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Off My Mind: Do You Want Superheroes to Age?

Should they be forever young?

Time in comic books doesn't work the same way it does in real life. Characters rarely show any signs of aging and usually remain the same age throughout all their stories. Would we want to seem them age? Some characters have aged a bit since their first appearance. Does this keep the character from getting stale or are we running the risk of having our characters get too old for future generations?

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We have seen alternate tales where heroes get old. Usually things don't go very well. Characters either die or the world has gone to hell. Does that say something right there? Is the future and aging a bad sign for superheroes?
 == TEASER ==
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I've mentioned before how I started reading/collecting comics in 1984. Back then, Spider-Man was in his mid-20s (he still is, I guess). Now if he had aged normally from then, he'd be close to 50. Obviously that would limit future stories with Spidey. On the other hand, it's not like he's frozen in time. When he first appeared in 1962, he was still in high school. We have seen him graduate and even go through college. Perhaps Spider-Man aged too much. We saw him get married and even have a kid (well, he didn't have it, Mary Jane did). Apparently this made it hard for readers to relate to him? Weird since I'm married and have a kid. 
 
We have seen other characters show signs of aging. Dick Grayson started out as a kid and now he's in his mid-20s. There is no fixed rate at how time passes in comics. There's no formula saying one issue equals one day for characters. I believe in Green Arrow #1 it was mentioned that something like six months had passed since Star City was destroyed and brought back when it hasn't even been six months in 'our' time.
 
If characters start showing signs of aging, that limits their longevity. Batman has been around for over 70 years. While it's good for character development to see him and others age, don't we want to be able to enjoy them for as long as we can? Don't we want our children to be able to enjoy them as well? We've seen an "older" Bruce in The Dark Knight Returns as well as Batman Beyond but it's not the same. Where should the line be drawn? How much should writers and publishers allow characters to age? You can't just age some characters, you have to age the entire comic universe. Should growing older be one battle that superheroes can win?

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Fredgerd

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Edited By Fredgerd

 Yes PLEASE! I've always generally preferred the American comic genre over manga, but the screwy time lines have always bothered me, and that is the one thing I think most manga has over superhero comics.
 
The only solution I've seen work is when heroes are replaced by younger characters as has been done with the flash and green lantern. That would work a lot better if the older characters aged once replaced which isn't always consistent. What would be ideal, however, is if they simply kept  the characters within there era context and built on the events of their lives, or in a few cases, revised the story entirely for comics like the old "slap a jap" superman comics, which would be considered offensive to most readers today. No one wants to see the end of Bruce Waynes adventures but that doesn't mean he has to be modern. People still love reading the stories of characters like King Arther and new stories are added to that mythos all the time.

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HexThis

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Edited By HexThis

Absolutely not. 
 
I like that these characters are re-tooled to represent each and every generation in a new way. They have such complexities, so many layers that they are beginning to become some of the most developed and multi-dimensional characters of any sort of franchise. 
 
It's the strength of comics that they are ever-lasting. It would be selfish for us to want comic book characters to age, what if someone made that decision in the 30's? Batman and Superman would be largely revoked. New characters can be worked in with the old and we can just continue to expand universes.  

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d0npierre

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Edited By d0npierre

Who wants to live forever?
 
- We do, but they can...

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Psykhophear

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Edited By Psykhophear

I do believe that fictional characters should age regardless if they're from comics, cartoons or whatever because nothing lasts forever. It's nice to see your favorite comic book characters still doing his/ her thing but in the long run, you kinda have the urge to say, "how much longer can this person live?" 
 
I remember somebody telling me that, "cartoons can never die," which I believe that it also applies to comics as well, so the best thing that writers should do is to introduce new characters and dispose of the old ones in a reasonable manner. DC and Marvel do a great job of doing this with the death of Captain America, Batman, the second Robin, Spider-Man's girlfriend Gwen Stacy and so on. It's a shocker when you first heard about it but it later makes sense and you accept it. 
 
The one thing that I can't accept is Archie Comics. Since day one, Riverdale has never never ever changed one bit. Archie is still a pervert, the gang is still going to high school, Mr. Weatherbee is still alive and the list goes on and on. I loved Archie Comics back in the day but I've stopped reading it years ago because nothing has changed over the years. Riverdale is still what it is since seventy years ago and the writers are recycling the same gags and twists over and over again. It becomes boring, predictable and lame. What they need to do is to bring the comics to a new level. Make the gang go to college, make Archie married, close down Pop Tate's, introduce new characters, get rid some of the old ones, etc. The closest "new level" thing they've ever done is Archie getting married in the "Will You Marry Me" issues but even then, they still can't even get it right since it's only a What If? situation and not an actual event. Shows how much of a pussy the writers are. I even wrote a whole blog about it just to show you how pissed I am even to this day. 
 
