There has been a growing sentiment amoungst the Nightwing fanbase that his Romani heritage hasn't really been explored a lot due to the whitewashing that DC has done. It also bugs me to see people fancast Dick Grayson as people like Matt Bomer or Ian Somerhalder because their completely forgetting his Romani heritage. Does anyone else feel this way? I mean DC is trying to bring diversity yet they have forgotten about the ethnicity of a character that could have brought some, I mean how many Romani heroes do you know?

I agree that there is growing sentiment among the fanbase (mostly from tumblr) who really, really, really hold dear Dick Grayson's Romani heritage and while I think that some of the aims of that section of the fanbase are noble, the rhetoric often is over the top and misguided.

First, there needs to be the understanding that throughout the entire history of the character of Dick Grayson, him being Romani was only for a short part of it. Devin Grayson wrote various titles involving the Batfamily and while writing Gotham Knights in the early 2000's, she retconned the origin of Dick Grayson to where his father John Grayson became Giovanni Grayson who was Romani, but his mother wasn't. So essentially, she retconned his origin to make him a quarter (keyword QUARTER) Romani and throughout her run, which was very brief, she made it a point to emphasize as much of his Romani heritage as possible, to the point of him saying Romani phrases. When she left, some writers went with Dick being HALF-Romani, some just ignored it. Now in the new 52, which began in 2011, in full circle, Dick Grayson being 1/4-Romani was retconned out of existence.

The reason why I gave the history lesson is because many of the fanbase that emphasizes his Romani roots don't seem to understand how brief he was Romani in canon and also to what extent he was Romani and what impact it had on his stories, because they seem to make it look as though he is FULL Romani and he's been like that decades and that if you take away the Romani from Grayson, you get a completely different character.

Personally, I could care less about his Romani roots, I thought the retcon was pointless and it didn't add anything worthwhile to Dick Grayson. That being said, I don't believe that either side of the debate is really wrong, because Dick Grayson was QUARTER-Romani for a little over a decade (he's been around for about 70), he could have a dark complexion, he could have a mixed complexion, he could have a light complexion. The only thinking that's wrong is the belief that he HAS to look dark or he HAS to look mixed or that he HAS to look light and that those who disagree are ignoring his roots and don't respect the character. This is mainly because 1) you can have his complexion mixed or white and still respect his Romani roots and 2) he's been non-Romani longer than many characters in the DCU have existed and he's not Romani now so if you don't care about his Romani-roots, no harm, no foul.

In terms of diversity, I don't think that retconning the origin of a character to make them half-of-something-other-than-what-they-were-previously really helps the diversity issue, it's more of a lazy approach than anything else.

tl;dr version: Everyone has their own interpretation of the character of Dick Grayson, just because you follow one brief aspect of his character really closely does not mean that you are more in touch with the character than someone else or that you're morally superior than the others.

@youknowwhattodo: I understand that everyone has their own view of a character, but you speak as though his Romani roots have nothing to do with his development of a character and that is flat out wrong. His Romani heritage was the main reason why he was part of the circus. He was part of a minority that has been unfairly loathed and mistreated around the world and you don't think that has an effect on his world view of protecting and saving people. How many Romani heroes do you know off the top of your head? Of all the minorities out there, there one of the ones who get the least representation and Dick Grayson was a huge part in reversing the stereotype that many people have of Romani people (mainly that they're not gypsies). It added another layer to the character, that separated him from the other members of the Batfamily.

I'm not saying I'm more of a fan but I just think that his Romani heritage made him a better character and it's frustrating to see that ignored by the fandom and DC.

There's a difference between how his Romani heritage was treated in the comics and how you want it to be treated. If he was always written as half-Romani, then I would agree with you, but he was only written as such for about 10 years, out of the 70 years that he has existed. When they explained how his Romani heritage played into his family being part of the circus, it was essentially the stereotype that many of the traveling circuses recruit "Gypsies" which is the slur for Romani. Reinforcing stereotypes won't help the perception of the Romani people. Then Devin Grayson wrote that his parents told him Romani sayings and that was pretty much it in terms of the effect it had on his life. It's like the effect being half-Irish has had on Bruce Wayne...not much. As the 60 other years of comic books involving Dick Grayson has shown, you could write him into the circus without retconning him to be half Romani. Again, some people seem to have this idea that being Romani was a huge part of him but it wasn't. If you want to write fanfiction where that is case, or RP as him where that is the case or just have a headcanon where that is the case, that is fine. However, don't preach that in actual canon it was this important attribute that defined Dick Grayson and we need to follow it, because it wasn't and we don't.

