Personally, I'm of the mindset that DC should do something truly radical by permanently keeping Damian 6 feet under.

Personally, I'm of the mindset that DC should do something truly radical by permanently keeping Damian 6 feet under.

@darkwingdan: More like making Batman start putting people 6 feet under. Now that is a radical change that is required.

@RitchieB: Harper Row becoming Robin is just terrible. I'm seriously hoping that Damian comes back to life and returns as Robin. I wouldn't even mind if he teams up with Dick more than Bruce in fact I would probably even prefer it but he really should keep the mantel. Plus I think the name Flamebird is already taken.

@Mercy_: I'm with you on not wanting to see Damian gone, but it does cheapen this story (and Damian's character in general) if he doesn't stay dead - in my own personal opinion. For example, I think Jason Todd is a very interesting character. I like how he's been written since "Under the Hood." However, there's always a part of me back in my mind that's thinking "this character should still be in his coffin."

@Mercy_ said:

@darkwingdan

Personally, I'm of the mindset that DC should do something truly radical by permanently keeping Damian 6 feet under.

I half agree with this. One of my biggest complaints is how carefree comics are with deaths. Nobody actually stays that way. But the other half of me loves Damian far too much for him to be permanently gone.

Same here.

@noj said:

@RitchieB: Harper Row becoming Robin is just terrible. I'm seriously hoping that Damian comes back to life and returns as Robin. I wouldn't even mind if he teams up with Dick more than Bruce in fact I would probably even prefer it but he really should keep the mantel. Plus I think the name Flamebird is already taken.

Yes, by Bette Kane.

Bette Kane moved onto Hawkfire.

@noj:

I dont know if it would be terrible, ill just have to wait and see. personally the only Robin i like was Dick Grayson, the others are just ehh to me personally but I did like Dick and Damian's partnership when Dick was Batman. that being said DC is only about one thing $. Fact is Harper Row was a moderately popular character for female comic book readers according to DC at least. I am just looking at the facts and Batman #18 says Bruce is going a little insane and Harper is going to try to help him out of it. that sounds basically what Tim did when Jason died. I just do not see any role for Harper other then oracle. there has to be some reason they are introducing her again.

If it was up to me i'd personally kill off a lot of the Bat family it has just gotten to big. but two separate bat-families makes more sense to me. based on the New 52 relationships, I could see Batman, Red Robin, Alfred, Oracle (Harper) in Gotham. while Nightwing, Batgirl, and Damian are in Chicago. then let Batwoman and Red Hood kinda do their own separate thing,

Didnt Damian have another name before he became Robin like Redwing or Redbird or something?

@darkwingdan

I kinda agree with this as well I mean the Bat-family has gotten way to large. I mean

Batman, Nightwing, Red Hood, Red Robin, Damian Wayne, Cassie Cane, Alfred, Batgirl, Batwoman, Flamebird, Batwing, and now Harper Row. personally id kill off every single one of them but Bruce, Alfred, Dick and Babs. maybe id let Tim live

@darkwingdan said:

Personally, I'm of the mindset that DC should do something truly radical by permanently keeping Damian 6 feet under.

Ironically, being the grandchild of Ra's Al Ghul, I think keeping him dead would be a disservice.

I hope sales tank until they bring back Damian! If they bring Damian back.

@RitchieB: You got a valid point about Dick and Damian, but Bruce is his father. People tend to forget that Bruce knows how to manage his feelings, but he's not made out of stone. He will feel pain.

On the other hand, I couldn't possibly agree more with you. This is no bat-family! This is bat-family+distant relatives+random neighbours! Bruce, Alfred, Dick, Barb and Tim. Keep it simple.

@darkwingdan said:

Personally, I'm of the mindset that DC should do something truly radical by permanently keeping Damian 6 feet under.

Well then you will be happy with this news, Grant Morrison says: "Damian isn't the first Robin to fall in the line of duty, but he has the potential to be the first one who stays dead." And artist Chris Burnham says: "Damian is as dead as Thomas and Martha Wayne."

I for one am not happy with that possibility. I want him to return.

@JakeN7 said:

@darkwingdan said:

Personally, I'm of the mindset that DC should do something truly radical by permanently keeping Damian 6 feet under.

Well then you will be happy with this news, Grant Morrison says: "Damian isn't the first Robin to fall in the line of duty, but he has the potential to be the first one who stays dead." And artist Chris Burnham says: "Damian is as dead as Thomas and Martha Wayne."

I for one am not happy with that possibility. I want him to return.

