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Does Batman Always Win? Kraven vs. Batman

Sergei Kravinoff has hunted and defeated Peter Parker before... but does he have what it takes to bring down Batman, too? Find out what we think!

It's once again time to see how Batman would fare in a totally random encounter against a character he has no knowledge of. Everyone knows Batman's a beast with prep and when it comes to characters in his universe, he does indeed have a plan on how to handle almost everyone. But, I thought it would be way more fun to test his abilities against a slew of street level characters he knows nothing about because they're not from his world. This way we have to speculate how he'd react and whether or not he has what it takes to logically earn a majority of wins over his opponent. The Dark Knight is doing pretty well thus far in the monthly segment and has a record of 4 wins, 2 losses and only 1 draw (links to each are at the bottom). Now it's time to place him against one of Spider-Man's dangerous villains: Kraven the Hunter.

Kraven's throne has skulls, but Batman has better posture. It's truly anyone's game, people.
Kraven's throne has skulls, but Batman has better posture. It's truly anyone's game, people.

To make sure the segment is neutral, the matches will always be a random encounter (this means neither has knowledge on the other or prep time) and in a generic, unpopulated city setting at night (NOT Gotham). All of the standard city lights and lights inside buildings will remain on. They'll start roughly 50 feet apart, have their standard gear and they will be in character. Naturally, they have the objective to defeat the other character. Just like over in the Battles Forums, the winner will be declared based on who I think takes the most victories in this scenario if it played out 10 times. Additionally, it's worth noting that this segment is treating all pre-New 52 Batman feats as canon (New Earth, of course).'

Does Kraven have what it takes to drop the Caped Crusader... or will he fail this hunt?

Fighting Skill

I feel like a broken record when it comes to this factor. Not many characters out there are more skilled than Batman, and Sergei Kravinoff isn't one of them. We all know the basics when it comes to Bruce's skill: master of a gazillion styles (127, but who's counting?) and he's sporting great form. He's had what it takes to drop Lady Shiva and even gave Deathstroke a tough time. While Kraven isn't Bruce's equal in technique, I'm here to tell you why he's no slouch, either. In fact, I'd say Kraven's a very talented hand-to-hand fighter (ranked 6 out of 7 in fighting skill in the official handbook). Sergei has spent decades training himself (he has slowed aging thanks to his potions) and globetrotting to take down every creature possible (yes, this includes animals in the Savage Land). He has extensive knowledge of human (and various animals') anatomy and frequently uses pressure points to disable his enemies. We've seen him use these attacks against Spider-Man and Tigra and he's used far more brutal methods against Vladimir and a sasquatch (snapped their limbs). His use of nerve strikes has ranged from merely disabling an entire limb to temporarily paralyzing his target.

Kraven made Spider-Man think,
Kraven made Spider-Man think, "OHHHH!" 'Nuff said, yes?

Spider-Man was borderline bloodlusted in the conclusion of Grim Hunt and he humiliated Kraven's entire family, yet Sergei was still able to land a slash and dislocate Parker's shoulder before going down. As you should know, Spider-Man is absolutely vicious and amazingly formidable when he really lets loose. Additionally, he's defeated Vermin while unarmed, successfully taken blood samples from all of the original X-Men while in combat for Mr. Sinister, and slit Kaine's throat before getting blitzed. Sergei doesn't have the luxury of facing more than a handful of characters, but based on what I have seen and his consistent fights with Spider-Man, he's certainly not a character to take lightly. Kraven may not be as skilled as Batman, but he's still pretty darn talented in this regard. Throw in his superior stats and this could spell trouble for Batman, but clearly, Mr. Wayne has the edge in this one.

Edge: Batman

Equipment

BW goes full Shatner.
BW goes full Shatner.

Everyone and their mother should know what Batman is bringing to the table by now. Grappling lines, standard batarangs, sonic devices, small explosives, electric, gas, smoke, cryo and more. "But Gregg, how does he have all of this on him at all times? That's stupid!" Most of these devices are actually quite small and fit within the various pouches on his belt or are located somewhere on his costume. Besides, it's not in character for him to use all of them (cryo, for example), but he'd be a fool not to carry most of these things since he can't predict what kind of threat he'll encounter. And Batman? He's no fool. Let's not forget the man is technically a genius, yes? All of these different items don't weigh him down nor is it absurd to think he's packing a lot of variety while in his cowl. While standard batarangs won't do more than annoy Sergei, electric, gas and sonic attacks would prove effective if Batman has the chance to use them.

Variety is definitely on Batman's side, but Sergei has a simple yet highly effective variety of gear. Yes, he has his standard bladed weapons-- nothing too special there -- and his bolas and nets could give him a temporary opening, but it's his use of poisons and potions which could serve as a real game changer. We've seen the villain use them in quite a few different ways. Sometimes they're on his bladed weapons, they're on the tusks on his belt (which he can detach to use as melee weapons), he has a blow gun to fire poison-tipped darts, and he's even worn a gauntlet which fired dozens of little poisonous darts. In a vast majority of these showings, the poison/potions were able to drop his opponent in a few moments at most or severely impact their coordination (the key exception which comes to mind is his fight with Flash Thompson). This could be a huge factor, especially if Kraven momentarily snags Batman with a bola or a net. Then there's the infamous laser nipples on his vest (used at least 3 times and temporarily stuns his enemies), but yeah, I think we'll just go ahead and leave that weapon in the past.