In terms of which other characters who have Romani heritage, there are more than you think, Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch have Romani descent, and they are fairly well-known characters in the comic book world. I'm not saying that the job is done, but I don't like the logic of having to retcon the origin of a character in order to give them a more ethnic background because I feel as though it is taking the easy way out.

Let's also remember that when DC retconned his origin again in the new 52, while they did remove the Romani thing that served no purpose, they did replace it with the "Grey Son" which added more mythology to the character of Dick Grayson than the efforts of Devin Grayson in Gotham Knights in my humble opinion.

Question. Where, in the reboot, does it say that Nightwing is now 100% white and that his Romani heritage was retconned? Because the only thing I remember happening in the new 52, directed at his origins, was that he was now 15 when his parents died because of Tony Zucco, 16 when he became robin around 6 months and 2 weeks after his parents died, the circus family was expanded on, adding new childhood friends or at least talking about some of the friends he had at the circus. And the main part that was added was the fact that he was supposed to be a Talon for a court of assassins, which his great grandfather was in. No where in that change, does it express the lost of Romani heritage.

Sure that one guy from the reboot who made Dick's heritage known (who turned out to not even be related to Dick to begin with if I remember correctly) isn't a character in the series. And, wow, William Cobb and his baby mama (since they never got married) Emilia Crowne had roots in Gotham in the 20th century. Neither of them could possibly be part of that culture, right? Its not like Gotham current history was that it was founded by immigrants from the East, and many people from all over the world probably came over to form all these cities.

My main complaint is that, because William Cobb was added, people think his heritage was retconned. It may just mean his heritage reaches farther back than we originally thought. Or heck, he gets it from his mom side of the family! Dick is still just as much Romani as he was in the past decade. That is, until Kyle Higgins, Tim Seeley, Tom King, and I guess Tom DeFalco, or like Geoff Johns, Dan Didio and Scott Snyder, say this heritage is retconned. Until then, I'm still going to believe he is a person of color.

Who cares?

Besides, don't you think having a traveling circus performer be Romani is a little...not quite racist, but typecast?

I consider myself a huge Dick Grayson fan and I didn't even know that he was half Romani...I never read Gotham Knights....so when they introduced the gypsy guy who moved into Dick's apartment building in the Pre52 Nightwing title I was confused...I had no idea who that guy was supposed to be and why he was calling Dick a gypsy and what not

@nightwingism: It's an easy question to answer, where does it say that he has any ancestral connection to the Romani in the new 52, because you can't prove a negative as the writers would never write a character and explicitly point out that he/she is 100% white, you would just pick up on that. What they will do is tell you if they are a person of color in their origins, or flashbacks of their childhood, just like what Devin Grayson did in Gotham Knights.

If you don't believe me, ask the section of the Dick Grayson fanbase that holds him being half-Romani to heart if he is still Romani in the new 52, the answers are going to be in the vicinity of a "no".

@youknowwhattodo: Most of the people who are reading the new 52 hate it, and most of the people I know just assume the worst in the new 52. But I know what you mean. I kind of covered that though, as most people don't think he's Romani anymore because of the introduction of William Cobb and deletion (I guess?) of the man from pre-reboot I wish I knew his name.

Wasn't Nightcrawler also raised by "Romani people" (is this the political correct Term?). And Gypsy is afaik also of Romani heritage.

Yeah there are a lot of characters that have or have had Romani heritage , it is not a barren wasteland regarding representation. I don't think the list is entirely accurate (just interesting) as Mary Grayson from what I understand was never Romani, just John or "Giovanni". I just pointed out Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch because they were two notable examples not named Dick Grayson.

