Why Diversity in Comics is Much More Important Than You Think

Thanks for the answer,Batwatch!

I'm pleased to see the consensus and the views of people,but at the same time,I strongly dislike when some people try to talk down on others. Unfortunately,there are some people on this website (and in this world around us) who are too much like that. I agree with everything you said. In fact,I don't think I can say it any better.

+1 follow

By the way,do you have some sort of website or blog?

I'm gonna be honest and say the realist thing for a moment. Comic fans talk a lot of big talk, saying things should be different, stop it with the same old stories, and be more diverse. But when companies do actually try to do it, they start to complain, and criticize them for trying to do exactly what they were requesting the whole time. Comic fans(and I'm being very general) have a very one track mind, and are open minded at all. All this talk about diverse characters, but if they bring in someone new. You complain, like with the whole Wally West and Miles Morales replacing Spider-man. How many readers out there will actually go out and buy a new book with a minority character? Because I'm sure not a lot of them do it, and when it does happen, they don't even care.

Before anyone comes at my neck. I support minority characters, I will go out and buy a new comics with a minority character. That's the reason why I started reader Ms. Marvel, Ghost Rider, Vibe, Ultimate Spider-Man, I'm gonna get the Storm and Spider-man 2099 solo.

Good questions.

Let's take the easy one first. No, they did not disappoint me. There are communities online who have a much more unhelpful view on these sorts of issues than does ComicVine. In my own view, more than half of the comments here are perfectly reasonable, and even those comments that have some things with which I disagree have some good points as well. Few people seem to be overly hostile which is probably the most important thing when it comes to these sorts of issues.

As far as the consensus view, there are definitely some things ComicVine can agree upon. First and foremost, I didn't see a single comment that was against the idea of more diversity in comics. (excepting a few that wanted more diversity in general but had a few reservations on specific kinds of diversity and these comments were few and far between) However, ComicVine was pretty divided past the point of wanting more diversity.

I'd say the biggest divides are regarding. A. How important is diversity? and B. How do we go about creating more diversity? In the first camp, some people seem to think that diversity is extremely important and must be included in comics as quickly as possible in order to give all people heroic representations and improve story telling by making comics closer fit reality. Others think that comics do need more diversity, but it's not a critical issue. People of all classifications can enjoy, relate and aspire to white, heterosexual, male characters like Batman and Spider-man because it's not their classifications that are important in the first place. On this point, I'd say ComicVine leans fairly strongly towards the "Diversity Now!" side of the argument. As far as how to introduce more diverse characters, some people think comic companies should actively try to create characters as diverse as possible through whatever means necessary to make them popular whether that be hyping them through media blasts, changing the classification of preexisting characters or launching new titles with relative unknown minority characters just to get them attention. The other side wants a more subtle approach to story telling where new diverse characters are created and introduced slowly, naturally gain a fan base through exposure and finally get their own starring role. On this issue, I'd say ComicVine has a moderate preference for introducing and using more diverse characters slowly rather than trying to create a character just to meet a quota.

Also of interest, there does seem to be a stronger desire among ComicVine racial minorities for a more diverse comic book universe. However, these divides are not as strong as you might suspect especially among racial minorities. Though I saw some racial minority people saying they desperately wanted more representation, I also saw many saying it was not that important and that they hated when comics tried to transparently shoehorn diversity into comics.At the same time, many of the people fiercely demanding more minority representation were white.

Regarding Wally West, I didn't see anybody say they dislike the new Wally West just because he was black. Many people pointed towards his altered personality, but most just objected to a change in a significant change in a popular character and the lazy way DC decided to go about introducing diversity.

As far as what I took from all this, I don't know that I had any big revelations, but I did enjoy seeing the different perspectives. There is something behind all of this that deeply disturbs me, but I find it difficult to parse it out in words. Obviously, there were some who seemed to be truly intolerant of people with different views, and that's an obvious problem, but it's those contentious on the other side that leave me with a kind of vague apprehension.

