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    Emma Frost

    Character » Emma Frost appears in 6154 issues.

    Emma Frost is a fictional character originating from Marvel Comics. Originally starting off as a super villain and enemy of the X-Men, during which she was the White Queen of the Hellfire Club, Emma Frost is a powerful mutant telepath who can transform herself into organic diamond. She has become a prominent member of the X-Men. A gifted teacher, Emma is renowned for her beauty, wit, and sense of fashion.

    Emma And Cassandra Nova

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    Foreverbbyily

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    #1  Edited By Foreverbbyily

    Well we all know that Cassandra Nova is a insanely powerful charater but what is the relationship to Emma the reason i ask this is because didnt Emma gain her secondary mutation(diamond form) from Cassandra Nova...if so why did Cassandra give it to her?
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    nikbackm

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    #2  Edited By nikbackm

    The last issue of the Torn arc (AXM #18) outright stated (or as good as) that the flashback scene (in AXM #13) where Emma met Nova was a false memory implanted by latter to make it easier for her to control Emma. Re-read the scene where Scott, Beast and Wolverine explains everything to the others, especially the part where "a voice inside her"  suggested to Emma that "even Genosha was all her fault".
     
    Additionally, it's never been suggested later on (in handbooks or comics) that Nova was responsible for the diamond form, it's always been referred to as a secondary mutation. 
     
    Also keep in mind that the Cuckoos (Emma's genetic daughters) have manifested diamond forms, was that Nova as well? (Sublime harvested the eggs for cloning them well before Nova arrived on the scene).

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    xerox_kitty

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    #3  Edited By xerox_kitty
    @nikbackm said:

    "Additionally, it's never been suggested later on (in handbooks or comics) that Nova was responsible for the diamond form, it's always been referred to as a secondary mutation.   Also keep in mind that the Cuckoos (Emma's genetic daughters) have manifested diamond forms, was that Nova as well? (Sublime harvested the eggs for cloning them well before Nova arrived on the scene). "

    I has been insinuated.  That's why there was the flashback to Nova offering to save Emma from the Sentinel attack on Genosha.  The idea was that she triggered a dormant secondary mutation that allowed Emma to survive the destruction of Genosha, and in exchange she planted her subconscious into Emma's mind and buried it so deeply that even Emma wasn't aware.  Therefore, Emma would be used as Nova's tool to disrupt & distract the X-Men, while using Kitty Pryde's phasing powers to retrieve the remains of Nova's body. 
     
    The idea that she triggered the secondary mutation, doesn't mean that Nova created the secondary mutation.  In other words, it was always there, but she acted as an outside stimulus to activate it.   Therefore, it's reasonable to believe that the Cuckoos could develop that diamond form without Nova.  

    If it was proven that it didn't happen, that's fine.  But it clearly was insinuated.  Otherwise people would have had that impression in the first place :)
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    nikbackm

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    #4  Edited By nikbackm
    @xerox-kitty: I meant suggested OUTSIDE of the AXM Torn arc.
     
     The Nova flashback at the beginning there was as good as "undone" in the final part of the story. People seem to remember the former, the latter, not so much. It was of course easy to miss it, as it was pretty much buried in all the other expository dialogue.
     
    Anyway, the end of Torn (first page of AXM #18) made it clear that Nova embedded the psychic suggestion in Emma as she tricked her into Stuff during Morrison's run. If Nova actually had had Emma in her control before Genosha was destroyed you'd think she would have implanted some more effective post-hypnotic suggestions, rather than resorting to a last-ditch effort (as stated in Nova's handbook entry as well as in Torn itself) to manipulate her via survivor's guilt (which also ultimately failed).
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    xerox_kitty

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    #5  Edited By xerox_kitty
    @nikbackm: It doesn't matter if something only appears inside Astonishing X-Men.  Kitty Pryde's co-called 'death' only happened in the pages of Astonishing, but she's still gone.   
     
    And thanks for the big lecture/rant.  However, my point was that it's reasonable for people to get the wrong idea.  Foreverbbyily only asked a reasonable question, yet you seemed to imply that there was no suggestion of it anywhere.  So I'll stick up for Foreverbbyily & anyone else who were (reasonably) under the wrong impression.
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    nikbackm

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    #6  Edited By nikbackm
    @xerox-kitty said:

    " @nikbackm: It doesn't matter if something only appears inside Astonishing X-Men.  Kitty Pryde's co-called 'death' only happened in the pages of Astonishing, but she's still gone.

