Comic Vine News

404 Comments

Why Diversity in Comics is Much More Important Than You Think

It's not just about us. It's about future generations as well.

No Caption Provided

The comic book industry has changed a lot with the past generation. Whether it's the comic book movies bringing fans to the theaters in droves, the animated series captivating kids, or the toys in every store screaming to be played with, this industry is growing in a much different way. People from all walks of life are jumping onto comic books. According to our analytics, 45% of the folks that visit Comic Vine are female. Moreso, people from different cultures and races are also coming into comics at a larger rate. The stereotype of only white, nerdy males read comics is slowly fading away because comic book heroes and villains have invaded American culture, along with the rest of the world.

However, characters within comics aren't changing as quickly. There's a plethora of reasons why the change in comics isn't happening as fast as the readership is, but what people need to realize is that having more diverse characters within comic books is much more important than reflecting those who read the books.

I was in a comic book store, over the weekend. There was a kid (let's call him "Ted") about the age of 10 looking for comics and needed some suggestions. The guy behind the counter asked me to help out, and I showed "Ted" some various books. He said he liked Spider-Man, but trade-wise, all the store had was SUPERIOR SPIDER-MAN, which, in my opinion, is way too heavy for someone that age, so I showed him ULTIMATE COMICS SPIDER-MAN. I told him it was a really cool book because Peter Parker was no longer Spider-Man and this new Spider-Man was really close to his age. He flipped through and saw Spider-Man, in a black suit, kicking some bad guy butt, and he told me it looked really cool. He then flipped to a page where he saw Miles Morales and started laughing. I asked him why he was laughing and he said "he's black."

Now, "Ted" is a good kid. I know his mother, who is incredibly nice, caring and completely normal, but it seems like he's been in an environment, at some point, where some closed-minded folks have put thoughts in his head. He's young and impressionable, so I told him about how cool I thought Miles Morales is and that I actually like him more than Peter Parker, which is all true. Then, another customer chimed in and said he thought Miles was a really cool character and skin color doesn't matter. The guy behind the counter did as well. All-in-all, it turned into a cool moment, and "Ted" ended up excited and bought the book.

People aren't born with prejudice. A baby's first words aren't words of hate. They're usually just words they are familiar with because their parents or someone else around them said them. Hate is taught, and I'm pretty sure almost everyone reading this will agree. There's no better way to stop hate than to educate a whole new generation of readers. How do you do this? By showing people from different walks of life. It's the whole idea of showing readers that people from different cultures and races may seem different from them, but at the end of the day, we're all pretty much the same. That seems silly, but it's a lesson that could be important for the upcoming generation.

From G. Willow Wilson & Adrian Alphona's MS. MARVEL
From G. Willow Wilson & Adrian Alphona's MS. MARVEL

Within comics, there are books doing this. At Marvel, MILES MORALES: THE ULTIMATE SPIDER-MAN, YOUNG AVENGERS, and MS. MARVEL are leading the way. MILES MORALES does a fantastic job at giving readers someone to relate to, even if their skin color is different. YOUNG AVENGERS shows readers that it doesn't matter if you love the same sex or the opposite sex. MS. MARVEL does an amazing job at giving readers insight into what home-life is like in an Islamic family. DC does a fine job at providing strong, well-written female characters like Wonder Woman, Batwoman, and Batgirl, among others. They also have a long list of characters from different cultures that could easily drive their own books, such as Blue Beetle, Cyborg, and Steel.

The point of all of this isn't to make diverse characters for the sake of diverse characters. It's about never having a kid laugh or judge a character in a book because that character isn't the default, which is a white, heterosexual male. Sure, it's true that the majority of readers are white males, but as an industry, making baby steps away from that could be a start.

With any large problem, there is no easy answer though. It's not as simple as editorial shouting "we need more diverse characters" and everything magically falling into place. However, it feels like both Marvel and DC are in a transitional phase to move closer to much more diverse worlds. This is a good start, but another part of this problem is will fans accept this?

New 52 Wally West
New 52 Wally West

In recent months, there's been quite a lot of controversy over characters changing over at DC. Since it's the New 52 and this is a whole new world, creators and editors can take liberties with some characters because they've never been introduced before. The biggest one, in recent, was changing Wally West from white to black. Wally West fans are outraged because it wasn't the character they knew and loved pre-New 52. In addition, there were some personality changes as well, but it's still really early to say the character was ruined or anything over-dramatic like that. This is a subject we've talked to death on the Comic Vine podcast in recent weeks, and most discussions end with me not understanding why fans are upset. Without getting heavily into this whole debate, over changing characters versus creating new ones, it's important to remember that as long as the characters are written well and are compelling on the page, then we should all just enjoy what's presented, and if we don't, then don't buy it.

Creating a more diverse world for comic book characters to live in is not just important because the growing market contains more than just white, heterosexual males reading and these new fans may want characters that reflect them. It's important to educate a whole new generation of readers to show them that it doesn't matter where you're from, what you look like, or who you love, every different type of person on this planet is still a person. In essence, we're all the same. We're all comic book readers and comic books are and should be for everyone.

Mat "Inferiorego" Elfring writes and podcasts on Comic Vine, tweets about comics and wrestling, and sings "What's Up" by 4 Non-Blondes way too much for a man in his 30s.

409 CommentsRefresh

Avatar image for kasino
Posted By kasino

@dernman said:
Loading Video...

@inferiorego: Have you seen this?

context isn't needed for diverse characters..thats the message and its perfect

Avatar image for gojira2014
Posted By Gojira2014

My first Diverse character of Comics I was shown was Spawn thanks to HBO series. His comics are very fun to read too. I was never too keen at first of Miles Morals being Ultimate Spiderman, but I grew to like him like my friends have. He is ok.

Avatar image for kilowog52
Edited By kilowog52

While I am against the race changes to characters such as Wally, it's less to do with the race and more to do with my anger with the New 52 reboot in general.

I don't however understand why people have issues with Miles Morales, or the new Ms. Marvel, who if the other posters on this thread are correct, is named Kamala. From reading posts on this thread, it seems the main argument against Miles is that the writers and/or editors at Marvel purposefully killed Peter, who readers were invested in, just to put a person of color in the spandex. I however, see the situation differently. It appears to me that the reason Peter died was to further show how ever since Ultimatum, any character could die at any time in the Ultimate universe. And then once they had that all planned out, they realized they still needed a Spider-Man, so they decided to create a legacy hero, and decided it would be better if he wasn't just another white kid. Similarly, it seems the only problem people here have with Kamala, is that they liked Carol Danvers under the Ms. Marvel moniker. Someone said that Carol was promoted to Captain Marvel to make this title available for Kamala. However, renaming Carol Captain Marvel seemed like a logical move to me. She had been a mainstay in the Marvel Universe for a long time and had earned the title, not to mention, how being an officer in the military, and if I'm not mistaken, something even higher ranking than Captain, the title "Miss" was a little demeaning in this day and age. I seem to remember one user, arguing when this was pointed out to them, that because they did that, it acknowledged that she had been disrespected this long. Well I see that as similar to a situation where if one friend does something somewhat awful to another, and is unable to apologize for years, but is finally able to apologize and make amends at a later date, provided the victim does not hold a grudge, wouldn't that be worth something?

