I've put the Bleeding Cool rumour part of this post in big clear cap locks so that it's clear for all to see that this is first and foremost A RUMOUR. Rich Johnston and Bleeding Cool are known for stirring fanboy fever up with fabricated stories and non existent news in the past. And I have a strong feeling that this could be another such piece of BS that Johnston is putting out to increase site viewings and garner the supporters of the old DCU.

Why have I mentioned the old DCU? Well these two articles from BC will show you why. In this first BC article, Johnston talks about a possible upcoming project involving a twenty two part storyline and a weekly series too. The project is also referred to as "a love letter to DC Comics fans." A target market that DC has been woefully unattentive to since The New 52 began.

And in this second follow up article, Johnston makes specific reference to the Pre New 52 universe as well as his 'source' informing him that this 'Band Aid' project from DC will have the Pre Flashpoint characters come face to face with their New 52 counterparts.

I've only posted this to encourage discussion on whether reverting back to the Pre Flashpoint universe is a good idea or whether DC should keep moving The New 52 forward. I greatly advise those optimisitc enough to see the return of the Pre Flashpoint universe to take this news with a MASSIVE pinch of salt. This is only a rumour and from Bleeding Cool at that.

So with the introductory warnings out the way, feel free to discuss this news civilly and reasonably. Hopefully not jumping to conclusions either. Is this honestly the return of the Pre Flashpoint Universe? Or is it a false lead by Bleeding Cool again?

Also apologies for the long OP, I felt I needed to lay some things out clearly for those who wouldn't take this news less dubiously. I personally don't trust the reliability of this gossip at all but it's at least something to talk about if not for its other topics that spin out of this rumour.

Sorry DC but a band-aid isn't going to save me from that deep gushing blood knife wound in my back. *I kid, I kid*.

Move on, have courage in your conviction instead of waffling. The N52 was going to take more than 3 years to get going, it needs more time.

@dernman: Hehehe you joke like that but that is how a lot of former DC fans feel about the New 52. As if it's a literal stab in the back against a universe and characters they were strongly attacked to suddenly cut off cruelly and painfully. It's driven some fans into the arms of Marvel, Image and Indie companies or just put off comics, in any case those guys are no longer DC fans. But I doubt DC cares enough about those fans to bring back the entire Pre Flashpoint universe for them.

@superguy1591 Is the waffling comment directed at me? If so, why do you think I'm waffling if you don't mind my asking? I purposely wrote a long OP to set the context on these rumours, to point out Bleeding Cool's reputation and to not foster false hope about the return of the Pre Flashpoint universe. That's why it's so long and there are justifiable reasons for writing a longer OP than usual in this scenario.

I have no words. Just trying to not get my hopes up. If they went back to Post-Crisis…I would 100% cry of joy. Please just let this be the longest Heroes Reborn story ever.

Looks like I may be taking a two month break from DC.

Mutiversal stories are incredibly annoying and convoluted if you ask me. Sounds dumb.

Verting back wouldn't solve a thing, the stories they are telling now in the New 52 are the same stories they would have told even if they hadn't rebooted. All it would be doing is swapping sh!t stories for sh!t stories in red underwear.

It makes all the difference. With the old universe back, that means characters have to be written differently again. The right way. No more edgy Superman, no more hateful Wally, no more horribly mischaracterized Tim Drake, Connor Kent, Bart Allen, and Cassie Sandsmark. We might have gotten the same, or similar, story arcs but they would have been overall different because most of the characters are still being written as newbies in the New 52 arcs.

No it doesn't, they would still tell the same stories just with different excuses for why they are acting the way they are.

I must disagree with you, mein freund, I think if DC went back to Post-Crisis or never rebooted, we'd have gotten different stories. They might not have necessarily been great stories, but at least we'd still have our history and our characters. I think DC -- The New 52! is trying too hard to be different overall from the Post-Crisis world.

