Who do you think never should have become an Avenger?

Which hero is or was an Avenger but you think they never should have been/be an Avenger?

I'll probably get a lot of flack for this, but Wolverine.

Quite literally I can't stand that he seems to be in so many books at the same time and I just never got the hype about him.

Sorry, but for me it's a tie

Wolverine and Spiderman

Wolverine was defined as too rough around the edges for the Avengers.

Spider-man was the quintessential loner.

They both lost quite of bit of their personality and character on the Avengers when their inclusion was unnecessary.

Spider-Man, Wolverine, Storm, Eric O'Grady, Maybe others.(Black Widow?)

This is probably just opinion based.

>.> <.< D-Man

..............

1. Wolverine

2. Spider-Man

3. Scott Lang & Eric O'Grady ( should never have been Ant-Men )

@magnetic_eye: Would you have wanted Hank to remain in the role, or have someone else take over?

Nova any one of them because I said so

Spider-Man. I'm all for evolving the character but not like that.

Storm. Her inclusion lasted all of a few issues before leaving. She was a pretty pointless addition to the roster, in my opinion.

Storm and Sandman

Spider-Man

Wolverine (and for that matter, all of the X-Men except Beast)

The Fantastic Four

@magnetic_eye: don't hate just because Scott's starring in the movie and you're afraid that Hank will be phased out.

I may catch a few slugs to the grill here, but Iron Man. Iron Man from the comics is incredibly douchetastic and seems to be at the root cause of every catastrophe that's happened in the Marvel Universe. He's far from an actual hero, seeing as how he's completely self-absorbed, self-centered....well that's redundant, but I think it makes my point.

I also agree with the wise individual who mentioned Eric O'Grady. There's a reason the book was called "Irredeemable Ant-Man."

Wolverine-always preferred his character in solo or x-men comics. Eric o Grady- I've always liked the ant man character but we don't need three of them especially 3 how they are all avengers. Storm- see wolverine.

Storm, hank pym.

Spider-Man works well with others, and is a great team player, but he isn't a team guy. He really doesn't have the mentality to be a team-based hero, which almost essentially requires you to be a full-time hero. Peter is a hero first, he's put his own personal desires like scientific pursuit on the back burner for it, but he still tries to fill in much of his personal life with friends and family. Not to mention he's a bit of a loner when it comes to heroing, he doesn't want anyone else getting hurt as a result of his actions and decisions (like in EOTE).

War machine (just like iron man just with different weaponry)

Wolverine (works better alone)

Fantastic Four (They've got their own team)

The X-Men excluding Beast (They were preþy useless in the team)

Spiderman (He's not good in teams for long periods in time, he's better alone.If they wanted to evolve the character there is so many more ways to do it not like that)

Antmen excluding Hank Pym (There'sno need to have more than one Antman, even though Hank's robot Ultron brought diaster and killed heroes suchas She-Hulk)

Welll this my thoughts anyway.

Hank has had several identities, all of which I really like and I believe should be exclusive to him. It's what made him different to all other Marvel characters and is part of the appeal for me. In terms of Ant-Man, I would've liked him to reprise the role from time to time.

No, it's far from hate. It's just personal preference for the original character.

@magnetic_eye: ok, that's fair I suppose. A lot of people complaining about Scott lately are just some very insecure Hank Pym fans who are only angry because of the reason I listed above, so I suppose im a bit defensive. Not that I'm not a Hank Pym fan myself, I just happen to like Scott better as Ant-Man.

Wolverine (real non sense for me. Logan alone in Madripoor and sometimes, rarely, with the x-men. That how he should have stayed).

3-D Man

Abyss

Ant Man (Lang)

Ares

Black Widow (unless it's Secret Avengers)

Blade

Blue Marvel (same reason as Hyperion and Sentry)

Bucky (same reason as Black Widow)

Cannonball

Captain Britain

Daredevil

Death Cry

Doctor Strange

Echo

O'Grady

Ex Nihilo

Flash

Hellcat

Hyperion (same reason as Sentry and Blue Marvel)

Iron Fist

Jim Hammond

Madam Masque

Moon Knight

Quake

Quasar

Rogue

Sentry (same reason as Hyperion and Blue Marvel)

Shang Chi

Spider-Man

Star Brand

Storm

Sunspot

Red Hulk

Wolverine

@dernman: I agree with most of these. What's wrong with Scott and Doctor Strange though.