Another argument I've seen a lot here is that adding these characters is "not necessary." Well, is any fictional story necessary? Their purpose is to provide exciting entertainment, and these characters were added for the same reason. Like from what I have read about Kamala in the All New Marvel Now Point One one-shot, it's plot is very involved in the struggle between the traditional ways and modern progress, both of which have their values. Sorta like Fiddler on the Roof. Adding additional plot details always makes things more exciting. Like when the alarm on Peter's phone went off signaling the curfew Aunt May had set for him while he was in the middle of battle with a supervillain in just about every episode of the Spectacular Spider-Man cartoon. (Holy run-on sentence, Batman!)

Anyway, if you want to try to poke holes in my logic about how awful the reboot is, feel free, but I probably won't buy it. But remember my issue is with the reboot as a whole because I wanted to see what happened next after where several awesome pre-Flashpoint titles such as REBELS, Justice Society of America, etc left off. And remember, in the final issue of Robinson's JLA run, that League disbanded, so of course a new League was going to rise out of the ashes and it could have featured the exact same characters as the New 52 League, and still provide a great jumping on point, without deleting the DCU's entire history. This title and probably Action and Detective probably should have been renumbered for the sake of the retailer, and I wouldn't care if they had done it with all of them and cancelled several titles and replaced them with new ones, it's the continuity reboot that gets me.

Anyway, I'd like to address the several users who on this very thread accused Simon Baz of having no interesting backstory. I'd like to ask them if they have even read Green Lantern #0. Granted the conclusion of that backstory wasn't as good as it could have been due the the Third Army story rushing things along. But what really made him fade into obscurity was Johns' departure from the book. Venditti and the other GL family writers don't really have use for him in their stories aside from having him be the one Green Lantern allowed on Earth while Sector 2814 is ceded to the Reds. And he appears in an odd panel every now and again. Now Johns was supposed to carry Baz with him to Justice League of America, but it wasn't very easy to give him the limelight given that Trinity war, then Forever Evil happened, followed by the books' cancellation. I don't know why Lemire didn't take him to Justice League United, the fact that the only place he is allowed to be in Sector 2814 is Earth is not a factor given they travelld via Zeta Beam to whatever sector Vath Sarn and Isamot Kol hail from. Anyway, I am once again ranting, but if they gave Baz an Earth-based solo book, I'd read it in a heartbeat. We all know we really haven't had any Earth-based Lantern stuff since before Infinite Crisis.

Avatar image for batwatch
Edited By BatWatch

@captainmarvel4ever said:

@batwatch: They are either saving them, or (and this is very possible) they recently lost the licensing rights to Milestone.

Batwoman dose not tie into ANY of the Batman books, and Vibe was the best example of showing off a new character. Marvel can make new characters without any prior appearances and have them catch on. This shows that DC clearly needs their own approach to increasing diversity.

The New 52 helped me, and many other new readers start reading comics, Marvel Now has not helped. Also, if your not even reading any New 52, then why should you care about Wally if he's not in any books your reading?

It is impossible, but at the same time it's fairly obvious.

I'm a bit confused by many of your comments.

"It is impossible, but at the same time it's fairly obvious." I have no idea what you mean by this.

"The New 52 helped me, and many other new readers start reading comics, Marvel Now has not helped." I'm glad the New 52 helped you find comics, but from the studies I've heard from researchers, the New 52 didn't bring in a lot of new readers. Marvel lost a little market share during the first year of the New 52. Since then, they've regained much of the ground they've lost to DC. Perhaps the New 52 has been more beneficial, (I'm not admitting that point but rather admitting I haven't dove deeply enough into the numbers to state definitively one way or another) but Marvel Now definitely gave Marvel a boost, so it's provably wrong to say it didn't help.

"Also, if your not even reading any New 52, then why should you care about Wally if he's not in any books your reading?" This is such a strange question. First, I am not currently on the battlefront, but I still care about conflicts in the Middle East. Since when do you have to be impacted first hand from something to have an interest and opinion? Second, I know Wally West from his previous incarnations, and like any other fan, I'm interested in seeing how DC handles him. Third, I don't much care about his change of race as I'm assuming you were implying. I find it kind of lazy and PC on DC's part, and I generally don't like the reboot, but it's the heart of the character that is important; the skin is just window dressing, so as long as they are leaving Wally's personality intact, (which they may not be doing according to some reports) I don't much care what race he is except in how it relates to political correctness and lazy writing.

"Batwoman dose not tie into ANY of the Batman books, and Vibe was the best example of showing off a new character. Marvel can make new characters without any prior appearances and have them catch on. This shows that DC clearly needs their own approach to increasing diversity."

Batwoman might stand a lone these days, but she didn't when the character was introduced and developed a following. My whole point with comparing Batwoman to Vibe was the slow launch vs the quick launch. Batwoman was introduced, played a major role and was well received in the very popular 52 series way back in 2006. After 52 concluded, she was a background character for some time until Bruce died in Final Crisis at which point Kate took over Detective Comics for an entire year. This was a natural and gradual way of introducing her to the comic community and letting her develop some demand. By the time the New 52 arrived five years later, fans had been demanding a Kate Kane series for at least a year. Compare that to Vibe's launch where DC took a character who had about ten scattered appearances in the past ten years and suddenly says, "Vibe is the next big character from DC! Check him out in his own series and Justice League of America where he will be one face among a dozen more established heroes! You will love him! You will!" Giving Vibe his own series with this little demand makes about as much sense as giving Shrapnel his own ongoing, and if you don't know who he is, that proves my point.

"They are either saving them, or (and this is very possible) they recently lost the licensing rights to Milestone." What makes you think they lost rights to MIlestone. If so, it seems like that would be a big story.

Avatar image for muyjingo
Posted By MuyJingo

There seems to be primarily two opinions when it comes to diversifying existing characters...those against it (which has nothing to do with hate) and those completely in support of it.

Even if you disagree with the former, I don't see how people fail to understand why it is a valid point or why people would be upset when a character with a large fan base was changed only to appease people and sell more books.