I don't have any problem with someone who wants more diversity in comics and believes that it's important for minority people to have role models. I don't have a problem with people who think comic companies should make this a priority and invest resources into it, but there are some people who seem a little antagonistic towards white culture, and that makes me nervous. It's that whole, "Check your privilege," idea that's been making the rounds recently; it's a very dangerous thing in my book. Saying, "Check your privilege," is just a fancy way of saying, "Shut up white man," and it's just as demeaning as telling any minority that they should feel bad and be quite because of their race. With a few people, I felt some of that current in the mix. For instance, one person wanted to know the race of another person because a white person couldn't understand a black person's need for representation. Are we really going back to that way of thinking? You can't understand this issue because of your race? You're just saying that because of your race? It's a bad deal.

Anyway, I'm getting tired and my eyes are crossing, so hopefully I'm making some sense. Just in case I'm not, let me put it like this. I'm fine with anyone sharing their views and wanting greater representation, but I'm not fine with anybody trying to make anybody else feel guilty for who they are. If it's wrong to make someone feel bad for being black, it's wrong for making someone feel bad because they are white. If it's wrong to make someone feel bad for embracing homosexuality, it's wrong to make someone feel bad for disagreeing with homosexuality. If we really want to live in a tolerant society, we have to be respectful of everyone as long as they are being peaceful. Otherwise, we are just changing one whipping boy for another.

I want my comics to reflect what I see everyday. If that means changing a character's ethnicity, gender or sexual identity, so be it. Keep it coming. The faster, the better.

what if his personality isn't changed isn't he still familiar?

Says Black Wind)

Now that I think about Wally is only half black so if the race change is a problem for you you should only focus on his white half and there you go.

There is still NO reason why they had to completely change a character that we have all been a fan of for many years. I hope they reboot soon so we can get a Wally that we are all a bit more familiar with.

@batwatch I just have to ask,what do you think the consensus of these comments are? And what have you taken from them? Did theyt disappoint you (in general)?

In all seriousness:

Comic fans say we want new stuff. But we tend to gravitate towards the same things. I think because sometimes we have sky high expectations. It is not easy to just be all "BAM!" New, diverse character.

Miles Morales and Kamala Khan are cases where it worked. But look at Simon Baz. Ain't nobody thinking about him. Think DC and Marvel don't try very often because they don't have faith these brand new characters can explode. Its hard to be invested in someone all new when you love 30+ year old characters with established history.

Hmmm.

The directors at DC/Marvel are in a tough spot. Assuming they want to diversify their comics to reach a larger fan base and have it be successful, is a tough sell. Brand spanking new characters often fail to launch and stay afloat. Comic fans love established characters with established history. Any changes done to an existing character will be viewed with contempt. Most would assume it was an over-reaction to become more politically correct.

If I were going to launch a new diverse hero, I'd check the main heroes stories, particularly silver age tales. There were a lot of "one and done" heroes and villians that popped up. I'd create a list of the ones that I thought might be easy to modernize and might be the most appealing, then I'd involve the fans. Ask comic book buyers which of the following would they be most likely to check out. Then I'd release it.

Diversity takes a lot of time. Trying to force it creates friction and animosity. Just my two cents.

If you're a Rolling Stones fan, you will (or should) appreciate it when other artists cover one of their songs you love and puts their own spin on it. But you're still going to want the pure, unadulterated stones song. Or you may enjoy the odd cover band, but when you want to see your stones you aren't gonna be happy with something that isn't Mick and boys doing what they've always done.

I am ok with what-if stories or non-connon tales that change aspects of characters like race, sexuality, whatever. But at the end of the day, if they made Batman a Chinese billionaire and said this is what Batman is now, then no. So for the Wally West example, if I was a big fan of the character I'd be upset with it too.

@batwatch:

I'm not against it. let's just say that. I'm fine with it. If it happens.....ok. it's not really a big deal to me. But I don't like how political correctness gets involved with it and characters like Khan are practically only there to make money. It's unnecessary. You can easily write a character like Miles Morales without making a big deal about his skin color. you can write Khan as a Muslim-American without the company(marvel) and the media trying to use it as a advantage for sales and to purposely be politically correct. In my opinion, Miles' skin color hasn't been brought up in a "some people are different than others" way, whereas Khan was created practically for that reason. The character could've been interesting by itself if Marvel didn't just throw it out there to get money by advertising it strictly by the "diversity" thing.

