yeah, because posting this on caps forums wont make this buas at all
lolwhat?
Why is this on the Avengers forum anyway?
Because both are on the Avengers, duh!
Team » Avengers appears in 7693 issues.
yeah, because posting this on caps forums wont make this buas at all
lolwhat?
Why is this on the Avengers forum anyway?
Because both are on the Avengers, duh!
Cap wins, deal with it.
Even though Cap has never on panel beaten Wolverine in any of their main fights? Makes sense.
@god_spawn: are you not counting when Cap beat him in the enemy of the state story because Wolverine was mind controlled?
Cap wins, deal with it.
Even though Cap has never on panel beaten Wolverine in any of their main fights? Makes sense.
You are not correct, and where has Wolverine beat Cap one on one?
@god_spawn: are you not counting when Cap beat him in the enemy of the state story because Wolverine was mind controlled?
That wasn't even a fight. That was Logan going non stop in fighting for a long period of time, so he wasn't even 100%, and just prior he was outrunning the X-men, got bashed in the face by Kitty with a tree branch and blasted by Cyclops before teleporting away to where Cap was and got smashed in the back of the skull with his shield. That would be no better than if Cap was getting wailed on for days, then Logan snuck up behind him with a piece of folded metal.
@god_spawn: So it only counts if Wolverine wins? I like Wolverine but at least I am not bias about it.
@god_spawn: So it only counts if Wolverine wins?
If Cap had won that fight alone, it would have counted. As is, it was a team effort.
I agree, but where has Wolverine won in a one on one?
@god_spawn: So it only counts if Wolverine wins?
If Cap had won that fight alone, it would have counted. As is, it was a team effort.
I agree, but where has Wolverine won in a one on one?
I wouldn't know, I was only explaining why that one didn't count. god_spawn's one of the foremost Wolverine experts on the site, though, from what I've seen. He can back up his claims.
I am also pretty good with Wolverine and I almost have every issue of Captain America (my wife and I have well over 10,000 comics). I do not see a clear Wolverine takes it scenario. I see it much more gray. Dare I say any given Sunday.....
One said you can get around Caps shield...the same can be said about getting around the claws.
Also Wolverine does not have more experience than Cap.
@spider11211: I am correct. Steve has never fought and defeated an up to par Wolverine whereas Wolverine had chances to defeat Cap in fights and never did. He either stopped fighting, or pulled his punches. Aside from the one fight in a flashback story in Origins where Wolverine wasn't as skilled as he is now, Cap did the best. Aside from that when Wolverine was reduced to the mental state of a werewolf, Cap couldn't beat him. When Wolverine was on another non stop fighting tirade, just steamrolled past Nuke, and barely had a healing factor in their more up to date continuity wise in the same Origin series, Cap couldn't beat him even after disabling his claws. Wolverine kicked him in the leg, gave him a hematoma, and stopped fighting. If Wolverine wanted to knock out Cap, Cap had no way of defending himself. He was at his mercy. The only reason Steve was up later was because of said instance of Logan not wanting to fight. The only fight they had when both were up to par, Steve sucker punched Logan, got in extra hit before Logan resorted to using his martial arts to duck Steve, slash his stomach, cut the straps off the shield to disarm him of the shield, and kick him away. If he wanted right there, he could have cut deeper either along the arm or slash him deeper in the stomach to incapacitate him in a heavier manner. The only reason Steve was able to fight after that was because Logan once again pulled his attacks. Now Logan did charge again and Steve ducked and threw the shield which had Logan still standing. Giant Man then got involved, blind sided Wolverine, Sharon Carter then opened up the hatch, Steve got in another blow, and Hank kicked Logan out of a jet. He then fell into the arctic and got up just fine.
So you have Cap's only "win" against a Wolverine back in the day where he wasn't as skilled as he is now. Fast forward to a time where Steve is finally out of the ice, whereas Logan has far surpassed his old skill level due to his own training while Steve wasn't around, and Cap couldn't handle a mentally regressed Wolverine. He couldn't handle a Wolverine that had been fighting non stop for days, beat one of Cap's own rogues, didn't have a healing factor to even regenerate the tendons to pop his claws, and Logan incapacitated him with one single pressure point attack and stopped fighting, leaving Steve at his mercy. And their most recent fight where Logan had 2 opportunities to seriously harm Steve, but he pulled those attacks, and Steve won because of his team. Now that isn't really a win either since you had 2 other people jumping in to help.
So please, tell me where I am wrong? Tell why Steve wins? Tell me how Steve is still a better fighter, even though Logan spent years training while Rogers was the original bomb pop, and his actual track record against skilled and more dangerous opponents is actually beyond Caps? I'm smart enough to at least look past plot devices, because in their last 2 fights, Steve would have lost if not for Logan actually holding back.
