* Best Snyder

*Worst Geoff Johns

Frank 'you suck at making batman' Miller

Lots of people hating on Geoff Johns Batman...and I can see why

Johns is one of the best writers in the whole industry, just not the best batman writer

Calling him the worst is a stretch though, just in my opinion

@comicdude23: Wow the thread is old but I will still state my opinion

Best: Morrison - Unlike anything we ever saw before and Frank Miller for his few good Batman books. They were only few but boy were they good.

Worst: You caught me here...I do not usually involve in reading awful comic books often and when I read something Batman related I prefer reading something great like Frank, Morrison or Brubaker

Potential: I gotta say Frank Miller. Only imagine DC actually hiring Frank to write a Batman run. And I mean hiring him in the late 80s when he was at his prime. Just look at what he did to Daredevil. If he was hired in the late 80s as a writer for Batman monthly comic book he could do so so so much!!!

Tynion writes a horendous dialog......

hell yes: judd winnick (yes. i have a soft spot for winnick, because jason todd and his amazing outsiders. just sign me in, this is some good shit), chuck dixon, tomasi, snyder (guys, seriously, black mirror? common, that was the top), 80s Miller

decent, sometimes meh: paul dini, loeb, tomi daniel, i shoud mention morrison. his grayson as bats was pretty neat and his run on bruces batman overall solid, but i hate his lyrical spiritual metaphorical above-us normal plebs- crap sometimes

hell no: devin grayson, jonhs, seeley (okay i am talking about his Grayson stuff i know it isnt batman). i see their name, im jumping out of a boat

i havent read new millers or kevin smiths stuff but it looks so awful i really have to read it some day
hilarious

Worst Batman writer will always be Geoff Johns.

Best: Always and forever Grant Morrison

Worst: When not paired with Tim Sale, Jeph Loeb.

Wow Im surprised no one has mentioned him yet, but I have you all topped Neal Adams was the worst Batman writer with Batman Odyssey.

New 52 writers worse

Potential: depends

Best: depends

Who was the guy who made him piss himself? Yeah that guy was the worse and the best at the same time. He was ballsy enough to make such an iconic character literally piss himself and took the heat for it.

Worst would be Geoff Johns and Tony Daniel. If we're including Batfamily stuff, then Scott Lobdell, James Tynion, and Ann Nocenti are obvious picks.

Top writers include early Jeph Loeb, Grant Morrison, pre-DKSA Frank Miller, Scott Snyder, and Paul Dini

Writers with potential include Tim Seeley, Tom King (seeing as they're currently writing the best Bat-book right now, hands down), and Genevieve Valentine

@gustavoburciaga1: That was Kevin Smith and I think Neal Adams was worse.

Morrison bes by about a million miles

synder worst

shame really black mirror was actually good

so much squandered potential on shite ideas

and out of character characters.

cannot stand his stupid stubborn mistake factory that is

batman

I'll be curious on why those are you choises because to most Best and Worst are interverted from your choises.

I will conceide that Morrison does complexe stories and that you need to know well batman to understand them fully. I recently finished reading his entire 7 year run and honestly it makes a fabulous super-arc. To reconcile with him you should read the new52 Batman Inc. which is a brilliant story, with a good plot, and intense emotions.

As for Loeb and Miller they are way to inconsistent in there work, they can't be considered as bests.

And for my answer I will reffer to @conradoaccorsi :

Best: Chuck Dixon/Alan Grant/Denny O'Neil/Paul Dini (they're the best deal with it)

Worst: Kevin Smith/Scott Snyder (since the start of New 52)

Best: Miller, Timm, O'Neil, Dixon, and as much as I think he is overrated, Morrison did a pretty decent job too.

Worst: Johns, Loeb, Smith, and Valentine isn't doing too good either.

Best: Scott Snyder, Grant Morrison, Bruce Timm, James Tynion IV.

Worst: Kevin Smith, Geoff Johns.

Johns and I'm having nightmares of him taking over the main Batman book. I have this feeling he'll be writing Batman with in the next 2 years.

The Catwoman writer? I'd say she has done a good job thus far.

Best: Morrison, Frank Miller (pre-2000s), Paul Dini and Timm

Meh: Lobe (I honestly enjoyed his series he did with Tim Sale), Snyder and Winick

Potential: Peter J. Tomasi

Worst: Johns (he is not a bad writer but for Bruce Wayne as a character he just doesn't get him)

Worst: Frank Miller,Paul Dini, Loeb(hated TDKR, It was complete edgy, cringy, garbage along with his very apparent misogyny which is just disgusting. Probably my most hated Batman book.)

Best: Scott Snyder. (Loved Zero Year and SO GLAD IT REPLACED Year One, thank god.)

@alex_1333: No one in their right mind could say TDKR is garbage and Scott Snyder is the best.