@comedy_brosusa:

You mention the need for diversity in media because if we see a group of people portrayed in one certain way all the time, we will begin to think that everyone in that group acts that way. I agree in principle that these kinds of stereotypes could influence people, but I don't see this existing in pop culture. Sure, the hero in most shows/movies/ect. is white, but the hero almost always has a diverse group of heroic allies who demonstrate a wide range of personalities and characteristics. The way some people talk about it, it's as if every black person in pop culture is a gangsta and every gay man is a drama queen, but this is not American pop culture at all.

Okay, I keep hearing it said that Wally had to be black in the comics because Wally would be black in the series. Is there an actual source for this where DC said, "Our hands were forced?" I really don't much care that they made Wally black, but I keep hearing this and it makes no sense to me because it seems to imply A. that Wally had to be black in the TV series for some reason and B. that DC has to walk in lockstep with the Television universe even though characters have often been represented in different ways across various mediums.

Good point. I wouldn't much like it if they've turned Wally into an angst filled rebel, but as you say, a lot of heroes start off a little rough and become heroic with time. This new Wally might become very similar to pre-52 Wally in a year or so.

Not that I'm for the changes. I'm against the reboot as a whole.

Well duh, but as fans, you don't have to be quite about changes you dislike.

I wish I could see the humor in that, but is smacks way too much of the progressive eugenics movement that was all the rage in the early twentieth century. History repeats itself, and I'd hate to see it become kosher to murder the mentally impaired.

I think perhaps the bigger reason Vibe's book failed was that he came out of nowhere. Most successful series launches are based off of preexisting popular story arcs where the character or team builds some popularity. Look at how Reign of the Supermen lauched Superboy and Steel or how Knightfall launched Azrael and also gave Catwoman, Robin and Nightwing a little more lift to get off the ground. Where did Vibe come from? He wasn't in demand. Did he even have a single appearance in the last decade leading up to his own series?

If you had actually read the entirety of the article, you would know that inferiorego (hope I remembered your name correctly) was in no way harassing the child but rather encouraging him to try a new series. He didn't call the kid names or do anything to make him feel bad for his views nor did he say anything negative about the family. In comments, he specifically mentioned that he didn't think the boy's reaction was surprising or inappropriate; he was simply surprised to see Spider-Man, who he believes to be the white Peter Parker, is suddenly black.

I'm wary of people with an agenda brainwashing and bullying the young as well, but that is not the case in inferiorego's article.

I'll grant that inferior ego did do some assuming about "Ted" being taught some bad ideas, but in what way is saying, "I really like this character and comic," reeducation? Are you saying that it's bad for adults to recommend comics to kids?

More or less. I think the topic's interesting, I've had a hard week and decided to do something fun on my off time, and though I think the color of a character is a trivial issue, I think there are some serious issues (basically racism on both sides) underlying this topic about which I wanted to try and keep in check.

every comic character should look like superman LOL

Basically my positions are: if diversity in comics (meaning, I suppose, featuring a gay, person of color, or a gender bending protagonist) is central to a plot, it should not be forced, but should be interesting (natural?) enough to compel readers' attention. And it should evolve somewhat naturally to allow suspension of disbelief in a reader. (I think it would be cool to have a superhero along the line of an African American type of Daredevil (NOT a suddenly black Daredevil, but a new original character) to rise from the squalor of an inner city slum to avenge civil and criminal wrongs by virtue of his wit and decency. Having grown up reading Spiderman and Green Lantern, it seems arbitrary and shallow for subsequent illustrators and writers to alter the essence of these characters for shock value or PC hooey. I suspect it is, as ever, really just to make a buck and stimulate sales. Regarding the tendency in the Sci-Fi community to eat their own (Orson Scott Card comes to mind) and boycott a writer's work because of anti-gay remarks made decades ago (the boycott not very effective in view of Card's recent movie hit), it is another trendy attempt to control art, opinion, and what some consider the norm for "diversity" sake. As science fiction has always been about pushing the envelope and stinging the conscience of Man, it is likely you will see a push-back by conservative writers not afraid to rile the New Norm. It's what writers do. We leave book burning to other mindsets.