@mitran: What I like is how in their fights, Logan has shown he can beat Cap without his claws via his pressure point attack that left Steve on the ground while Logan was gobbing and then walked off to rest. Or how he can get around the shield, disarm him of it, and simultaneously land two blows with one being potentially life threatening if he didn't just graze him. Logan's complicated in fights. It has been shown that if he doesn't use his skill, characters with only a moderate marginal difference in statistics can beat him. This is how Sabretooth was usually shown whooping him before Logan got extra training to beat him, and Wolverine has consistently shown Creed isn't much of a threat anymore. It has also been shown that a skilled fighter, even below his statistical level can best him in his days of not being as skilled. Shang-Chi showed this quite well, and in continuity wise, Logan came back and massacred him in 3 pages without using his claws when Shang was originally shown embarrassing him in flashback issues. Same with Cap back in WW2, yet more modern day Logan has shown to be able to deal with him even when handicapped.
@god_spawn: Is there an in-universe reason that Logan doesn't consistently use his skill, then? I know that he re-trained to take down Daken (?), but I don't know why he lost that skill in the first place. Or does he really just like tanking damage?
He gets lazy.
@god_spawn: Is there an in-universe reason that Logan doesn't consistently use his skill, then? I know that he re-trained to take down Daken (?), but I don't know why he lost that skill in the first place. Or does he really just like tanking damage?
He's lazy. He doesn't need to be busting out chops and kicks all day. Master Po said it best when he would rather run through a hailstorm of bullets even though he is perfectly capable of dodging them.
Wolverine wins this in a good fight!
Speed - Wolverine has the edge.
Strength - Wolverine has the edge as well.
Durability - Wolverine due to his insane healing factor.
Tactical intelligence – Honestly I think Cap’ has a slight majority, since he’s participated in a lot of wars.
Fighting abilities – I’m sure Cap’ takes this though they're around the same level, nothing more to be said here.
Overall Wolverine takes the majority in a good fight. I’d put his wins 7 to 10 against Cap'. If it’s to the very death, Wolverine wins every single time.
@god_spawn: Cap did not beat Wolverine when he was altered but he did not lose to him alone he had help in that issue and so the fight was ended early if you count that you have to count the one from the pic that I have shown. Experience does matter...wrong ask anyone that has been in a fight. It is funny that you only choose to see Wolverines good moments and neglect anything else. As I stated he has not one a one on one fight with Cap yet. I do not think the fight would be easy for either person but I think Cap will come out on top. Wolverine is not stronger than Cap, and Cap is a better fighter with more experience. People often go to Wolverines bones but test this, put an egg in a box with some padding and smack the box against a wall, then open the box and look at the egg...it is a mess. Wolverine has the speed advantage and the healing factor, and he will need them because it will be a tough fight with Cap winning at the end. Look at issues like Captain America 365 and 367, Cap takes a royal beating while he is a scrawny non-powered character, yet he still gets up. Then after a royal beating he gets his power back and still takes everyone out. Recently he took many beatings in his book yet he still never gives up not matter how bad he has been injured.
I say this and I am a very big Wolverine fan...you have to remove your fanboy hat to answer this one. To be fair I say Cap takes this fight 6 or 7 times out of 10.
Maybe we will just have to disagree on this one. I do not mean any disrespect if anyone disagrees.
Note: Wolverine was even beat by Squirrel girl.
Just check out AlphaPrime's post.
You might change your views.
Just check out AlphaPrime's post.
You might change your views.
Nope...sorry.
@spider11211: I never said Cap lost, but Cap has never straight up beaten him in a fair fight, which is my point. He was still unable to physically deal very well with Logan under the werewolf mentality he had. And I'm not discounting anything, but you seem to have a habit of just repeating yourself and saying nothing of any real importance to the debate. It's just a lot of out of context nothing and a lot of misinterpreting of my post. You even tried countering things I didn't even mention lol.
And I don't think posting a scan of Squirrel Girl helps your case. She has also beaten Thanos and Dr. Doom. She is a joke character and is treated as such.
@god_spawn: I agree he has never beaten him in a fair fight but the same thing can be said in reverse. I was countering you and others by showing the others side. Just because you do not feel that the Squirrel Girl scan should count does not mean that it should not. Joke or not it still happened and it should be treated as such. I do not see how issues showing how Cap can take a beating and yet continue is not of importance. Also it is a fact that Cap has more experience than Wolverine and to ignore that is a mistake. I am a big fan of Wolverine and I am just calling this one as I see it. I have been a reader for many years (longer than most here have been alive, and I have over 10,000 comics for reference). Please notice that you may be a little bias on this since you are a big X-men fan. Notice I did say that I feel it would be 6 or 7 times out of 10 for a tough Cap win and I feel that this is a fair assessment.
