He's ruined! For me that is.

Avatar image for thecrowbar
#1 Posted by TheCrowbar (4397 posts) - - Show Bio

So I'm reading New Avengers, there's one panel when Cap gets up and protests an action they all want to take. I can't take him seriously, that whole moral cloth of the Marvel Universe thing is gone now. T'challa has a stronger moral cloth, to me, than Cap.

Avatar image for v_scarlotte_rose
#2 Posted by V_Scarlotte_Rose (6732 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheCrowbar:What was the action he protested against?

Avatar image for john_valentine
#3 Posted by John Valentine (16466 posts) - - Show Bio

I've never really been interested in Captain America and I've read a lot of stuff with him in. He just seems so vanilla to me. There have, however, been a few moments of his that I've appreciated and I can see why his sort of character is both important and liked by so may people.

Avatar image for sunman
#4 Posted by SUNMAN (7678 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheCrowbar: I think he's been poorly handled since the Heroic Age began. but maybe that is just me

Avatar image for blood1991
#5 Posted by Blood1991 (8115 posts) - - Show Bio

Love Captain America. Forgot to pick this up yesterday so if you could give a little more on what was going on I could either defend the action or the character.

Avatar image for thecrowbar
#6 Edited by TheCrowbar (4397 posts) - - Show Bio

@SUNMAN: I couldn't agree more.

@V_Scarlotte_Rose: @Blood1991:

It's proposed that they destroy other Earth's to save their Earth and Captain America won't have it, he wants to stand against this kind of injustice blah blah blah. But the fact of the matter is, his moral fiber has been lacking since AvX. I haven't felt or seen him really reflect on his massive f-up. For him to show up and speak as the moral compass of the group is sorta dumb now. I half expected Mr. Fantastic to smack him upside the head and go "Remember when you went to war with mutants?" I can't see this character going back into his previous role after AvX. He shouldn't be so unscathed by it.

Avatar image for matchstick
#7 Posted by Matchstick (568 posts) - - Show Bio

So this one issue ruined the character? Thats a bit melodramatic don't you think?

Avatar image for thecrowbar
#8 Posted by TheCrowbar (4397 posts) - - Show Bio

@Matchstick: It wasn't the one issue, the one issue highlighted a larger problem with the character. He's not the moral leader of the Marvel Universe anymore even though writers keep trying to shoe horn him back into it. They messed up his characterization way too much.

Avatar image for blood1991
#9 Posted by Blood1991 (8115 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheCrowbar: I agree with him on not blowing up other Earth's. Those are still people no matter what reality. As for AVX he was no more in the wrong than any other character in that mess.

Avatar image for danhimself
#10 Posted by danhimself (21430 posts) - - Show Bio

A writer comes along and writes him in character and that ruined him for you?

Avatar image for thecrowbar
#11 Edited by TheCrowbar (4397 posts) - - Show Bio

@Blood1991 said:

@TheCrowbar: I agree with him on not blowing up other Earth's. Those are still people no matter what reality. As for AVX he was no more in the wrong than any other character in that mess.

I think he's far more damaged by that event than anyone else.

@danhimself said:

A writer comes along and writes him in character and that ruined him for you?

The character crossed a line in AvX, trying to get him back to who he was puts him out of character. You don't just go back from that.

Avatar image for matchstick
#12 Posted by Matchstick (568 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheCrowbar said:

@Matchstick: It wasn't the one issue, the one issue highlighted a larger problem with the character. He's not the moral leader of the Marvel Universe anymore even though writers keep trying to shoe horn him back into it. They messed up his characterization way too much.

Still, that's a bit much. Writers will come and go, sometimes he'll be writen well, sometimes not. No need to declare a character with 70+ years of history ruined because you don't like the direction he's gone in the last few years. Just learn to avoid the writers that don't know how to write him well.