Even though im black I don't think they should change characters races. Wally West should have stayed ginger. With that said I wouldn't mind a black flash character like how they did Spiderman. For the most part, Changing a characters race by force doesn't work like Marvel nows Nick Fury, jr comes across as forced and its kinda lame. It'll have to come across as natural. I feel ultimate Nick Fury came across as cool because he had a unique personality as opposed to mainstream Nick Fury who at the time was pretty one note and no one really cared about him. But characters that are already unique shouldn't be changed. That's just my opinion.

i didnt say that ms marvel changed her name in continuity to cap marvel to make room for a new ms. marvel ...what i meant was THAT BEHIND THE SCENES MARVEL MADE THAT MOVE WITH A PLAN TO BRING IN A NEW MS MARVEL as in the editoral staff at marvel. i guess they fanally gave up on bringing the original cap marvel back to life after that secret invasion skrull cap marvel travesty. but anyway the new ms marvel needs time and development ...just the promotion of it was weak all over the news about an islamic superhero it felt like they were trying to hard , like it was a token move ....like......"LOOK WE HAVE AN ISLAMIC HERO"..." LOOK HOW DIVERSE WE ARE" but its almost offensive its like token on south park almost. just put out the comic and let fans decide don"t shove it down our throats

Just be honest and say that diversity bothers you. Don't sugarcoat it.

I respect this a lot. I also think we need diversity in comics writers as well, because they are able to get a perspective that white writers usually aren't able to have because they have first hand experience with the sort of ordeals what minorities go through.

Side note. I am a Wally West fan, I hated the new Wally West, I want to hate him, but I just can't. I am still upset about the change, and I feel they should have never done it. Because they did it in the more idiotic of ways, and make Wally a stereotypical black teenager, which is what really upsets me the most. But I want to give the new Wally a chance at least.

I also feel as though DC has a lot of potential character they could use, to broaden their scopes. Imagine like a Vibe, Static, and Blue Beetle team up. Like they have their own versions of Teen Titans, imagine how great that would be, and how much popularity it could someday achieve.

But a main issue, I think is that minority characters are not hyped up as much. If they can hype up Superman 32 and Detective Comics because they have a new creative them for months. Why can't they do that for a new book, starring a minority character? Imagine what they can do if they wanted to bring a lot of attention to a New Static or Blue Beetle comic

@v_scarlotte_rose:

if you had read my whole post, I'm not saying you didn't, I had said this:

I'm not saying not addressing the problem of diversity is right either, but in a way marvel is creating their own issues here. I get Khan has inhuman roots. then fine. so then don't make this a political statement. no one is complaining about their not being a Muslim character, so either do it or don't do it, but don't make a diversity thing out of it. Now if their were problems, say Marvel made the character w/o the whole "she will be dealing with diversity problems" and then people started to become harassed because of the character( which is unlikely since realistically no one in the mainstream cares what goes on in the comics culture unless it's provocative) then ok, do an issue where the character gets bullied, and she gets stronger form it. then be done with it. don't drag out the issue for longer than it has to be.

This basically addressed that I know she had inhuman roots and I know she wasn't put in their for nothing, but I feel like it could've been done w/o the whole diversity thing attached. Like I said, if they wanted to put out the character and she's Muslim-American...that's fine! but I just hated how the media had to make a big deal out of it. That just made it seem more about political correctness and money. Overall, I think the concept could've blown right over if it wasn't covered my mainstream media and Marvel didn't start a commotion over it.

An it's not preaching about Islam. Not once has it suggested that we should all be converting because it's so great. If anything, it actually questioned/criticised part of it.

I know it's not "preaching' about it. what I meant by it still was kind of, was that by even addressing the whole Muslim issue, it could still be indirectly preaching about the subject. The issue wasn't needed. She could've been created as a Muslim-American without the hype, and it could've gone over fine. like I said before. The hype was just created to sell the book even more and try to get the whole "diversity issue" out there. I don't think it was necessary to do that to sell the book.

Also, she's outselling all the other female solo titles at Marvel, so some people do still care.

My point precisely! The hype caused the sales to go up. once the hype dies down, I don't know how many people are going to care about it. I mean she could just fade out, OR, she might become a popular character, I'm honestly not sure myself! but we'll just have to see. I just think the whole thing wasn't addressed and dealt with in the best way. That is my main issue with characters like Khan. It seemed like they were trying to make everyone happy, without thinking about what stuff will make a good story. But that was the way it came off to me. like I said, we'll just have to see what happens with the character.

@batwatch: You read through all 7 pages?

@v_scarlotte_rose: I doubt 90% of the people complaining about her book or the status quo haven't even touched her book.

And I'm guessing that,according to some people,that we just can't create new characters at all....