I really don't like Burnham's response. =( Hoping that Damian will return soon.

@DurararaFTW: Oh, i'm reading the world's finest crossover but i didn't get there yet :)

@JakeN7 said:

@darkwingdan said:

Personally, I'm of the mindset that DC should do something truly radical by permanently keeping Damian 6 feet under.

Well then you will be happy with this news, Grant Morrison says: "Damian isn't the first Robin to fall in the line of duty, but he has the potential to be the first one whostays dead." And artist Chris Burnham says: "Damian is as dead as Thomas and Martha Wayne."

I for one am not happy with that possibility. I want him to return.

Please somebody tell me he's just saying that to make us believe he isn't returning, looking to cause a "shocking" return >:c

@WonderHunter said:

@DurararaFTW: Oh, i'm reading the world's finest crossover but i didn't get there yet :)

@JakeN7 said:

@darkwingdan said:

Personally, I'm of the mindset that DC should do something truly radical by permanently keeping Damian 6 feet under.

Well then you will be happy with this news, Grant Morrison says: "Damian isn't the first Robin to fall in the line of duty, but he has the potential to be the first one whostays dead." And artist Chris Burnham says: "Damian is as dead as Thomas and Martha Wayne."

I for one am not happy with that possibility. I want him to return.

Please somebody tell me he's just saying that to make us believe he isn't returning, looking to cause a "shocking" return >:c

I hope so. But Grant Morrison doesn't usually bulls####

@Samimista said:

@JakeN7 said:

@darkwingdan said:

Personally, I'm of the mindset that DC should do something truly radical by permanently keeping Damian 6 feet under.

Well then you will be happy with this news, Grant Morrison says: "Damian isn't the first Robin to fall in the line of duty, but he has the potential to be the first one who stays dead." And artist Chris Burnham says: "Damian is as dead as Thomas and Martha Wayne."

I for one am not happy with that possibility. I want him to return.

I really don't like Burnham's response. =( Hoping that Damian will return soon.

I don't like it either. Scares the hell out of me. I hope he'll return as well...

@WonderHunter:

just because Morrison wont bring him back doesn't mean another author down the line wont. besides isn't Morrison retiring? another writer could easily reverse it

@Phaedrusgr:

Bruce will fill the pain but if the Bat-Family taught us anything it is that a family is based on the bonds they share not the blood that runs in their veins. Anyway you look at it Dick has a much much stronger bond to Damian then Bruce did. I would even argue pre-52 Dick had a better relationship with the entire Bat family then Bruce did. But in the New 52 Dick and Damian were shown to be the closest with each other.

@RitchieB said:

@noj:

I dont know if it would be terrible, ill just have to wait and see. personally the only Robin i like was Dick Grayson, the others are just ehh to me personally but I did like Dick and Damian's partnership when Dick was Batman. that being said DC is only about one thing $. Fact is Harper Row was a moderately popular character for female comic book readers according to DC at least. I am just looking at the facts and Batman #18 says Bruce is going a little insane and Harper is going to try to help him out of it. that sounds basically what Tim did when Jason died. I just do not see any role for Harper other then oracle. there has to be some reason they are introducing her again.

If it was up to me i'd personally kill off a lot of the Bat family it has just gotten to big. but two separate bat-families makes more sense to me. based on the New 52 relationships, I could see Batman, Red Robin, Alfred, Oracle (Harper) in Gotham. while Nightwing, Batgirl, and Damian are in Chicago. then let Batwoman and Red Hood kinda do their own separate thing,

Didnt Damian have another name before he became Robin like Redwing or Redbird or something?

@darkwingdan

I kinda agree with this as well I mean the Bat-family has gotten way to large. I mean

Batman, Nightwing, Red Hood, Red Robin, Damian Wayne, Cassie Cane, Alfred, Batgirl, Batwoman, Flamebird, Batwing, and now Harper Row. personally id kill off every single one of them but Bruce, Alfred, Dick and Babs. maybe id let Tim live

Cassandra Cain, Batwoman, Hawkfire(formerly Flamebird) and Batwing aren't Bat-Family members. I'm not sure if Harper Row counts either.

Edited: Cassandra Cain was, but I don't think she's been in the New 52 yet, so she probably shouldn't be considered to be one of the family just now, like Stephanie Brown isn't either.