In conclusion, I believe fictional characters should either die of old age or move to a new level.

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chris thompson

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Edited By chris thompson

Yes.

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magicpower

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Edited By magicpower
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Timm

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Edited By Timm
@Icemizer said:
" If characters have to age then it must be a company wide mandate that all characters age in that universe at the same rate.  This would avoid the Franklin Richards problem. He is still a pre-teen, but his friends in Power Pack are already well into their teen years."
This brings up another issue with age, Marvel and DC have been inventing new characters when they could so easily play on the old ones. back in my day, when a new character was born it was on the heels of a retiring or dead old character. a younger character was introduced or even a character with similar abilities. then maybe a year or two later, they would take the mantle. sometimes they would test the waters, but eventually the old great would be replaced. I feel like marvel missed a great opportunity with Franklin Richards. He would be at the popular age about now. Prime candidate for Young Avengers or even a viable future replacement for Xavier in X-men if they kept development on the mutation of his astral projection ability and the storyline where mastermold comes back to eliminate "The Twelve" future leaders of mutantkind. 
 
but no. 
instead they did Necrosha.
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Magian

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Edited By Magian
@Comiclove5 said:
"@ComicMan24 said:

"Aging in comics is weird. For example almost all of Batman's sidekicks have grown while Batman has stayed virtually the same. Aging only applies to sidekicks and that stops when they become adults. Another example is Franklin Richards, he was born in the sixties and he is still 10 years old I think. Heroes should age, that's why we have legacies. "

Batman is in his early to mid-40's And I think Franklin is at least 15. "

He certainly looks younger than mid-40s.
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Timm

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Edited By Timm
@ComicMan24 said:
" @Comiclove5 said:
"@ComicMan24 said:

"Aging in comics is weird. For example almost all of Batman's sidekicks have grown while Batman has stayed virtually the same. Aging only applies to sidekicks and that stops when they become adults. Another example is Franklin Richards, he was born in the sixties and he is still 10 years old I think. Heroes should age, that's why we have legacies. "

Batman is in his early to mid-40's And I think Franklin is at least 15. "
He certainly looks younger than mid-40s. "
Franklin is certainly younger than 15.  he just had a birthday party in some issue or another. i think it was while they were warming up the Reed and the order of Reed's across the multiverse story. he's pretty close to 10 if not 10.
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Magian

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Edited By Magian
@Timm:
I believe so too.
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Clifftothemax

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Edited By Clifftothemax

If they can do it right (Batman Beyond as an example) then by all means, yes.

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ZaberCat

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Edited By ZaberCat

I rather leave characters dont age alone is easily job for the comic writers, editors, and editors. If readers wanted to age characters, look at 75 anniversary of X-Men would have looked the X-Men as Jean Grey, Cyclops, Beast, Archangel, and Iceman could turned  75 years old and Professor X would have died before that time.

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ReverseNegative

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Edited By ReverseNegative

It depends. If the whole story is actually SAID to be based off of the happenings of a certain time (Watchmen "1985") then it should age accordingly. But some stuff like Batman kinda bugs me. I mean, he doesn't age, but the advancements in technology  society continue to age anyways. It's like he's immortal or something. Also, I find it kinda weird that Wolverine doesn't age. I mean, I know he can't die and all because of his healing factor and stuff, but why does he age to a certain point and just stop?

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Shadowdoggy

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Edited By Shadowdoggy

it's hard to make characters age in the mainstream continuity, unless it is only to a limited degree 
because once you do, they sort of have to stay that age 
it's a hard think to retconn
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Calvin

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Edited By Calvin
@G-Man: If character got old and replaced there were no need to retcons. I think it would be great for older readers too. I mean we all love Spidey but we can't have him strugling with the same issues for ever. He could grow old deal with different issues like parenthood to keep veterans fans, while other Superhero was introduced to once again in hightschool so that new readers could have a different Spidey to grow up with.
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Knight22179

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Edited By Knight22179

I definately think heroes should age. ALL heroes, not just a certain few (i.e. The Punisher), but all. While it's nice I got to experience Superman since I was not born in 1938, that is what having KIDS are for. 
 
Superheroes children should be taking up the mantle of their parents. I'd LOVE to see Superman Jr. don the cape, Batman jr. ect. 
 
Why? It's realistic. We all age, Superheroes should age too, they should not be immune to it and be immortal. 
 
