Well I wasn't on board TKJ train from day one, I'm more surprised at people's astonishment than the actual movie. Timm's stubbornness to get this project made, the (unnecessary) R rating, the admission this thing doesn't have enough story to fill out even an hour just made me cold to this whole thing. This thing wasn't adaptation material and the same holds true for a good chunk of Moore's work, it's why he hates adaptations. He doesn't care about accuracy, he wrote the stories to highlight the strength of the comic medium not movies. Corporations will never care ofcourse but this was Timm's passion project and he just pulled a Zack Snyder by showing how he utterly missed the point. Between this and the upcoming Batman and Harley movie I'm getting the impression that he'll just make projects to pander to himself in the future, suddenly James Tucker doesn't look so bad now.

Batman and Babs I dont have strong feelings for, dont care about the sex or the relationship but it didn't belong here. But I do think it's bigger than Timm, Babs is a mess of a character frankly, her inability to move on and get a defined niche is what's hurting her. If she's gonna fluctuate between adult and tween then writers are just gonna go with whatever suits them.

LOL

I am one of the few who don't actually have a problem with this pairing. Yes, it is strange that Batman has had an intimate relationship with the daughter of one of his best friends and that she is actually like 10 years younger than him. However, I have always seen some kind of strange chemistry between them which one day had to grow into a relationship just like this.

This is just stupid, lol.

Yeah, they're two consenting adults. But a few things;

(1) It's his best friend's daughter

(2) It undermines TKJ's story

(3) Batman is supposed to be this paramount of will power, any time I see him give into spontaneous sex I call BS. Batman wouldn't debase himself like that, he wouldn't even care.

just saw it...was DISGRACEFUL

at the end BATMAN is laughing while BARBARA is paralyzed for life

and the Joker sounds tired and with no flair or explosive energy

and Batman is a dud

waste of my mother fucking time...now I know why I spend night and day making my own Batman movie

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRRAJtPoT4A

Bruce Timm on Origins of 'Risky' Batman-Batgirl Sex Scene in "The Killing Joke" | Comic Book Resources

Honestly, that explanation made things worse because even Bruce Timm seemed to have alluded to the fact that the dynamic between Bruce and Barbara, at least on his end is that of a father/daughter.

Bruce Timm would be better served justifying the Batman-Batgirl scene by admitting that he views Batman as a self-insert character and therefore wants as many female characters in the DCU to want to have sex with Batman and because of the rated-R cut, he could have his wish. Now, this might not be the real motivation behind including that scene, but I would believe that a lot more than what he's been telling us.

i'm finding the reactions interesting given that, at the time of the Animated Series, internet forums were just kicking off so you didn't get a sense that there was a huge backlash to what was done in the 90's. I mean, the relationship of Bruce and Barbara not only lasted through multiple seasons of the show (about the time things shifted to the Adventures of Batman and Robin) but was also an aspect of the Mystery of the Batwoman movie, and was discussed twice during Batman Beyond (regular show and Return of the Joker film). Yet I never remember such a negative reaction to the concept and considering the ratings of the shows didn't seem to play out in ratings or dollars.

but I think a lot of that comes down to the presentation. aside from a scene or two in the animated series, though i think it was Mystery of the Batwoman vice the tv episodes, the audience never actually saw Bruce and Barbara's relationship but it was a point of the character at that point.....and the scene I'm remembering was with clothing and some kissing at its most "graphic".

thus I think the reaction, even if then we had internet forums like we do now, would not be what it is now. Surprising in that regard that Bruce Timm would go in such a direction with a concept that he had already, in some ways, perfected through earlier works. Had the relationship been a call back to the 90's series but handled in the same manner in order to create greater emotional impact for Batman in the film than I think the fan reaction would have been far less because it would have been handled with maturity than fanboy shoved into the audiences face.

@ltbrd: Actually during Batman:TAS and the New Adventures of Batman and Robin, It was never shown that the two were on a relationship in fact Bruce had other relation ships during those times. It was always shown that Batgirl felt attracted to Batman but that's not weird it's like a schoolgirl that has a crush on her teacher, the teacher isn't interested in her so nothing happens. It seemed that she grew out of it when we saw her date Dick for sometime (in the animated movie: Batman and MrFreeze: Subzero). By the time of TNABR, she was single but Bruce seemed to be dating other people. Now by the time of Batman Beyond it was alluded that they were together and it was also alluded in The Mystery of Batwoman (that was released after Batman Beyond). But it never played a central part of the plot and really if they told that they weren't the stories wouldn't change a thing so because of this and because it was never shown such backlash would be overreacting. People didn't mind that because the shows were still good and they didn't force it upon you so it was cool. By the time of JL Batman and Wonder Woman seemed to had thing so people forgot of that. But in this movie, half of the thing revolves around the relation ship between Batman and Batgirl.And it's bad, I won't spoil it to you but I didn't like it not one bit.

I don't really care. I actually liked how Babs had a crush on Batman in Batman The Animated Series.

Ok, so I just watched the movie, and I arrived to this same conclusion.

To be put simply, the first 30 minutes of the movie revolve around this whole "prologue" that tried to explain why Barbara stopped being Batgirl. Sure, it has a lot of downsides: this part seems like kind of a bad "The Animated Series" episode, with a dull story, an uninteresting villain, and of course, the whole issue with the Batman/Batgirl relationship. But I repeat, it seems that the ultimate goal of these 30 minutes is just to try to explain why Batgirl and Batman stopped working together, putting aside the whole sex issue. I can understand they just did this to add enough screening time to be worthwhile as a movie, and while it's kind of a drag to watch this part, I can assure you that this doesn't ruin the "TKJ" part at all, which goes for the remaining 45 minutes of the movie.

