Is Luthor really smarter than Batman?

Pre-New Batman has had some amazing intelligence feats over the years. Some of which included creating a Lazerous Pit, outsmarting Metron and making Brother Eye. We all know that Pre-52 Batman was a mental monster but is Lex all that smarter? Is he even smarter or are they more equal than you thought? Discuss!

Luthor has to face Superman more often that Batman, this means he has less time that Batman, this shows he came with plans faster, the technology faster and can change his plans faster.

Knowledge, Wisdom and Intelligence arent the same.

Batman is more wise that Luthor, what so ever he lacks the imagination that Luthor has.

Batman needs a secret identity, Lex dont.

Just read Batman Future End 1.They have developed mutual respect for each other.They are both intelligent and can outsmart each other.

I would probably give Lex the slight edge but they're pretty much equal.

I always thought that Lex was portrayed as being smarter.

@deathpoolthet1000 said:

Uh, no. Batman invents his own shit all the time.

And it's not like Luthor builds his own death machines most of the time, he gets his scientist flunkies to build them for him. The only time he truly built his own shit was in the Silver Age.

Luthor faces Superman more often than Batman because he actively picks fights with the guy. Superman mostly minds his own business, unconcerned that Luthor is planning yet another scheme to destroy him. It's not that impressive when the foe you're trying to kill isn't even aware or concerned with your plans 90% of the time, because he has a world to save.

And that's not even getting into all those times that Luthor teamed up with other villains, or used super-powered flunkies to do the dirty job of getting into fisticuffs with Superman.

Batman has plenty of originality and imagination. Don't know where you got that from.

As for the secret identity...well, no shit. Completely irrelevant.

Luthor is brilliant. So is Batman. The only difference is that one is a hero, the other is an asshole.

@orangebat: Batman most amazing technology is actually based on reverse engineering.

Also Batman uses hi scientist as much as Lex Luthor, also isnt about working harder is about working smarter, Lex dont need to do thing by himself.

Also Luthor isnt a fighter, Batman is, at the end Batman plans always depends on him going to punch Superman in the face.

Luthor plans dont.

Luthor isnt an asshole is a "villain".

The only reason why Batman can beat Lex is because Lex gets arrogant.

I dont get why people keeps this Batman is pretty much smarter that Lex, Tony, Reed and Victor.

He isnt smarter that them, he just have more fanboys.

Take cover my friend! Put your flame shields up!

Oh yeah,don't forget the claims of being able to outsmart the likes of Thanos....

Both of them are really smart.

Both are really smart, just in different ways.

Jmarshmallow

Well take the fact Thanos got his ass kicked by Squirrel Girl and it start looking less harder and less impressive.

The real issue is both Lex and Batman suffer from the ever constant narrator/fan wank. They will both be described as smarter or better than anyone else around constantly even though it is very rarely backed up by feats on panel. But it is said a lot, a whole lot. By writers, fans, casual fans, and often times the narrator box on the page. Batman is constantly believed to be perfectly capable of taking down the entire JLA easily without breaking a sweat because he is Batman even though realistically he should never in a thousand years be capable of touching Flash, Superman, or Wonderwoman.

The problem is bigger with Batman that actually with Lex, since Lex isnt being sold as the normal human every single comic book and panel he is in.

To be fair,she's the queen of PIS. I believe she even beat Wolverine,Deadpool,Uatu,and Dr Doom. I don't know how the hell that happened.....

I'd say they are near equals, Luthor has a slight edge in tech but Batman has a slight edge on everything else. Also Batman has outsmarted many people who are said to be smarter than him including Luthor.

It doesn't matter, see, every single time I try to think outside his toybox, he builds a new box around me. Apophenia. I've been driven literally in.sane, trying to get him to loosen up - The Joker

Actually taking Thanos down isnt PIS, Thanos weakness is he wants to lose and that is canon.

But sure when she take down Dr.Doom was PIS since Victor always wants to win.

Oh yeah, and you should remember Superman is also smarter.

Say again? I've never really heard that Thanos thing before....

seems.....weird.

But in any case,we don't know how she allegedly beat him,but it certainly didn't seem like it was from wit.

In any case,I thought we were to take those as joke showings.

