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    Batman

    Character » Batman appears in 23535 issues.

    Bruce Wayne, who witnessed the murder of his billionaire parents as a child, swore to avenge their deaths. He trained extensively to achieve mental and physical perfection, mastering martial arts, detective skills, and criminal psychology. Costumed as a bat to prey on the fears of criminals, and utilizing a high-tech arsenal, he became the legendary Batman.

    Harley+Ivy's relationship- sex sells OR female empowerment

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    WordsThatKill

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    #1  Edited By WordsThatKill

    Do you find the writers just hint at a sexual relationship between Harley and Ivy to latch on to the sex-sells phenomenon, or do you find it's working towards breaking the trend of female characters always having to have some sort of sexual or romantic relationship with a male character.

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    Tyger

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    I've always thought of Ivy as more 'asexual', only using sexuality as a means of manipulation, but not really going through with it. Harley, I see more about the 'romance' than the finish line, and more talk than action. (And as crazy as she is, she'd be downright scary when she does reach the finish line.)

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    ThePreface

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    Ivy & Harley are just lusty homegirls. Ivy cares too much about plants for a relationship. And Harley's got Mr. J on the brain.

    I wouldn't mind seeing an Ivy and Swamp Thing team-up.

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    Black_Arrow

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    They are Friends with benefits, jokes aside I don0t think that they have ever been in a sexual relation, I just thinking that's more of a joke.

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    jb681131

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    Do you find the writers just hint at a sexual relationship between Harley and Ivy to latch on to the sex-sells phenomenon, or do you find it's working towards breaking the trend of female characters always having to have some sort of sexual or romantic relationship with a male character.

    Comics attract more male readers. Girls on girls attracts males. Hence Harley and Ivy is as good an idea to make Harley Queen comics sell, because they are pretty bad !

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    entropy_aegis

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    The relationship exists because Harley is a sucky character who despite all the popularity in the world still needs to hold on to the jocks of other characters to remain relevant. Case in point, the upcoming Batman and Harley animated movie, not Batman and Robin not Batman and Superman, Batman and frikking Harley. Here I thought her name could sell by itself, guess not.

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    OrangeBat

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    #7  Edited By OrangeBat

    @wordsthatkill said:

    Do you find the writers just hint at a sexual relationship between Harley and Ivy to latch on to the sex-sells phenomenon, or do you find it's working towards breaking the trend of female characters always having to have some sort of sexual or romantic relationship with a male character.

    How about "Paul Dini's comic book wet dream"?

    Because really, that's all the Harley/Ivy stuff ever amounted to. Well, that, and giving Ivy more of a reason to bitch at Harley for sticking with the Joker despite all the abuse.

    It was one of the worst things that Dini and Timm did to Ivy, along with making her into a whiny feminist stereotype.

    @entropy_aegis said:

    The relationship exists because Harley is a sucky character who despite all the popularity in the world still needs to hold on to the jocks of other characters to remain relevant. Case in point, the upcoming Batman and Harley animated movie, not Batman and Robin not Batman and Superman, Batman and frikking Harley. Here I thought her name could sell by itself, guess not.

    I wonder when DC will realize that their attempts to make Harley Quinn into DC's Deadpool are doomed to failure.
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    entropy_aegis

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    @entropy_aegis said:

    The relationship exists because Harley is a sucky character who despite all the popularity in the world still needs to hold on to the jocks of other characters to remain relevant. Case in point, the upcoming Batman and Harley animated movie, not Batman and Robin not Batman and Superman, Batman and frikking Harley. Here I thought her name could sell by itself, guess not.

    I wonder when DC will realize that their attempts to make Harley Quinn into DC's Deadpool are doomed to failure.

    Yeah I've been noticing that a very specific version of Harley has achieved stardom, a version who is an oversexualized deadpool knockoff who is actually a superhero but just does bad things by accident or something(seriously that's what Amanda Conner thinks). I'm very curious to see how long this continues, will she actually evolve in to what Amanda is selling permanently or will she go back to the Dini/Timm character? overall I'm not convinced she can even remotely survive on her own, one way or another she needs the Gotham cast or the Suicide Squad. The animated movie announcement seals the lid on whether Harley is her own character or not. Just waiting for the Sirens/BOP movie announcement to bury this debate six feet under.

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    youknowwhattodo

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    #9  Edited By youknowwhattodo

    I don't think the sexual component of the Harley/Ivy relationship would be an example of female empowerment. I think that their relationship in general is an example of female empowerment because Ivy was one of the few characters in the DCU that preached to Harley the idea of independence and self-sufficiency. One could reasonably extrapolate that the teachings of Poison Ivy would help free Harley Quinn from the psychologically and physically abusive clutches of the Joker.

    While I don't mind the inclusion of a sexual element towards the bond that Harley and Ivy share, I wouldn't place female empowerment as its justification. It gives off the problematic implication that in order for a female character to obtain female empowerment, one must abstain from entering into a romantic partnership with a man. Based on what I've read of Harley in the new 52, she's broken free of the vice-grip the Joker previously held on her so a dalliance with Poison would be immaterial to the empowerment movement.

    I think that a significant motivator behind Harley and Ivy as a couple is fan-service, which if written well, isn't exactly a bad thing, as well as following the original wishes of Harley's creator (I believe Paul Dini was the one who hinted at it, I maybe wrong).

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    entropy_aegis

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    I don't think the sexual component of the Harley/Ivy relationship would be an example of female empowerment. I think that their relationship in general is an example of female empowerment because Ivy was one of the few characters in the DCU that preached to Harley the idea of independence and self-sufficiency. One could reasonably extrapolate that the teachings of Poison Ivy would help free Harley Quinn from the psychologically and physically abusive clutches of the Joker.

    While I don't mind the inclusion of a sexual element towards the bond that Harley and Ivy share, I wouldn't place female empowerment as its justification. It gives off the problematic implication that in order for a female character to obtain female empowerment, one must abstain from entering into a romantic partnership with a man. Based on what I've read of Harley in the new 52, she's broken free of the vice-grip the Joker previously held on her so a dalliance with Poison would be immaterial to the empowerment movement.

    I think that a significant motivator behind Harley and Ivy as a couple is fan-service, which if written well, isn't exactly a bad thing, as well as following the original wishes of Harley's creator (I believe Paul Dini was the one who hinted at it, I maybe wrong).

    Ding,ding,ding we have a winner.

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    lxlGiftedlxl

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    A little bit of both I guess.

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    Avenging-X-Bolt

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    Ivy and Harley have been a thing since the Harley was created and fist teamed up with Ivy according to Dini. It was ignored due to concerns of a homophobic backlash from potential viewers

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    entropy_aegis

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    Well the rumors/spoilers that I've been hearing about Sucide Squad could well be a blessing for Ivy if they turn out to be true.

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    Mark_Stephen

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    I don't mind it, I think it's a bit of both. Teasing for fun -Batgirl once asked about the relationship to which Harley responded "Like you and Supergirl?" and moving acceptance of such things along.

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    ULTRAstarkiller

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    entropy_aegis

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    @entropy_aegis: What rumors have you heard?

    That Joker/Harley is extremely romanticized, if this relationship catches on there will be less incentive to pander to the Harley/Ivy fanbase. I'm hoping it does, Joker will survive because there will always be influential creators willing to use him and they'll sweep aside Harley without a second thought, Ivy needs to escape this hell hole.

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    ULTRAstarkiller

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