I'm still young and already I'm sick and tired of the ageless heroes. I want a new generation to come along. DC wants to continue writing about the same old characters? That's what ALTERNATE realities are for. 
 
Unfortunately, we never will see this. Connor Kent aka Superboy will always either remain Superboy or take on another superhero identity and then stop aging. 
 
I say let heroes age, let them have kids and then let them take up the mantle. It creates fresh new stories and then we can all fall in love with our favorite heroes all over again.

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spiderpigbart

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Edited By spiderpigbart

I think they should, just slower. Spider-Man has aged about ten years.

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VanTesla

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Edited By VanTesla

Yes let them age respectfully  and have them  train the next generation. 
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AndrewG

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Edited By AndrewG

Personally, I say no. As a fan I sort of do enjoy when you see people like Dick Grayson go from young Robin to his own man with Nightwing and eventually take up the mantle of his 'father' as Batman but in reality I think it does more harm than good. These characters thrived long before I became a fan and ideally should continue to do so long after we're all gone. It's great as an alternative story but at the end of the day the characters should be returned to their toy box in the same condition they were in when borrowed to allow for a new generation to enjoy 
 
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1429812861/gathering-an-indie-comic-book-anthology    
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Comicjew

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Edited By Comicjew

If comic characters aged like real people, Batman would be a fossil, Daredevil would look like someone's grandpa and "Aunt" May would be dead.
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Shadow_Thief

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Edited By Shadow_Thief

I'm torn on this one. On one hand, it makes sense for characters to age: it allows us to follow their maturation, and helps us relate to them. We age, after all; we all have to deal with the fact that the world keeps spinning, and we spin with it. We all eventually have to deal with the fact that there comes a day when we can no longer pull an all-nighter with WoW and Red Bull and still function the next day. We go from being kids ourselves to having kids of our own, and struggle to help them deal with a world that isn't necessarily the one we grew up in. Having characters mirror this allows them to remain relevant.
On the other hand, aging changes a character, in ways both subtle and not. The teenage Spidey trying to balance school, work, and blossoming romance isn't going to read quite the same way as the mature, married Spidey who joined the Avengers. Is he still Spidey? Of course! However, he's going to be dealing with different issues, and this is going to affect who relates to him. As much as we might like having a more mature character that we can continue to relate to, we also want our kids to have a character they can relate to, one who is still dealing with situations that make sense to a younger audience, that can be tackled with energy and idealism.
Fortunately, discussion of this issue is, at it's core, merely academic. It's comic books! There's plenty of alternate realities, time-alteration, and almost-plausible pseudo-science to ensure that a character can be whatever age he/she needs to be to suit the story. Have them reborn, de-aged, their mind transferred into a younger clone, whatever! A certain suspension of disbelief is required to truly enjoy comics, and perhaps, if our beloved characters can last for decades without definitively aging, it means that we can recapture the energy and enthusiasm of our youth at times, too. ;)

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greenlantern26

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Edited By greenlantern26

i would like to see a JLA story in which its 20 years in the future and every one is the age their saposed to be. nothing fancy just a regular plot with batman saying im too old for this sh#t. 
while superman is looking into the sunset and saying where did our youth go. and booster gold looks at him and says. what are you... like 40??  :/ 
          a normal JLA with new member coming into there own and the big players just reflecting 
on past battles and joys. and finely saying hmmm. well lets get back to work. and that be the end of it. 
P.s. batman would never say that but it would be a great ending to a awesome one shot.

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GraphicCasualFreak

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Depends on the Character.  I don't mind Batman aging, but Superman; I don't think so.  I really wish Supergirl would age, a little at least.  I'm getting tired of everyone still feeling the need to treat her like a third tier kiddie character. She is awesome.

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wrlord

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Seems you never heard of Earth 1 and Earth 2. It was an elegant solution to the problem, but was obliterated in the COIE, because some people running comics were stupid.

And... why would a 50 year old Spiderman be limited in what he could do? That said, your math is wrong. He's be 70 today.

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wrlord

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Edited By wrlord
@wrlord said:

Seems you never heard of Earth 1 and Earth 2. It was an elegant solution to the problem, but was obliterated in the COIE, because some people running comics were stupid.

And... why would a 50 year old Spiderman be limited in what he could do? That said, your math is wrong. He'd be 70 today.

Frankly, the idea of an aging hero would give writers all new opportunities to explore things they haven't til now. Never heard of Dominic Fortune?