I am not sure I get what you're saying. What is your point exactly? And him being black "is a little much..." how?

@twix_right_side: I would agree, hence, perhaps the young reader's reaction--laughter. Not ignorant or evil, just surprise: Spider-Man is now a young black kid. Rather than three adults delivering a comic book store sermon while assuring us the reader's mom really is a nice person, why don't they admit, yeah, Spidey somehow being black is a little much, but check this out...(here they introduce ORIGINAL superheroes of color, indeterminate gender, etc.). Actually, more subtly introducing comic characters with differences like mutant powers, physical imperfections, alien origins and so on was the traditional method of artfully exploring diversity in comics and Sci-Fi.

If it ain't all white, it ain't right.

That's not how that happened. Carol was renamed to Captain Marvel way before Kamala took on the Ms.Marvel name.

Whether people asked for it or it or not, she seems to be quite popular with people, and as I posted, there seems to be evidence that she's bringing in new Muslim readers. It's true that Marvel will make money from her comic of course, but that's not why she was created. She was created because they saw an opportunity to launch a character that wasn't necessarily being represented already:

“I was telling him some crazy anecdote about my childhood, growing up as a Muslim-American,” Ms. Amanat said. “He found it hilarious.” Ms. Amanat and Mr. Wacker noted the dearth of female superhero series and, even more so, of comics with cultural specificity."

I'm not sure what you mean about her coming out of the blue. She got her powers from the Terrigen Mists during Infinity/Inhumanity, so she does at least have a tie to what was going on at the time.

Also, she's outselling all the other female solo titles at Marvel, so some people do still care.

They're still doing her origin story, so it's a little soon to be doing things with her outside her own series.

An it's not preaching about Islam. Not once has it suggested that we should all be converting because it's so great. If anything, it actually questioned/criticised part of it.

I didn't say they were. I meant that some will connect to X character while some will connect to Y. What I said had nothing to do with him just being a white male character

@nappystr8:

I can't say I really understand dc in relation to milestone. They aquired the rights to these great characters, and they've just sat on them. Sure, they launched voodoo and static, but they changed (from what I hear) static big time from his previous series and have him a new boring feel. I know nothing about voodoo other than that she was a stripper, and that hardly seems like the kind of book fans were demanding. Since the new 52 launch, have they even tried to use a single milestone character? Dc frustrates me.

@captainmarvel4ever:

Batwoman worked though I can't think of another dc diverse character that has succeeded.

@kal_smahboi:

I think it's a perfect analogy. Some people might care about the color of skin and some may not, but if diversity is good in and of itself, then we should all strive to make sure we have a diverse group of sexual partners across all races. To do anything else would be to shun diversity. On the other hand, you could ignore race and just let yourself be attracted to whoever you are attracted to. The same goes with comic characters.

My problem with diversity is good for diversity's sake is that I don't believe that to be true. If I'm going into surgery, I don't care how diverse my surgical team is. I don't want to know how many gay, Hispanic and Hindu doctors will be working on me. The only thing in are about is whether they are good at their jobs.

In the exact same way, I don't much care about the race of a superhero. I want interesting characters I can respect and admire who are well written of whatever race, orientation, ect. Making bronze tiger a member of the justice league might make things more diverse, but it won't necessarily make it a better story.

As far as Wally, I haven't read him yet, so I have no rhoughts. I do agree that a race change should not ruin a character for fans.

@barkley

I've read nearly this entire page and haven't seen one person say they hate Wally west because of his race.

So it's ok to kill off a hero who had been around for 160 issues to make room for a new one? Also I wouldn't call Miles a brand new character so much as a retooled Spider-Man. Keep in mind Pete didn't die and some years later the editors or writers decided to bring back a Spider, It wasn't an organic decision. Pete was murdered for the sole purpose of bringing Miles in.

That definitely isn't the right way to do it from my point of view. They may as well have "co-opted" Pete and swapped his race. And added the venom sting.

I think they are afraid to see a core member of the team's solo book potentially fail. I think we are ready for a Cyborg comic (perhaps Cyborg and Shazam by Johns...?).