Batman has a greater variety of high tech tools which can turn the tide, but Sergei's frequent use of poisons could prove to be equally troublesome as well since once slash is all it would take.

Edge: Draw

Imagine if Batman's costume was leopard print. You can't unsee it, can you?
Imagine if Batman's costume was leopard print. You can't unsee it, can you?

Mentality

Kraven may look like a silly man, but he's by no means a dumb man. He prides himself on his tactics as a hunter and has adapted in combat numerous times. Thinking he needs prep or has to be in a jungle to remain effective is a silly misconception. Upon being disarmed by Tigra, he immediately countered by using a nerve strike to turn the odds. And when he knows he can't take Spider-Man in a slugfest, he resorts to poisons and has no shame in doing so. I think he'd have the same mentality against Batman. It won't take long to see he's facing someone who's amazingly skilled, so I think it's fair to assume he'd try to use his poisons ASAP. Even if he was oblivious to Batman's skill, it's still a tactic he'd opt to use sooner rather than later.

Those shoes...
Those shoes...

Yes, Sergei is an intelligent man and great with tactics, but he's simply not Bruce's equal in this regard. Wayne's a genius and an expert tactician -- decades upon decades of comics have consistently proven this. Thanks to that and his superior form, there's the potential for him to direct the course of events or use the environment to his advantage as the fight progresses. The longer he's in the fight, the better his odds are.

While stealth is something both of these do characters use a fair amount, I actually don't view it as a huge factor here. The starting distance may seem like a fair gap to us, but to these characters it isn't much at all. Seeing as both appear to be standard humans when first spotted, I fail to see why either would opt to immediately run away into the shadows most of the time. Both are confident in their abilities as a combatant and both could close this gap in a matter of seconds if they wanted to, especially since Sergei can run in bursts of 60 mph. Both will use ranged weapons but it'll have no real impact. Sergei has danced around thrown weapons from T'Challa and Batman has a plethora of feats to justify dodging and/or blocking what Sergei could potentially throw his way during his head-on encounter. It won't be long before the two are within close proximity, but it is possible for Batman to use smoke pellets if things aren't going his way and resort to stealth. This could give him the advantage of the next strike, but he's also unaware of Kraven's expert tracking abilities. Regardless, I think this is a fight that will remain in close proximity most of the time due to the settings.

Both are wise and no nonsense fighters who can adapt to their environments (unless Kraven's facing Spider-Man, then he wastes opportunities like a true villain) but ultimately, there's just no disputing Wayne is simply a superior tactician.

Edge: Batman

Physicals

Bruce Wayne has pushed himself to peak human condition thanks to extensive and continuous training. But Sergei? We're talking about a dude who's superhuman after previously experimenting with herbal potions (which he no longer requires for these stats, by the way). His speed, strength and durability is absolutely above Bruce's.

When it comes to durability, Kraven is actually way more impressive than some may assume. Yes, he looks like an ordinary man, but it has been consistently established that he's incredibly durable. He can take numerous strikes from Spider-Man and, despite it sounding silly, Parker has once admitted he needed to use a strike which he'd use against the Hulk. Additionally, when Kraven abducted Harry Osborn back in THE AMAZING SPIDER-MAN #47, Harry punched Sergei in the face and said the villain didn't feel it and it was like "hitting an elephant's hide." Long story short, Batman's standard assortment of strikes won't cut it when it comes to eliminating Kravinoff and that's a big deal at first in a random encounter.

Kraven's agility? Solid. Kraven's trash talking? Weak.
Kraven's agility? Solid. Kraven's trash talking? Weak.

As for strength, Kraven's got the edge. He's made Spider-Man struggle in a grapple and a bear hug, punched through walls and constantly cites how he can drop a bull elephant in a single strike. According to his handbook entry, he can lift 2 tons. And when it comes to speed, Kraven can run in bursts of 60 miles per hour. Venom said he was, "faster than eyes track -- a blur of motion" and he's dodged lightning strikes from Storm and pistol shots from Deadpool. Furthermore, since his resurrection, Kraven has an accelerated healing factor which has allowed him to remain conscious after being stabbed int he heart (this happened twice). At any rate, I don't see this as being a huge factor since Batman using cutting/stabbing damage in a lethal measure is highly unlikely and there's no evidence to prove it has rendered him immune from electric or gas attacks.