Now, if you can get past those initial 30 minutes, and just focus on "TKJ", you'll enjoy the movie. All the elements of the graphic novel are faithfully portrayed in the film; the producers stayed truly loyal to the source material, and I got to praise them for that. And believe me, the whole "lust-filled film-ruining first part" will be easy to forget once you pass the 30-minute mark and the "TKJ" story starts. To me it was an unnecessary addition, sure, but it's not, by any means, a deal-breaker, since, in my opinion, none of the elements from the first part transition to the second part. So in the end, it all comes down to how seriously you take the Batgirl/Batman changes as offenses to the source material. For me, it was easy to overlook this, since TKJ part is enjoyable by itself.

Still haven't seen the movie, will watch it today. But there's nothing immoral with Batman having sex with Batgirl.

Age Gap - 10 to 15 years of difference is not a big deal, there are many real life couples with a bigger age gap and this is fiction. If we're going by that then characters like Wonder Woman, Wolverine, Captain America should mostly stay single all their life.

Student-Teacher relationship - This should hardly be considered as immoral at least in the comics. Bruce never trained her like he trained the Robins, there are so few comic books that show her training with Batman (at least I haven't read any), I always thought her as mostly self trained just like the other Batgirls. This isn't even a professional course like teacher-student, if I train some one in martial arts or say teach someone to swim, does that mean I shouldn't have sex with them?

Daughter of a friend - Yeah if this is bothering you then the fact that Bruce didn't tell Gordon and made Barbara quit the first time he saw Barbara as Batgirl should've bothered you too, or the fact that he took under even one let alone 10 sidekicks who are minor under his wings. Also I don't see anyone complaining against Sharon-Steve relationship, that's even more weird than this.

Why? Just why?

Which is what made it creepy and what made it even worse in the Animated Series, where Bruce was specifically shown to be on good terms with Jim Gordon in and out of costume (Whereas in other appearances he only interacts with him as Batman). Age actually has very little to do with it, it's about who both characters happen to be. A 40 year old woman hooking up with a 20 year old man is a little strange. A 40 year old woman hooking up with a 20 year old man she used to babysit and whose mother she's best friends with is creepy.

The Joker should have just showed Gordan Batman and his daughter porking instead of the photos lol.

I saw the movie and overall I thought they did a good job. They stuck to the source material. I really love Mark Hamill's Joker. I thought The first half hour with Batgirl and Batman and their interaction was good outside their little tryst. The sex was handled a little clumsily which I kind of expected, but overall it was a good movie that stuck to the source.

I actually don't mind Batman and Batgirl as a ship :) Although I really dig Batman and Zatanna.

I was going to write something similar, thanks for making it easier lol.

The movie was pretty good imo and Hamill did a brilliant job as Joker, specially the transition scene was awesome. I thought the Batman/Batgirl relationship could've been handled a lot better but they probably didn't want to make it long term (Long term would've been better than one night stand imo). Even then that scene didn't ruin the movie and the sad thing is that the sex scene was so overblown by fans, sites and Timm and co. that it overshadowed the awesome performance of Hamill.

PS I also dig Batman and Zatanna :)

Ugh this is going to ruin the prequel part of The Killing Joke for me. Apparently Timm claims it was a joint thing where he, Azzarello and the director what's his name were talking and someone came up with the idea. Plus the whole 'make it more controversial' statement which is just digging themselves into a hole. I wouldn't be surprised if Timm was the proponent though, he tried to pass it off in his DCAU projects under the rug and now he can play it out to his fanboy heart's content in this fan fic inspired episode. Not only does this make Batgirl sound like a starry eyed jilted lover, it really undermines Batman's friendship and mutual respect between Commissioner Gordon. Not only is he training and working with his daughter as a vigilante, now in this context he's given into a brief sexual dalliance with her too. I can understand that Batgirl is old enough in this version for it not to come off as statutory and the scene itself isn't provocative. It's the implications which are the biggest problem with this execution of Batman and Batgirl in a relationship. This pair just does not work and treads all over the much more fleshed out Dick & Barbara relationship.

Overreacting some say? No. Simply reacting. It is gratuitous and doesn't fit with the narrative. And yes it is creepy, very creepy.

I didn't care about the sex scene.The movie was good and the endinv was as it should have been as a cliffhanger.No reason to make the movie R rated to add one sex scene though.I never saw batman and Barbara as much like father daughter as he was with any other Robins or batgirls,they mostly looked like sidekicks while Barbara was more like partner since the beginning.She having feeling for batman isn't very surprising either.And batman having sex still doesn't make him a pedophile and her being his best friend's daughter shouldn't change much as it has happened in lots of movies.The only person who got wronged in it was batman as he would never do that but now since batman made mistake the "batgod makes no mistake and Bruce timm writes batgod" people can finally rest in peace.This was even explored in batman beyond where Barbara admitted,she and batman dated and broke up.Still I never shipped Barbara and now thanks to king catwoman is off the charts and god know if bat/zat would ever happen so batman would die lonely.

And yes people overreacted as usual with timm fanboy fantasy since timm's fanboy fantasy is what made dcau and batman great instead of what dcau became now,so yes some mistakes should be forgiven.