Avatar image for dernman
Edited By Dernman

@inferiorego: With the accents was hard for me at first but I got use to it. Only missed a few words here and there but I was able to piece it together. I was surprised I finished it. Usually I don't have the patience to finish interviews that long.

Online
Avatar image for inferiorego
Posted By inferiorego

@dernman: kinda tough to watch since the audio is pretty rough

Staff
Avatar image for inferiorego
Edited By inferiorego
Staff
Avatar image for dernman
Edited By Dernman
Online
Avatar image for twix_right_side
Posted By Twix_Right_Side

@twix_right_side said:

Very well said.

I just hate forced diversity and stereotypes....kinda like Nu Wally.

And when a character's race is changed in a cheap attempt at diversity.

my thiughts exactly like the new ff movie with a black human torch? what the heck? what's next? white balck panther? and they couldn't make the new wally another guy, no it had to be wally

Thank god I'm not the only one that already hates that action.

I mean,can we just stop pretending that these are the same characters? Because they're literally just different people with the same name stamped on. It's like they're just rip-offs of the main characters.

Avatar image for dernman
Edited By Dernman

@nickthedevil: I don't blame you. These characters are more than just a name. When you no longer see the character associated with the name you either lose interest or have a negative reaction.

Online
Avatar image for nickthedevil
Posted By nickthedevil

@dernman:

I myself am proof of this. I dropped the Flash series altogether for it.

Avatar image for shadowpro
Posted By ShadowPro

Very well said.

I just hate forced diversity and stereotypes....kinda like Nu Wally.

And when a character's race is changed in a cheap attempt at diversity.

my thiughts exactly like the new ff movie with a black human torch? what the heck? what's next? white balck panther? and they couldn't make the new wally another guy, no it had to be wally

Avatar image for yolo_el
Posted By yolo_el

Cool. Now where are the muslim supervillains that kidnap girls and blow up churches?

Superpowered Crips and Bloods?

We need more diversity dammit!

Avatar image for dernman
Edited By Dernman

@captainmarvel4ever:

It is as simple as fixing the way of doing things. It just takes work and not being lazy and it's a much better way then just creating more problems and alienating many of your fans. There is no escaping this truth and no excuse in defense of not. People have already turned against the new Wally because Wally is no longer there. This false idea you have in your head that people are not going to go anywhere is a load of bull. People have already turned against characters and teams because they no longer recognize their characters. Ask Superboy why his book was canceled. Also if DC didn't want him back this new Wally wouldn't be back no matter what race he is and just the fact he is back means he should heave actually been brought back. Don't even joke about Huntress as a good example. Wayne already had a following and Bertinelli no longer has the pull she has pre 52 because there is nothing to her but the name. I've already washed my hand of her and I was a fan before. Marvel makes it work because they put the effort into it. They made effort to make it work. It's not some ignorant idea that they just blinked their eyes and poof it worked. his isn't some special treatment the fans give Marvel. They have their own failures in the past and through trial and error they started getting some right. If DC made more of an effort work would be able to do it also. No you'd rather just throw in the towel, . bury your head in the sand to the real problems , and create/perpetrate problems with cheap tricks which fans are sick of. Furthering the shortsighted mindset that is strangling the industry to death. (as pointed out in my previous post) Congratulations you're part of the problem and not the solution.

Online
Avatar image for avenging_x_bolt
Posted By Avenging-X-Bolt

@captainmarvel4ever:

1. I admit that Huntress isn't all that great of an example because I'm not to knowledgable about her personality change and that she hasn't even been race changed but to be fair .

A. There's nothing wrong with using a super heroic identity while being apart of spy organization, I can name at least 5 heroes who have done the same thing. They only gave Helena this super-spy stuff so they could keep pushing Helena Wayne as Huntress who no one truly cares about.

Anyway, agree to disagree ( I mean it this time, I'm not gonna bug you again lol)

Avatar image for captainmarvel4ever
Edited By CaptainMarvel4Ever

@dernman said:

@captainmarvel4ever: When did I say DC and Marvel should stop making new characters?I said that DC has clearly failed at making new diverse characters and changing old ones may be how they have to do diversity.

When did I say you said that? I clearly was pointing out that your using the changing race as instead of making new characters as a solution because new work they fail. Which in all honesty is oversimplifying bull. You keep ignoring the actual problem that they need to fix which is DC's bad writing, giving them the chances, and for fans to stop whining have some patience because it might take time to get their.

Then I made the correlation to your thinking to a common way of thinking in DC that new characters fail to the the truth that DC relys to heavily on a select few characters, that leads to dumb problematic ideas like race changes, hundreds of attached characters like boy, girl, woman, new characters that is damaging the industry. Not to mention the bad writing that is damaging it.

Campaign for them to fix that and stop being part of problem DC need to fix. (aka creating problems by race changing and not adressing the actual writing and practices of the company)

Again, I think DC did a pretty good job writing, and even if they did have a big problem, it's not as simple as just snapping their fingers to fix it. With Wally being in the new Flash book, which has a great writer, and Wally being a fan favorite character, that ensures he won't leave, and can grow and stick around as a character. Although Wally may be a bad example, as I'm pretty sure DC didn't want him to be black in the first place. The point is though, if you change a character like Huntress, who is well established and liked, then we know she will still be able to stay reliant and grow as a character. I'm really sad to see Vibe go, but if he can't make them cash (even though I think he could be useful in other books) then I can't really say they should keep him. Marvel on the other hand, can make new characters out of nowhere catch on, even without much effort, so that works for them. It clearly is not working for DC even when they try, so if they have to change the race of a few established characters to be more inclusive, I say that's partly how they should do it. I am hoping they will still try and make new characters/fix old ones, and it looks like they are.

Avatar image for captainmarvel4ever
Posted By CaptainMarvel4Ever

@avenging_x_bolt: I will admit that's not the best showcase, but it was for kids. That being said I do hate it when a company doesn't respect a kid's intelligence, but it was only a short (unlike Teen Titans Go).

She's with a secret organization right now with Dick Greyson, of course she's not using a superhero name right now. Further more, what dose that have to do with her personality or skill set?

Because maybe he'll have an extremely interesting character arc on his way to being old Wally. I have to say, the idea of Wally seeing Barry as a father figure, and learning to really just be a kid again sounds kinda nice. Plus if you really are impatient, then just wait a couple months for Wally to be Wally again and jump in.

Exactly, the established Ghost Rider Jhonny Blaze is very popular (and yes so is Danny) which is why it's all the more amazing that he has grown as popular as he is. It's just more proof that Marvel can do it.