@V_Scarlotte_Rose:

they are not in the immediate family but they still fall under the Bat umbrella. Granted Batwoman is probably the most distant of all of them but Batwoman is still in Batman's realm so to speak. Batwing is not an immediate family member but he gets caught into tie ins as well like Night of the Owls. come to think of it Catwoman has been part of both big tie-ins as well. The Birds of Prey have also been tied in as well.

As far as Harper Row, we simply don't know everything yet but what we do know is Harper Row is set to be re-introduced into Batman 18 and is gonna have a larger role, what exactly that role is we dont know.

Cassie Cain is definitely gonna comeback at some point in time, she was a very popular and enjoyable character so it makes since to use her. I don't know about Stephanie Brown but if either one or both do come back they are gonna do it through Batman and be tied into his realm. Thus making the family even larger.

In my mind the Bat Family is already to large, like I said I would only have Bruce, Dick, Babs, Alfred, and Tim but other then that i'd kill them all off. but since DC would never do that I thinking splitting the Bat Family makes more sense.

Gotham would have: Bruce, Tim, Alfred, and Harper (maybe)

Chicago or even better Bludhaven would have: Dick, Babs, and Damian

Batwoman and Hawkfire stay very distant

Jason is away with the outlaws

and death to the rest

@V_Scarlotte_Rose said:

@RitchieB said:

@noj:

I dont know if it would be terrible, ill just have to wait and see. personally the only Robin i like was Dick Grayson, the others are just ehh to me personally but I did like Dick and Damian's partnership when Dick was Batman. that being said DC is only about one thing $. Fact is Harper Row was a moderately popular character for female comic book readers according to DC at least. I am just looking at the facts and Batman #18 says Bruce is going a little insane and Harper is going to try to help him out of it. that sounds basically what Tim did when Jason died. I just do not see any role for Harper other then oracle. there has to be some reason they are introducing her again.

If it was up to me i'd personally kill off a lot of the Bat family it has just gotten to big. but two separate bat-families makes more sense to me. based on the New 52 relationships, I could see Batman, Red Robin, Alfred, Oracle (Harper) in Gotham. while Nightwing, Batgirl, and Damian are in Chicago. then let Batwoman and Red Hood kinda do their own separate thing,

Didnt Damian have another name before he became Robin like Redwing or Redbird or something?

@darkwingdan

I kinda agree with this as well I mean the Bat-family has gotten way to large. I mean

Batman, Nightwing, Red Hood, Red Robin, Damian Wayne, Cassie Cane, Alfred, Batgirl, Batwoman, Flamebird, Batwing, and now Harper Row. personally id kill off every single one of them but Bruce, Alfred, Dick and Babs. maybe id let Tim live

Cassandra Cain, Batwoman, Hawkfire(formerly Flamebird) and Batwing aren't Bat-Family members. I'm not sure if Harper Row counts either.

Edited: Cassandra Cain was, but I don't think she's been in the New 52 yet, so she probably shouldn't be considered to be one of the family just now, like Stephanie Brown isn't either.

well Batman has confronted Kate in pre 52 and the new 52 and said that he is watching over her, so she isnt necessarily up close and personal with the Bat-Family, but she is definitely considered an ally, that does count for something

@RitchieB said:

@V_Scarlotte_Rose:

they are not in the immediate family but they still fall under the Bat umbrella. Granted Batwoman is probably the most distant of all of them but Batwoman is still in Batman's realm so to speak. Batwing is not an immediate family member but he gets caught into tie ins as well like Night of the Owls. come to think of it Catwoman has been part of both big tie-ins as well. The Birds of Prey have also been tied in as well.

As far as Harper Row, we simply don't know everything yet but what we do know is Harper Row is set to be re-introduced into Batman 18 and is gonna have a larger role, what exactly that role is we dont know.

Cassie Cain is definitely gonna comeback at some point in time, she was a very popular and enjoyable character so it makes since to use her. I don't know about Stephanie Brown but if either one or both do come back they are gonna do it through Batman and be tied into his realm. Thus making the family even larger.

In my mind the Bat Family is already to large, like I said I would only have Bruce, Dick, Babs, Alfred, and Tim but other then that i'd kill them all off. but since DC would never do that I thinking splitting the Bat Family makes more sense.

Gotham would have: Bruce, Tim, Alfred, and Harper (maybe)

Chicago or even better Bludhaven would have: Dick, Babs, and Damian

Batwoman and Hawkfire stay very distant

Jason is away with the outlaws

and death to the rest

She works in Gotham if that's what you mean. I want Batwoman kept away from the family as much as possible, as I like her being a bit more independent. J.H. Williams doesn't seem to want her being part of Batman tie-ins, so hopefully that means she'll be keeping her distance. I'm fine with her bumping into Batman now and again, but I don't want her joining the Bat-Family.

