies.

@bones309: Vader knew Leia was his daughter and as seen by how he was trying to convert Luke to the dark side, it's likely he didn't use his full power. Kylo did use his full power and he looked very weak doing so.

Kylo catching the blaster shot was great, until he couldn't do it again when Chewbacca shot him...

@i_like_swords: Is the Force Awakens novel canon? And is Ren going to be appearing in any of the novels written and published during the period between episodes VII and VIII?

@nfactor1995: Most things Star Wars puts out now, movie novels included, are canon. Not sure.

Anakin wins. Faster, stronger, and more skilled. Kylo would be considered a dark jedi acolyte at the moment. Not even full sith yet.

Why you're telling me this I don't know but Vader didn't know Leia was his daughter until he sensed Luke's thoughts in Return.

Anakin easy would win

Anakin with a difficultly level of near Zero.......

Don't forget she also took the light saber I out of left field when Kylo was trying to pick it up.

I'm going anakin

There's no excuse for Ren being tagged by Finn. And even if Rey is strong in the force, she has no lightsaber skill and the fact that she beat Ren shows how low his skills are.

Anakin stomps.

I almost feel bad for Kylo at this point...

I disagree. Versatility as an indicator of strength. You have not accounted for the abilities Kylo has which Anakin does not. There is disparity there. And the film used that moment you mention to showcase the light side ultimately overpowering the dark side. In all likelihood, Rey will be the strongest force user of all anyway. (Luke being stronger than Vader and Rey likely becoming stronger than them both)

It is an offensive feat. We've seen how Kylo's force use on the mind exhausts and pains people immensely. So we can clear that up.

I don't know what you mean by augmentation.

And with what examples is Anakin more effective in battle? Anakin pushing endless droids over in those god forsaken prequels? Weak. Force push is basic and they can both do it.

Kylo is much more attuned to the force (see my previous reply - to you which you won't bother to refute) and has more skills in his wheelhouse.

... Just why? I mean, Kylo losing was PIS, in the first half he seemed very badass. His training is incomplete and all that but how is he a match for Anakin?

Anakin ? The one that locked the door to slaughter every semi jedis, bots and took out masters in the movie? Vs this fool

Anakin solos TFAverse

Anakin easily

If Kylo can use the Force on Skywalker fast enough, he could win. Otherwise, Anakin stomps

@extremis: Versatility has never equaled strength, it is only an indicator of knowledge. Anakin was able to increase his physical stats with the force. This was apparent in his battle with Obi Wan in RotS. Kylo never showed capable of doing that, do by your logic that makes Anakin superior. I respectfully disagree with your opinion, based on the fact both Anakin and Kylo had different abilities shown with the force, and Anakin's feats were stronger.

@extremis: The only time he ever used that was when he had people already captured or defeated. He failed to use that against Rey and Finn.

Force Augmentation is augmenting your physical stats with the force. Something Anakin Skywalker is amazing at and something that he easily outclasses Kylo in. This is evident when he used the Force to become so strong that he broke the ground between his and Ventress' feet with strikes. And he was able to hit Dooku's blade so hard it felt like meteors crashing down. Its an exaggeration but you get the point. These are easily examples of how Anakin is way more powerful in the force than Kylo is in combat.

And yes Anakin has used Force Push more effectively than Kylo. As seen in Clone Wars. It may be a basic attack but that doesn't mean that everyone's level of Force Push is the same. Anakin was able to capture oppenents in the air mid battle and apply a powerful push and he was also able to use it effectivly in battle against Obi Wan. Kylo used it one against Rey who wasn't prepared for a fight then he never used it again.

Kylo may have abilities that Anakin has never shown or done but he's not more attuned or more powerful in the force. Anakin is the chosen one, he was aproaching the power level of Yoda and Windu by the Clone Wars end. Kylo isn't more attuned he simply has different abilities, abilities that won't help him here.

Anakin. This is an extreme mismatch.

Anakin wipes the floor with this guy.

Versatility absolutely indicates strength in the force. It also indicates raw talent and knowledge as you say. Those most attuned to the Force have been shown to be its strongest wielders.

What feats of Anakin's are stronger? You've provided no examples.

This is evident when he used the Force to become so strong that he broke the ground between his and Ventress' feet with strikes.

Isn't that outside of the film universe? I thought we weren't using that stuff as per the OP.

And he was able to hit Dooku's blade so hard it felt like meteors crashing down. Its an exaggeration but you get the point. These are easily examples of how Anakin is way more powerful in the force than Kylo is in combat.

This is descriptive language and an exaggeration, as you even attest to. How is this a fair example of greater ability?

And yes Anakin has used Force Push more effectively than Kylo. As seen in Clone Wars.

Once again, Clone Wars doesn't count...

Kylo may have abilities that Anakin has never shown or done but he's not more attuned or more powerful in the force.

As I mentioned earlier, Kylo appears more attuned to the force as he picks up Finn's treachery even while holding a blaster pulse mid-air while he is walking away from both of them. This is vast skill in multi-tasking with the force and pure attunement in effortlessly picking up on that. You have provided no examples for Anakin on this point.

Anakin is the chosen one, he was aproaching the power level of Yoda and Windu by the Clone Wars end.

Again, Clone Wars has no bearing here.

@extremis: My fault for using non canon examples. However the Dooku feat whole being descriptive language, was still a valid example for Anakin augmenting his strength in battle to over come Dooku. It exaggerated the feat to show how it felt to Tyranus, someone who was giving Yoda a good fight. I'm pretty sure you can use logic and figure out how that's a testament to far greater ability.

And yes that's a good example of multitasking but that doesn't mean that he's more attuned in the force. If anything Anakin augmenting his stats against numerous opponents while concentrating on parrying and dodging lightsaber blows in addition to his force precognition is a far greater example of multitasking. Not to mention IN THE MOVIE you can clearly see Anakin fight Cin Dralling, who is a master swordsman, while choking two Jedi. I rest my case

You are aware that the Clone Wars ended during Episode 3 right? Anakin by that time was well on his way to being more powerful and Windu, Yoda and Palpatine. George Lucas had even stated it "one would have to be either Windu or Yoda to compete with Palpatine," and that if Anakin had suffered none of his injuries, he could have beaten the Emperor"

And Sidious even told this to Yoda "Soon Lord Vader will become more powerful than either of us". Anakin during Episode 3 was extremely more powerful in the force than Kylo was. Its just common sense at this point.

Kylo got the crap beaten out of him by Rey,Anakin stomps badly.

@extremis:

All these feats are better than anything Kylo done. Especially the last feat. The new Canon Encyclopedia actually states nothing of a amp. Simply that out of desperation Anakin manage to force grab both the Son and Daughter with his force power.

Father tell Anakin that he may save only one of the two Jedi, presenting Anakin a near-impossible choice. Rejecting the ultimatum, Anakin overpowers the Force to tame both winged creatures. - Page 196 Ultimate Star Wars

Nothing about amps. Anakin reach deep and flat out over powered the Son and Daughter for a short time.