[yay 1000th post]

Have to agree with @youknowwhattodo. I think all comics need more diversity, but Dick being Romani has never received major focus, and for the majority of his history he wasn't ever written as being that way anyways. This is different to someone like say Connor Hawke who was acknowledged as being of European, African, and Asian descent, and then slowly had that whitewashed away. Even take Roy Harper and his Navajo heritage, where Roy noted different beliefs he gained from that heritage in the past, and sought to pass them on to his own daughter (SMH Lian...still haven't gotten over her death) No real attention was ever made of Dick being Romani, and you couldn't really do anything more than speculate on what part it plays (or played assuming it's been retconned) in who he is as a person.

Personally, I don't think him being Romani matters anymore than I think the whole "Grey Son" thing matters (Though I actively disliked the latter) because he's existed for the majority of his "life" without being Romani, and most authors haven't ever done anything with it. It therefore doesn't add anything interesting to him as a character, or to the story's he appears in. It's not that dissimilar from them making Wally West African American, or Alan Scott Homosexual (Though both of those have been introduced as fairly major changes, and stirred up controversy) in that it's just done so they can say they have a diverse cast.

You say it like he doesn't look like the usual, good looking WASP American guy. So, I don't see your issue with his fan-casting.

Anyway, who cares. If someone wanted to explore it, I'd have no issue, but lack of attention towards it doesn't bother me.

I'm Romani and I gotta say, I don't really care.

I think the first time his romani heritage was mentioned, was actually in the Nightwing Annual #1 in 1997 (also written by Devin Grayson).

DC never gave it much significance for it to matter.

Dick Grayson's Romani heritage matters roughly zero percent in the grand scheme of things.

I'm still wondering why they haven't retconned it out, it adds absolutely nothing to his character.

Also "There has been a growing sentiment amoungst the Nightwing fanbase that his Romani heritage hasn't really been explored a lot due to the whitewashing that DC has done.", where exactly is this true? As far as I can tell, this sentence is yet another case of a poster taking something that bugs them only, and trying to attribute it to a large section of a fandom.

Well guys, it's official. Dick Grayson is STILL Romani, as of Secret Origins. Romani descent

@aahz: i can't believe he's only 21 and Bruce is only 32. i guess Jason is 20 and Tim is 17.

@hushofthewind: I have the impression that the Batfamliy members often seem to be older than they actually are. even in the old continuity.

Jason was for example only 18 in "Under the Red Hood" (and in the new 52 he is probably still under 20). And in "Batman: Year One" Bruce looks for me much closer to the 32 (he is supposed to be now) than to 25.

The age thing struck me as weird at first, but now I don't even remember it that often, as within the comics themselves the writers pretty much treat them all the same way they did Pre-Flashpoint anyways. So in this case age really is just a number lol

He's of Romani descent now. I remember people liking this and thought it rectonned the Court of Owls. LOL. No, it's still there. Romani thing could be on his mom side now or something If not his father's.

Anyway, is it suppose to be significant? It's just heritage stuff. I'm also Native American and Black......but that has little to do with my actual life now does it? Diversity is fine but people aren't define If they're diverse. I really don't see the reason of discussing it as If it's a character defining trait cause it's not...but rectonning it sounds kinda silly, too.

To me, it seems too many people now hate anything "white" because it's "bland" and "boring". It's really stupid. Just now on tumblr, people were judging the next president based on ethnicity over ability. People gotta get out of that mentality. Don't judge by the pigmentation of skin.

It goes for comics, too. Being a white character isn't bad. Being a black/asian character and turning into complete whitey character is. Also, being a white character and turned into another could constitute If it's drastic like Wally West. I feel you shouldn't have to go so drastic. Giving Wally color is fine but dang, that was a complete 360 degree turn. Besides, most "white" characters in comics generally have other roots that're ignored (Aka Damian).

@jayaaerow: It still looks as though his Romani heritage still came from his father, hence John 'Giovanni' Grayson.

Tumblr's a funny place, with Social Justice Warriors so concerned with being PC regarding race, gender and LGBT issues that for some, they end up coming full circle and becoming the very thing they've railed against, bigots.

New 52 Wally West...SMH terrible, just so terrible. I hate when writers pull stuff like that.