I think you have some very good points and I respect your views but I think it is best to agree to disagree.
Here are some stats to support my reason:
Cap is probably a bit faster super agile. But wolverine would take him. Ninja training and fighting in wars before cap.
@borisxthexblade: Wolverine does not have as much fighting experience you may want to review our Captain America history.
Wolverine takes Cap in a fight
I also had this discussion with my wife Saturday, please explain why Wolverine wins? I just don't see it. I see it being close and he would win some but not all.
I don't know why you have a hard time accepting Cap losing to Wolverine. Wolverine has more experience, training, and the stamina to take down Cap. It's not that big a deal really Caps my favorite and even I knowWolverine will kick his ass. Much like how Thor will lose to Phoenix host beings. It's all a matter of how far they'll keep fighting before their K.O that counts.
I don't know why you have a hard time accepting Cap losing to Wolverine. Wolverine has more experience, training, and the stamina to take down Cap. It's not that big a deal really Caps my favorite and even I knowWolverine will kick his ass. Much like how Thor will lose to Phoenix host beings. It's all a matter of how far they'll keep fighting before their K.O that counts.
@tigerkaya: First off Wolverine does not have more experience and training, I think you need to look into the history of the character more (that is a fact). The stats also show that he does not have more stamina so most of your reasons to support your theory are wrong from the start. The question maybe should be why are you having a hard time accepting Cap winning, and I am a big Wolverine fan.
After much discussion on this topic with several other big comic fans we can to this conclusion:
Cap would win if the fight was to a knockout but Wolverine would win if the fight was to the death.
@spider11211: But Wolverine has taken down Cap several times once by pressure points, than by his berserker rage overwhelming Cap, and finally in Worlds most wanted. The only time Cap has won was by groups in numbers. It's not that bad really The thing gets beaten byHulk on daily basis and he's still a favorite of mine don't know why your in denial about Cap losing to Wolverine.
@spider11211: But Wolverine has taken down Cap several times once by pressure points, than by his berserker rage overwhelming Cap, and finally in Worlds most wanted. The only time Cap has won was by groups in numbers. It's not that bad really The thing gets beaten byHulk on daily basis and he's still a favorite of mine don't know why your in denial about Cap losing to Wolverine.
As I said it is not about favorites, I am a huge Wolverine fan. I am calling this as I see it. Most of this depends on who is writing the character at the time. Many people point to an issue where Wolverine did not take him alone (Capwolf story).
Notice I gave Wolverine some wins and I feel that every match will be close.
Captain America Annual 8- Draw
X-men vs Avengers- no result
X-men vs Avengers 4 - No result
Infinity War 2 -No result
Captain America 404 -Wolverine (but he had help...but he did have the edge)
Wolverine 25 -None
Wolverine Origins -None (but Cap had the edge in this one)(second encounter edge to Wolverine)
Wolverine Origins #5 -Draw Wolverine injured cap but the fight was far from over before it was interrupted..this is not a win
Wolverine Origins #20- Captain America (Cap begins to pummel Logan with punches and kicks. The final blow occurred when Cap backhanded Logan across the face with his shield. With the Canadian half out of it, Cap picks him up with one arm by the throat and says to him that he trusted him.)
Avengers vs X-men #3 - Captain America (This was not a definitive "WIN" as Cap had his Avenger teammates help him remove Wolverine from the Quinjet. But that was Cap's plan from the beginning and as always, it worked perfectly.)
That is what happened. I can fairly say that my opinion stands.
I do not include stories that are not cannon. This shows that the statements such as "Wolverine has taken down Cap several times" is false.
Once again I am a Wolverine fan (I have his first appearance and most of his books). I call them as fairly as I can.
@mego_stretch_hulk: Canada icon? You gotta be kidding!
captain gets owned. theirs nothing he can do to wolerine neither can he help the avengers cos hes so pointless. so once wolverine has got his claws in cap cap is dead baby. wolverine will slice him to pieces theres nothing that cap can do. especially his bee bee gun or watever that tipe of gun is called. even if wolverine didn't have his healing powers. not a surprise cap never wins and is never useful
@atrocitustheferocious: Cap never wins....wow are you clueless.
It could go either way;
Wolverine loses to cap it he's unable to fight him (that's the case with most heroes) or
Wolverine wins because cap did something that really gets him mad. If wolverine is mad, then nothing separates him from you and your death. And he has his healing factor, so no matter what cap does eventually he must submit.
However, most likely cap would win because wolverine probably wouldn't want to face him.
cap need to bring a device that will make logan fall asleep.
then after he can slice his head off.