I think we should probably just consider the characters involved with Death Of The Family to be the Bat-Family. Batman, Alfred, Nightwing, Batgirl, Red Hood, Red Robin, Damian, and Maybe Catwoman.

It does seem like Harper Row could join the family at some point. It seems like they're setting her up for being important.

@V_Scarlotte_Rose:

id like to see Batwoman stay away to.

even Batman, Alfred, Nightwing, Batgirl, Red Hood, Red Robin, Damian, Catwoman, and (maybe at some point) harper, cassie, and steph is way to big

what you think about splitting the family?

@wessaari said:

@V_Scarlotte_Rose said:

@RitchieB said:

@noj:

I dont know if it would be terrible, ill just have to wait and see. personally the only Robin i like was Dick Grayson, the others are just ehh to me personally but I did like Dick and Damian's partnership when Dick was Batman. that being said DC is only about one thing $. Fact is Harper Row was a moderately popular character for female comic book readers according to DC at least. I am just looking at the facts and Batman #18 says Bruce is going a little insane and Harper is going to try to help him out of it. that sounds basically what Tim did when Jason died. I just do not see any role for Harper other then oracle. there has to be some reason they are introducing her again.

If it was up to me i'd personally kill off a lot of the Bat family it has just gotten to big. but two separate bat-families makes more sense to me. based on the New 52 relationships, I could see Batman, Red Robin, Alfred, Oracle (Harper) in Gotham. while Nightwing, Batgirl, and Damian are in Chicago. then let Batwoman and Red Hood kinda do their own separate thing,

Didnt Damian have another name before he became Robin like Redwing or Redbird or something?

@darkwingdan

I kinda agree with this as well I mean the Bat-family has gotten way to large. I mean

Batman, Nightwing, Red Hood, Red Robin, Damian Wayne, Cassie Cane, Alfred, Batgirl, Batwoman, Flamebird, Batwing, and now Harper Row. personally id kill off every single one of them but Bruce, Alfred, Dick and Babs. maybe id let Tim live

Cassandra Cain, Batwoman, Hawkfire(formerly Flamebird) and Batwing aren't Bat-Family members. I'm not sure if Harper Row counts either.

Edited: Cassandra Cain was, but I don't think she's been in the New 52 yet, so she probably shouldn't be considered to be one of the family just now, like Stephanie Brown isn't either.

well Batman has confronted Kate in pre 52 and the new 52 and said that he is watching over her, so she isnt necessarily up close and personal with the Bat-Family, but she is definitely considered an ally, that does count for something

I'm not sure if Batman trusts her at the moment though, so I don't know if they'd consider themselves allies. Batman's in an upcoming issue though, so we'll find out soon enough what their status is.

@RitchieB said:

@V_Scarlotte_Rose:

id like to see Batwoman stay away to.

even Batman, Alfred, Nightwing, Batgirl, Red Hood, Red Robin, Damian, Catwoman, and (maybe at some point) harper, cassie, and steph is way to big

what you think about splitting the family?

Splitting them up and moving to different locations could be a good idea.

@V_Scarlotte_Rose:

i'm not sure Batman absolutely trusts anyone except Alfred. He probably trusts Nightwing more than anyone but I am not sure if that's a 100% maybe 90%

he has shown a distrust of the JL before and he works with them and is a founding member

@RitchieB said:

@V_Scarlotte_Rose:

i'm not sure Batman absolutely trusts anyone except Alfred. He probably trusts Nightwing more than anyone but I am not sure if that's a 100% maybe 90%

he has shown a distrust of the JL before and he works with them and is a founding member

He's had so much more contact with the actual family members and the Justice League though, so the trust must be lower with Batwoman. He seems unsure of her because she turned down an offer to join Batman Incorporated, and joined the D.E.O. instead. She was sort of forced to join, but Batman seems suspicious of what she'll do whilst with them. As he said, "Working for the D.E.O. will inevitably put you at odds with me"., and the solicit for #20 says, "Batwoman is being played right into a confrontation with Batman". There'll almost certainly be some conflict between them, but it may be resolved at some point.

Hope they bring Damian back in a few months ,I can't wait for another 15 years. And when he comes I hope he keeps the robin mantle,he's the one who made Robin cool and badass. I really wish Morrison hadn't killed him,he had so much to grow,though what's done is done waiting for his return hope it's jaw-dropping unlike his death. And Bruce and Damian did grow closer but I think it was Bruce who was more attached to him than he was attached to Bruce. As for Dick he did say they were the best team ever.