Edge: Kraven

Verdict

I'm not the biggest fan of ABC logic, but please forgive me as I use it for a moment. While off venom, Bane has given Batman good fights -- a stalemate and even took the edge before losing once -- and it's clear he accomplishes this because of his edge in physicals. Yes, Bane is undeniably skilled and it pains me when people think he's merely a brawler, but he's not Batman's equal in that regard and it's his physicals which narrows the gap between the two. While it's definitely fair to say Kraven is slightly less skilled than Bane, he is, however, well above Bane when it comes to physicals (again, off venom). I'd say that large physical edge more than compensates for a slight technique disadvantage. By this logic, I believe Kraven should be more effective against Batman than an off-venom Bane because he's essentially in a similar skill range yet more physically impressive. And, if an off-venom Bane has what it takes to give Bruce great fights, I think this would grant Sergei better odds. Again, ABC logic should be used sparingly, but I do think there are numerous similarities between Kraven and Bane, so I thought it was a fitting example.

Batman does indeed have the skill, tactics and equipment required to eventually defeat Kraven -- there's really no denying that. But in a random encounter? I think it's more likely the Kraven's physicals in combination with his more than adequate degree of skill and use of poisons would allow him to overcome before Batman can use one of his more effective gadgets. The man has what it takes to keep pace, take hits and even land nerve strikes on Spider-Man, after all. It's definitely a great fight and has the potential to go either way, but in the end, I think Sergei's should take a slight majority (6/10).

Legitimate scan is legitimate. This is from... uh... Batman: Night of the Hunter...
Legitimate scan is legitimate. This is from... uh... Batman: Night of the Hunter...

We have a special guest chiming in for this one!

Erik Burnham, upcoming co-writer of SCARLET SPIDER

"Sure, he has that crazy lion-face vest that I'm surprised Lady Gaga hasn't co-opted, but Sergei Kravinoff can take a punch from Spider-Man. He can wrestle down gorillas. He can track by scent, and Batman doesn't have ESP on his side. I think Kraven's going to take Bats down a peg, and he's going to do it while wearing leopard print pants and laughing like Boris Badenov. That's gonna be embarrassing for the Dark Knight."

And what does a fellow Comic Vine staffer think about this battle?

Corey 'Undeadpool' Schroeder, Comic Vine Writer

"I originally went into this thinking Bats would take it easily, but the more I researched and reacquainted myself with the Hunter, the more I realized Kraven is, in many ways, Batman's polar opposite in that his power set very specifically counters many of Batman's usual tactics and he lacks any obvious weaknesses to be exploited. Batman would likely try to strike from the shadows, but Kraven would detect even the slightest noise thus Batman would immediately lose the element of surprise. Likewise, a man whose spent his entire life on the hunt for stronger and stronger prey would neither be alarmed by "the Bat Man" nor likely to be fooled into thinking he's any kind of supernatural force, so the fear element is gone as well. This leads to who can throw down more effectively on a base level and it's here that I think Kraven actually takes it. Batman's style tends to be very defensive and reactionary, which is absolutely not the way to take down Sergei as he has the advantage in strength and knowledge of anatomy, and at least equals Bats in agility and reflexes.

The utility belt might be versatile, but it's going to take more than pepper spray or a taser to stop Kraven, and even if Bats tries to get some distance to catch his breath or even attempt ranged combat, Kraven has shown himself plenty proficient with guns and enough traps and snares, even nets, to make sure the Bat doesn't get very far. Ultimately, it would come down to a pitched, knock-down, drag-out brawl, but Kraven would add the Batman's cowl to his many, many pelts."

There you have it, Viners. Erik, Corey and I think Kraven has the means to defeat Batman in a random encounter. But who do you think should win? Speak your mind below!

Want more Batman battles?

Feel free to suggest characters in the Official Discussion thread or via Twitter.

261 CommentsRefresh

Avatar image for waynewilsonslade
Posted By waynewilsonslade

@jaybefre said:

Surprised to see Batman lose this one. I thought he would take this at least 8 out of 10 times. Batman has fought animal/savage types (man-bat and killer croc) before and won. I don't see Kraven being able to keep up with Batman. Interesting match up though. I was beginning to miss these.

Avatar image for thecybr0g
Posted By TheCyBR0g

I personally would love to see Kraven hunt the Bat. Would say kraven wins 7/10 times then batman comes back with prep for a 10/10.

Avatar image for guru_crack
Posted By Guru_Crack

I personally would love to see Kraven hunt the Bat. Would say kraven wins 7/10 times then batman comes back with prep for a 10/10.

Avatar image for yourneighborhoodcomicgeek
Posted By YourNeighborhoodComicGeek

@k4tzm4n said:
@yourneighborhoodcomicgeek said:

k4tz still has debate game!

Yeah, it's been collecting dust for awhile now.

I know that feeling too man. Thinking of getting back to debating for a bit as well.

Avatar image for k4tzm4n
Edited By k4tzm4n
Moderator
Avatar image for yourneighborhoodcomicgeek
Posted By YourNeighborhoodComicGeek

k4tz still has debate game!