Agreed.

Why change a character who's always been white to black instead of making a new black character?

I have no clue. It is the best of both worlds when they do. I always use the great Neil Adams as an example. He wanted a black Green Lantern and instead of just turning Hal Jordan black he created an amazing character in John Stewart.

Exactly. I truly feel that taking a white character and making him black, or any variation of the same concept, is ridiculous, undermines the entire point, and really is just disrespectful to everyone involved. You want more diversity in the DCU? Fine, use your creativity to invent new characters to fill the universe out further. Taking a pre-existing character and changing him is just lazy to me.

Investing in new heroes takes more time and investment, which it's more complicated to just create a "copy" of another hero like John Stewart or Earth 2 Val-Zod for example. But I do appreciate Kevin Grevioux for his creation of Blue Marvel, which it's sales weren't that good, but it's appreciative to see other writers using him, because someone stood up and took the time to create him. I wouldn't mind seeing more new minority villains either.

A lot of this is DC's fault for the lack of investing in creation of minority characters back then. An editor wouldn't allow a black character to be created in LoS at the time, just white ones. Since the present has "less" racism and able to tolerate minority characters, then dealing with such consequences in race swapping wouldn't be all that surprising. I do feel it's a shame that previous existing characters are suffering with race bending in the New 52. All this new Wally West has is just the name. And his existence now as being a biracial was nothing but a poor lazy attempt, because all they care about is Barry Allen. DC is already releasing a book with 75 years of history with the Flash, which most of the stories in the book is only dedicated to Barry Allen as if Wally and Jay don't have years of history worthy of important stories in Flash history, which is....sad.

This is from Action Comics #627 (published in 1988) , so he was of english heritage before the Romani-Retcon.

The thing about his Rrom heritage is that he is at most 25%, especially in the new 52. Which means it isn't really prominent to him, or that it is even much of a factor to the character. And the fact that it is an underused retcon that only Devin Grayson really used and wasn't elaborate on doesn't help

Are you saying (or guessing) that he only has a quarter of Romani blood in him?

Yeah, basically. Him being Romani isn't really that big of a thing for him. Heck, he didn't even know about that part of him until his thought to be grandpa visited him, which wasn't actually his grandpa (?)

@nightwingism: Thanks for the clarity.

I think the problem goes when race isn't defined at the core creation of said character. This has been quite similar on what happened with Kyle Rayner by having a new writer to define his race.

No Dick mentioned his heritage before, afaik know the first time in Nightwing Annual #1 from 1997.

It was mentioned in that issue but Dick's Romani heritage wasn't recognized as canon until Gotham Knights.

Didn't Devin Grayson do that Annual too anyways?

Yes. And honestly I think all issues that mentioned his Romani heritage are written by Devin Grayson.

Does anybody know from which comic the "Giovanni" does come from?

It may not be a big deal for his character but it was something I liked. There aren't too many characters that are romani and I think it fits his character and background. I'm not saying it needs to be a big deal in his stories at all but just that it's there is nice.

Yes he is Romani and I quite like that but why are people upset that people are upset that they are casting white actors, Romanians are caucasian it doesn't matter the culture. If an american can play a brit an american can play a romanian. Anyone upset about it is being unreasonable and now after rebirth the old nightwing is back so although he is still romani he was raised american since he was nine.

Dick Grayson is white not Romani..His retcon to Romani was completely wrong.. I'm from northwest India and i would like to see him as white American not romani.i hate devin grayson's comics..he is white not Romani.only Devin Grayson comics regarded him as Romani..it's disgusting..from our childhood we see nightwing as white so he is going to continue in the same tract.. #nightwing is white not Romani

@empirical: @youknowwhattodo: Romani are different nomadic people of Northwest India.. Romanians were the people of Romania(country)near Balkan states

Frankly, I think that ethnicity is the least interesting part of a character. Dick Grayson is Dick Grayson because of his layers of personality, abilities and history, not because of the colour of his skin. Bearing this in mind, I heavily dislike the erosion of his non-caucasian roots by DC but I maintain that this is not a conversation that we or DC should ever need to have.