He's not as paranoid & he trusts people to much, don't get me wrong he might surpass batman in a fight but he's not batman

@TheCuckoo: Could you elaborate further?

@VampireSelektor: physical combat without a utility belt possible WIN

as a detective who has a back up plan in almost any situation Epic Fail

Dick trust the ladies way to far thinks to much with his......

@TheCuckoo: Eh...you haven't convinced me. Could you list an example or two?

@VampireSelektor: court of owls dick falls for the whole circus act hook line and sinker with out once doubting a word.....until he finds evidence

Batman as you know would of been suspicious from the get go if good luck suddenly fell into his lap....looking for evidence of foul play

it just seems to me that dick is still more gullible then batman, even after everything they have been through

@TheCuckoo said:

@VampireSelektor: Dick trust the ladies way to far thinks to much with his......

Jezebel Jet

Because Bruce is Bruce, he will always be seen as the main man. while dick grayson will always be seen as a former bruce sidekick who will only become batman if bruce is not around.

You can never beat Batman at being Batman. NW will carve out his own niche, and excel.

If Bruce was ever permanently removed from the continuty (a real death) then Dick may be written as the one who surpassed Bruce. Wally West, anyone?

Nightwing fans should stop trying to make him not batman. And people who are batman fans should stop wasting energy with going on why Nightwing isn't batman. Greyson shouldn't become batman and his stories shouldn't be about him surpassing Bruce. They are two different characters. Greyson is his own character and has his own niche, it's not batman's. And writers should not waste time trying to make him batman and instead develop him as a unique character on his own. That way he can grow and the idea of who is better would be entirely irrelevant, to the benefit of everyone.

@TheCuckoo: You're pointing out all of the most obvious differences. It's like you're trying to analyze a piece of literature by retelling plot points.

The difference between Bruce and Dick, as I'm sure has been said before, is that Dick isn't Bruce. Bruce Wayne is obsessed with being Batman: he doesn't ever stop being Batman. Dick isn't obsessed. Neither is Tim. Neither is Terry McGinnis. Damian probably isn't either.

But Nightwing's not trying to be Batman, so it doesn't matter.

@gotwillpower:He's not as paranoid & he trusts people to much, don't get me wrong he might surpass batman in a fight but he's not batman.

you basically just said what i said congrats, except if took you longer

@TheCuckoo: I'll have to read the Nightwing issues up to "Night of Owls", and get back to you.

@TheCuckoo: Also, Bruce and Jezebel spent more time on "dating" than Dick and Raya. Jezebel Jet debuted in Batman #656 (2006) and showed her true colors in Batman #680 (2008). This gave Bruce a good amount of time - two years in our world, maybe a year in his - to study Jezebel and find a misstep. Dick met with Raya in Nightwing #1 and discovered her betrayal in Nightwing #7 - maybe a little over a month. Time could play a factor here.

What you're basically saying is he can't be Bruce, which is true, but doesn't really say anything, because Bruce can't be Dick so....

What I'm saying is Dick grayson is less a effective super hero then batman... end of... Grayons not even in Batmans league when it comes to plans back up plans so on...

Bat-man walks round with a chunk of kryptonite in his tool belt to use on superman if he ever goes bad.

Don't get me wrong Graysons a great street level hero, but he's not a leader he doesn't have Bat-mans tactical mind

That's where the new Robin comes in Damian Wayne he does seem to me to of been written with a mind like Bat-Man

Grayson & Damian together could pull off what Bat-Man does alone

That said Damian Waynes the one who could surpass Batman.

@Goldenboy_Prime said:

@TheCuckoo said:

@VampireSelektor: Dick trust the ladies way to far thinks to much with his......

Jezebel Jet

ditto

@TheCuckoo said:

What I'm saying is Dick grayson is less a effective super hero then batman... end of... Grayons not even in Batmans league when it comes to plans back up plans so on...