Avatar image for k4tzm4n
Edited By k4tzm4n

@alexander505: So basically you're saying "Yeah, Deathstroke was weakened -- something I left out but I'll have the audacity to call you a liar -- but you weren't 100% correct on the reasoning behind it, so ha!" Don't you see the point behind my response? You're basically saying "Batman gave Deathstroke hell, therefore, he should beat Kraven." Yet you're leaving out the fact Deathstroke wasn't even close to being at 100% efficiency and that's something the writer-artist was doing his best to express. You're also ignoring their history. We've seen other times how Slade at 100% vs. Batman goes down. If you think Batman should win, that's fine. But the example you gave wasn't a good one and it seems like you're purposely ignoring context just to stand by the opinion. If Batman attempts to beat Kraven just in a slugfest - like the fight you're talking about - it's not going to end well for him.

@_mongul said:

Wow, Greg. No offense, but this seems like a really poor descision. Which is odd, because I found all of your previous articles to be nearly perfect.

Let's focus on the major advantage you claim gives Kraven an edge against Batman; his physicals. I really, REALLY think you're overinflating them here. I'm going to guess you gave Kraven the win because you believe Bruce simply can't put him down.

This is treating Bruce like a moron. As you stated in your article, Bruce has the huge edge of H2H skill against Kraven, so naturally he'll get more hits in. When Bruce realizes, "Holy balls, I just punched a man with a cement wall for a stomach", do you really think he's not going to resort to other methods? Kraven's durability means nothing against gadgets that are pretty much standard for Bruce - Sonics, cryo, excessive knockout gas or even sticky grenades should all prove effective. Let's not forget Bruce's basic sonics incapacitated Superman for a short time.

I have no idea why you even thought Kraven was close in gadgetry. Darts are useless against Bruce. Any sort of gas is useless against Bruce, since a gas mask is common equipment for him, and easily applied. Kraven's self-administered potions are useless, too. What, is Bruce going to stand back and watch as Kraven ingests/injects some amped up potion for himself? Gimme a break. That all takes time, and Bruce can exploit that since his arsenal is pretty clearly more quickly deployed (Bruce nearly always activates/throws gadgets in a single panel with quick motion art).

Sorry, but I'm not really seeing any of it add up here. Bruce has fought and won against opponents of or above Kraven's caliber before.

Bruce wins 7/10.

No offense taken, I'm more than happy to see someone disagree by sticking to facts and not being immature about it (e.g. claiming there's bias, insults, etc). Seeing as you believe Kraven needs "self-administered potions," I believe you don't have a proper handle on the character. That's not meant to be rude, just a fact. He used to experiment with potions -- it's why he's over 60 and doesn't look like it -- but he doesn't need them and he hasn't needed them in a long time. The stuff in Kraven's Last Hunt was for his mind. He has consistent 2 ton strength, durability which allows him to withstand blows from Spider-Man, and speed/agility that allows him to keep up with Peter. He won't stop to drink a potion or something like that during the fight. Combine this with his own competent level of skill and I believe this won't bode well for Bruce in a random encounter. Batman is clearly the better fighter, but that doesn't mean Sergei is a sloppy fool who will be unable to connect or grapple or give Bruce one hell of a struggle up close. He has decades of experience in melee combat and he's proven against Spider-Man, Tigra, and others that he has an extended knowledge of unarmed combat methods. Equal their physicals and Bruce takes it. That, however, isn't the case. And I do believe you're overlooking the majority of wins I gave to Sergei. In a random encounter, I think Kraven's mentality, aggressive nature and combat methods, and physicals will allow him to get the better of Bruce a mere 6 out of 10 times. That means I think 4 times the fight will go to Bruce because he can survive the initial encounter and then use a weapon powerful enough to drop Sergei. It's a slight edge to Kraven. Seeing as you agreed with my other Batman battles, I think it's fair to say I don't view Batman as an idiot in a random encounter, but I don't believe one unsuccessful strike means he'll immediately resort to using gear he uses infrequently. I think it'll take a little longer before he reaches that point and he'll exhaust more common options first.

Sergei's gear may not be as advanced or even varied, but he has custom poisons -- poisons which can be delivered via a scratch, gauntlet darts or blow dart (the latter probably wouldn't connect thanks to Bruce's reflexes and skill, the former and second absolutely could if timed properly though) that take immediate affect -- a net that even Spider-Man couldn't escape, and a variety of weapons that'll benefit him both in close and ranged combat. Used properly, a number of these can absolutely serve as game changers. The very same applies to several of Bruce's options.

Moderator
Avatar image for granitesoldier
Posted By GraniteSoldier

Still agree with this outcome.

Avatar image for _mongul
Posted By _Mongul

Wow, Greg. No offense, but this seems like a really poor descision. Which is odd, because I found all of your previous articles to be nearly perfect.

Let's focus on the major advantage you claim gives Kraven an edge against Batman; his physicals. I really, REALLY think you're overinflating them here. I'm going to guess you gave Kraven the win because you believe Bruce simply can't put him down.

This is treating Bruce like a moron. As you stated in your article, Bruce has the huge edge of H2H skill against Kraven, so naturally he'll get more hits in. When Bruce realizes, "Holy balls, I just punched a man with a cement wall for a stomach", do you really think he's not going to resort to other methods? Kraven's durability means nothing against gadgets that are pretty much standard for Bruce - Sonics, cryo, excessive knockout gas or even sticky grenades should all prove effective. Let's not forget Bruce's basic sonics incapacitated Superman for a short time.