And about Year One it is awsomly drawn and colored, not lengthy, has very good texts and dialogues, a coherent storyline, and was revolutionnary for its time. You probably missed the point or maybe are not ment to read well writting works (Paul Dini's work included)

• Worst : Those guys responsible for the entire Detective Comics run of the new 52
• Best : Paul Dini/ Morrison/ Dixon (for the entire Knightfall arc)
• Most Potential: Snyder (lets see how he continues, so far he is among the best)

@jb681131: "No one in their right mind could say TDKR is garbage and Scott Snyder is the best", I just did. And Scott is definetly the best. So Again stop whining, leave me alone. I wasn't attacking you, I wasn't even talking to you. It's MY opinion. If you keep on trying to argue with me I will Flag you. Chill.

@alex_1333: I've got nothing against you. I just can't understand your opinion and how one can say so.

@jb681131: I do agree with Zero Year being an amazing read, which makes me conflicted since Year One is an amazing read as well. Stories by miller where more Dark, psychological and grounded. I like that, but can understand why some don't.

And Snyder is among the best, Court/City of Owls, Zero Year, Death of the Family and Endgame were among the best Batman stories I have read. Still not on the same level as what Morrison and Paul Dini have done for Batman so far, but if he continues with writing stories like these he will be among them.

Worst would be Kevin Smith, Johns or David Goyer if you count the DCEU. Maybe Frank Miller since his Batman comics post TDKR were AIDS

People always refference Morrison, Dini or Miller, when there has been other great (and maybe greater) long run writters such as Denis O'Neil and Chuck Dixon. But anyways, I would like to state my opinion and say that Snyder is far from being on of the Best Writter. His Owl are started very well, I think it's one of his great stories, but the ending was a bit fishy. After that, sorry, but it is the downfall for his writting. Improbable situations, stories that are draging on, poor detective skills, batarmor, and more batarmor, ...

For exemple you name Death of the Family, as it might be an interresting idea it has lots of flaws that make it a bad book. First, the main topic of the story as already been addressed a few times by writters as in the famous "A Death in the Family". Lots of moments and scenes seemed inspired by or copied from. Second, it is a false title, nobody dies. Even worse, nobody is even injured ! Third, the scenario seems a little improbable. All the Batmembers got caught !? All this giving out of character moments. Forth, a pointless crossover with dull tie-ins that had different versions of the Joker depending on the writter. Fith, the tension wasn't really there, no good cliffhangers on each chapters, and simplistic dialogues. How, but How, can this be among the best Batman stories, even if you ejoyed reading it ?

To continue, all of Snyder's New52 stories have too many flaws that even if he comes up with good and interresting ideas. He doesn't know how to make them live correctly and ruins them. He is not a bad writter, but a disapointing writter. An yes, None of his stories are among the best Batman stories, at least not in the top 10. I will conceed that Court of Owl was good.

@jb681131:

1) The title was a nod to a Death in the Family. The important part is not if a topic has been addressed before but how it is done in that story. You do understand we have more than 70 years of Batman, most topics have been addressed already. And I have read both stories, yes the inspiration is there but copied?

2) Death of the Family killed the family. Like the title says. Batgirl left, Jayson left, Tim Drake left and even Dick did lose all trust in Bruce. That is the Death that the title talks about, the way the family started to distrust Bruce at the end of it. I also have a feeling Snyder wanted to continue with this theme, until the Batman and Robin titles fixed the relationships. So no, the title is not false.

3) What is the problem with them being caught? You do understand the Joker is his biggest enemy right? He is a sadistic and meticulous person who thinks every step of his plans through till the smallest points. How often did Bruce warn his family members not to engage the Joker alone? And that is just what Batgirl did, who was caught thanks to a trap of the Joker and her brothers betrayal. Similar stuff happened with the others, I do not find it hard to believe the Joker could trap the family members the same way he did with Bruce at Arkham. You forget he had an entire year to think of the execution of his traps and knew their identities, even if he did not acknowledge it before. Again look at Batgirl. He did not target Batgirl, but Barbara Gordon, making sure she did not have another choice but to lose to him.

4) This pointless crossover explained how they got caught. And since every series was written by different authors, they of course would have different versions of the Joker. I frankly don't see a problem here, if there is, it is a problem with all crossovers.

5) I did not read the single issues, but bought the bundle. And as a complete read it was amazing. I read it in one go and have read it multiple times at that, something I do not do often.

Graveyard Shift and the Superheavy arcs were not that interesting, I admit that. But the rest of his stories were great. I do understand that we do not agree on that, but we also do not agree on The Dark Knight comics from the new 52. You say they are great, I read Clay and the one from Scarecrow and I did not like them at all. Tastes just differ.

