@TheCrowbar said:
@fodigg: No, he didn't ask for the power, Tony Stark accidentally gave it to him.
If you're drugged without your consent you're not liable for what you do under that drug's influence.
True, and that's what I would argue happened if I were Scott's legal counsel, but it could be countered the pursuit of additional power after that initial indicated quite clearly that he wanted the power and took it willingly, if not forcefully, and his own testimony would support that. Even if you argued that his desire for more power was influenced by the initial taste, it's not like addicts and alcoholics are given a pass when they go out for more drug to feed their habit. They're still culpable.
@aaunderoath said:
@fodigg said:
@TheCrowbar said:
@fodigg: Scott isn't making a defense for himself. His goal was to save his people, he did that. He's happy to take those consequences, justified or not, because he got what he wanted.
Right, so it follows that he genuinely wanted the Phoenix, at least initially when all five got it, so he's responsible for any actions committed while empowered by the Phoenix Force whether it was influencing him or not.
Edit: If Scott got drunk off his ass and ran over Xavier in a car he'd be no less responsible for killing him, is my argument.
Exactly, except the same rules should apply to Scarlet Witch, Wolverine, Magik, Colossus, Namor, Magneto, Quicksilver, Spider-Woman, Pym, Venom, Kaine, etc. But they don't, every other person in the Marvel universe who is now a hero that has at one point or another been the cause for the lose of innocent lives, whether it be mind control, outside entity, or their own creation(ultron), they should be facing the same consequences as Cyclops. But they aren't Cyclops is the first person to take the rap for "not being of sound mind". Hell even Steve Rogers was "possessed" by Red Skull during Cap Reborn but a simple "whoa woops I wasn't in control" was good enough. Yet Cyclops isn't even posing a defense, HE accepts that stuff went down when he wasn't in control so he's doing his time, no complaints. He was right in that the Phoenix could jump start the mutant population and he was also right that the Avengers never helped them when they needed it.
Not all those things are synonymous. I'd hardly rate mind control and unforeseen consequences with insanity, let alone willing possession. However, I would agree that Scarlet Witch getting a pass was ridiculous.
@soduh2 said:
@fodigg said:
@TheCrowbar: @soduh2:
And if he hadn't taken on the Phoenix--the full Phoenix anyway--willingly, you may have a case there. In fact, if I were Scott's lawyer I'd angle that the Avengers were responsible for infecting the Phoenix Five to begin with and from then on they weren't in control. But, Scott's not making that defense. He was perfectly happy to have the Phoenix and he pushed to get all of it. He's responsible for what happened to Charles.
Not that Wolverine isn't now as big a hypocrit as Beast, but you know, the writers hate the characters.
Well, Cyclops claimed that something felt "off" when he only had 1/5th of the phoenix force. The Avengers actions (taking out Namor, Colossus, and Magik) gradually increased the amount of phoenix he had inside of him. While he took the rest of the Phoenix for himself AFTER he, unwillingly mind you, gained half of it.
Not a bad point except that by pointing out he felt that he was being influenced even as early as when he'd just received 1/5th power and didn't seek help proves he was aware of the danger and is culpable.
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Edit: To be clear to all three of you, I think the whole event was crap and that ever major character (e.g., Scott, Logan, Storm, Emma, Cap) was written horribly out of character. I'm just arguing that, as written, Scott is the clear bad guy who did bad stuff and is responsible for that. But I wouldn't defend the quality of that writing.
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