I have no idea why you even thought Kraven was close in gadgetry. Darts are useless against Bruce. Any sort of gas is useless against Bruce, since a gas mask is common equipment for him, and easily applied. Kraven's self-administered potions are useless, too. What, is Bruce going to stand back and watch as Kraven ingests/injects some amped up potion for himself? Gimme a break. That all takes time, and Bruce can exploit that since his arsenal is pretty clearly more quickly deployed (Bruce nearly always activates/throws gadgets in a single panel with quick motion art).

Sorry, but I'm not really seeing any of it add up here. Bruce has fought and won against opponents of or above Kraven's caliber before.

Bruce wins 7/10.

Avatar image for alexander505
Edited By Alexander505

because of how I-Ching altered him. "I'm slower. Weaker. It's taking me longer to process my thoughts."

Or you're lying or you don't know what you are talking about. Slade said:

"Fighting like an amateur. Is this a side effect of whatever I-Ching did to me?

No, it's this mask, Victor designed it with a dark tint on the right side. But I can still see out of it, and it's throwing me off.

4591992-3852824020-death.jpg

Avatar image for alexander505
Edited By Alexander505

Dude, he wasn't weaker, he defeated in few seconds Bronze Tiger. He said something about his eye, he felt discomfort to fight with two eyes, that's all.Nowhere is explained that his physical state was weaker, he had just an amnesia and a problem to fight with two eyes, as he said during the fight against Tiger. His strength, endurance, skills and intellect were the same as always.

Avatar image for k4tzm4n
Edited By k4tzm4n

@alexander505 said:

He has outfought, outsmarted and outmatched Deathstroke in a fight in Deathstroke #5 and now he's been defeated against Kraven? Really?

There's very important context you're completely disregarding. Deathstroke comments he's "fighting like an amateur" because of how I-Ching altered him. "I'm slower. Weaker. It's taking me longer to process my thoughts." He commented having two eyes was throwing him off as well. If you think Batman wins, that's fine. But him giving a weakened Slade a good fight -- one where Harley Quinn helps him, too -- isn't exactly the best example around.

Moderator
Avatar image for alexander505
Posted By Alexander505

He has outfought, outsmarted and outmatched Deathstroke in a fight in Deathstroke #5 and now he's been defeated against Kraven? Really?

Avatar image for regiebravo
Posted By regiebravo

Batman is taking this.

Avatar image for magnablue
Posted By magnablue

batman always wins no matter what

Avatar image for granitesoldier
Posted By GraniteSoldier

Still legit.

I miss when @k4tzm4n did these articles monthly, he always had great and respectable battle bfeakdowns, whether I agreed with the results or not.

Avatar image for engwengman
Posted By engwengman

Batman ahead in all categories but Kraven wins? Lol.

Avatar image for utkanflash
Posted By utkanflash

I hate that idea ; " Batman with prep could beat godlikes but Batman w/o prep beated by any street level char"

Batman has great enemies and rogue Gallery.. He is cleary managed random encounters very well in his comics history.. He is not just a nerd who is always make plans.. He is also great warrior

C'mon !

He dont need prep for Kraven.. His prep card needed to be JLA Villains, Big Names (Like Darkseid, Like Supe etc etc)

Avatar image for lowryder
Edited By lowryder

I do not really agree with the outcome. Batman has the edge in everything but physical prowess here and he is definitely the better equipped one (as I really doubt he wouldn't have proper means of countering toxins and poisons) and the more skilled one. Unless Kraven decides "hunts him" a là Spiderman or tries to take him out by surprise, it's no doubt a solid 7/10 in favor of Bats in a random encounter.

Avatar image for icec0ld
Posted By icec0ld

@end_boss: Your not sure how they arrived at the decision? Did you read the set up and explanation? Everyone was very clear and detailed as to why Kraven would win, especially the third explanation being that Kravens powers counter everyone of Bruces skills.

Avatar image for emanblackgreatness13
Posted By emanblackgreatness13

if u were to pit snake eyes and batman together without armor,snake eyes stomps.with armor it would be a better fight.but snake eyes still wins.and i have lists of reasons too.

Avatar image for christianrapper
Posted By christianrapper

It's the whole "no prep" and no knowledge thing that swings this into a bad place for the Dark Knight. I have to agree Kraven walks away with it under these rules.

However Superhero law is still in effect. Batman might go down, but not out. The inevitable rematch where he has time to prep goes to Bats hands down.

yep, because if they had a rematch then only batman would prepare. please, batman would get stumped harder because kraven would be more prepared.

Avatar image for erick_williams
Posted By Erick_Williams

@end_boss said:

Yeah, I really don't think Kraven could take this one. No disrespect to the guy that took down Spider-Man, but I just don't see it happening.

Yeah, he's a great hunter, but so is Batman in his own way (world's greatest detective after all, and what is a detective if not a hunter?).

Yes, Kraven is a real tough guy, but so is Batman (peak physical conditioning, trained with the greatest martial artists in the world, only sentient being to ever dodge the Omega Beams).