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Zarius

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Edited By Zarius
@wrlord said:

Seems you never heard of Earth 1 and Earth 2. It was an elegant solution to the problem, but was obliterated in the COIE

Actually, the multiverse was brought back in Infinite Crisis back in 2005, and the Convergence event recently undid COIE. Multiversity also establishes that there exists a multi-multiverse.

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AmazingSpiderman15

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i think they should age,

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Jimishim12

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No, there timeless figures of ideals and moral messages condensed into larger than life symbols of heroic imperatives. Spidey along with Bat's, Cap, Supes and Shellhead are like cartoon characters, they are never gonna go out of style.

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kcomicfan

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I don't mind if characters age. but only if it is done slowly like what they are doing with spider-man. Peter is in his physical prime, and it would be a shame if Marvel wasted this by ageing peter up to his 40's.

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magnetic_eye

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Edited By magnetic_eye

@kcomicfan said:

I don't mind if characters age. but only if it is done slowly like what they are doing with spider-man. Peter is in his physical prime, and it would be a shame if Marvel wasted this by ageing peter up to his 40's.

I agree. I think Spider-Man stories with Peter in his 40's would be better done as a "What If" graphic novel or an alternate universe story arc.

I started reading Spider-Man as a kid in 74 and he was at that point in time a mature 28 year old. He always had his humorous sarcastic wit, but I'm really not at all keen on the changes post OMD.

Peter has regressed into a younger immature character and I also can't get into Dan Slott's writing style.

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magnetic_eye

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Edited By magnetic_eye

No, there timeless figures of ideals and moral messages condensed into larger than life symbols of heroic imperatives. Spidey along with Bat's, Cap, Supes and Shellhead are like cartoon characters, they are never gonna go out of style.

So you're against the slow aging of a character, but not the adolescent rejuvenation of a character like Spider-Man from a mature 28 year old to a regressive immature buffoon.

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wrlord

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@zarius: A multiverse was brought back, but not the characters from Earth 1 and Earth 2. Gone still are the Clark Kent who worked at WGBS and the Alan Scott who fought in WWII and liked women.

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Zarius

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@wrlord said:

@zarius: A multiverse was brought back, but not the characters from Earth 1 and Earth 2. Gone still are the Clark Kent who worked at WGBS and the Alan Scott who fought in WWII and liked women.

Again, have you been reading Convergence? They undid Crisis.

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wrlord

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@zarius: I saw that they brought back the Teen Titans from the Wolman Perez run... are you telling me stuff like that is here to stay?

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kcomicfan

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@kcomicfan said:

I don't mind if characters age. but only if it is done slowly like what they are doing with spider-man. Peter is in his physical prime, and it would be a shame if Marvel wasted this by ageing peter up to his 40's.

I agree. I think Spider-Man stories with Peter in his 40's would be better done as a "What If" graphic novel or an alternate universe story arc.

I started reading Spider-Man as a kid in 74 and he was at that point in time a mature 28 year old. He always had his humorous sarcastic wit, but I'm really not at all keen on the changes post OMD.

Peter has regressed into a younger immature character and I also can't get into Dan Slott's writing style.

Can you please post scans of Peter acting " immature" or like An " ineffective buffoon". And I will post scans of peter as the exact opposite.

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Zarius

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Edited By Zarius

Peter being regressed is in itself nothing new. It was happening a bit after the Clone Saga also when Peter and MJ went back to college. Of course, things were slightly more upbeat in that period between the close of the saga and the much derided Mackie relaunch, after which they just made Peter a young "loser". JMS'' run bounced him back up, where, while more world-weary, he steadied himself and coped with changes in his whole mythology and how he interacted with his wife, Aunt, and his fellow heroes, yet still trying to make something of himself in terms of ambition.

I think there's always going to be a period with new writers where they will make Peter take a step back a bit just so they can indulge in the "classic" formula, and then advance him a bit more when they feel the time is right to impart their own wisdom on the characters. That's the way it ought to go.

@wrlord said:

@zarius: I saw that they brought back the Teen Titans from the Wolman Perez run... are you telling me stuff like that is here to stay?

The option to use them exists again is the rationale I keep hearing from the officials that call the shots.

They're already going to make use of pre-flashpoint Lois and Clark in an ongoing this fall as well, making them a vital component of the New 52/DC You landscape

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Jimishim12

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Edited By Jimishim12

@magnetic_eye said:
@jimishim12 said:

No, there timeless figures of ideals and moral messages condensed into larger than life symbols of heroic imperatives. Spidey along with Bat's, Cap, Supes and Shellhead are like cartoon characters, they are never gonna go out of style.