Pre-Flashpoint I would have said Lex was smarter, but post it's mostly a tossup depending on who's writing. I'm still waiting for the other shoe to drop, but I think the current Lex/Bruce dynamic writers are running with is pretty cool so far.

http://www.cracked.com/article_19434_the-6-most-ridiculous-superhero-weaknesses_p2.html

This wasnt the first time i hear this and i did read some comic that look to point Thanos cant win because he feels unworthy of a major victory.

if superman is smarter than batman why doesn't he act like it ? i was watching Justice League the other day and Superman says "you're the smart one" in an episode of a Better world.

Just going to copy/paste myself:

Superman generally possesses or creates superior technology, understands scientific principles and hypotheses better than most experts in the related fields, and has made some genuinely wacky stuff like machines that make alternate dimensions and whatnot. Batman's niche is more in the fields of strategic/tactical thinking and analytical ability. I don't remember who, but someone on this site said Superman is smarter than Batman in the way that an advanced supercomputer is smarter than the world's smartest man. If you need to build a rocket to fly to the end of the universe, Superman will come up with a design in a few minutes (and then probably build it for you as well); if you need someone to toss around war strategies and analyze a foe's behavioral patterns to predict their next plan of action, you're better off asking Batman. It's why Batman is usually portrayed as smarter when they're together in books like Superman/Batman or JLA; Batman's knowledge is best suited for in-the-moment conflict scenarios (which comprise about 95% of all superhero adventures); Superman's knowledge, not so much.

Judging someone's intelligence by winning fights? Who said "never pick a fight with a stupid person, he'll beat you by experience"?

They specialise in different fields and expertises. There is no such thing as the smartest man. Is Bill Gates smarter than Albert Einstein because he could design better computers, for example?

I agree with this. It's not like with strength where you can say "Well this guy can lift more than that guy so he's stronger." How can you say for example, a scientist who specializes in one particular field is smarter than one who specializes in another? You can't. That's why I don't get how people can argue who's smarter than who unless it's clearly obvious (like Dr. Doom is obviously smarter than Rhino) when you get to the genius level it gets hard to tell who's smarter than who. Even Reed Richards the smartest man in all of comics has admitted that there are people who know more in certain area's than him. I think Lex is a bit smarter than Batman but not by a huge margin. It's like how Superman is stronger than Shazam but not by all that much, Shazam could beat Superman and do a lot of the same strength feats. Just like Batman could challenge Lex and do a lot of the same intellectual feats he does.

@cloakx14 said:

Something that the writers admit to was doing too much for Batman, and making Superman much weaker. Part of that was making Batman much much more of a tech expert.

I'd say Lex is still smarter, he is known as "the world's smartest man" in DC.

Superman doesn't use his intelligence much even his own solo adventures,maybe once a year tops.

Pre-52 Lex is obviously smarter but New 52 for now, not exactly. Although the writers are trying to show us that they are both geniuses and can outsmart each other but it seems like Batman has the upper hand in the intellectual field.

@entropy_aegis: its like they make him naive on purpose. He was Smarter in man of steel in the sense that people aren't who they seem.

In new 52 they seem equals.

I think they both have their area of fields they excel at. A mathematician can't just go cure cancer. I forgot what I was reading but there was an issue where batman announced Lexcorp stole plane designs from wayne tech. It's not because Lex is stupid, but in this case wayne enterprises did something better than him, superman also pointed out he could make a few of bruce's gadgets better with a few tweaks but never bothered saying anything. They all are smart in their own way.

Lex is smarter in some areas, batman is smarter in others as shown in justice league 33. However both are amazing geniuses anyway, and they're basically equals.

I've always took it as they are smart in both similar and different ways. I actually give the edge to Batman. If you took Stephen Hawking and the worlds greatest detective (real life, not batman) and asked them to solve a crime, I'm sure the detective would 99% of the time solve it, and faster, than Hawking.

Luthor has the much higher IQ but that doesn't make him smarter....absolute intelligence and smartness aren't always the same.

Actually Batman is smarter.

I think Lex is smarter.

Who knows? Certainly no one in this thread.

Lex should be smarter. Batman would be way to OP if he was as smart as Lex.

@orangebat: @deathpoolthet1000: They both invent their own stuff, but they have their scientist and employees do the grunt work for them, ei welding, screwing in bolts, putting pieces together.