Kraven may be able to take a punch from Spider-Man, but Bats has endured getting clocked by

Superman

on multiple occasions. Sure, Superman was usually holding back or was slightly de-powered, but he's still

Superman

. If your argument is that Spidey's super strength is anywhere near the ballpark of Kal-El's, well... I don't know what to tell you.

And as far as tech and gear go, Batman has Kraven hopelessly outclassed.

Hopelessly

.

Not sure how you arrived at the decision you did.

Avatar image for supersaiyanplatypus
Edited By SuperSaiyanPlatypus
Avatar image for queencorp15
Edited By QueenCorp15
Dark Phoenix Saga by Olivier Coipel

THERES ONLY ONE PERSON WHO CAN KILLL BATMAN AN ITS NOT CUZ THERE SMARTER THAN HIM ITS BCUZ THIS PERSON IS THE STRONGEST HERO AGAINST ANY OTHER AN THAT IS THE ONE AND ONLY PHEONIX!!!!!

Avatar image for k4tzm4n
Posted By k4tzm4n
Moderator
Avatar image for dbogan67theman
Posted By Dbogan67theman

This is why Batman will lose. This is the Hunter who came back from the dead with higher healing factor and superhuman abilities. He gone up against Spiderman, the Hulk and many others who are very very stronger than him. Batman got the skills (it's pure b.s with the 127 martial arts forms) and the gear...but this is the Hunter who loves to hunt. Worshipped as a damn blanket. While everyone giving that Batfreak a edge, Kraven learns and adapt. Very fast and dangerous. Kraven will that Batmoron's heart and cooked and wear his skin as loin. lol. Kraven and over with.

Avatar image for jakester217
Edited By jakester217

Get ready for a battle of epic proportions! DC vs. Marvel, the tournament to see! Watch as your favorite heroes (and some villians) fight it out and climb their way to the top. Who will win, gaining the title as the most powerful being in both universes, and which universe will walk away a loser? Come right here to my blog, and vote for the champion! Today: Round 1, Part 1

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Posted By 14NC3
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Edited By k4tzm4n

@alexander505 said:

So, Batman can win against Deadpool, but loses against Kraven? This doesn't make any senses.

What doesn't make sense is thinking "If Batman beats X, why can't he beat Y?" Each character brings an entirely different scenario the table for him. Thinking X beats Y is irrelevant because each character has totally different pros and cons which will hold different weight against different combatants. For example, Kraven's durability is irrelevant against Deadpool because it won't protect him from Wade's swords (however, his healing factor would), but against Batman, it plays a critical role in a random encounter.

As I already said in the comments:

One character has become far too prone to goofing around and prolonging fights -- a massive mistake against someone with so much gear, a smarter mind and more skill. The other has a far more focused mindset can essentially shift the tide with one poisonous stab. For the love of Moses, don't use ABC logic when it comes to Batman's W/L record because it's a hugely flawed approach. This doesn't mean Kraven beats Deadpool by any measure. That's a whole different conversation.

Moderator
Avatar image for alexander505
Posted By Alexander505

So, Batman can win against Deadpool, but loses against Kraven? This doesn't make any senses.

Avatar image for k4tzm4n
Posted By k4tzm4n

@k4tzm4n said:Whoa, someone noticed I tried to make the captions entertaining? :D

:D

It's good stuff like that, that makes you a favorite of mine.

Huzzah!

@k4tzm4n: Good article katz, and do ignore the monkeys

Thank you.

Am I the only one that after reading, Gregg's reasons giving Kraven the edge would really like to see a Bane vs. Kraven fight?

I think his boost in strength and speed would make it very interesting. But for now, I'm really curious to see how Talon vs. Bane goes down.

Moderator
Avatar image for telcalipoca
Posted By Telcalipoca

im a big batman fanboy but

batman as good as he is against foes who are equal in fighting skill to him or close to his level if they are superhuman beat him.

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Posted By Scarbearer

Am I the only one that after reading, Gregg's reasons giving Kraven the edge would really like to see a Bane vs. Kraven fight?

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Edited By Strongarm

@k4tzm4n: Good article katz, and do ignore the monkeys

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Posted By Strongarm

laser nipples > rubber nipples

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Posted By snarkybits

@k4tzm4n said:Whoa, someone noticed I tried to make the captions entertaining? :D

:D

It's good stuff like that, that makes you a favorite of mine.

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Posted By mavfan626

@mavfan626: Deadpool got outclassed by Daredevil, dude. Like very recently. This is another showing that reflects the fact that it's not always about the raw power.

Daredevil has also tied up Spiderman, it doesn't mean anything... Spiderman would still beat Daredevil 9/10 times...

If someone argued Batman can tie up Deadpool I would agree, Batman can stop Deadpool by that.. but that doesn't mean anything if every other instants Deadpool wins the majority...

