Why nightwing can't surpass batman

Avatar image for thecuckoo
#1 Posted by TheCuckoo (67 posts) - - Show Bio

He's not as paranoid & he trusts people to much, don't get me wrong he might surpass batman in a fight but he's not batman

Avatar image for vampireselektor
#2 Posted by VampireSelektor (853 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheCuckoo: Could you elaborate further?

Avatar image for thecuckoo
#3 Posted by TheCuckoo (67 posts) - - Show Bio

@VampireSelektor: physical combat without a utility belt possible WIN

as a detective who has a back up plan in almost any situation Epic Fail

Dick trust the ladies way to far thinks to much with his......

Avatar image for vampireselektor
#4 Posted by VampireSelektor (853 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheCuckoo: Eh...you haven't convinced me. Could you list an example or two?

Avatar image for thecuckoo
#5 Edited by TheCuckoo (67 posts) - - Show Bio

@VampireSelektor: court of owls dick falls for the whole circus act hook line and sinker with out once doubting a word.....until he finds evidence

Batman as you know would of been suspicious from the get go if good luck suddenly fell into his lap....looking for evidence of foul play

it just seems to me that dick is still more gullible then batman, even after everything they have been through

Avatar image for goldenboy_prime
#6 Posted by Goldenboy_Prime (173 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheCuckoo said:

@VampireSelektor: Dick trust the ladies way to far thinks to much with his......

Jezebel Jet

Avatar image for chocobojam
#7 Posted by chocobojam (288 posts) - - Show Bio

Because Bruce is Bruce, he will always be seen as the main man. while dick grayson will always be seen as a former bruce sidekick who will only become batman if bruce is not around.

Avatar image for britsera
#8 Posted by britsera (205 posts) - - Show Bio

You can never beat Batman at being Batman. NW will carve out his own niche, and excel.

Avatar image for vernierhawk001
#9 Posted by vernierhawk001 (563 posts) - - Show Bio

If Bruce was ever permanently removed from the continuty (a real death) then Dick may be written as the one who surpassed Bruce. Wally West, anyone?

Avatar image for crom_cruach
#10 Posted by Crom-Cruach (8935 posts) - - Show Bio

Nightwing fans should stop trying to make him not batman. And people who are batman fans should stop wasting energy with going on why Nightwing isn't batman. Greyson shouldn't become batman and his stories shouldn't be about him surpassing Bruce. They are two different characters. Greyson is his own character and has his own niche, it's not batman's. And writers should not waste time trying to make him batman and instead develop him as a unique character on his own. That way he can grow and the idea of who is better would be entirely irrelevant, to the benefit of everyone.

Avatar image for gotwillpower
#11 Posted by gotwillpower (718 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheCuckoo: You're pointing out all of the most obvious differences. It's like you're trying to analyze a piece of literature by retelling plot points.

The difference between Bruce and Dick, as I'm sure has been said before, is that Dick isn't Bruce. Bruce Wayne is obsessed with being Batman: he doesn't ever stop being Batman. Dick isn't obsessed. Neither is Tim. Neither is Terry McGinnis. Damian probably isn't either.

But Nightwing's not trying to be Batman, so it doesn't matter.

Avatar image for thecuckoo
#12 Posted by TheCuckoo (67 posts) - - Show Bio

@gotwillpower:He's not as paranoid & he trusts people to much, don't get me wrong he might surpass batman in a fight but he's not batman.

you basically just said what i said congrats, except if took you longer

Avatar image for vampireselektor
#13 Posted by VampireSelektor (853 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheCuckoo: I'll have to read the Nightwing issues up to "Night of Owls", and get back to you.

Avatar image for vampireselektor
#14 Edited by VampireSelektor (853 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheCuckoo: Also, Bruce and Jezebel spent more time on "dating" than Dick and Raya. Jezebel Jet debuted in Batman #656 (2006) and showed her true colors in Batman #680 (2008). This gave Bruce a good amount of time - two years in our world, maybe a year in his - to study Jezebel and find a misstep. Dick met with Raya in Nightwing #1 and discovered her betrayal in Nightwing #7 - maybe a little over a month. Time could play a factor here.

Avatar image for nathaniel_christopher
#15 Posted by Nathaniel_Christopher (2966 posts) - - Show Bio

What you're basically saying is he can't be Bruce, which is true, but doesn't really say anything, because Bruce can't be Dick so....

Online
Avatar image for thecuckoo
#16 Posted by TheCuckoo (67 posts) - - Show Bio

What I'm saying is Dick grayson is less a effective super hero then batman... end of... Grayons not even in Batmans league when it comes to plans back up plans so on...

Bat-man walks round with a chunk of kryptonite in his tool belt to use on superman if he ever goes bad.

Don't get me wrong Graysons a great street level hero, but he's not a leader he doesn't have Bat-mans tactical mind

That's where the new Robin comes in Damian Wayne he does seem to me to of been written with a mind like Bat-Man

Grayson & Damian together could pull off what Bat-Man does alone

That said Damian Waynes the one who could surpass Batman.

Avatar image for squalleon
#17 Posted by Squalleon (9731 posts) - - Show Bio

@Goldenboy_Prime said:

@TheCuckoo said:

@VampireSelektor: Dick trust the ladies way to far thinks to much with his......