I'll never understand why they haven't given Cyborg his own book in the New 52. Every other member of the team started the reboot with their own on-going title. Making efforts to create diversity is wonderful, but they need to start taking better care of the ones they already have.

how many times have d.c. been rebooted? it was rebooted at least 2 other times. people say it's not about race, but most of it is about race. no one raised this much a stink when the characters were rebooted, but were still white. now all of a sudden there is this big controversy because the character is black. every time d.c. was rebooted there were big changes to the heroes. how many times have different heroes' origin story been changed? almost every reboot all the characters get changed. now the flash is black, and everyone makes this big fuss. race is still a big deal in this country. people can moan about the fact that they changed the character, but that happens in every reboot so that's not a valid argument for all the hate i see here. i'd rather have this than that 'one more day' crap they pulled with spiderman.

@twentyfive

These companies are making baby steps towards the solution of getting comics where they should be. Now it is up to the audience to help them get there as well.

theyre doing it for money. it has nothing to do with what some people think "right" looks like

@iaconpoint: what's a mooslim? Is that like a slim cow?

the media does that. missing people happen everyday, they pick who is news worthy. the media as your marker just shouldn't be. it is kinda a big deal Black Adam(not always drawn as such) and now Khan/Baz are the only mainstream superhero's. both not falling off the face of earth like Naif or Arabian knight because of the hype they got and use of famous monikers.

No, but he really wasn't that interesting before Rictor became his romantic partner. He was yet another "bred/made/trained to be an elite warrior"-type which we've seen before. And his creator, Rob Liefeld, has a reputation as being somewhat of a hack, and to speak bluntly, Shatterstar was a product of the '90s when having two blades on one sword was all that was needed to be cool. Liefeld gave the character no personality and just designed him to be some emotionless warrior, so is it surprising that I find the character interesting after other writers fill in the void and actually make him stand out for something?

Sometimes, to make a character interesting, you just have to do something with them, and I thought this added both to his and Rictor's back-stories for no additional cost. You even use the term "boring hero" but at the very least we're talking about him, which means there is something worth talking about.

@kasino:

yeah. I know everything is for money. The Ms.Marvel thing just seemed altogether unnecessary in my opinion. The media obviously seems to be only covering what they want to about something, so if the comic is any different then what I've read and heard, then I wouldn't know. I feel like it would've been better to launch the series w/o making a deal about the whole diversity thing and if their was a problem then address it. That I can understand. I'm fine with that, but it makes me annoyed when they make a big hoopla over the situation. I mean it could've just blown right over and the series could've been less hyped, BUT, Marvel probably wanted to hype the series more to get more mainstream coverage. But that's just my theory on it. overall, I'm fine with Khan and the diversity problem, but it was hyped too much for me to not believe it isn't all for the money. Like I said before, I'd be fine with it if it didn't seem like they were purposely trying to make a major payday off of it.

everything is for money. Superman is for money. Parker is for money. comics in general are for money. no need to bring it up. political correctness? I don't know? new characters are constantly introduced. khan being Pakistani descent isn't as big of deal in her book as the quoted statement. Sh rarely deals with this issue and more so getting her "wings" as a hero. Being called ms.Marvel is a homage to her hero but nothing more. As for Ted, he could have come back and Reyes has as many 'spanish' situations as Kamala had as a pakistani teenage girl.

people aren't "complaining" about a lack of Muslim characters but it does not mean they do not want them. Marvel hasn't done much with her because she's new. it takes much longer or a move into other mediums for a new character to be established. Reyes became much more popular after the show and black Nick Fury exploded after the Ultimates movie(in comic world) and the marvel movies(mainstream. For the most part established characters are decades old and new ones are offspring/disciples of an established character. as i said her character doesn't deal with this issue as much as you seem to think but when she does it just so be the type of life people deal with, this post and others being a prime example.

your idea for how she deals with diversity is ok but established superheroes have always been ables to have multiple series on the subjects with no problem.

i just hope d.c. and marvel do more to promote their minority characters. d.c. put characters like icon and static into their main continuity. why don't they promote them more. static already had an established fan base do to the cartoon. however, they have done nothing with him so far. icon is a great character. so far he has done nothing. blue marvel is a good character. i think that he should be featured more. his power set gives him the ability to be a heavy hitter. why can't blue marvel be in the regular avengers? a lot of comics die do to lack of promotion. you have to know they are out there to buy them. you can have the best story and comics in the world. however, if no one know they exist then it's pointless.