Personally I think that DC has a chance to really develop Dick here, have him go through a prolonged rough patch, and then come through it better and stronger than ever. Damian's death should be a heavy blow to Dick, perhaps the heaviest he's ever suffered in his lifetime. For all intents and purposes, Damian is Dick's Jason, except unlike Bruce Dick was there when it happened, which could and should lead to massive amounts of guilt on Dick's part. Follow this up with the fact that Damian basically having been Dick's brother/son and perhaps the person Dick was closest to after Bruce it makes perfect sense for him to be distant towards people. If anything, this is a perfect opportunity for the falling out with Bruce that fans were clamoring for a little while ago when Death of the Family ended.

Personally though, I truly do hope Damian comes back at some point. Not because i'm a fan of deaths being cheapened by resurrection (Jason Todd has had some good stories in the years since and is now being written at his best, but part of me will always think he should've stayed buried) but because 1)the character still has a massive amount of potential, and 2)given his family tree it'd make perfect sense for once.

@Nathaniel_Christopher said:

Personally I think that DC has a chance to really develop Dick here, have him go through a prolonged rough patch, and then come through it better and stronger than ever. Damian's death should be a heavy blow to Dick, perhaps the heaviest he's ever suffered in his lifetime. For all intents and purposes, Damian is Dick's Jason, except unlike Bruce Dick was there when it happened, which could and should lead to massive amounts of guilt on Dick's part. Follow this up with the fact that Damian basically having been Dick's brother/son and perhaps the person Dick was closest to after Bruce it makes perfect sense for him to be distant towards people. If anything, this is a perfect opportunity for the falling out with Bruce that fans were clamoring for a little while ago when Death of the Family ended.

Personally though, I truly do hope Damian comes back at some point. Not because i'm a fan of deaths being cheapened by resurrection (Jason Todd has had some good stories in the years since and is now being written at his best, but part of me will always think he should've stayed buried) but because 1)the character still has a massive amount of potential, and 2)given his family tree it'd make perfect sense for once.

This basically sums up my views on the matter.

Also, with this whole new JLI thing going on it'd be interesting to see how it affects Dick's interaction with the rest of the team.

@JakeN7,@V_Scarlotte_Rose,@Samimista,@DurararaFTW,@RitchieB - I just want to let you all know that I don't want Damian to stay dead because I don't like the character. Quite the contrary actually. I love Damian. I went back and re-read Batman & Robin vol.1-4 and, despite how disturbing some of the stories were, I had a smile on my face the whole time because of the chemistry between Dick and Damian. Morrison himself even said on a recent podcast with Kevin Smith that he could've written those two as Batman & Robin for 10 years if DC would let him, which I would have gladly welcomed. I just don't want this death cheapened by a resurrection. I know that, given his family history, resurrection should be on everyone's mind. At the same time, I'd like to see this trend of meaningless comic book deaths come to an end. If Damian is resurrected in a year, then his death in this story is exactly that - meaningless.

@darkwingdan said:

@JakeN7,@V_Scarlotte_Rose,@Samimista,@DurararaFTW,@RitchieB - I just want to let you all know that I don't want Damian to stay dead because I don't like the character. Quite the contrary actually. I love Damian. I went back and re-read Batman & Robin vol.1-4 and, despite how disturbing some of the stories were, I had a smile on my face the whole time because of the chemistry between Dick and Damian. Morrison himself even said on a recent podcast with Kevin Smith that he could've written those two as Batman & Robin for 10 years if DC would let him, which I would have gladly welcomed. I just don't want this death cheapened by a resurrection. I know that, given his family history, resurrection should be on everyone's mind. At the same time, I'd like to see this trend of meaningless comic book deaths come to an end. If Damian is resurrected in a year, then his death in this story is exactly that - meaningless.

I'm fine with him not coming back. It would be interesting for a character to stay dead, as it seems to be a bit of a rarity.

I must point out that I'm not actually a fan of Damian, so maybe I'm biased.

I am so certain Dick will blame himself over Damian 's death.

Nightwing #18 Damian Variant (Unlettered)

Out March 20, 2013

• Dick Grayson lost so much during “DEATH OF THE FAMILY” that some new events are going to push him right over the edge!

• Nightwing has almost no hope left until the chance for vengeance presents itself. What decisions will he make?

I like how the first line pretty much answers the second.