So you're against the slow aging of a character, but not the adolescent rejuvenation of a character like Spider-Man from a mature 28 year old to a regressive immature buffoon.

Quite the contrary, Spidey has never been more emotionally competant and progressive in his entire run thanks to Slott and Bendis(his uncouth rambunctious sense of humor aside but then again Spidey is always gonna be one Marvel's most childish characters). I'd argue he was less mature and a more whipping boy(May and Mary's Janes suck up slave) before the retcon of his marriage, And I'm talking about his role from those times when compared to his colleagues like Hawkeye and Kaine.

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TheHeaven_Guardian10

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All depends on the circumstances for me.

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magnetic_eye

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@magnetic_eye said:
@kcomicfan said:

I don't mind if characters age. but only if it is done slowly like what they are doing with spider-man. Peter is in his physical prime, and it would be a shame if Marvel wasted this by ageing peter up to his 40's.

I agree. I think Spider-Man stories with Peter in his 40's would be better done as a "What If" graphic novel or an alternate universe story arc.

I started reading Spider-Man as a kid in 74 and he was at that point in time a mature 28 year old. He always had his humorous sarcastic wit, but I'm really not at all keen on the changes post OMD.

Peter has regressed into a younger immature character and I also can't get into Dan Slott's writing style.

Can you please post scans of Peter acting " immature" or like An " ineffective buffoon". And I will post scans of peter as the exact opposite.

No I won't be doing your homework for you. You know exactly what I mean. Over and over and over again throughout Dan Slott’s run, Peter Parker is marginalized in his own title.

Just a small list below. I'm sure other posters could add more.

  • Silk, although locked away for most of her life, is Peter’s equal or a better when it comes to the superhero business.
  • SpOck shooting an unarmed man in the face, while his peers and allies stood around drooling on themselves like idiots? (Because, you know, Spider-man always fought crime with guns and a lust for criminal execution like the Punisher, except for the 50 years of stories where didn't, and there's nothing weird about that).
  • The time Peter had to be saved by Silk and nursed back to health by Anna Maria.
  • Peter running around in his web-diaper, in a literal on-panel representation of the painfully regressed man-child he's become.
  • Anna Maria Marconi is the voice of reason, a source of strength, and an anchor that keeps Peter grounded.
  • Sajani pushes CEO-Parker around like he’s some low-level employee who is on thin ice for constantly screwing up.
  • Black Cat is a megalomaniac super-villain who can orchestrate a Spider-Man beat-down and near-unmasking for a national television audience.
  • In most of Spider-Verse, Peter lacked any real leadership skills only to be upstaged by Silk or SpOck. He was hardly the hero in his own book. He had to depend on so many others to secure victory.
  • During Spider-Verse he became a Where's Waldo character in his own book and SpOck delivers the all inspiring speech to alternate universe Uncle Ben.
  • “Anna’s covering my butt…literally. She thought of everything. Again,” Peter says to himself after the supporting cast member saves him from Ghost. Not only is Ms. Marconi saintly and wise, but she has the inner strength to save the suddenly-hapless Spider-Man from his own incompetence — during battle.
  • How about this gag-inducing panel?

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The graphic novel Family Business, Conway's point one issues and RYV have been my only recent Spidey related purchases. I haven't purchased anything Slott has written since ASM #700. The comic book shop I frequent has a lounge area and I read SSM and ASM there. I also borrowed my cousin's set of SSM and ASM books at one stage and read them again.

Even if I did have those books to scan, I still wouldn't have the time as I have a very busy work schedule and I value my family time with my kids and my social life.

I own every single physical copy of ASM right up to ASM #700 as well the complete "Amazing Spider-Man" collection on DVD ROM. I already have all the proof in the world that Peter was once a better written character, by many different writers who actually understood the character. He used to be an effective and formidable crime fighter, an independent and resourceful super hero.

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magnetic_eye

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@magnetic_eye said:
@jimishim12 said:

No, there timeless figures of ideals and moral messages condensed into larger than life symbols of heroic imperatives. Spidey along with Bat's, Cap, Supes and Shellhead are like cartoon characters, they are never gonna go out of style.

So you're against the slow aging of a character, but not the adolescent rejuvenation of a character like Spider-Man from a mature 28 year old to a regressive immature buffoon.

Quite the contrary, Spidey has never been more emotionally competant and progressive in his entire run thanks to Slott and Bendis(his uncouth rambunctious sense of humor aside but then again Spidey is always gonna be one Marvel's most childish characters). I'd argue he was less mature and a more whipping boy(May and Mary's Janes suck up slave) before the retcon of his marriage, And I'm talking about his role from those times when compared to his colleagues like Hawkeye and Kaine.