@avenging_x_bolt: The way I see Dr Strange is his only concern is protecting this realm from magical events and wouldn't have time or interest for anything else like normal superheroing. If he was going to join a team it would be one made up of other magical oriented characters which he would be the leader of.

Scott to me is ...how do I put this......You know how the Avengers have their universe, the FF theirs, and the X-Men their own? Well Scott, I always felt Scott was a better fit to support other universes. That the whole superhero life/lifestyle isn't as big of a driving force in his life as it is in others. Plus it helps in separating his character from Pym's which I feel greatly benefits both characters.

Abraham Lincoln.

Oh, he didn`t. Splendid.

He may have been a hero, but he had huge flaws.

http://listverse.com/2013/12/05/10-reasons-lincoln-was-secretly-a-terrible-president/

I know. It sucks. Well, he wasn`t a completely bad guy, I guess.

Not in comics, at least.

Actually, he`s pretty awesome in comics.

...

I vote for Abraham Lincoln, to join the Avengers.

@dernman:

You never explain the reason behind Blue Marvel, Hyperion and Sentry. So what about Mockingbird and Hawkeye ?

Hawkeye.

Not even joking or trolling there.

Wiccan and Speed.

Wolverine shouldn't have been added, I can live with Spider-man being on the team but his appearances should have been rationed.

Daredevil.

Beata

All the Xmen that are involve shouldn't be in the Avengers team. I thought that was stupid.

there's been lots of Avengers that simply didn't interest me, like Swordsman, Mantis, Black Knight, Doctor Druid, Firebird, Living Lightning, Deathcry, 3-D Man, or countless other forgettable nobodies, but I wouldn't say I thought any of them shouldn't be Avengers.

People saying actually good characters like Spider-man, Wolverine, Daredevil, Black Widow, Hawkeye, Hulk, Dr.Strange or Blue Marvel never should have been Avengers just baffles me.

just my opinion. not trying to start anything.

@oldnightcrawler: I don't think people are saying that they don't deserve to be Avengers, just that they shouldn't be (if that makes any sense). I'm fine with most of the additions myself but I also thin they'd be better served in other places.

like in other stories? a character can be on the Avengers and be in other books at the same time, many of them are.

I mean, that's sort of what the Avengers are is a big team-up book.

I think all of the X-Men, minus Wolverine, shouldn't be part of the Avengers. Wolverine has already been on other teams (Alpha Flight) before joining up with the X-Men, and I think he is still ideal as an Avenger because he has been on his own so much. He knows how to work with and without a team which is always a benefit.

Plus, I don't like the exclusivity of the X-Men as compared to the Avengers. One is specifically for mutants, and the other is specifically to protect the world. I would rather they remain separate and help each other out every so often for the greater good. Seeing X-Men as Avengers wouldn't bother me so much if there were a few Avengers on the X-Men side of things.

Starfox the guy's powers make him a rapist

@oldnightcrawler: well the Avengers were meant to be a decent sized group of Earth Mightiest Heroes. These days damn near anyone can get in.

A lot of these heroes would be better fitted for different teams/stories.

@avenging_x_bolt:

Ares (excluding the Dark Avengers)

My reasoning as well.

Black Widow-much better suited for the Invader or a spy based team

Agreed BW is a spy she shouldn't be working out in the open or do press conferences for the media like the Avengers do.

Blade *should be on a supernatural or uk based team*

I see him more of a solo character but agreed that if he was on a team it should be supernatural. Also agreed on UK based.

Bucky (same reason as Black Widow)

yep

Cannonball (should stay as an X-Man)

yep IMO He was meant to follow Cyclops footsteps but Marvel had other characters pass him by.