Think calling it the Band Aid project is apt because it's like putting a band aid on a broken leg.

@lvenger: Hehehe you joke like that but that is how a lot of former DC fans feel about the New 52. As if it's a literal stab in the back against a universe and characters they were strongly attacked to suddenly cut off cruelly and painfully. It's driven some fans into the arms of Marvel, Image and Indie companies or just put off comics, in any case those guys are no longer DC fans. But I doubt DC cares enough about those fans to bring back the entire Pre Flashpoint universe for them.

As someone who was very pro reboot I have to say it's been a major disappointment. Sure some things have been improved but others have just been utterly destroyed. I was expecting a little cleaning out of the closet, a rewind to earlier years, being younger, tweek here/there, a revitalization of the universe but not the garbage we're mostly getting. It was quite embittering. I just got to the point I didn't want to be that so I'm trying to enjoy the little that is good.

I don't exactly want to go back to the old (there were problems I felt) but I don't want them to stay totally here either. I'll continue to hope some mixture will eventually happen.

This is most definitely not confirmed my friend and could be Bleeding Cool stirring the pot just to garner site views. It's not going to be yet anyway so you can still read from DC what you want. Though I'm not interested in any Future's End stuff myself.

And I must admit to being torn on the issue Jon and AK are discussing. On the one had, the Post Crisis characters had so much legacy and history defining them that reverting back to that would give readers a more coherent and clear backstory to look into. But on the other hand, I cannot deny Jon's observation that DC could just as easily pull off poor stories and mismanaged directions even if The New 52 was reverted. Although the Pre New 52 universe had many highs, it had its low points too. Changing back might not erase the inherent problem in DC at the moment, namely the editorial control and executive mandates. These problems were showing towards the end of the Pre Flashpoint universe too.

I think he was referring to DC Comics.

I don't think this is going to end up as a return to pre-Flashpoint as much as it is an olive-branch to DC readers that feel ostracized since the new 52 began. I do have two concerns though, one this is could very easily be a convoluted mess, two, I don't want this to turn into a hero v.s. hero crap that we see so often now that they lose their meaning. There is potential for good storytelling, for example imagine pre-Flashpoint Dick Grayson and new-52 Dick Grayson talking about Damian and Barbara.

They're not gonna revert,however wouldn't mind seeing pre-crisis characters utterly humiliate their supposedly edgy counterparts.

I was quite anti reboot before it started and now I'm...on the fence about the reboot. I always teeter back on forth about The New 52. For every great issue of Wonder Woman or Green Arrow, there's a rubbish change like making Wally West biracial, Superman acting like a jerk for no reason and edgy moments ripped out of the 90s.

And same here on both fronts. I try and enjoy the little things like Justice League United but I can see the appeal of mixing the best of The New 52 in with the rich history of the Pre New 52 universe. It would be really hard to pull off but done right, that would be an impressive move by DC.

Nor do I in the slightest. Bleeding Cool are known for creating their own news so this could be empty words. Which it probably is. But seeing the Pre Flashpoint characters interact with the New 52 characters might do more harm than good. The fact is that the previous incarnation is most probably gone and seeing what many fans consider the 'right' depiction of DC Comics in contrast with their New 52 versions could stir nostalgia against DC for reminding fans of what they've lost. It would be interesting though to see Pre and Post New 52 Superman interact or something like that.

@lvenger: I know, hence why I said "may". If this project happens, I'll probably take a break for that time. None of this sounds appealing, especially the Injustice/Infinite Crisis battle aspect. It's just going to interrupt the stories I want to read with what sounds like an idea DC farted out to fill time while they move.