     
    Well, of course. The reason I pointed out that nothing in canon afterwards has referred to the diamond form as a Nova creation (either directly or indirectly) is that it supports the conclusion that the ending of Torn revealed the flashback meeting between Emma and Nova (in AXM #13) to be a part of Nova's manipulation of Emma.  
     
    It has been referred to as a secondary mutation several times though, and by different writers as well.
     

    @xerox-kitty

    said:

    " @nikbackm: And thanks for the big lecture/rant.  However, my point was that it's reasonable for people to get the wrong idea.  Foreverbbyily only asked a reasonable question, yet you seemed to imply that there was no suggestion of it anywhere.  So I'll stick up for Foreverbbyily & anyone else who were (reasonably) under the wrong impression. "

     
    It was meant more as a lecture than a rant. I'm well aware that many believe (incorrectly, IMO) that Nova created Emma's diamond form. It seems pretty clear to me (others might feel differently) that these two pages from AXM #18 reveals that the flashback scene in AXM #13 was a false memory.  
     
    Might as well include to evidence for that, now while the topic is under discussion.
      
    Beginning of AXM #18, took place when Emma tricked Nova into Stuff (New X-Men #126).
     
    End of AXM #18, where Cyclops, Beast and Wolverine explains how it all ties together.
     
    Pretty easy to miss or forget I guess, while the flashback on the other hand was much more in your face.
     
    Still, it was not my intention to berate Foreverbbyily for putting out the question if it came across that way. For all I know it could be something he/she heard second-hand.
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    uncanny89

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    #7  Edited By uncanny89

    Im with Nikbackm on this. 
     
    Why would Cassandra choose a former villain who not all the x-men trust, to be her sleeper agent?  why not Cyclops or Beast?
    Its says in Astonishing that Cassandra planted these memories in Emma's mind as a last ditched attempt to survive 
    so that scene can be reguarded as a false memory on Emmas part
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    Ryonslaught

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    #8  Edited By Ryonslaught
    @nikbackm: dude you got the same thing i did from the whole "Torn arc" and yup your right!
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    John Valentine

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    #9  Edited By John Valentine

    I agree with Xerox on this.

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    xerox_kitty

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    #10  Edited By xerox_kitty

    I love how people are ranting & trying to prove that I'm wrong... When all I was doing was trying to stick up for poor Foreverbbyily from a stuck-up, condescending, and unclear answer.   
        
    @uncanny89 said:

    "Why would Cassandra choose a former villain who not all the x-men trust, to be her sleeper agent?  why not Cyclops or Beast?"

    Because they'd have said 'no'.  It had been about a decade since Emma was a villain & she had returned to being a teacher yet again.  She wasn't a villain, but she was flawed (hence all that about the Survivor's Guilt).  It's also a plot point...  Something manufactured & manipulated to suit the needs of the story.  Therefore it was better to use Emma and create a sympathetic ending for her, instead of warping the others into the villain of the storyline.
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    uncanny89

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    #11  Edited By uncanny89
    @xerox-kitty:

    All me and Nikbackm   are saying is that Cassandra Nova didnt trigger or create Emma's Diamond form, it was a a false memory that Cassandra planted to get Emma to turn on the team in the even of her failiure in New x-Men  (or that was my understanding of the Torn arc)
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    Foreverbbyily

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    #12  Edited By Foreverbbyily
    @xerox-kitty said:
    "@nikbackm: It doesn't matter if something only appears inside Astonishing X-Men.  Kitty Pryde's co-called 'death' only happened in the pages of Astonishing, but she's still gone.    And thanks for the big lecture/rant.  However, my point was that it's reasonable for people to get the wrong idea.  Foreverbbyily only asked a reasonable question, yet you seemed to imply that there was no suggestion of it anywhere.  So I'll stick up for Foreverbbyily & anyone else who were (reasonably) under the wrong impression. "

    Thank you for understanding because i was clearly lost 
    about the whole thing.
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    markky_frass

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    #13  Edited By markky_frass

    glad its all cleared up now

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