LOL, Quite the contrary. Spidey has never been more emotionally incompetent and regressive thanks to Slott's deconstructive run.

Spidey was never one of Marvel's most childish characters. That's just your fantasy of wanting comic book "Amazing Spider-MAN" to be more like the kiddies "Ultimate Spider-Boy" cartoon.

Your argument about a less mature Spidey pre OMD is a laughable fallacy with no factual grounding. Stop exposing yourself as someone who hasn't read much Spider-Man at all.

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The_Waffle

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@kcomicfan said:
@magnetic_eye said:
@kcomicfan said:

I don't mind if characters age. but only if it is done slowly like what they are doing with spider-man. Peter is in his physical prime, and it would be a shame if Marvel wasted this by ageing peter up to his 40's.

I agree. I think Spider-Man stories with Peter in his 40's would be better done as a "What If" graphic novel or an alternate universe story arc.

I started reading Spider-Man as a kid in 74 and he was at that point in time a mature 28 year old. He always had his humorous sarcastic wit, but I'm really not at all keen on the changes post OMD.

Peter has regressed into a younger immature character and I also can't get into Dan Slott's writing style.

Can you please post scans of Peter acting " immature" or like An " ineffective buffoon". And I will post scans of peter as the exact opposite.

Wow, if you can't even see the problems that plague Slotts run for yourself, then there's no point even trying to show you, smh

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kcomicfan

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@kcomicfan said:
@magnetic_eye said:
@kcomicfan said:

I don't mind if characters age. but only if it is done slowly like what they are doing with spider-man. Peter is in his physical prime, and it would be a shame if Marvel wasted this by ageing peter up to his 40's.

I agree. I think Spider-Man stories with Peter in his 40's would be better done as a "What If" graphic novel or an alternate universe story arc.

I started reading Spider-Man as a kid in 74 and he was at that point in time a mature 28 year old. He always had his humorous sarcastic wit, but I'm really not at all keen on the changes post OMD.

Peter has regressed into a younger immature character and I also can't get into Dan Slott's writing style.

Can you please post scans of Peter acting " immature" or like An " ineffective buffoon". And I will post scans of peter as the exact opposite.

Wow, if you can't even see the problems that plague Slotts run for yourself, then there's no point even trying to show you, smh

What an Ignorant comment. I can see the problems, but i believe that they are not as bad as people make out. also it gives me an opportunity to post scans that shows Peter being mature.

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kcomicfan

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@kcomicfan said:
@magnetic_eye said:
@kcomicfan said:

I don't mind if characters age. but only if it is done slowly like what they are doing with spider-man. Peter is in his physical prime, and it would be a shame if Marvel wasted this by ageing peter up to his 40's.

I agree. I think Spider-Man stories with Peter in his 40's would be better done as a "What If" graphic novel or an alternate universe story arc.

I started reading Spider-Man as a kid in 74 and he was at that point in time a mature 28 year old. He always had his humorous sarcastic wit, but I'm really not at all keen on the changes post OMD.

Peter has regressed into a younger immature character and I also can't get into Dan Slott's writing style.

Can you please post scans of Peter acting " immature" or like An " ineffective buffoon". And I will post scans of peter as the exact opposite.

No I won't be doing your homework for you. You know exactly what I mean. Over and over and over again throughout Dan Slott’s run, Peter Parker is marginalized in his own title.

Just a small list below. I'm sure other posters could add more.

  • Silk, although locked away for most of her life, is Peter’s equal or a better when it comes to the superhero business.
  • SpOck shooting an unarmed man in the face, while his peers and allies stood around drooling on themselves like idiots? (Because, you know, Spider-man always fought crime with guns and a lust for criminal execution like the Punisher, except for the 50 years of stories where didn't, and there's nothing weird about that).
  • The time Peter had to be saved by Silk and nursed back to health by Anna Maria.
  • Peter running around in his web-diaper, in a literal on-panel representation of the painfully regressed man-child he's become.
  • Anna Maria Marconi is the voice of reason, a source of strength, and an anchor that keeps Peter grounded.
  • Sajani pushes CEO-Parker around like he’s some low-level employee who is on thin ice for constantly screwing up.
  • Black Cat is a megalomaniac super-villain who can orchestrate a Spider-Man beat-down and near-unmasking for a national television audience.
  • In most of Spider-Verse, Peter lacked any real leadership skills only to be upstaged by Silk or SpOck. He was hardly the hero in his own book. He had to depend on so many others to secure victory.
  • During Spider-Verse he became a Where's Waldo character in his own book and SpOck delivers the all inspiring speech to alternate universe Uncle Ben.
  • “Anna’s covering my butt…literally. She thought of everything. Again,” Peter says to himself after the supporting cast member saves him from Ghost. Not only is Ms. Marconi saintly and wise, but she has the inner strength to save the suddenly-hapless Spider-Man from his own incompetence — during battle.
  • How about this gag-inducing panel?
No Caption Provided