@jb681131: Just like I can't understand how you like any of Miller's work. Again it's edgy, and I honestly don't find his work to be "intelligent" or have in general good writing/great plot. It's predictable and I don't find myself liking how he writes his characters, I don't like his Batman. Plus to add EVEN MORE annoying things he puts into his writing, it's his aggressive misogyny. It angers and disgusts me so much that I honestly end up hating his books. It's honestly not worth my time to read such a hateful, insecure person's thoughts (or writing...) put onto paper. Paul Dini and Jeph Loeb have this problem too. And yes Scott Snyder is my favorite Batman writer and he's phenomenal. At the end of the day you have your opinion, and I have mine.

@alex_1333: I do not see misogyny in either of their stories. His stories are just as harsh, if not harsher to men than to women. Do not see the misogyny in making catwoman a prostitute either. As for Sin City, Miller wrote a story about that kind of people. The main male character seekes out that kind of women. If you are a part of the more unsavory part of society most woman you will meet will fit into that category yes. Also, you wanna claim every story where the woman are prostitutes are misogynistic? Is that not looking down on prostitutes?

Frankly speaking nowadays I do find it annoying how autors have to do everything they can in their stories not to piss off those feminists and be politically correct. If you look hard enough you can find racism, misogyny of misandry in every story you read, even if your findings have no real basis. Do not wanna point my finger to SJW, but... I just did.

BTW, if you can say how annoying it is if a story does not depict women as completely flawless persons and is therefore misogynistic, I can say how annoying modern feminism and SJW are. Do not start a discussion about this, don't feel like going into a discussion on this topic again.

@lillion1: Trust me I don't want to have any discussions with you. I can tell what kinda person you are. "Misandry " there's no such thing, seriously you need to go educate yourself on feminism. The reason why you can't find any misogyny in any of his stories is because you share his same hateful, ignorant views. Do not want to point my finger at an obvious insecure,ignorant male.... Oh wait a minute I do. Because I'm not some pathetic passive aggressive person. Take a seat and go educate yourself.

@alex_1333: Stop it all man, you'r humilating yourself. He gave you the right arguments. You gave no arguments. Face it you'r wrong. If it was misogynic you wouldn't be the only one I've seen on ComicVine to point that out.

@alex_1333: Where is the misogyny in Lobe and Dini's writing? I'm genuinely curious.

Miller I can see with his ASBAR run and stuff after the 80s. But Miller has written some good female character, but after his 1st TDKR stuff he really declined alot.

@alex_1333: You said "Misandry " there's no such thing..

Ok, did not want a discussion but it is too much fun to prove you wrong. Lets count shall we? Read TDNR to check these facts I'm gonna list. Mind this: I like the story and this is just to prove Alex wrong on that sentence of hers.

.

Count how many woman are depicted as idiotic fools that can't do their job right. The men in that story are all depicted as morons who can not do their job right. Most mutants are men. The man who frees the Joker to seek some attention is male, and the only reason he frees him is because he failed at doing his job, a psychiatrist.

Meanwhile Yendel, the new comissioner is depicted as a reasonable person (she is female) who has her own opinions and knows what she is going for. Carrie saves Batman against the mutant leader and is a great help to him on multiple occasions. The woman saves the male, really misogynistic here. Ohh wait.

Most people killed are men.

Most criminals in the story are men, message to little kids: If you are male you have a big chance of becoming a criminal.

Batman who is a male is depicted as a moron who can only solve problems with his fists and can't find a reason to live without it. Considering the depictions of the mutants who accept him as their leader once he shows that he is strong, we can safely assume that Miller depicts men that only think with their fists and don't use their heads.

Superman is depicted as a fool, who does not want to think for himself and only answers to those above him in status, cq a loyal dogg.

The general is depicted as a corrupt male only seeking material wealth and betraying his country. A male btw.

Again the male rulers of countries are depicted as complete morons who can not do their jobs right, if they could diplomacy would work but we all know ww3 almost broke out. Nukes were being used. Probably this is because men only think with their fists, not their heads. Else diplomacy would have worked.

Off course since Selina Kyle is running an escort service in this story, so Miller is a real misogynistic bigot.

.

Just now I listed a couple of examples I could remember that could be seen as misandry. Again if you just look hard enough you can find whatever you want in a story. I can do the same for every story written by any author, including Snyder. Lets repeat a couple of things now.

I can perfectly see what kind of shortsighted person you are, only seeing stuff from one side and refusing to acknowledge there is another side to the story as well. Like most SJW I know off, you become completely defensive once your safe spaces are in danger. You start personal attacks and try to show that the other one is not educated and / or is a bigot.

I don't need to educate myself on modern feminism, I have educated myself on it already and I find it to be crap. Unlike what feminism did in the past nowadays the purpose of it is to whine on everything that threatens their safe spaces. If anything was done the way they want things to be done, artistic freedom would be dead already. Just think about the bull with that Joker / Batgirl cover.