1. NO, do not put Static in Teen Titans Go,, he's suffered enough 2. They may actually put Static in this new non sucky Teen Titans series down the road, unless the rumors are true, and DC actually has recently lost the Milestone licensing rights (which would explain why they want to add more black characters)

Avatar image for avenging_x_bolt
Posted By Avenging-X-Bolt

@captainmarvel4ever:

1.If you think that one cheesy short (which captures nearly everything that made people hate him in the first place, which is why he probably only got one of them) is good promotion and they couldn't have done more then it's clear that you have incredibly low standards. I mean really DC? Their trying to make us like a character and their idea of doing that is introducing the most hated version of said character to their larger audience?!?! Who the hell does that?

2. Well she isn't Huntress anymore. That's kinda significant. I'll admit that's pretty much all I know so far and the didn't change h

3. But here's the thing? Why should we care? Why should we be interested in this 12 year old boy and his stereotypical origin and growth when we could have a Wally who already has the things we like about him? Why should we spend a year wasting our money reading about someone we don't like just because he just so happens to bare the name of someone we did?

4. Well duh, it's Ghost Rider who has been awesome in all it's different incarnations. And they didn't have to change his race to do it......wow. Take notes DC

Good Marketing- Ghost Rider had 2 movies, is constantly featured in Marvel games, has had decent roles in cartoons, etc

Good Character

Good Writing

Pretty f*^%>ing simple if you ask me.

5. Was going to isn't enough. They canceled the show before any new viewers could really start to care about him. But the doesn't mean they should just stop trying. It means they should try again without making the same insanely stupid mistake that ruined the previous series, put him in the Teen Titans or Justice League United, have him show up in TTG.

Avatar image for emh_bruce
Posted By EMH_Bruce

The real minorities in comics are non-Americans. Never mind having all these african americans and asian americans and stuff how about some actual africans and actual asians that actually live in africa and asia. It's about time we had some more european heroes who actually live in europe as well.

Thank you, I agree with you

I mean, there's a team called S.H.E. (Super-Heroes of Europe), but no one has used it since Civil War. I only found out about that team, because I wanted to know if there were any Super Heroes from Switzerland (which is where I'm from) and stumbled over White Cross. Tho beside his look and name there's NO info about the character. Nothing about his powers, only that he represents Switzerland and maybe could be a Speedster.

Which is sad, because I, as a Swiss, would really like to know more about him.

The only characters, who I geographically can relate to are Nightcrawler (it takes me ca. 1 hour to travel to Bavaria), Arnim Zola and Flag-Smasher (Morgenthau) (both are Swiss) and sadly the last two are Nazis. =(

So basically two of three Swiss characters are Nazis and the third has no information about him.

Also note that those three Swiss characters are all from Marvel.

Avatar image for captainmarvel4ever
Posted By CaptainMarvel4Ever

@batwatch: They are either saving them, or (and this is very possible) they recently lost the licensing rights to Milestone.

Batwoman dose not tie into ANY of the Batman books, and Vibe was the best example of showing off a new character. Marvel can make new characters without any prior appearances and have them catch on. This shows that DC clearly needs their own approach to increasing diversity.

The New 52 helped me, and many other new readers start reading comics, Marvel Now has not helped. Also, if your not even reading any New 52, then why should you care about Wally if he's not in any books your reading?

It is impossible, but at the same time it's fairly obvious.

Avatar image for captainmarvel4ever
Posted By CaptainMarvel4Ever

@avenging_x_bolt: Wally is only 12, it's clear they want to have him start rough and then transition back to a goofball, and how is Huntress any different?

I liked his short, it's what introduced me to the character. Besides, he was well written and promoted, what else can you ask for?

Exactly, they failed with him.

That show is why people wanted him to have a series in the first place, and it's clear he was meant to have a bigger role in seanon 3, before CN gave them the axe.

That game was made for comic fans, and to introduce non comic fans to the characters, so they clearly dropped the ball.

They can't learn from Marvel, because Marvel has proven they can just make a new diverse character out of nowhere and have them succeed, like the New Ghost Rider, DC clearly struggles with new diverse charters, and it don't look like they can improve, so what can they do? change race.

Avatar image for catfightfan
Edited By catfightfan

If you want to see a hot debate about diversity and especially in terms of changing comic roles to that on film, check out the Fantastic Four (2015) board on IMDb (Internet Movie Database).

Avatar image for batwatch
Posted By BatWatch

@captainmarvel4ever:

Whoops! Guess that shows how much I know about Voodoo. A stripper as a main character makes more sense in the Wildstorm universe; it was quite flashy on the T&A from what little I've seen of it. Does this mean that DC has only tried to push a single Milestone character, Static, since the reboot? What's wrong with them?

I still don't think Vibe had a proper launch. Sure, he tied in with Justice League of America...alongside a dozen other main characters who outshone him. It's not as if Vibe gained popularity in JLA before getting his own series; they launched alongside each other. Marvel may have succeeded with a similar approach; I don't know, but it seems to me that the Batwoman approach is a better way of giving a new character a series.

I disagree that the reboot was necessary. I'm currently not buying any New 52 books. DC did need to do something to spice up their brand, but the way Marvel handled NOW! with a bunch of changes without wiping out continuity seems infinitely better to me. Every story success that has come from the New 52 could have easily happened in the pre-reboot universe. All the stuff I've seen that has actually changed significantly (Nightwing's new background, the Teen Titans abortion) has been for the worse.

As far as whether Wally West's change came from DC or higher up, who knows? It's clearly an appeal to a larger demographic, but without an official word, it's impossible to know where the decision originated.

@twix_right_side: Cool. I'll let you know if I ever get anything going.

Avatar image for voloergomalus
Edited By VoloErgoMalus

@kasino: You speak truly. If Wally West had not only his race changed, but his personality as well, renaming him and declaring him to be a new character would have been more prudent.

Avatar image for kasino
Posted By kasino

I do agree a new Flash as the main flash would have been much better

Avatar image for kilowog52
Edited By kilowog52

@v_scarlotte_rose: I didn't mean to change the topic or anything. i just didn't want people to think that when I said I'm all for diversity in comics, that I condoned people getting sex change operations, or the discussion of such topics in comics. If you would like to further discuss our differences of opinion, I think we'd better do so in PM conversation, as this thread may not be the best place to do so. As you can see, the users of this website have a very wide range of opinions from those who aren't even okay with a Muslim using the name Ms. Marvel, to those who are okay with Miles replacing Peter, but not the fact that Wally is now black, and those who are okay with all of it. And of course I'm not saying that everyone who doesn't like new Wally is racist. It's just the most obvious physical change which gets the most attention from the enraged and alienated fans. Anyway, I'll end this tangent now.

But to everyone who is saying that the reason Wally is now black is because of the upcoming TV show- I don't buy it. It probably did have some involvement in the decision to make new Wally black, as it would be quite a coincidence that both Wally's suddenly were black at the same time. But I don't think Warner Brothers cares so much about what color Wally is to strongarm one of their subsidiaries into changing his race. That just sounds ridiculous to me.