The graphic novel Family Business, Conway's point one issues and RYV have been my only recent Spidey related purchases. I haven't purchased anything Slott has written since ASM #700. The comic book shop I frequent has a lounge area and I read SSM and ASM there. I also borrowed my cousin's set of SSM and ASM books at one stage and read them again.

Even if I did have those books to scan, I still wouldn't have the time as I have a very busy work schedule and I value my family time with my kids and my social life.

I own every single physical copy of ASM right up to ASM #700 as well the complete "Amazing Spider-Man" collection on DVD ROM. I already have all the proof in the world that Peter was once a better written character, by many different writers who actually understood the character. He used to be an effective and formidable crime fighter, an independent and resourceful super hero.

You are not "doing my homework" , on comic vine debates are settled by posting comic book scans. If you post your opinion be prepared to be called on it.

All of your points are from the relaunch, which even I admit was horrible. There is a whole 7 years of comics that you have not covered. And in that 7 years, peter has had a lot of mature moments.

But some of your points are faulty:

"SpOck shooting an unarmed man in the face, while his peers and allies stood around drooling on themselves like idiots? (Because, you know, Spider-man always fought crime with guns and a lust for criminal execution like the Punisher, except for the 50 years of stories where didn't, and there's nothing weird about that)." we are talking about Peter Parker, not SpOck and peters superhero peers. this says nothing about PETERS immaturity or how he is a "buffoon". and even then the Avenger called peter to scan him, and when they could not find anything they put it down to the stress of letting Sliver Sable die. This is not me making excuses for the Avengers incompetence in this scene, I am just saying the avengers did not do anything because they found a reason.

"The time Peter had to be saved by Silk and nursed back to health by Anna Maria." It happens.

"Anna Maria Marconi is the voice of reason, a source of strength, and an anchor that keeps Peter grounded." Again, we are talking about peter not Anna Maria. And even then, the fact that peter has a voice of reason does not make him immature

I to have ways to read every single issue of spider-man up to #700. And Slott knows arguable more about Spidey then JMS who could not get Aunt May's maiden name right and did not know Eddie brock's first name.

Peter is still a formidable and resourceful hero. for example he made a sound proof suit to beat the hobgoblin, and he has out smarted Doc Ock multiple times, and at both times he saved the world.

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Monarch_Chronicle

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I'm of two minds, I personally can suspend my disbelief about batman still being early thirties with 4+ robins (2 of which are young adults) so I don't mind that. But I personally love coming of age stories and out of prime stories, I think there could be so much done with those to troupes for comics. It seems like only the popular teenage characters & unpopular adult characters will ever age tho.

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The_Waffle

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but i believe that they are not as bad as people make out.

Yeah, that's because it's even worse than people make out. lel :P

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The_Waffle

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@kcomicfan said:

You are not "doing my homework" , on comic vine debates are settled by posting comic book scans. If you post your opinion be prepared to be called on it.

All of your points are from the relaunch, which even I admit was horrible. There is a whole 7 years of comics that you have not covered. And in that 7 years, peter has had a lot of mature moments.

But some of your points are faulty:

"SpOck shooting an unarmed man in the face, while his peers and allies stood around drooling on themselves like idiots? (Because, you know, Spider-man always fought crime with guns and a lust for criminal execution like the Punisher, except for the 50 years of stories where didn't, and there's nothing weird about that)." we are talking about Peter Parker, not SpOck and peters superhero peers. this says nothing about PETERS immaturity or how he is a "buffoon". and even then the Avenger called peter to scan him, and when they could not find anything they put it down to the stress of letting Sliver Sable die. This is not me making excuses for the Avengers incompetence in this scene, I am just saying the avengers did not do anything because they found a reason.

"The time Peter had to be saved by Silk and nursed back to health by Anna Maria." It happens.

"Anna Maria Marconi is the voice of reason, a source of strength, and an anchor that keeps Peter grounded." Again, we are talking about peter not Anna Maria. And even then, the fact that peter has a voice of reason does not make him immature

I to have ways to read every single issue of spider-man up to #700. And Slott knows arguable more about Spidey then JMS who could not get Aunt May's maiden name right and did not know Eddie brock's first name.

