Scott didn't know that mutants were coming back. He wasn't right and he gets no credit for it. Why would you assume that having a host meant that every thing was OK? When an omega level telepath was its host, the Phoenix committed genocide. There being a host meant absolutely nothing.
When has the Phoenix ever harmed the earth?...it was coming straight for earth. And it had a host picked out. The Phoenix has been visiting the earth for ages. it has a known link with the mutant race on the planet. Why would it all of a sudden decide to destroy the earth? And if it wanted to destroy the earth...why would it need a host...certainly didnt need any destroying those planets on the way over..
as for dark phoenix......that was exactly that....DARK PHOENIX. Why would there be any concern of the Phoenix finding its host when never has hosting the Phoenix ever resulted in an automatic transformation to the dark phoenix. Thats why there being a host is relevant. Because there being one meant the earth wasnt in any harm. Your Dark Phoenix concern is completely irrelevant.
And jean grey only went dark phoenix due to mastermind messing with her head. She had successfully hosted the Phoenix without issue before then. Messing with the mind of a phoenix host is a definite no no. One would think Xavier would know this.
so exactly what the avengers were afraid of and exactly what they warned Scott would happen happened and they are wrong for trying to stop it? that's not really fair.
how were they right? THE AVENGERS CAUSED THE PHOENIX 5. Cyclops and the other 4 didnt ask for the power of the Phoenix. The avengers were afraid the Phoenix was going to destroy the earth...NEVER HAPPENED...even after it hosted the Phoenix 5...they didnt go out and destroy the planet....they actually tried to make it a better place....how in the world does that make the Avengers right?
my problem wasn't why they made it nice. my problem is that they didn't think about all the mutants missing out on the niceness. they kind of just forgot about it. Cyke went and waved the Phoenix in Hopes face, mocking her about being too young. if she is so obviously the key, why didn't he hand that power over and do what was best for the mutants? He was only thinking about the mutantless world in front of him. And he was thinking about it in indefinite terms, like he had no plans to ever give Hope the power to do what only she could do.
corruption by the Phoenix force???? . Cyclops possessed a power he coudnt release. He was under the influence. The phoenix has a mind of its own. It isnt just power, its a being. Hosting it will allow its being to impose some level of influence from jump...then more depending on the emotional and mental stability of the hosts.
also, i think the lights appeared because the phoenix re-sparked evolution. hope just stabilized their powers.
except that the phoenix was nowhere near. Its presence was channeled via Hope tapping into the Phoenix force. Given that in Hope's power was the ability to resist the damage cause by wanda....she was born a mutant...that is pre-phoenix...meaning within her lies the ability to beat Wanda's "spell". Its more likely that tapping into the Phoenix power enhanced this ability (as the phoenix has been known to do; enhance the abilities of of its host as well as grant new abilities). Sorry. There is just no evidence of what your saying being likely. The evidence leans heavily on it being Hope and not the Phoenix who was responsible for the lights.
If all it took was tapping into the phoenix's powers, then why didn't the phoenix five just do that? and now you're blaming wanda for bringing mutants back? some part of me think you cyclops types just don't want them back ;)
because only hope could restore the mutant population, because it was within her.
She is the one able to resist wandas spell, and she was the one responsible for the lights.
im not blaming wanda for mutants coming back.....in fact i dont even credit her as necessary in the process...just that a slower introduction would have been better than the planet being introduced to a large mutant population overnight. Which would have happened if Hope were to have kept the Phoenix.
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i think this is my biggest problem with your argument and a lot of my past and up coming points rely on this opinion. the corruption of the phoenix doesn't immediately get you. with jean, she was a hero. she healed the makran crystal and saved everything that exists and that wasn't even her. that was the phoenix itself acting the way she would. she did so much as herself. and i really want you to understand this. it wasn't the Phoenix and therefore immune to corruption. It was essentially Jean and she did so much without being corrupted, so how come the phoenix five were corrupted from the get go? my guess is that they weren't.
probably because she was the proper host. The Phoenix picks a suitable host. These 5 werent chosen by the Phoenix. It wasnt meant for them, and was more than what they could handle. The Phoenix has its influence on you as soon as it hosts you. Just read any dialogue the hosts have right after taking the Phoenix on. They take on this god like way of speaking. Call it what you want. Point is, the Phoenix has a mind of its own, and when it hosts an individual, it has an influence on them. If you doubt what im saying, just read how all hosts act after taking the phoenix on, they are clearly not their regular selves.
Emma Frost is also an omega level telepath and hers was one of the darkest corruptions in my opinion. Being a telepath isn't what helped Jean, she was just a stronger, juster person than Scott. Also, Jean wasn't destined to be the Phoenix' host. She wasn't born into that destiny like Hope. The Phoenix just realized what she could do and wanted to feel that. The Phoenix lives through its hosts personalities not the other way around. The flaws were in the Phoenix Five's personalities to start with.
I agree with the idea that the characters personalities can make them more or less desirable as hosts. Emma is an example of someone who has the capacity of evil. She has done evil, even when good, she can be shady. Same could be said for Namor and Magik. Which explains why Emma, despite being a telepath was so easily corrupted, because she had the capacity for such things already, the corruption of the Phoenix did not have to dig deep to bring that out.
No, jean may not have been born with the destiny of being the Phoenix host. But it doesnt change the fact that she was a CHOSEN host. She didnt accidentally get the phoenix, and it wasnt forced on her the way it was on the Phoenix 5.
Jean didn't say 'your intentions were good but a bad thing happened to you". she condemned Scott himself. His choices and execution. Not the Phoenix. Scott. As the perfect host of the Phoenix, i think she knows a thing or two about where the blame goes.
except that cyclops showed regret immediately after killing Professor Xavier. And in the final issue after the fight was done, a panel shows cyclops with his face in his hands, and text saying that even without his visor he sees what he has done.(basically inferring the regret he felt at that time)
jean or the image of jean can say whatever she wants......but it doesnt take priority over what cyclops himself says or what is shown of him in reaction to xaviers death. Even Wolverine, who hates his guts, admits he knows cyclops never meant to kill xavier.
as scott's brother and one of the oldest x-men, i think he knows a thing or two about where the blame goes.
why would that make him any kind of authority in where the blame goes? He hasnt even had all that much experience with the Phoenix to be able to judge anyone for how they act under its influence. In a universe where its common for family to betray family, Havok being his brother doesnt give im any authority to judge, especially cause he has no clue what it feels like to either host the phoenix or even be romantically linked to someone who hosted it.
i totally respect you and that our opinions differ. thanks for letting me know what you thought.
its all good. Thanks for the discussion. I respect you and your opinions as well....we just dont see eye to eye on this one...lol
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