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Posted By WaveMotionCannon

@tdk_1997: so you're actually saying Batman has better reflexes than Spider Man? Really? Also Kraven has nerve strikes that put down elephants and rhinos and have affected Spider Man who's 10x faster, stronger and more durable than Batman wont be hurt? If he's in close he can be one shotted by Kraven. By all means continue to ignore the facts.

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Edited By Azura_Thena

@tdk_1997 said:

@azura_thena said:

Kraven's darts successfully tag Spider-Man, a character who is not only markedly faster than Batman, but also has an instinctual precognition ability that moves him out of the way of danger. It is hard to believe that a peak human will dodge the darts when a character with super speed and an autonomic danger sense/reflex can't.

Keeping it close would put Batman at a significant disadvantage because while he is a better fighter, he lacks the physicals needed to actually hurt Kraven enough to matter.

I think Batman is pretty capable of dodging darts.He has dodged stuff like that a lot of times and didn't have any problem doing that.Spider-Man is fast but he hasn't been so much exposed to stuff like that and is not as experienced as Batman.While Batman has gone up against a lot of thugs and villains almost always and has had to dodge sharp things flying at him.

Keeping it close will actually help him a lot.He can keep Kraven busy like that and it's not like nerve strikes don't actually work on Kraven.He can hurt him like that and later if he wants to put him down faster he will use some of his gadgets.

Spider-Man is also capable. More so, in fact than Batman is as I have already described above. This never stops Kraven.

I am not sure what you are trying to say about Spider-Man not being exposed to Kraven's poisons. He certainly has been more exposed to it than Batman has. If you mean Batman has more experience having darts shot at him, I would like to see your research please, as you are making a claim of fact rather than of opinion.

Spider-Man is well acquainted with dodging and avoiding danger. This has been far and away, his most notable skill in his bag of tricks; his super human speed and his spider sense. It is used in nearly every issue Spider-Man appears in.

How is he going to keep Kraven busy other than being a punching bag? He isn't as fast as Kraven and his strikes are not enough to really hurt Kraven. Nerve strikes could work on Kraven but they also work on Batman... So do busted bones, which Kraven would easily be able to deliver to Batman due to superior speed and strength. Then there is the poison tusks to consider as the darts are not the only weaponry Batman has to worry about. The same goes for the 'nipple lasers', which Batman also has no answer for.

How many times has Batman opened with nerve strikes on a character he is not familiar with that has no outward signs of super human durability?

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Edited By k4tzm4n

@hushofthewind said:

im still trying to understand how Bats can tie with Cap and lose to Kraven when its pretty damn unanimous that Cap beats Kraven, where the consistency?

Because Batman vs. Captain America is entirely different than Kraven vs. Batman or Captain America vs. Kraven. Each character brings different advantages and disadvantages to the table. Just because I believe Kraven beats Batman doesn't at all mean I believe he beats Captain America as well.

In fact, I believe the opposite. For one, the gap between their physicals aren't as big and Kraven's durability isn't as big of a wildcard because Captain America's primary method of offense would indeed hurt him (his shield). Batman is unaware that his fists and feet won't suffice at first and I believe that's an immediate disadvantage which could be critical, especially if it allows Kraven to nick him with a poison tusk. Batman never underestimates his foes, but immediately resorting to his more dangerous technology against a human looking opponent he's never faced before isn't exactly in character.

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Posted By Decoy Elite

im still trying to understand how Bats can tie with Cap and lose to Kraven when its pretty damn unanimous that Cap beats Kraven, where the consistency?

Because ABC logic doesn't really apply here. I mean Cap and Bats are two different characters who fight differently with different equipment.

Although I'd like to hear about where it was decided Cap beats Kraven because I've never really thought much about how that fight would go down myself.

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Posted By HushoftheWind

im still trying to understand how Bats can tie with Cap and lose to Kraven when its pretty damn unanimous that Cap beats Kraven, where the consistency?

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Posted By TDK_1997

@tdk_1997 said:

@azura_thena said:

@tdk_1997 said:

I disagree with the outcome.While Kraven has gone against Spider-Man and has some great chance of giving Batman a great battle I can't see him take the win.Batman has been seen a lot of times in battles he can't win and he has done otherwise.He does the unthinkable and this won't be any different.In my opinion Batman would win.

If I could ask, how would Batman win? I mean specifically how? Not this vague, "Batman always wins because Batman always wins" nonsense. How would he do it using all the logically possible options available to him in this setting?

Batman would go against an opponent who relies pretty much on nerve strikes and a lot of poison darts that weaken your mind and body and that are things that will be hard for him to handle but I can see him dodging them actually all of the time.He'll keep it close and that is where he will take the majority.In H2H Batman is the better fighter and he can outmatch Kraven at his game.That is my point of view.

Kraven's darts successfully tag Spider-Man, a character who is not only markedly faster than Batman, but also has an instinctual precognition ability that moves him out of the way of danger. It is hard to believe that a peak human will dodge the darts when a character with super speed and an autonomic danger sense/reflex can't.

Keeping it close would put Batman at a significant disadvantage because while he is a better fighter, he lacks the physicals needed to actually hurt Kraven enough to matter.