Avatar image for wolverine008
Edited By Wolverine008

Nice article.

Avatar image for wowlock
Edited By Wowlock

I am all for diversity. What I am not for is changing existing characters to fit a certain mold while ignoring their whole history and making it even more steriotypical joke. Oh a young black kid who is in trouble with cops... yea that sounds like a totally new thing and fits Wally sooo well.

I will say what I always say, you wanna diversify ? All the power to you hell even make a Diversified Justice League now that would get attention .. BUT if you take a beloved character and change EVERYTHING but his name....then I have every right to be pissed off about it. That is not how diversifying works. They are basicly trying to cash in on a name without actually giving you all the characteristics of the said name.

At that point, I will say ''Why the hell you don't just create a new character ? '' I won't accept the lazy and forced changes just because '' Oh it will sell better since character is known '' ...yea for a while maybe but those who loved the character probably have no idea who he is now.

And thats what I have to say. Change is always gonna present some opposition but the way they are dealt with is just pathetic.

Avatar image for dernman
Edited By Dernman

@avenging_x_bolt said:

@captainmarvel4ever:

So you're suggesting that rather than improving the quality and effort that they put into promoting minority characters, Dc should just give up and resort to altering established characters? That's pathetic.

Agreed.

Online
Avatar image for dernman
Posted By Dernman

@captainmarvel4ever: When did I say DC and Marvel should stop making new characters?I said that DC has clearly failed at making new diverse characters and changing old ones may be how they have to do diversity.

When did I say you said that? I clearly was pointing out that your using the changing race as instead of making new characters as a solution because new work they fail. Which in all honesty is oversimplifying bull. You keep ignoring the actual problem that they need to fix which is DC's bad writing, giving them the chances, and for fans to stop whining have some patience because it might take time to get their.

Then I made the correlation to your thinking to a common way of thinking in DC that new characters fail to the the truth that DC relys to heavily on a select few characters, that leads to dumb problematic ideas like race changes, hundreds of attached characters like boy, girl, woman, new characters that is damaging the industry. Not to mention the bad writing that is damaging it.

Campaign for them to fix that and stop being part of problem DC need to fix. (aka creating problems by race changing and not adressing the actual writing and practices of the company)

Online
Avatar image for avenging_x_bolt
Edited By Avenging-X-Bolt

@captainmarvel4ever:

So you're suggesting that rather than improving the quality and effort that they put into promoting minority characters, Dc should just give up and resort to altering established characters? That's pathetic. If anything they should be learning from Marvel.

Avatar image for avenging_x_bolt
Posted By Avenging-X-Bolt

@captainmarvel4ever:

1.I never implied any such thing. For example, Wally West and Helena Bertinelli have completely have completely different personalities/histories etc. There's literally nothing left of the old characters for their fans to give a crap about them.

2.Vibe was a character who was generally hated/unknown before the reboot who played books which started strong but eventually fell into mediocrity. It may be your opinion that it was awesome but obviously people disagreed. He also had no mainstream exposure other than that corny Superfriends esque short on DC Nation.

3.Blue Beetle may have had a big role in Young Justice but his solo was deemed mediocre and vastly inferior to his pre reboot series.

4.Statics tv show ended years ago. What have the done since then to maintain his popularity and keep the character fresh other then a relatively microscopic role on YJ?

5.Injustice had Hawkgirl over Hawkman because the mainstream actually knows and cares about her whereas Hawkman is only somewhat popular amongst comic fans.

Avatar image for captainmarvel4ever
Posted By CaptainMarvel4Ever

What does that have to do with race change?

How is that lazy? it could be said that just making a new character can also be lazy.

Its lazy because its just leeching off the popularity of an established character.

They have put a lot of effort into making new diverse characters, and it's not working for them.

Then they have to try harder. Its as simple as that. What have they done to promote these characters? Where was Static or Blue Beetle when Lego Batman 2 came out? Where is Cyborg's solo series? Why wasnt Static included in Injustice even though he was a heavily requested character? What you dont seem to understand is that it one thing to simply create a character, its another to create one and actually promote them.

I don't think they should stop completely, but so far it hasn't worked out for them.

Because they havnt put in enough effort to promote said characters.

In the New 52 DC used the reboot to spearhead lots of new diverse characters, and none of them worked out.

Because most of them were either poorly written (Blue Beetle, Static, Mr. Terrific, Katana) or not promoted well enough .

If they change an established character's race, then that character will still be able to stick around.

Just without anything that made their fans give a crap about them in the first place.

anyway, im done. this conversation is just going in circles.

Again, you call it "Leaching" but it's ensuring that the character won't fade into obscurity.

They did promote a lot of those characters, Blue Beetle had a huge role in Young Justice, and the whole reason Static is so popular is because he had a show (and was probably also going to have a big role in Young Justice season 3). I'm not defending Lego Batman 2 or Injustice, those games had bad rosters right from the start (Hawkgirl instead of Hawkman? really?). Marvel has shown that even without promoting, they can do a new diverse character well. Look at the new Ghost Rider, he had no promotion and now he's taking off.

Vibe is a cool character who had a great book, and he was promoted. He was on the Justice League of America (which was the highest selling comic of 2013) and had his first issue written by Geoff Johns.

If they were poorly written, it just shows how incapable DC really is when it comes to new characters. So until they can get better with new characters, the only way they may be able to get diversity is through changing race.

So your implying the fans only like characters based on their race and physical appearance?

I can agree that it is going in circles, so if you'd like, we can stop here.

Avatar image for avenging_x_bolt
Posted By Avenging-X-Bolt

@avenging_x_bolt said:

@captainmarvel4ever said:
@avenging_x_bolt said:

@captainmarvel4ever: That only proves my point. Green Arrow survived because DC

Put more effort into ensuring he survived. He wasn't selling well at all until Lemire came along. They didn't put a fraction of that effort into certain characters despite making promises to the contrary. To say that they should just give up on attempting to create new minority characters is just giving them an excuse to be lazy and uncreative as well as to destroy beloved characters.

So your saying by changing a character's race that destroys them?

No, but removing everything that made people like them fan favorites in the first place (personality, history, relationships etc) does.

I'm also not saying they should be lazy, I'm saying they have proved they can't succeed at making new diverse characters, and that changing old ones may be the correct way for DC to do diversity.

I understand what youre trying to say, and im saying its wrong. encouraging writers to give up on creating and promoting new characters (minority or otherwise) and just tack on the names of established fan favorites is encouraging laziness.