That would make me revert to being a DC fan again immediately. They need to just admit the New 52 was a mistake and revert back to old universe. They can keep the New 52 as an alternate universe

@lvenger: Man I hope this is true

as someone who was completely and utterly anti-New52 I think it would be nice to merge the two universes and keep the good from both

1. Superman - his new attitude sucks...his costume sucks...to me he feels more like a lightened up Superboy Prime rather than Superman

2. the Teen Titans - everything about them needs fixed...we need the legacy back...Tim's team should have never been the first Teen Titans team...none of the current team are even remotely the same characters...erase everyone who has been connected to the Teen Titans and bring back their Pre52 histories

3. The timeline....this is where DC screwed up the most...the 5 year timeline was a horrible idea that ended up convoluting things worse than any issues that the pre52 universe had...things should have been more clear...now the 5 year timeline seems to be a safety net more than anything else...writers are using it to add elements to character histories but the editors aren't together on it so every time someone adds something to that 5 years it usually ends up screwing up other areas and other characters

That won't necessarily solve DC's problems. Remember how the Pre Flashpoint universe ended? Superman was walking across America, the JLA was made of B listers and second stringer no names, Wonder Woman's origin was horribly retconned along with other poorly handled decisions and stories. Things weren't going so well at the end of the Pre Flashpoint tenure so whilst I'd love to see that old universe again, its return won't make everything better. The underlying editorial control and executive half arsing will still exist at DC with or without The New 52 in place.

@danhimself Don't forget Azzarello's Wonder Woman origin, that's definitely been one of the best things about The New 52.

@lvenger: I haven't really read the New 52 Wonder Woman...I think I'll just read the whole thing once Azzarello is finished

Roy Harper was a mess too but I rather have those problems than almost anything going on with the New 52

What's a "rumour"? Silly Brits...

@danhimself: What new attitude does Superman have? Another person not reading Pak's Action but complaining about N52 Superman.

@lvenger: Not unless you're secretly Dido

Pre-52 Harley could come back? Do not raise my hopes.

RETCON CRISIS!

@retconcrisis:!

I read all of the New 52 Superman titles....you don't need to run around accusing people of not reading a book just because they don't like something that you do

Pak's Earth 2 Superman was excellently written...his New 52 Superman is just like everyone else's New 52 Superman

@danhimself: You are wrong.

You gotta understand though that those issues could have easily been fixed.

Superman was walking across America

New creative team that provides a kick ass story. Grounded would have just gone down as a horrible story and been forgotten. Plus you also had Action Comics and I personally was really loving the Doomsday arc it had going on.

the JLA was made of B listers and second stringer no names

While this is true, I very much enjoyed that team. It was all about the legacy factor. That current team had gone from Teen Titans to The Titans to, finally, The Justice League of America. It was a great tale of growth. How could this have been solved? Epic story arc where the current team could not deal with the current threat so the original 7, any maybe more, had to team up again to take them out. Then they would have remained as the JLA while the former team went back to being the Titans or the Outsiders. Or…to make it simpler…they could have just relaunched the series or something….lol

Wonder Woman's origin was horribly retconned along with other poorly handled decisions and stories

This one I won't give you any trouble on :P I will admit I was not reading WW at the time and to be honest I don't even remember what the retcons where. But I'm sure I could twist your arm some more when I'm told what her issue was mwahaha

Fact is, while the PC universe had its fault, I would argue that 97% of them were easily fixable but the problem was that DC decided to take the easy way out and reboot.

@superguy1591: Your comment was just phrased in a way that could have been aimed at me rather than Didio.

How can you tell someone their opinion is wrong? Pak's Superman, while better than others, is still the edgy Superman.

opinions can't be wrong....I don't like Pak's Superman...I don't like the New 52 Superman...imo he's not Superman...he's nothing more than a punk...you can disagree with that all you want...I'm not going to tell you that you're wrong for liking something that I don't and I'm not going to try and convince you otherwise

Could be cool, could be horrid, but not gonna happen.

My thread, my Briticism spelling applies here :P

@danhimself: 1 screenshot, 1 instance of Pak's "edgy" Superman. Just 1...

@arturocalakayvee: The hell does edgy even mean? What is edgy about Pak's Superman?