I think Batman is pretty capable of dodging darts.He has dodged stuff like that a lot of times and didn't have any problem doing that.Spider-Man is fast but he hasn't been so much exposed to stuff like that and is not as experienced as Batman.While Batman has gone up against a lot of thugs and villains almost always and has had to dodge sharp things flying at him.

Keeping it close will actually help him a lot.He can keep Kraven busy like that and it's not like nerve strikes don't actually work on Kraven.He can hurt him like that and later if he wants to put him down faster he will use some of his gadgets.

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Posted By Azura_Thena

@tdk_1997 said:

@azura_thena said:

@tdk_1997 said:

I disagree with the outcome.While Kraven has gone against Spider-Man and has some great chance of giving Batman a great battle I can't see him take the win.Batman has been seen a lot of times in battles he can't win and he has done otherwise.He does the unthinkable and this won't be any different.In my opinion Batman would win.

If I could ask, how would Batman win? I mean specifically how? Not this vague, "Batman always wins because Batman always wins" nonsense. How would he do it using all the logically possible options available to him in this setting?

Batman would go against an opponent who relies pretty much on nerve strikes and a lot of poison darts that weaken your mind and body and that are things that will be hard for him to handle but I can see him dodging them actually all of the time.He'll keep it close and that is where he will take the majority.In H2H Batman is the better fighter and he can outmatch Kraven at his game.That is my point of view.

Kraven's darts successfully tag Spider-Man, a character who is not only markedly faster than Batman, but also has an instinctual precognition ability that moves him out of the way of danger. It is hard to believe that a peak human will dodge the darts when a character with super speed and an autonomic danger sense/reflex can't.

Keeping it close would put Batman at a significant disadvantage because while he is a better fighter, he lacks the physicals needed to actually hurt Kraven enough to matter.

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Posted By TDK_1997

@tdk_1997 said:

I disagree with the outcome.While Kraven has gone against Spider-Man and has some great chance of giving Batman a great battle I can't see him take the win.Batman has been seen a lot of times in battles he can't win and he has done otherwise.He does the unthinkable and this won't be any different.In my opinion Batman would win.

If I could ask, how would Batman win? I mean specifically how? Not this vague, "Batman always wins because Batman always wins" nonsense. How would he do it using all the logically possible options available to him in this setting?

Batman would go against an opponent who relies pretty much on nerve strikes and a lot of poison darts that weaken your mind and body and that are things that will be hard for him to handle but I can see him dodging them actually all of the time.He'll keep it close and that is where he will take the majority.In H2H Batman is the better fighter and he can outmatch Kraven at his game.That is my point of view.

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Edited By Webhead_99

@wolverine08: Class 10-15 I think, but yeah. Heck, a 1 ton punch is enough to completely wreck a regular human skull. I don't see Spidey going for that kind of hit though (unless Octopus is in his mind).

@granitesoldier: One could even argue that a hero who loses awfully yet gets up to fight again has a much more impressive and poignant impact on readers than a guy who just never loses.

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Edited By k4tzm4n

@ace20xd6 said:

While it's definitely fair to say Kraven is slightly less skilled than Bane, he is, however, well above Bane when it comes to physicals (again, off venom).

Maybe it's because I know Kraven mostly from the Spiderman cartoon but Bane seems physically bigger without the venom than Kraven, especially when Bane was in Secret Six. Does this Batman still have his ice bombs though? If so then I see Kraven having a hard time defeating him.

Yes, Bane is definitely bigger than Kraven but off venom, he isn't stronger. I guess a similar comparison could be Bane and Spider-Man. Bane is clearly bigger than him but significantly weaker as well. Anyway, yeah, Kraven has 2 ton strength and off venom Bane does not. He's quite strong still -- stronger than Batman -- but I don't believe he'd be on par with Kraven without his venom in that regard.

Yes, Batman has that on him but he isn't exactly prone to using it on a regular basis.

@snarkybits said:

I was gonna come up in here with a nice long response about how Kraven could take down Batman, then I completely forgot it when I got to: "Kraven's throne has skulls, but Batman has better posture. It's truly anyone's game, people."

Whoa, someone noticed I tried to make the captions entertaining? :D

@granitesoldier said:

Man I can't believe this has gone on as long as this has. It's been entertaining to read. My favorite arguments are always "if they met in a comic Bats would win" (perhaps that's because he's a hero and the king of PiS wins?) or "Bats is so smart he'd figure something out". Two arguments that don't hold any weight because there is nothing backing them up. Oh if you don't believe Batman is the king of PiS, look at the scan where he's on venom and makes Superman bleed. Enough said about that I think. But I digress, why do people react like Batman losing one makes him a worse hero? Like not being able to always put one in the win column makes him crappy? I'll never understand that.

It's something I've been wondering since I started posting in battles 4 years ago. Gambit and TMNT losing to Batman in this segment doesn't make me like them any less nor should it.

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Posted By k4tzm4n

@reignmaker: Nice post! Naturally, I disagree with a few specific parts (most notably Kraven's durability and Batman's protection from piercing attacks), but I appreciate you taking the time to flesh out your thoughts.

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