Besides, changing a character seems much harder, after all the fan back lash a creator has to work twice as hard on a character.

Well if they would actually put in a decent effort with the other characters than they wouldnt have to worry about this.

What does that have to do with race change?

How is that lazy? it could be said that just making a new character can also be lazy.

Its lazy because its just leeching off the popularity of an established character.

They have put a lot of effort into making new diverse characters, and it's not working for them.

Then they have to try harder. Its as simple as that. What have they done to promote these characters? Where was Static or Blue Beetle when Lego Batman 2 came out? Where is Cyborg's solo series? Why wasnt Static included in Injustice even though he was a heavily requested character? What you dont seem to understand is that it one thing to simply create a character, its another to create one and actually promote them.

@avenging_x_bolt said:

@captainmarvel4ever said:
@dernman said:

@captainmarvel4ever said:

@dernman: Vibe was a book with good writing, and his book didn't succeed. Batwing had good writing, and although it went on for a while, it still got canceled. If fans don't latch on to characters and support them, then they can never grow. If DC can't get fan support, then changing a character already supported by the fans can solve that problem.

Vibe was only an ok book. Batwing had other problems that didn't involve being a new or minority character. It's this type of thinking like yours that never allows DC/Marvel to go beyond the few characters they always use which is helping in the killing of the comic industry.

Never mind that outside big two companies are growing with new characters and are successful.

When did I say DC and Marvel should stop making new characters? I said that DC has clearly failed at making new diverse characters and changing old ones may be how they have to do diversity.

oh, i see. its not that they should stop making new characters, they should just stop making new DIVERSE characters......because thats sooooo much better

I don't think they should stop completely, but so far it hasn't worked out for them.

Because they havnt put in enough effort to promote said characters.

In the New 52 DC used the reboot to spearhead lots of new diverse characters, and none of them worked out.

Because most of them were either poorly written (Blue Beetle, Static, Mr. Terrific, Katana) or not promoted well enough .

If they change an established character's race, then that character will still be able to stick around.

Just without anything that made their fans give a crap about them in the first place.

anyway, im done. this conversation is just going in circles.

Avatar image for captainmarvel4ever
Posted By CaptainMarvel4Ever

@batwatch said:

@captainmarvel4ever said:

@petey_is_spidey: DC tried introducing several new diverse characters, and fans didn't latch on. Maybe changing race is just how DC has to do diversity. Besides it wasn't up to them, Wally is going to be black in the new Flash TV show, so the higher ups at WB made it happen.

Okay, I keep hearing it said that Wally had to be black in the comics because Wally would be black in the series. Is there an actual source for this where DC said, "Our hands were forced?" I really don't much care that they made Wally black, but I keep hearing this and it makes no sense to me because it seems to imply A. that Wally had to be black in the TV series for some reason and B. that DC has to walk in lockstep with the Television universe even though characters have often been represented in different ways across various mediums.

@captainmarvel4ever said:

@m3th: This is his first appearance, there's plenty of time for him to grow into the Wally people love. Honestly the only character who's origin involves being good from the beginning is Captain Marvel's.

Good point. I wouldn't much like it if they've turned Wally into an angst filled rebel, but as you say, a lot of heroes start off a little rough and become heroic with time. This new Wally might become very similar to pre-52 Wally in a year or so.

Not that I'm for the changes. I'm against the reboot as a whole.

@dernman said:

@captainmarvel4ever said:

@avenging_x_bolt: If people did care they would support the series. Vibe's book was great, well written, good art, and it was promoted well. Even if some of the books weren't great, if people cared, they would support them anyways. Look at Green Arrow, his book sucked but people continued to buy it, why? because he's an established character. It's clear DC's new diverse characters aren't taking off, so changing old ones could be the only way.

People are not going to care for something that is new if it's poorly written.

Vibe's book wasn't that great. It was only ok. Green Arrow was in danger of getting canceled (many green Arow fans actually agreeing with it0 until it became great when they changed the writing art team. That is with him being an established character and having a fan base.

What's clear you're grasping as straws to defend a bad idea.

I think perhaps the bigger reason Vibe's book failed was that he came out of nowhere. Most successful series launches are based off of preexisting popular story arcs where the character or team builds some popularity. Look at how Reign of the Supermen lauched Superboy and Steel or how Knightfall launched Azrael and also gave Catwoman, Robin and Nightwing a little more lift to get off the ground. Where did Vibe come from? He wasn't in demand. Did he even have a single appearance in the last decade leading up to his own series?

There is no official source, but I'm pretty sure that's why. DC knows that fans loved Wally as a ginger, so I doubt they would willingly change him. Besides, in both Marvel and DC, we've seen that TV shows and movies have a huge influence over the comics.

The reboot was necessary, DC (and the comics industry) was headed for an all time low. The reboot gave new vitality to DC, and offered new readers the chance to jump on.

Vibe had exposure from Justice League of America, the #1 selling comic of 2013, and his first issue was written by Geoff Johns, all to hype him up. Yes, he appeared in Brightest Day. Marvel has made series about new diverse characters out of nowhere and they're doing great. If DC can't sell a character, who has proper exposure and a great series, that clearly shows they cannot succeed with new diverse characters.

(Also, I know this doesn't relate to anything you addressed to me, but in another comment I saw that you thought Voodoo was a Milestone character, she's actually a WildStrom character)

Avatar image for captainmarvel4ever
Posted By CaptainMarvel4Ever

@captainmarvel4ever said:
@avenging_x_bolt said:

@captainmarvel4ever: That only proves my point. Green Arrow survived because DC

Put more effort into ensuring he survived. He wasn't selling well at all until Lemire came along. They didn't put a fraction of that effort into certain characters despite making promises to the contrary. To say that they should just give up on attempting to create new minority characters is just giving them an excuse to be lazy and uncreative as well as to destroy beloved characters.

So your saying by changing a character's race that destroys them?

No, but removing everything that made people like them fan favorites in the first place (personality, history, relationships etc) does.

I'm also not saying they should be lazy, I'm saying they have proved they can't succeed at making new diverse characters, and that changing old ones may be the correct way for DC to do diversity.

I understand what youre trying to say, and im saying its wrong. encouraging writers to give up on creating and promoting new characters (minority or otherwise) and just tack on the names of established fan favorites is encouraging laziness.

Besides, changing a character seems much harder, after all the fan back lash a creator has to work twice as hard on a character.

Well if they would actually put in a decent effort with the other characters than they wouldnt have to worry about this.

What does that have to do with race change?

How is that lazy? it could be said that just making a new character can also be lazy.

They have put a lot of effort into making new diverse characters, and it's not working for them.