For example, the New Hellbat armor that Batman had, Batman came up with the design, functionality and theory for it, he just had the Justice League do the grunt work like Supes forging it inside the sun.

Batman has come up with his best creations, such as the Insider Suit, the Brothereye, the time machine from Future's End, the Hellbat armor, his new stealth suit that hides him from the EM Spectrum etc.

Lex has comes up with his best creations, including cloning Superboy, cloning Rao and even cloning Doomsday which even the New Gods deemed impossible,

The idea that they had others invent these for them is pretty borderline retarded tbh.

There was little evidence to support Lex being smarter pre52, there is no evidence new52.

I don't get this argument. That's like saying Superman is OP because he's much more powerful than Lex and most of his villains. Or how Iron Man can be called OP if he's capable of building Phoenixbuster suits. None of Iron Man's rogues come even close to the power of the Phoenix yet I've yet to hear him get called OP. IMO Lex is smarter but Batman is still close to his level.

Lex certainly thinks he's smarter. Bats just knows he's smart enough to get the job done, and that's all he cares about.

@deathpoolthet1000: its an established fact that Bruce and let are two of the smartest people in the dcu. You seem to be making it sound like Bruce isn't even in lex's arena which is just wrong in my opinion.but im not exactly trying to argue the point just sick of people downplaying Bruce's intelligence because of most of his recent portrayals.

Plot twist

No isnt a fact, its a fact that Bruce is one of the smartest humans in DC, both not that he is as smart as Lex and not that he is smart in the same things and in the same way.

Ray Palmer.

Toymaster.

Professor Ivo.

Ted Kord.

Could as the the matter of fact be smarter that Bruce.

Its like the fact Detective Chimp, The Riddler, Elongated Man and The Question could be better detectives or have some detectives skills he doesnt have.

@deathpoolthet1000: never said he was AS smart bud.I admit I'm no expert just trying to have a conversation fella.I'd be happy to learn more.

Why automatically assume I want to argue or disprove you?

I said its a fact that Bruce and let are Two of the smartest in the dcu. You said no its not then repeated what I said in another way. Stop assuming we disagree and re read my comment and you will see that we actually Do agree.

Lex and Bruce are two of the 3 smartest humans in the dcu. I Did not say one or the other is smarter because Intelligence is relative.whether you are speaking IQ or just application of applied sciences, engineering,street smarts etc. That's why I didn't argue who was best its a much more complicated discussion I hoped to have with someone who didn't just want to debate.

@kdub_inc_: You said its a fact, even when is an opinion.

Lex is best; yes.

Just look at how Superman talks about both characters: Superman says Lex could change the world if he ever decided to be good. Lex could stop all wars, end hunger, usher in an endless Golden Age of human accomplishment.

Batman, for all intents and purposes, has never been spoken about in that regard.

I'm waiting for the Batman: Red Son book. Oh, wait, didn't Luthor manipulate Bruce into a fight he couldn't win in Red Son? And in Luthor: Man of Steel...and in Forever Evil. I'm noticing a trend here...

Nah, those writers just hate Batman, probably.

Superman describe Batman as the most dangerous person on earth.

Just read Batman Future End 1 to know how much Lex respect Bruce

If u r using non cannon events than in Kindom Come Bruce also outsmart Lex, also I think military hired Bruce in Red Son to defeat Superman.

@deathpoolthet1000: I have read it in DC handbooks they cite Bruce Wayne lex luthor and I forget who as the 3 smartest people. I could be wrong but I have seen that on several occasions and you even said your self you take it as fact that he is one of the smartest I the dcu I don't even know what point you are trying to make right now.

You said I was wrong and said what I said all in the same first reply

Now you are just trying to contradict me at any cost.

I just wanted to talk amongst comic fans.not debate.but I'm having to argue over just the words that are clearly said between us that you can read right there.its silly lol. I don't come here to argue but talk to people who enjoy comics.you clearly enjoy arguing to no end.

And when I said Bruce Wayne,lex luthor I didn't mean in that order I Never Said One was smarter than the other.so stop acting like I did.foolishness.

@superguy1591: that's a lot of big talk. But that's all it is. Besides, superman has said similar things about Batman, and batman just outsmarted lex in justice league. They are pretty much equals. Lex is better in some areas, bruce is better in others.