Jezebel Jet

ditto

Avatar image for vampireselektor
#18 Posted by VampireSelektor (853 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheCuckoo said:

What I'm saying is Dick grayson is less a effective super hero then batman... end of... Grayons not even in Batmans league when it comes to plans back up plans so on...

Bat-man walks round with a chunk of kryptonite in his tool belt to use on superman if he ever goes bad.

Don't get me wrong Graysons a great street level hero, but he's not a leader he doesn't have Bat-mans tactical mind

That's where the new Robin comes in Damian Wayne he does seem to me to of been written with a mind like Bat-Man

Grayson & Damian together could pull off what Bat-Man does alone

That said Damian Waynes the one who could surpass Batman.

Actually, Dick Grayson is renowned as one of the best field leaders of the DCU. If you can spare the time, go to your local Half-Price Books and cop a volume of New Teen Titans. He's actually had a better run as a leader than Batman. How well do you know the character?

Avatar image for utkanflash
#19 Posted by utkanflash (1205 posts) - - Show Bio
@britsera said:

You can never beat Batman at being Batman. NW will carve out his own niche, and excel.

Right and cuz he is goddamn BATMAN ;) 
 
 @gotwillpower said:

@TheCuckoo: You're pointing out all of the most obvious differences. It's like you're trying to analyze a piece of literature by retelling plot points.

The difference between Bruce and Dick, as I'm sure has been said before, is that Dick isn't Bruce. Bruce Wayne is obsessed with being Batman: he doesn't ever stop being Batman. Dick isn't obsessed. Neither is Tim. Neither is Terry McGinnis. Damian probably isn't either.

But Nightwing's not trying to be Batman, so it doesn't matter.

  
yess 
Avatar image for jobbernos
#20 Posted by jobbernos (1522 posts) - - Show Bio

cause DC wont let it.

Avatar image for nathaniel_christopher
#21 Posted by Nathaniel_Christopher (2966 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheCuckoo said:

What I'm saying is Dick grayson is less a effective super hero then batman... end of... Grayons not even in Batmans league when it comes to plans back up plans so on...

Bat-man walks round with a chunk of kryptonite in his tool belt to use on superman if he ever goes bad.

Don't get me wrong Graysons a great street level hero, but he's not a leader he doesn't have Bat-mans tactical mind

That's where the new Robin comes in Damian Wayne he does seem to me to of been written with a mind like Bat-Man

Grayson & Damian together could pull off what Bat-Man does alone

That said Damian Waynes the one who could surpass Batman.

Ok, go pick up JLA Obsidian Age, any of The New Teen Titans omnibuses, and Dick's 2nd stint as Batman after Battle for the Cowl to see why you're wrong. Each of the Big 3 (Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman) has acknowledged Dick's skill at one point or another, and various other heroes have pointed out the trust they have in him as well as his leadership abilities. Saying Dick isn't a leader is laughable.

Online
Avatar image for graysonofgotham
#22 Posted by graysonofgotham (523 posts) - - Show Bio
@Nathaniel_Christopher said:

@TheCuckoo said:

What I'm saying is Dick grayson is less a effective super hero then batman... end of... Grayons not even in Batmans league when it comes to plans back up plans so on...

Bat-man walks round with a chunk of kryptonite in his tool belt to use on superman if he ever goes bad.

Don't get me wrong Graysons a great street level hero, but he's not a leader he doesn't have Bat-mans tactical mind

That's where the new Robin comes in Damian Wayne he does seem to me to of been written with a mind like Bat-Man

Grayson & Damian together could pull off what Bat-Man does alone

That said Damian Waynes the one who could surpass Batman.

Ok, go pick up JLA Obsidian Age, any of The New Teen Titans omnibuses, and Dick's 2nd stint as Batman after Battle for the Cowl to see why you're wrong. Each of the Big 3 (Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman) has acknowledged Dick's skill at one point or another, and various other heroes have pointed out the trust they have in him as well as his leadership abilities. Saying Dick isn't a leader is laughable.

You kick ass NC.
Avatar image for nathaniel_christopher
#23 Posted by Nathaniel_Christopher (2966 posts) - - Show Bio

@richardjohngrayson Thank you. I simply find it be insane someone to say Dick isn't a great leader, despite the massive body of evidence to the contrary. He's led however many incarnations of the Teen Titans, 1 Outsiders team, and 2 incarnations of the Justice League. Along with the numerous other team-ups (Some being similar to Infinite Crisis where he basically organized and led an army of heroes, all of whom trusted him completely) he's taken part in. I don't really feel like digging for scans, but what the hell, its not like i'm doing anything important today anyways:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4Gallery image 5Gallery image 6Gallery image 7Gallery image 8

And of course this is just scans I can find with a quick search. Having done that i'm now off to make 2 lists: One for all of Grant Morrison's trade paperbacks from his Batman run and one for all of Dick's Nightwing Trades. Time I started building up my collection again and getting some reading done for Christmas.

Online
Avatar image for graysonofgotham
#24 Posted by graysonofgotham (523 posts) - - Show Bio
2740561-nightwing_359.jpg

This edit will also create new pages on Comic Vine for:

Beware, you are proposing to add brand new pages to the wiki along with your edits. Make sure this is what you intended. This will likely increase the time it takes for your changes to go live.

Comment and Save

Until you earn 1000 points all your submissions need to be vetted by other Comic Vine users. This process takes no more than a few hours and we'll send you an email once approved.