@captainmarvel4ever said:
@dernman said:

@captainmarvel4ever said:

@dernman: Vibe was a book with good writing, and his book didn't succeed. Batwing had good writing, and although it went on for a while, it still got canceled. If fans don't latch on to characters and support them, then they can never grow. If DC can't get fan support, then changing a character already supported by the fans can solve that problem.

Vibe was only an ok book. Batwing had other problems that didn't involve being a new or minority character. It's this type of thinking like yours that never allows DC/Marvel to go beyond the few characters they always use which is helping in the killing of the comic industry.

Never mind that outside big two companies are growing with new characters and are successful.

When did I say DC and Marvel should stop making new characters? I said that DC has clearly failed at making new diverse characters and changing old ones may be how they have to do diversity.

oh, i see. its not that they should stop making new characters, they should just stop making new DIVERSE characters......because thats sooooo much better

I don't think they should stop completely, but so far it hasn't worked out for them. In the New 52 DC used the reboot to spearhead lots of new diverse characters, and none of them worked out. If they change an established character's race, then that character will still be able to stick around.

Avatar image for kidchipotle
Posted By kidchipotle

I stopped loving this article once you said NuWally was an okay thing to do. Which pains me because you're one of my favorite staff members / users on this site. But hey, who am I, right?

Eh, just my opinion. I'll keep raging over it and cursing Didio till kingdom come while some people actually somehow enjoy this "Wally."

But I will say that Miles and Kamala have become two of my favorite new comers in comics. They just have awesome series and are just … well, awesome.

Avatar image for avenging_x_bolt
Posted By Avenging-X-Bolt

@dernman said:

@captainmarvel4ever said:

@dernman: Vibe was a book with good writing, and his book didn't succeed. Batwing had good writing, and although it went on for a while, it still got canceled. If fans don't latch on to characters and support them, then they can never grow. If DC can't get fan support, then changing a character already supported by the fans can solve that problem.

Vibe was only an ok book. Batwing had other problems that didn't involve being a new or minority character. It's this type of thinking like yours that never allows DC/Marvel to go beyond the few characters they always use which is helping in the killing of the comic industry.

Never mind that outside big two companies are growing with new characters and are successful.

When did I say DC and Marvel should stop making new characters? I said that DC has clearly failed at making new diverse characters and changing old ones may be how they have to do diversity.

oh, i see. its not that they should stop making new characters, they should just stop making new DIVERSE characters......because thats sooooo much better

Avatar image for avenging_x_bolt
Posted By Avenging-X-Bolt

@avenging_x_bolt said:

@captainmarvel4ever: That only proves my point. Green Arrow survived because DC

Put more effort into ensuring he survived. He wasn't selling well at all until Lemire came along. They didn't put a fraction of that effort into certain characters despite making promises to the contrary. To say that they should just give up on attempting to create new minority characters is just giving them an excuse to be lazy and uncreative as well as to destroy beloved characters.

So your saying by changing a character's race that destroys them?

No, but removing everything that made people like them fan favorites in the first place (personality, history, relationships etc) does.

I'm also not saying they should be lazy, I'm saying they have proved they can't succeed at making new diverse characters, and that changing old ones may be the correct way for DC to do diversity.

I understand what youre trying to say, and im saying its wrong. encouraging writers to give up on creating and promoting new characters (minority or otherwise) and just tack on the names of established fan favorites is encouraging laziness.

Besides, changing a character seems much harder, after all the fan back lash a creator has to work twice as hard on a character.

Well if they would actually put in a decent effort with the other characters than they wouldnt have to worry about this.

Avatar image for midnightdetectives
Posted By Midnightdetectives

This is one of the best comic editorials ever. Well written.

Avatar image for captainmarvel4ever
Edited By CaptainMarvel4Ever
@dernman said:

@captainmarvel4ever said:

@dernman: Vibe was a book with good writing, and his book didn't succeed. Batwing had good writing, and although it went on for a while, it still got canceled. If fans don't latch on to characters and support them, then they can never grow. If DC can't get fan support, then changing a character already supported by the fans can solve that problem.

Vibe was only an ok book. Batwing had other problems that didn't involve being a new or minority character. It's this type of thinking like yours that never allows DC/Marvel to go beyond the few characters they always use which is helping in the killing of the comic industry.

Never mind that outside big two companies are growing with new characters and are successful.

When did I say DC and Marvel should stop making new characters? I said that DC has clearly failed at making new diverse characters and changing old ones may be how they have to do diversity.

Avatar image for captainmarvel4ever
Posted By CaptainMarvel4Ever

@captainmarvel4ever: That only proves my point. Green Arrow survived because DC

Put more effort into ensuring he survived. He wasn't selling well at all until Lemire came along. They didn't put a fraction of that effort into certain characters despite making promises to the contrary. To say that they should just give up on attempting to create new minority characters is just giving them an excuse to be lazy and uncreative as well as to destroy beloved characters.

So your saying by changing a character's race that destroys them? I'm also not saying they should be lazy, I'm saying they have proved they can't succeed at making new diverse characters, and that changing old ones may be the correct way for DC to do diversity. Besides, changing a character seems much harder, after all the fan back lash a creator has to work twice as hard on a character.

Avatar image for voloergomalus
Posted By VoloErgoMalus

If a character is to be introduced purely to promote diversity, it may be a good idea to do so in a team title, then branch off later if he/she is a success. That way, nothing's getting cancelled just because the character didn't work out.

Avatar image for joygirl
Posted By Joygirl

@kivatt: Funny part is that, at least with female characters, they generally don't hurt sales at all. They just leave them out because they feel like it.

Avatar image for kivatt
Posted By kivatt

@joygirl: Yeah you deserve the ability to, like how everyone deserves their due representation. But are you going out to actually buy those comics or games? You can complain about what you want all day long, but when it is actually delivered. How many people who did all of that complaining are actually going to follow through? Not a large percent, which is why people do not get the representation they want.

At the end of the day it is a company, and they are out to make money. If they see that this certain type of character is not going to profit them, no matter how good the book is, you aren't going to see more like that come out. So they're slacking for not putting these characters out there, but I can see where it's coming from. Why take a risk when there's no chance of a high reward. Overall we are the ones at fault, for the lack of support we actually give for these characters when their books actually drop. Which leads to cancellations.

Avatar image for joygirl
Edited By Joygirl

Ugh. Won't these discussions ever end? These and the "I want more female characters in video games." Being a female doesn't make you automatically want to read about a female character.

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

I'll keep complaining about whatever I like, thank you.

While being female doesn't automatically make you want to read about a female character, I think we all deserve the ability to.

Avatar image for twix_right_side
Posted By Twix_Right_Side

@batwatch said:

@twix_right_side:

Glad you liked my writing.