IM Black n i think it would be better if diversity was reflected in the book. i cant lie as soon as i found out the new spiderman is black i immediately wanted to read it. i think diversity will grab more ethnic backrounds resulting in comic book bringing cultures together

i actually like the idea of some d.c.s iconic characters being black. it's all about perception. it's not about arrogance. there have been studies showing that kids are being trained from the beginning to be racist. if all they see are white characters being the heroes and have all the best parts then that will be normal to them. the situation will repeat itself. when they get older and in charge, they will put white people in the most important jobs and only buy things that only feature white people. it's a cycle. it will only repeat itself. it's not going to stop magically. racism isn't just all about people in the kkk. it's all the subtle things, too. it's the black guy always dying in the movie. it's hollywood not wanting to green light movies with a black cast. it's about all the major comic book heroes being white. people have to see other races in prominent roles. it has to be normal to see blacks, hicpanics, asians, and other races in major roles. it will only get that way if the major companies start doing something. it can work. look at miles morales. people hated him at first. now he is arguably the most popular ultimate character. a lot of it is because he is a good character. however, i think most of it is because he took up the mantle of spiderman who is marvel's flagship character. some people are still hating on miles because he is black. i am sick of people saying it's not about race when it is all about race. some people here hate the fact that the flash has changed, and that's it. some of you hate the new flash now because he is black, and you can't deny that. read your history. some of you guys sound just like they did in the 50's and 60's. the status quo doesn't just change on it's on. people have to change it.

Totally, great point. I mean Baz is hardly even developed, it felt forced like someone said "hey let's put in a GL of arab background for the sake of doing such" without having a developed background for the character, lol. He's hardly done anything, the only thing we really know about him is that he feels almost regret becoming a hero during the Forever Evil arch where he's in Firestorm, people cursing him out for rescuing people and him thinking twice. I agree, I think if anything he should be in the middle east fighting terrorists. Or the whole Alan Scott being gay in the N52, ok he's gay and they killed off his BF in like the second or third issue? lol Like ok, that was pointless...lol

@inferiorego: Well said.If I was in your part of the city drinks are on me.

@kasino:

need more? My opinion is that we DON'T need more characters that are put into the universe for no reason, such as Khan. if she needed to be put in that position, then that's fine, but she has no role in anything. At least Miles does. And miles is a good character. Khan just seemed put together so Marvel could A.) be politically correct, even though they weren't ever not being so. and B.) for MONEY!!! their is a difference. Marvel hasn't done anything with the new Ms.Marvel. the old one is still alive! so why is she even here, besides that Marvel wanted money? Jaime as Blue Beetle was absolutely fine. so before anyone(you didn't) thinks this is a racial thing, it isn't. Ted Kord died, needed replacing, so Jaime happened to be there at the wrong place at the wrong time. From an article about Khan:

As much as Islam is a part of Kamala’s identity, this book isn't preaching about religion or the Islamic faith in particular. It's about what happens when you struggle with the labels imposed on you, and how that forms your sense of self. It's a struggle we've all faced in one form or another, and isn't just particular to Kamala because she's Muslim. Her religion is just one aspect of the many ways she defines herself

This is why I don't like it. It's that even though the book isn't "preaching about the Islamic faith," it is. Having her deal with the labels and stuff still seem like some PSA company run title advising about diversity problems. In Ultimate Spider-Man, Miles is Black. ok.....life goes on. there isn't a big deal with that. with Ms. Marvel, there is still that diversity theme that seems to be a factor of it. overall, it just doesn't seem necessary. I'm not saying not addressing the problem of diversity is right either, but in a way marvel is creating their own issues here. I get Khan has inhuman roots. then fine. so then don't make this a political statement. no one is complaining about their not being a Muslim character, so either do it or don't do it, but don't make a diversity thing out of it. Now if their were problems, say Marvel made the character w/o the whole "she will be dealing with diversity problems" and then people started to become harassed because of the character( which is unlikely since realistically no one in the mainstream cares what goes on in the comics culture unless it's provocative) then ok, do an issue where the character gets bullied, and she gets stronger form it. then be done with it. don't drag out the issue for longer than it has to be.

this is so true..i'm hispanic but hate the fakeness of the whole forced diversity ...instead of ms. marvel how about some heroes from the middle east for freedom over in the middle east ....how about if ms marvel or baz were in the middle east using theyre powers that would be different ..i think iraq and syria need them more than america... hardly any main charecters outside america besides black panther and his country is fictional and he lacks his own title ....so the new ms. marvel has her own book that nobody cares about but black panther is being readied for a marvel phase 3 movie but he lacks a title ....dumb

