@thejman251: No I did not read Nightwing 0. Could you explain what that pertains to in this discussion?
Also why did you even bother to show the scans with Jason once again when you know for a fact Bruce can defeat Jason as we have seen very recently.
And could you provide scans of those full fights with Shiva? In order for someone to be stomped, they have to have been utterly trashed. Those scans simply show Shiva winning. I do not dispute that Shiva won, but I do dispute that Bruce was stomped.
- I'm sorry what did we see very recently? Jason beating Bruce senseless and then leaving? Oh, and we also know that Jason can defeat Bruce. See Bruce above at gunpoint on the ground.
- Regardless, this post was from another thread. I suggest that you do not bring that conversation up.
- So you want me to attempt to satisfy your personal definition of "stomping"?
- The slang word is subjective, so i'm not going to attempt to convince you. I'll simply show you the pages.
Okay if you call what happened between Jason and Bruce, Jason beating Bruce Senseless....then you need to go back and look at the "fight" Bruce let Jason punch him, and Jason didnt even knock him off his feet. And yes Jason beat Bruce in that one fight. Bruce is vastly superior to Jason in terms of martial arts, equipment, resources, and so forth. Jason vs Bruce = Bruce 8/10. I will even grant you 7/10 just for the heck of it.
Suggest I not bring what up?
Also Bruce said "she may be" the greatest fighter in Batman #509. Not SHE IS. He is also able to hurt her during the training. I would also suggests you read the dialogue in Batman #427. Bruce calls her his equal, but suggests that he can defeat her because he is physically stronger. Also in Legends of the Dark Knight #62 Bruce is able to fool Shiva into believing that he used her signature move, when he actually used a modified form of that move. That suggest that Bruce is able to one up Shiva's own ability to spot strikes and moves.
And yeah that is not a "stomping". Bruce got hit with a poisoned shuriken. Then we she her kick him. And we see nothing else. We have no idea how the full fight went down. We saw the initial attack, one kick which presumably was the fight ender. We didn't see anything else. Again we are talking about who is better in hand to hand. Shiva won that because Bruce was clearly poisoned with a very potent substance. Pure hand to hand:
Now before you argue that Shiva's skills were reduced, I will point you to comments I have made before about Nightshade's powers which Grodd was able to make full use of, in fact maybe use to better extent than Nightshade herself did. Bruce's comments during the above fight with Shiva indicate that he does not know who is truly superior. Also the dialogue suggests that the mind control is not effecting her skills. This along with the comments from Batman #427, and comments made on other occasions suggest they are essentially equals. But I have consistently granted you that Shiva is superior. But I also would say that the evidence suggests otherwise.
- That's nice however, i don't care if Bruce "let" jason do anything. He was wobbling at the end of that fight regardless.
- The funny thing is that you claimed that Bruce "defeated" Jason.
- You mean that it's not a "stomping" in your opinion. It definitely suffices for me.
- You're basically bringing opinions to me and speculation which i care nothing about.
- You didn't ask for "hand to hand", you simply wanted to see Shiva defeating Bruce and i happily obliged.
- Do i look like i care about Nightshade? Is Nightshade Shiva? No. Was Nightshade Mongul or Grundy? No. Hence, i don't really care.
- You're attempting to tell me that because you think that Grodd uses Nightshade's abilities well, that he was using shiva's well.
- I'm sorry however, you don't dispatch a "near equal" as you believe they are, in a page whilst saying "its over" like Shiva's some child. This book is utter fatuous and inane drivel. Oh, then there's the fact that Bruce beats Grundy. Hilarious.
Also the dialogue suggests that the mind control is not effecting her skills.
- Really? You must not think that i have that issue at hand.
- And his comments are contradicted in Batman 509. He doesn't suggest that they are near equals in that issue and he hasn't been able to defeat Shiva in "hand to hand" at all. However, if such comments on said other occasions exist, feel free to post scans. The only instance outside of Loeb's drivel is in Batman 427 when he indeed suggests that shiva may be his equal in the martial arts.