Bat-man walks round with a chunk of kryptonite in his tool belt to use on superman if he ever goes bad.

Don't get me wrong Graysons a great street level hero, but he's not a leader he doesn't have Bat-mans tactical mind

That's where the new Robin comes in Damian Wayne he does seem to me to of been written with a mind like Bat-Man

Grayson & Damian together could pull off what Bat-Man does alone

That said Damian Waynes the one who could surpass Batman.

Actually, Dick Grayson is renowned as one of the best field leaders of the DCU. If you can spare the time, go to your local Half-Price Books and cop a volume of New Teen Titans. He's actually had a better run as a leader than Batman. How well do you know the character?

You can never beat Batman at being Batman. NW will carve out his own niche, and excel.

@TheCuckoo: You're pointing out all of the most obvious differences. It's like you're trying to analyze a piece of literature by retelling plot points.

The difference between Bruce and Dick, as I'm sure has been said before, is that Dick isn't Bruce. Bruce Wayne is obsessed with being Batman: he doesn't ever stop being Batman. Dick isn't obsessed. Neither is Tim. Neither is Terry McGinnis. Damian probably isn't either.

But Nightwing's not trying to be Batman, so it doesn't matter.

  

cause DC wont let it.

@TheCuckoo said:

What I'm saying is Dick grayson is less a effective super hero then batman... end of... Grayons not even in Batmans league when it comes to plans back up plans so on...

Bat-man walks round with a chunk of kryptonite in his tool belt to use on superman if he ever goes bad.

Don't get me wrong Graysons a great street level hero, but he's not a leader he doesn't have Bat-mans tactical mind

That's where the new Robin comes in Damian Wayne he does seem to me to of been written with a mind like Bat-Man

Grayson & Damian together could pull off what Bat-Man does alone

That said Damian Waynes the one who could surpass Batman.

Ok, go pick up JLA Obsidian Age, any of The New Teen Titans omnibuses, and Dick's 2nd stint as Batman after Battle for the Cowl to see why you're wrong. Each of the Big 3 (Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman) has acknowledged Dick's skill at one point or another, and various other heroes have pointed out the trust they have in him as well as his leadership abilities. Saying Dick isn't a leader is laughable.

@TheCuckoo said:

What I'm saying is Dick grayson is less a effective super hero then batman... end of... Grayons not even in Batmans league when it comes to plans back up plans so on...

Bat-man walks round with a chunk of kryptonite in his tool belt to use on superman if he ever goes bad.

Don't get me wrong Graysons a great street level hero, but he's not a leader he doesn't have Bat-mans tactical mind

That's where the new Robin comes in Damian Wayne he does seem to me to of been written with a mind like Bat-Man

Grayson & Damian together could pull off what Bat-Man does alone

That said Damian Waynes the one who could surpass Batman.

Ok, go pick up JLA Obsidian Age, any of The New Teen Titans omnibuses, and Dick's 2nd stint as Batman after Battle for the Cowl to see why you're wrong. Each of the Big 3 (Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman) has acknowledged Dick's skill at one point or another, and various other heroes have pointed out the trust they have in him as well as his leadership abilities. Saying Dick isn't a leader is laughable.

@richardjohngrayson Thank you. I simply find it be insane someone to say Dick isn't a great leader, despite the massive body of evidence to the contrary. He's led however many incarnations of the Teen Titans, 1 Outsiders team, and 2 incarnations of the Justice League. Along with the numerous other team-ups (Some being similar to Infinite Crisis where he basically organized and led an army of heroes, all of whom trusted him completely) he's taken part in. I don't really feel like digging for scans, but what the hell, its not like i'm doing anything important today anyways:

Gallery

And of course this is just scans I can find with a quick search. Having done that i'm now off to make 2 lists: One for all of Grant Morrison's trade paperbacks from his Batman run and one for all of Dick's Nightwing Trades. Time I started building up my collection again and getting some reading done for Christmas.