Grayson and starfire

What about them?

...not sure what's this is about, maybe you want to know what we think of their relationship? If yes I can tell you that I was never a big fan of their relationship. Not sure why I just didn't but they had many cute moments and I did liked them more than Barbara and Dick at least.

Best relationship Dick ever had, and in the long run received much more development than Dick/Barbara ever did. Similar to Bruce/Diana however it could never last, because Kori doesn't mesh with Nightwing's world from a comic perspective.

I agree, I think that his relationship with Starfire was ultimately what gave him his independence from Bruce Wayne and made him his own character. However I disagree with the second part of what you said, the reason why Dick Grayson and Kori could never last is the same reason why Peter Parker or Bruce Wayne could never have a serious long term relationship and that is that editorial are very scared of the notion of having their big-name characters in a committed relationship because they want to keep the superhero-stud-bachelor-escapist fantasy alive. So whenever Peter or Dick get hitched, there is always some plot device that ends up breaking off the engagement. Also, I think another reason why Bruce/Diana could never last was because they weren't a good couple to begin with :) (not that you asked).

1) Not only Starfire, but being with the Titans in general, i'd count as one of the most important moments in Dick Grayson's history. Whereas with Batgirl, don't get me wrong she's cool and all, but their relationship wasn't nearly as builtup or expanded upon. The idea of it tends to be exaggerated by some fans, and personally I think that's based on leftover memories from Batman the Animated Series, which itself ended with Barbara hooking up with Bruce while Dick was away becoming Nightwing.

2) I think it's a little of both. Yes, very few characters end up getting married and having long lasting relationships (Honestly Clark and Lois are one of the few big name couples that did) and even when they do, that doesn't mean that at some point down the line a reboot or some other nonsense won't tear them apart, as again happened with Clark and Lois, even though they were together for years, as were Peter and MJ. However the worlds not meshing from a comic perspective is still valid. We saw it with Dinah and Ollie when they got married before the reboot. They didn't work together because Dinah's quite simply a bigger player than Ollie is, taking on more serious villains, due to her power level. The same applies to Diana and Bruce and Dick and Kori. Can't have Wonder Woman parading around in Gotham City, even putting aside her powers, her personality and story type doesn't mesh with Gotham's grimness. Now, it could be argued that Kori works better in Dick's world, since a part of him is still, and always will be that boy flying through the air on the trapeze, naturally attracted to the spotlight. But in the long run I don't think it'd last, because the main titles of all the bat family members always drift towards being more gritty than other series.

3) LOL I'd argue that Bruce doesn't make a good match for anyone to be honest (Though as with many things Batman, it also depends on how he's being written, and the latest tragedy that happened in his life to cause him to push everyone away from him) He's teased and placed with various women, because Batman's still one of the biggest heroes in the DCU, and seen as a guy with ideal traits for a man to have. Being desired by a number of women falls under that, so new and old love interests are popping up all the time.

This is a copy and paste from a post that I wrote for a thread 'What's your opinion on the Nightwing Starfire romance?' in the General Discussion. Essentially it delves further into what I was talking about in this particular thread regarding why I think the Dick Grayson and Starfire romance was so important to his character but it also explains why it was important to superhero comics because there were things that now seem common place but not so much in the early 1980's when Dick/Kori took off.

Guess I have to come here and set everyone straight.

In my opinion, the lasting impact of the Wolfman/Perez run of the Titans was the relationships that were created. One of the best relationships that started from the run was Dick and Kori. First off Dick and Kori were basically the first couple in mainstream comics that we saw in bed together naked, I know it sounds common place now but at the time it was a shocking development, so for anyone who sees their favorite couple in bed together, you have Dick/Kori to thank because they were the pioneers.

The whole idea behind Dick and Kori getting together was for Dick Grayson to become more open and Starfire's uninhibited vivacious personality contrasted well with Dick's cool demeanor, you could almost say Kori was the FOIL of Dick Grayson in many ways. Marv Wolfman stated in an interview that Batman always told Dick to think with his head instead of his heart, this and also his relationship with Bruce made him a rather cold character and made it almost impossible for him to have stable relationship and to be an effective team leader. He was on his way to becoming Bruce Wayne. Enter Starfire, who like Dick suffered tremendous personal loss but unlike Dick expressed her emotions freely, not just her emotion but her sexuality. Starfire was one of the first characters to want sex as much as the male character. Their relationship enabled Dick to open up to not only Kori but his teammates and it made him a much better leader. In fact it was their relationship that made Dick Grayson his own man and no longer just "Robin", he made the transition from "Robin" to "Nightwing" because of his experiences with Kori, he made the transition literally right in front of her and remember Dick Grayson was one of the first legacy characters to step out of the "sidekick" mantle. Basically Dick Grayson is the character he is today because of his relationship with Kori and legacy characters have been able to grow because of the relationship between Dick and Kori.

On the flip-side, the relationship between Dick and Kori made Kori a recognizable name in the DCU, but what was more important wasn't what it did to Starfire but what it did to female characters. As I've said before she was one the first female characters to embrace sexuality (though unlike Lodbell, Wolfman did it in an intelligent way) instead of repressing it and it was expressed in her relationship with Dick Grayson and it has shaped the writing of female characters (for the better) in comic books ever since.

IMO there are very few pairings in the DCU that are more developed than Dick and Kori that have changed the way characters are written like Dick and Kori that have changed the way couples are written like Dick and Kori. So if you think that Dick/Kori is a bad relationship, I respect your opinion but you're also dead wrong and there is nothing in RHATO that will ever come close to what was created by Marv Wolfman and George Perez.

td;dr - If you don't like Dick/Kori, you better well respect it

It's not as eloquent as I wanted it to be but I think it gets the point across. I mentioned RHATO because some idiot said that Kori/Roy was a better romance than Dick/Kori (this morning they edited their comment to praise Nightwing and Starfire trying to be sneaky) and someone else said it was pointless and they had no idea why it was so iconic , so if some parts of that comment seem angry, that's why lol.

But seriously, whether you like the pairing or not, you cannot understate it's importance.