I did have a site called BatWatch where I kept up with all the Batman news and reviewed all Bat Family comics; it was a lot of fun, and I covered more Batman news than anyone else, but I stopped it after a year mostly because it took too much time; I spent the majority of my time away from work doing BatWatch, and it didn't get enough traffic to merit staying with it.

I did however decide I wanted to be a professional writer while doing BatWatch, and since I can't seem to stop thinking about politics, I thought I'd try my hand at being a political writer. So far, I've just been trying to learn as much about the issues as possible before I actively try to seek a job. I've been reading up on climate change recently which is not as interesting as you might expect. Anyway, I have no idea if you would be interesting on my political opinion, but if you follow me, I'll send a message to you if I ever get a new blog or a noteworthy writing job of any type.

Already following you. :)

I think I heard of Batwatch before. It's unfortunate that things just weren't working out. To be fair,I don't really like anything from the new 52,though (Batman included). XD

And yeah,I would be interested in your political opinion.

Avatar image for batwatch
Edited By BatWatch

@twix_right_side:

Glad you liked my writing.

I did have a site called BatWatch where I kept up with all the Batman news and reviewed all Bat Family comics; it was a lot of fun, and I covered more Batman news than anyone else, but I stopped it after a year mostly because it took too much time; I spent the majority of my time away from work doing BatWatch, and it didn't get enough traffic to merit staying with it.

I did however decide I wanted to be a professional writer while doing BatWatch, and since I can't seem to stop thinking about politics, I thought I'd try my hand at being a political writer. So far, I've just been trying to learn as much about the issues as possible before I actively try to seek a job. I've been reading up on climate change recently which is not as interesting as you might expect. Anyway, I have no idea if you would be interesting on my political opinion, but if you follow me, I'll send a message to you if I ever get a new blog or a noteworthy writing job of any type.

Avatar image for twix_right_side
Edited By Twix_Right_Side

@batwatch said:

@twix_right_side said:

@batwatch I just have to ask,what do you think the consensus of these comments are? And what have you taken from them? Did theyt disappoint you (in general)?

Good questions.

Let's take the easy one first. No, they did not disappoint me. There are communities online who have a much more unhelpful view on these sorts of issues than does ComicVine. In my own view, more than half of the comments here are perfectly reasonable, and even those comments that have some things with which I disagree have some good points as well. Few people seem to be overly hostile which is probably the most important thing when it comes to these sorts of issues.

As far as the consensus view, there are definitely some things ComicVine can agree upon. First and foremost, I didn't see a single comment that was against the idea of more diversity in comics. (excepting a few that wanted more diversity in general but had a few reservations on specific kinds of diversity and these comments were few and far between) However, ComicVine was pretty divided past the point of wanting more diversity.

I'd say the biggest divides are regarding. A. How important is diversity? and B. How do we go about creating more diversity? In the first camp, some people seem to think that diversity is extremely important and must be included in comics as quickly as possible in order to give all people heroic representations and improve story telling by making comics closer fit reality. Others think that comics do need more diversity, but it's not a critical issue. People of all classifications can enjoy, relate and aspire to white, heterosexual, male characters like Batman and Spider-man because it's not their classifications that are important in the first place. On this point, I'd say ComicVine leans fairly strongly towards the "Diversity Now!" side of the argument. As far as how to introduce more diverse characters, some people think comic companies should actively try to create characters as diverse as possible through whatever means necessary to make them popular whether that be hyping them through media blasts, changing the classification of preexisting characters or launching new titles with relative unknown minority characters just to get them attention. The other side wants a more subtle approach to story telling where new diverse characters are created and introduced slowly, naturally gain a fan base through exposure and finally get their own starring role. On this issue, I'd say ComicVine has a moderate preference for introducing and using more diverse characters slowly rather than trying to create a character just to meet a quota.

Also of interest, there does seem to be a stronger desire among ComicVine racial minorities for a more diverse comic book universe. However, these divides are not as strong as you might suspect especially among racial minorities. Though I saw some racial minority people saying they desperately wanted more representation, I also saw many saying it was not that important and that they hated when comics tried to transparently shoehorn diversity into comics.At the same time, many of the people fiercely demanding more minority representation were white.

Regarding Wally West, I didn't see anybody say they dislike the new Wally West just because he was black. Many people pointed towards his altered personality, but most just objected to a change in a significant change in a popular character and the lazy way DC decided to go about introducing diversity.

As far as what I took from all this, I don't know that I had any big revelations, but I did enjoy seeing the different perspectives. There is something behind all of this that deeply disturbs me, but I find it difficult to parse it out in words. Obviously, there were some who seemed to be truly intolerant of people with different views, and that's an obvious problem, but it's those contentious on the other side that leave me with a kind of vague apprehension.

I don't have any problem with someone who wants more diversity in comics and believes that it's important for minority people to have role models. I don't have a problem with people who think comic companies should make this a priority and invest resources into it, but there are some people who seem a little antagonistic towards white culture, and that makes me nervous. It's that whole, "Check your privilege," idea that's been making the rounds recently; it's a very dangerous thing in my book. Saying, "Check your privilege," is just a fancy way of saying, "Shut up white man," and it's just as demeaning as telling any minority that they should feel bad and be quite because of their race. With a few people, I felt some of that current in the mix. For instance, one person wanted to know the race of another person because a white person couldn't understand a black person's need for representation. Are we really going back to that way of thinking? You can't understand this issue because of your race? You're just saying that because of your race? It's a bad deal.

Anyway, I'm getting tired and my eyes are crossing, so hopefully I'm making some sense. Just in case I'm not, let me put it like this. I'm fine with anyone sharing their views and wanting greater representation, but I'm not fine with anybody trying to make anybody else feel guilty for who they are. If it's wrong to make someone feel bad for being black, it's wrong for making someone feel bad because they are white. If it's wrong to make someone feel bad for embracing homosexuality, it's wrong to make someone feel bad for disagreeing with homosexuality. If we really want to live in a tolerant society, we have to be respectful of everyone as long as they are being peaceful. Otherwise, we are just changing one whipping boy for another.

Thanks for the answer,Batwatch!

I'm pleased to see the consensus and the views of people,but at the same time,I strongly dislike when some people try to talk down on others. Unfortunately,there are some people on this website (and in this world around us) who are too much like that. I agree with everything you said. In fact,I don't think I can say it any better.

+1 follow

By the way,do you have some sort of website or blog?

@kasino said:

@transformers1024 said:

There is still NO reason why they had to completely change a character that we have all been a fan of for many years. I hope they reboot soon so we can get a Wally that we are all a bit more familiar with.

what if his personality isn't changed isn't he still familiar?

To be fair,I preferred if they didn't change him in any way. And his personality kinda makes matters worse.