Seeing it kinda like New-52 variant of Infinite Crisis – DC characters from different eras meeting, clashing and fighting together to solve some Multiversal-level problem.

Reverting to Pre-New-52 – really, don’t raise your hopes too high, guys.

@arturocalakayvee:

New creative team that provides a kick ass story. Grounded would have just gone down as a horrible story and been forgotten. Plus you also had Action Comics and I personally was really loving the Doomsday arc it had going on.

You'd have needed several good Superman stories to wash out the rubbish that was Grounded. I reviewed every issue on here and the storyline just went down the drain. You, me and others have complained about how OOC Superman has acted in The New 52 but there is little else that is more OOC for Superman to do than to physically threaten his wife over publishing a story. That's what Grounded did to Superman and it happened in the glory days of the Pre New 52 Superman. And The Doomsday story was decent but nothing truly memorable in the grand scheme of Superman stories.

While this is true, I very much enjoyed that team. It was all about the legacy factor. That current team had gone from Teen Titans to The Titans to, finally, The Justice League of America. It was a great tale of growth. How could this have been solved? Epic story arc where the current team could not deal with the current threat so the original 7, any maybe more, had to team up again to take them out. Then they would have remained as the JLA while the former team went back to being the Titans or the Outsiders. Or…to make it simpler…they could have just relaunched the series or something….lol

I have very mixed feelings about Robinson's JLA run myself. On the one hand, some of his characters like Starman and Congorilla were great but on the other hand, his dialogue was very stilted and lacked creativity. Not to mention some of his stories like the Omega and Eclipso Rising arcs weren't that well put together stories when you look at them closely. Plus he started out in a wobbly direction with a larger composite League trimmed down to the Teen Titans all grown up version. I vastly prefered the Pre Final Crisis version when, alongside other notable heroes of the DCU, we had the elite, top tier heroes like Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Green Lantern and Flash on there to give the League a strong sense of legacy, dynamism and a creative mixture of interactions, personalities and power sets.

Fact is, while the PC universe had its fault, I would argue that 97% of them were easily fixable but the problem was that DC decided to take the easy way out and reboot.

Believe me, I'm almost in the same boat you are mate and I share many of your disappointments with The New 52 even if there are still some series I'm buying. But, to play devil's advocate here, a lot of writers (who know more about the industry's workings than we do) currently working at DC have commented in interviews and the like about how many new opportunities the New 52 has offered. If you have to stick with writing the same stories, it can get constrained and repetitive over time. But on a blank slate, you can write something new that hasn't been done before. I know you aren't going to like this argument and whilst I'm not bowled over by this case for The New 52's appeal, there is an inner logic to it that does point out the problems working within canon history and all that.

@sanohibiki: I know, I've warned against it explicitly in the OP. I'm betting Johnston just wants to raise Pre New 52 fanboys' hopes only to crush them with this stifling lack of confirmation on his rumour spinning.

@lvenger said:

I've always liked how the spelling of words like rumour/rumor, colour/color, favourite/favorite, etc. is related to the actual accents (British/American). One of the few things about the English language that makes sense.

Now Canadians, those are really silly...

@lvenger: So do you think that DC is realizing their mistakes

No, I don't want anything from Pre-Flashpoint, I actually really enjoy the New 52 and feel it would be of best interests to move forward completely.

@smashbrawler: I'm no expert on British grammar but I think it has something to do with their pronunciations of the words between how we Brits say it and how the Americans say it. Another example that fits what you're saying is maths and math. We say maths when we want to abbreviate mathematics down to a shorter word but you Americans (assuming you are American) say math for some reason. I've never understood why Americans omit the s in maths :P

Possibly though there aren't many reports to support that claim. Still, a recent shareholders meeting at Warner Bros had one shareholder express disappointment at how DC present women and Diane Nelson responding that representation of women at DC is now a top priority.

Agreed. I love the old universe but it would be stupid to go back to that, they should try to make the New 52 better instead.