Peter is still a formidable and resourceful hero. for example he made a sound proof suit to beat the hobgoblin, and he has out smarted Doc Ock multiple times, and at both times he saved the world.

Slott knows more about Spidey than JMS because he gets a couple of names right, really? that's the best you got? Stan Lee called Peter Parker, Peter Palmer in one of the earliest issues...

Slott could be more knowledgeable when it comes to Spider-Man than JMS, who knows? But does not make him the better writer. The fact you said JMS is less knowledgeable only makes me more impressed with him because he still understands the characters better than Slott ever will. It doesn't matter if Slott's the bigger Spider-Man nerd, though it would explain why his stories read like bad fan fiction :P

If Peter makes all these fantastic suits, that are clearly superior to the original suit why not wear them full time? Other wise they're just dumb gimmicks to draw in readers.

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Debates are settled through posting comic books scans, which themselves can be interpreted a million different ways to Sunday depending on the reader's own opinion of the subject matter. Again, a laughable rationale. I get the feeling kcomicfan just says this stuff to provoke a reaction rather than him actually beleiving any of it.

Oh, and JMS has the knowledge. I was on CBR yesterday and Slott took the time to chime in on the forums to verify that he was in attendance when JMS was mapping out his original version of OMD back in 2007. JMS was was pointing out exactly which moments in time to alter, and they were'nt just the marriage, they were things like the issues Stan wrote that dealt with Harry's drug issues.

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kcomicfan

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@kcomicfan said:

but i believe that they are not as bad as people make out.

Yeah, that's because it's even worse than people make out. lel :P

It is not.

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kcomicfan

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@the_waffle said:
@kcomicfan said:

You are not "doing my homework" , on comic vine debates are settled by posting comic book scans. If you post your opinion be prepared to be called on it.

All of your points are from the relaunch, which even I admit was horrible. There is a whole 7 years of comics that you have not covered. And in that 7 years, peter has had a lot of mature moments.

But some of your points are faulty:

"SpOck shooting an unarmed man in the face, while his peers and allies stood around drooling on themselves like idiots? (Because, you know, Spider-man always fought crime with guns and a lust for criminal execution like the Punisher, except for the 50 years of stories where didn't, and there's nothing weird about that)." we are talking about Peter Parker, not SpOck and peters superhero peers. this says nothing about PETERS immaturity or how he is a "buffoon". and even then the Avenger called peter to scan him, and when they could not find anything they put it down to the stress of letting Sliver Sable die. This is not me making excuses for the Avengers incompetence in this scene, I am just saying the avengers did not do anything because they found a reason.

"The time Peter had to be saved by Silk and nursed back to health by Anna Maria." It happens.

"Anna Maria Marconi is the voice of reason, a source of strength, and an anchor that keeps Peter grounded." Again, we are talking about peter not Anna Maria. And even then, the fact that peter has a voice of reason does not make him immature

I to have ways to read every single issue of spider-man up to #700. And Slott knows arguable more about Spidey then JMS who could not get Aunt May's maiden name right and did not know Eddie brock's first name.

Peter is still a formidable and resourceful hero. for example he made a sound proof suit to beat the hobgoblin, and he has out smarted Doc Ock multiple times, and at both times he saved the world.

Slott knows more about Spidey than JMS because he gets a couple of names right, really? that's the best you got? Stan Lee called Peter Parker, Peter Palmer in one of the earliest issues...

Slott could be more knowledgeable when it comes to Spider-Man than JMS, who knows? But does not make him the better writer. The fact you said JMS is less knowledgeable only makes me more impressed with him because he still understands the characters better than Slott ever will. It doesn't matter if Slott's the bigger Spider-Man nerd, though it would explain why his stories read like bad fan fiction :P

If Peter makes all these fantastic suits, that are clearly superior to the original suit why not wear them full time? Other wise they're just dumb gimmicks to draw in readers.

The name thing is huge, Stan Lee made a mistake because of his bad memory, JMS generally thought that May had no madin name that is extremely ignorant considering JMS is writing about the character it also shows that Jms knew nothing about the lore of spider-man before he came onto the book, and it shows that he was to lazy to google this infomation. Jms does not understand the character of spider-man better then Slott this is evident by the horrible edits he made to the character and the spiderman mythos like sins past and the other.The start of slotts run read's better then the end of JMS's run

The new suits are designed for a single purpose and were not meant to be worn for general wear, however the stealth suit is used by other characters in the marvel universe after peter. if you read the book you would know this because of the one hundred times it is said.