I do not share his views. I find it funny you can say that when I gave no indication of any of that in my previous post. How can you say anything about me without knowing me? I was only saying how annoying it is how SJW try so hard to protect their safe spaces by limiting artistic freedom, because God forbid SJW find anything in a story that is not politically correct or conforms to their standards.

Ignorant view? I've probably read more books in this past years about psychology, philosophy and culture than you have done in your entire life. And these are not my schoolbooks mind you, I read them because I find them interesting. Again without knowing me you make a statement about how ignorant I am.

You say you are not a passive aggressive person, but your entire post was passive aggressive. The irony of it is really great.

Ohh and the insecure part cracked me up as well. Bravo you made a psycho analysis of me based on a couple sentences about artistic freedom, from probably halfway around the world.

.

As for the last sentence, before advising me to take a seat and educate myself it would be great if you did just that yourself. Maybe travel a bit? You know to some poorer regions in the world? Different cultures? Not saying you haven't done that already, you might have. Though reading your post I find it hard to believe. Next time just watch the cultures. See the different viewpoints on the world from these cultures. You might sound less uneducated the next time you write a post if you do that.

.

And me? Im gonna save my Guide in a word document now. Even if this postwas a response to your insults and ignorance, since a couple of arguments were given that do not conform to your viewpoints, you are probably going to report me or whatever for this post. Or who knows, you might do what every sensible person would do when they understand they were wrong (that is if you understand that). Apologize or ignore it.

Nice choices, what about Brian Azzarello ?

Jeph Loeb had a good run with The Long Halloween/Dark Victory. Some dislike the fact that each chapter is repetitive. And that you can guess who Holliday is before the end. Also there are better tellings of Two-face's origines. But the real thing that makes people hate him (me as well), is Hush. Lots of vilains are out of character (Joker, Killer Croc, Talia, ...). And you can know right-away who Hush is - making Batman a poor detective.

@conradoaccorsi Haven't read many Grant stories if I am correct. Which ones would you recommend? And what did Jeff Lemire write?

Agree with Jeph Loeb. He did write some great stories. His hate started when he went to marvel and fucked up some story there. Since I only read Batman related stories I never bothered about it though.

TLH and DV were both great stories, though during a second read they lost most of their appeal, like most mysteries do (Just try to read a sherlock holmes book twice, the second time you will be bored). Many people bash on Loeb for that as well.

And indeed Hush did have many problems. He introduced an awesome character in such a bad way many people hate Hush the character just for that even now.

@jb681131: Currently trying to find a couple of good bundles for Dennis O'Neil. Do you have reccomendations?

The sheer drop in quality between Long Halloween/Dark Victory and Hush for Loeb is honestly just as bad as the drop in quality for Miller between Year One and All-Star Batman and Robin.

And agreed on your previous post mentioning how people are always willing to mention Miller or Morrison, and even Snyder nowadays, but consistently forget about the numerous great writers that came before or in-between. People really should take the chance to pick up some of the new volumes they've been releasing that collect Batman material from the 70s and 80s.

Most potential - Alan Moore, shame he didn´t wrote more Batman related stories.

For me, Brian Azzarelo is the Potential one for make Noel and Europa. Everyone is good at least.

@codename_blackskull: How can you say that. Jeff Loeb's Haunted Knight was a similar story worsly written. Brian Azzarelo wrote Joker. One of the best Joker story.

@jb681131: I know right?

Joker by Azarello is a masterpiece.

Frank Miller isn't just a great comics writer, he's a great writer full stop. His work has a literary quality to it that includes a lot of clever symbolism and an examination of the human condition. He's a writer of substance.

Comparing him to Scott Snyder, which was sort of happening a couple of months ago, is a grossly unfair fight. It's like comparing Scorcese with Michael Bay. One is a master of his craft, the other is (arguably) an entertainer.

Snyder might be popular in some circles (the DC board for one), but he's not really what you would call a writer tapping into and exploring the human condition, like Miller can do with apparent ease.

• Worst - Kevin Smith
• Best - Matt Wagner

Frank Miller is easily the worst.

Not sure, but ATom King would be up there.

Came just to say this lol. I wouldn't actual call him the worst, he is okay, but definitely the worst in recent memory

@jayc1324:

I'll take King over Scott 'Duke' Snyder any day, although I skipped the I Am Gotham arc so I may have missed King's worst.

Guys like Miller, Smith, Adams, Johns etc never wrote Batman on an ongoing basis nor did they touch a flagship book.

So keeping that in mind I would nominate Tynion as the worst Bat writer in recent memory.

King had legit good themes, where he flunks is in delivery. Talk about pretentious and misguided. How an espionage extraction mission became a murder mystery and tragic love story I'll never know.

Kevin Smith has to be the worst for me. Making Batman piss himself during the Year One intimidation scene was the stupidest decision possible.