Captain Britain ( Should be on Excalibur or another UK team)

Agreed

Daredevil ( should stick to the gritty streets of the MU.

My reasoning as well.

Flash (not really a fitting team for Venom imo)

agreed

Iron Fist (should remain with heroes for hire or the defenders)

My reasoning as well. I'm glad Marvel seems to be reviving the Martial Arts marvel corner of the MU where he best fits. Bring back Luke Cage and Iron Fists Hero's for Hire.

Jim Hammond (No need for multiple Torches at the same time)

Agreed He wasn't a Golden Age character they needed to being back. He was best used for history.

Rogue (should stay an X-Man)

Agreed Out of X-Men characters she isn't one who should crossover.

Storm(should stay an X-man)

yep

Sunspot(should stay an X-man)

yep

Red Hulk (excluding the Dark Avengers)

If forced I guess he fits in Dark Avengers but to be honest I have such a dislike for him that I wouldn't mind if he just stopped being.

Wolverine (should be an X-Man or solo)

yep

@dernman: *brofist*

yeah, I get that.. but to say that some characters "never should have become Avengers" implies that the range of different types of characters who have been Avengers would be way less diverse, and, to my mind, much less interesting.

I mean, to me, what makes the Avengers interesting as a concept is that most lineups are made up of characters from their own disparate mythologies or sub-genres; so for the Avengers to be limited to a specific genre themselves seems to totally miss the point. I mean, a huge part of the appeal is that you get to see characters who seemingly have nothing in common interact, because it's those interactions that are most interesting about the stories.

In hindsight it's easy to see how a character like Black Widow or Hawkeye might be more in their element in another, more specific genre book, and those books are out there, but that Hawkeye thought he could be in the same league as Iron Man or Thor, and ended up being an inspiration to both of them, is a big part of not only what makes Hawkeye special, but what makes the Avengers special too.

Some people seem to see the Avengers in terms of other superhero teams, but to me that also misses the point. You see all this nonsense about how members of the X-men or the FF shouldn't be Avengers, but in my mind the X-men and FF represent just two specific corners of the MU, with their own specific themes and types of stories, the same way we might think of Black Widow or Dr.Strange inhabiting more specific corners because of their individual strengths/sub-genres; the Avengers, on the other hand, have always been at the center of this rich mosaic.

They're where the best and most interesting of all the corners come together; they're the embodiment of the overlapping sub-genres that you only see in a shared universe. They're like the ultimate team-up book, and that is (and should be) their strength, because that's really what makes them most special.

I mean, I'm not saying I don't see the appeal of more specialized books like the Secret Avengers, the Illuminati, or what have you, because those books can play to what some specific characters thematically have in common that other characters don't, but for the Avengers themselves, as a team or a book, I really think it should be anything goes.

I mean, characters like Wolverine, Daredevil, Black Widow, Hawkeye, Hulk, Dr.Strange, Namor, Black Panther, etc, etc, may all have perfectly good reasons for not being on the team (or for the team not calling them up when they're having a membership drive or whatever), and if none of them ever were again, that would make sense. But that they all have been a part of the team doesn't just add to their individual characters, it definitively is what makes the team and it's stories so diverse and interesting.

I actually agree with this. Richard Rider should have never been in the Secret Avengers(even though it was for only 3 issues). He did more good when he was with the New Warriors and Sam should stick with the New Warriors as well.

I'll keep my list simple. The Fantastic Four, any member of the X-Men and Spider-Man. Dr Strange and Daredevil were weird fits as well.

Basically if you are a member of another team, then no. If you are a legendary solo artist, then probably no.

Starfox and Deathcry are the only members I really have huge issues with.

So Captain America, Thor, and the Hulk shouldn't have been Avengers?

What do you guys think the Avengers are anyway?

Really? No-one's mentioned hawkeye? It just seems like he doesn't really do anything other than shoot those arrows. He is a direct simulacrum of green arrow. He seems better as a loner hero, like punisher, than with a team of heavy hitters like hulk, iron man, spider man, thor, etc.

.....

This is fair.