Thanks! Exactly, I mean this stuff just isn't necessary in comics when I go to read Superman and Batman or Justice League. Look at Terry, Batman Beyond he's white(not black or gay etc) and he turned out GREAT! Nuff said. Then you take Simon Baz, ok first "arab" GL yet has hardly even developed, it felt forced like someone said "ok let's put in an arab GL to be politically correct with little to no backstory lol" is kind of boring actually compared to Kyle and Hal honestly. Great post!

Well, there's representation and then there's tokenism which I think Marvel is guilty of. Everyone made a big coo about Northstar getting married in X-men but I didn't feel it was a structurally sound move, similarly to how I felt about Joe Quesada lumping Storm and Black Panther together to appeal to women and black people (*eyes roll out sockets*). To me, that's disingenuous and offensive. Especially when a character like Northstar never even got to date or be out for the longest time then suddenly he has a boring civilian boyfriend and he's tying the knot. Meanwhile, for non-minority characters, marriage is a definite "don't". Emma and Scott? Mary Jane and Peter Parker? Janet and Hank? Lorna and Alex? Kitty and Colossus? All very long term relationships where marriages were severed (and joined AGES ago) or just never happened in an effort to keep things interesting. They have prolonged, interesting, dynamic relationships that have struggles or distinctive chemistry but with the minorities they slap together it's all tra-la-la. It took years for them to finally break Storm away from Black Panther and her character really suffered during the time she was married, we hardly saw her, it did the reverse of what Marvel promised it would do.

Meanwhile, there are characters like Rictor and Shatterstar who are interesting same-sex couples but evidently they're not worth putting the spotlight on for some odd reason and aren't even on titles. The new Ms. Marvel is noted often for being Islamic but what about Monet? The already developed, already popular, powerful X-woman? She's Islamic too but not marketably devout or overt or squeaky clean so she's apparently not as deserving as some random child. Or what about Dust? We hardly ever even see Dust these days. So it seems to me that Marvel sometimes love, love, loooooves to make a big deal about how open-minded they are but are noticeably negligent of characters not solely engineered for good PR.

Frankly, I just don't pay any attention to marketing department endeavors and publicity stunts. There is plenty of diversity if you look closely at writers who actually give a damn about good storytelling.

Couldn't have said it better myself. Everyone now has to meet their quota of dark-skinned folks and homosexuals to stay 'politically correct.' Mindless nonsense that highlights the stupidity and overt racism of modern western society.

I can't believe people have a problem with Miles Morales and Kamala Khan. Those two characters were introduced correctly! They are 1) brand new characters that 2) connected to a popular legacy who were 3) given extraordinary creative teams who 4) crafted a compelling narrative for the character.

Co-opting characters and swapping their races is vastly more controversial. Even if you don't change a single thing about the character save his skin color (Ultimate Fury), people will still complain. If you change up skin color AND mess with personality, then you get a huge backlash.

It is not that hard to introduce new characters, you just have to put your best people on the job. You cannot put a weak creative team on a character who has not been proven capable of selling a solo book and expect the character to be as popular as Nightwing. You must always put your best foot forward!

Take Blue Beetle for example. Jaime Reyes starred regularly in two TV shows. There are loads of kids out there that associate him with being THE Blue Beetle. There is no reason that Jaime should not be on some team book right now. I know Johns wants to bring Ted back but that does not mean the two cannot exist in tandem. In fact the presense of both would likely create a compelling dynamic that is ripe for a book.

the problem i have is not about superhero diversity, it's about changing the race of an established hero:

Miles Morales is not Peter it's his own character it might be a spider man but it's a different one (like Miguel), so i don't have a problem here.

But making Wally West into an african american is just wrong, if they want a black flash create a new character for that, don't change an existing one, my problem would be the same if they had made him asian, mexican or what ever.

And the problem will be the same if the people in charge decide to change characters like black panther, flacon or luke cage into white people.

the new human torch for the movie is wrong and not only that they chose the worst character for that, it's an open bar for racist comments... if they have done it to the Thing or mr. fantastic I don't think it wouldn't be so bad.