Avatar image for judasnixon
#13 Edited by judasnixon (10694 posts) - - Show Bio
@TheCrowbar: My advice to you is pay no mind to AVX. It was dumb. Don't let one bad run ruin a character for you forever. I believe Hickman has a good handle on Cap. 
2830565-avengers_vs_xmen.jpg
Avatar image for innervenom123
#14 Posted by InnerVenom123 (29887 posts) - - Show Bio

Someone's ignoring how Cap acted in AVX... and you consider this a bad thing???

Avatar image for thecrowbar
#15 Posted by TheCrowbar (4397 posts) - - Show Bio

@Matchstick: That event still happened, the damage was done and it was too large of an event to simply ignore so soon. The character he was in AvX isn't the character from the previous 70 years. @judasnixon: @InnerVenom123:

Maybe I just feel that AvX was too large of an event to simply ignore and move on from so soon. It seemed to me that it shook the foundations of that world but we don't really see any true consequences from it outside of everyone hating Cyclops. The action requires an equal reaction.

Avatar image for matchstick
#16 Posted by Matchstick (568 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheCrowbar: There's no such thing as a ruined character. You can't damage a character, you can only write a story where you misuse them. A properly written character can come back from anything. Best learn to ignore PIS, you're gonna see a ton of it if you read comics long enough.

Avatar image for warlock2792
#17 Posted by WARLOCK2792 (18068 posts) - - Show Bio

@judasnixon said:

@TheCrowbar: My advice to you is pay no mind to AVX. It was dumb. Don't let one bad run ruin a character for you for ever. I believe Hickman has a good handle on Cap.
2830565-avengers_vs_xmen.jpg

LMAO That's exactly what happened!!

Avatar image for smart_dork_dude
#18 Posted by Smart_Dork_Dude (3366 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheCrowbar: A little over board don't ya think?

Avatar image for thecrowbar
#19 Posted by TheCrowbar (4397 posts) - - Show Bio

@Smart_Dork_Dude: If I can't enjoy a character's presence is a book he is then ruined for me.

Avatar image for smart_dork_dude
#20 Posted by Smart_Dork_Dude (3366 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheCrowbar: Okay, but saying he's ruined is a bit much don't you think? I mean what DC is doing with Shazam is bugging me and they're doing a lot more to make me think he's ruined than just a few lines of diaglouge. Let them have Cap STEAL FROM AN ATM BECAUSE HIS FRIEND TOLD HIM TOO AND THEN TALK TO ME ABOUT A CHARACTER BEING RUINED!!!

Sorry for the outburst I just think you are being a little too touchy when there is no need to be. I'm still buying Justice League for the Shazam backups even though I think it's ruining the character but I hold onto the hope it's only temporary and he will go back to normal.

Avatar image for thecrowbar
#21 Posted by TheCrowbar (4397 posts) - - Show Bio

@Smart_Dork_Dude: See I could be okay with that if Marvel just came out and said, "We're retconning the universe like DC!, AvX is our infinite crisis," But they didn't, this character now is horrifically inconsistent, I don't want to put money down for a character I don't know

Avatar image for krauser99
#22 Posted by krauser99 (851 posts) - - Show Bio

If you don't like Cap.

There's the door. :)

Despite these so called bad showings. Bru did incredible with him. This same argument can be made for Superjerk......ooops Superman. hehehe

Avatar image for theblueangel93
#23 Posted by TheBlueAngel93 (21064 posts) - - Show Bio
2847508-capstarspangledman___copy.jpg
Avatar image for shark_repellent_bat_spray
#24 Posted by Shark_Repellent_Bat_Spray (764 posts) - - Show Bio

Can't we just pretend that AvX never happened?

Avatar image for teerack
#25 Posted by Teerack (10228 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheCrowbar: If you really think Black Panther has higher morals then Cap you either haven't read much of Cap or much of Black Panther.

This edit will also create new pages on Comic Vine for:

Beware, you are proposing to add brand new pages to the wiki along with your edits. Make sure this is what you intended. This will likely increase the time it takes for your changes to go live.

Comment and Save

Until you earn 1000 points all your submissions need to be vetted by other Comic Vine users. This process takes no more than a few hours and we'll send you an email once approved.