The device would be his fist or his shield. When it hits Wolverine in the face he will be knocked out.
There really isn't much of a debate here anymore. Captain America is a great fighter but he has been pushed to the limits by fighters less skilled than Wolverine. I remember clearly Kingpin standing up to him, but then again, fans tend to underestimate Kingpin's fighting ability. Crossbones also took it to him. Wolverine has engaged in blood fights with Sabretooth that would have killed Cap if he lost his shield at any point in those fights. My point is this though, like it or not Wolverine has his healing factor to fall back on, and this is before we can look at how he out classes Cap in skill.
In Wolverine Origins: Born in Blood, Cap got around the claws, but Wolverine proved to be more skillful than people realized, had that fight went further Cap would have died. In the end, like it or not, it's the healing factor that wins the day. Take that away, and Wolverine probably still wins because of his knowledge in fighting. Born in Blood proves this.
@spider11211: I like your take here, these are facts really. But that encounter in Born in Blood, Wolverine could have killed him after that leg strike. But the whole "beat Cap" several times. I don't remember ever seeing that. And I like Cap more than Wolverine, so no bias here.
@spider11211: I like your take here, these are facts really. But that encounter in Born in Blood, Wolverine could have killed him after that leg strike. But the whole "beat Cap" several times. I don't remember ever seeing that. And I like Cap more than Wolverine, so no bias here.
Thank you for your fair opinion. As I stated I do not think it will ever be a clear or easy win on this one for either hero.
Wolverine....
Official Ratings[46] | ||
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Captain A. ....
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Wolverine. Stronger, faster, has keener senses, weapons can't be taken away from him, and has an AMAZING healing factor, and has better feats. All yalls that say cap don't have an explanation.
THIS pwns all
@alphaprime said:
I'm a fan of both Captain America and Wolverine so here's some Logical & Unarguable Facts:
1- Wolverine's skeleton and Claws are made from Adamantium which is lets say is the second strongest metal (yet adamantium and Vibranium are equally strong but yeaaaaa okay lets not argue about that).
2- True that Caps heal 10times faster than a normal human but wolverine heal much faster than that (Fact).
3- Wolverine wont stand his ground and draw a big red X mark on his forehead saying " YOOO BOB KEEP ON HITTING ME WITH YOUR SHIELD ON MY HEAD UNTIL I'M KO'd ", he will be fighting and evading (Fact), but still Caps will manage to hit Wolve several times.
4- Caps is a super soldier and no doubt with a better (Agility) speed, almost equal strength (Unarguable), lesser experience since Wolverine was in " Civil War, WW1, WW2 & Vietnam " so hes more experienced, Wolverine's hearing, smelling and visual senses are better than Caps (In case there was a hide and seek game lol while they are fighting in a forest or building or something like that).
5- Due to his Adamantium skeleton and better healing, Wolverine has a better resistance and durability.
6- Maybe their battle will last for a long time, hours or maybe days (Since they fought together in WW and later with the avengers so they almost know each others techniques).
7- A) Wolverine killed Phoenix!!! (Thanks to his healing factor which proves its way better than Caps), Shes considered one of the strongest creatures in both Marvel and DC universe and shes by far WAY stronger than Caps.
AND
B) It took the Hulk to kill wolverine (Yet he caused him a lot of hard time) and once again The Hulk is also one of the most powerful creatures in both universe and compared to him Caps is like an Ant fighting an Elephant.
8- You say wolverine was KO'd many times by bullets, for your info, in Origins movie, he took 1 Adamantium bullets in his skull while jumping on Striker and 3 more while Striker was standing few inches away from him and yet he only lost his memory and woke up few seconds after, as for X Men 2 movie, the cop shot him in his head and also went up 10 seconds later and in X Men 3 he was hit by The Juggernaut and went up again and as for other times he was KO'd he took a lot of damage before it happened, can anyone tell me that Caps can take the same kind and amount of damage without his shield and stay alive? I DON'T THINK SO!!! (Not with Phoenix, Hulk or a ADAMANTIUM BULLET TO HIS HEAD!!!).
9- Caps shield durability is very impressive and powerful, true, it does resist to damage and absorbs it by causing vibrations this is why the name Vibranium and it did resist to Thor's hammer in The Avengers but in the series it was broken by Loki when he took over Asgard while Odin was in his " Odin's Sleep" so without his Shield, Caps loses 50% of his threat.
Conclusion: " Wolverine will win but Cap will cause him a hard time " so Wolverine's haters deal with it cause i did read some comments based on fans hate that simply don't like Wolverine and that's wrong. So if you are a Captain America's fan and hate Wolverine or the other way around, you don't have the right to say bad things just cause you don't like the character.
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